Re: [Fish-users] sudo vs fish - have to re-enter password
I've done some testing, the problem was introduced with sudo revision f9aec9ab9054, but the changes from revision 8649bf22b3b2 are needed to get sudo to build. Sources from www.sudo.ws. This is the description of the changeset: Store info from stat(2)ing the tty in the tty ticket when tty tickets are in use. If the tty lives on a devpts (Linux) or devices (Solaris) filesystem, stash the ctime in the tty ticket file, as it is not updated when the tty is written to. This helps us determine when a tty has been reused without the user authenticating again with sudo. Anyone who knows about devpts/tty's etc interested in also having a look? Jan On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 00:42, Jan Kanis jan.c...@jankanis.nl wrote: After upgrading to ubuntu 11.04, (with sudo 1.7.4) I now have this same problem. Disabling tty_tickets solves it, but that is only a workaround since that is a security feature that is disabled. On another ubuntu 10.04 install with sudo 1.7.2 this problem does not exist. On 11.04 with bash it's not a problem. Conclusion: there is a bug in the way fish and sudo interact. Anyone has any idea how this could happen? Jan On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 06:11, Terrence Cole list-s...@trainedmonkeystudios.org wrote: On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 14:52 +0100, Korek wrote: tty_tickets were causing the problem! Turned them off. Dunno what tty_tickets are exactly for, but it works fine now. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=598567 I had also been having that problem (on Gentoo) for a couple months now. Thank you for figuring it out and posting the link! -Terrence Thx On 03/08/2011 02:41 PM, Korek wrote: Ok, a little more light into this: It does work both on LMDE and Debian Sqeeze (fresh install) in console. It does not work under gnome. (both systems) ..now, It seems to be a serious problem. test@debian:~$ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian:~$ sudo ls Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian:~$ fish Welcome to fish, the friendly interactive shell Type help for instructions on how to use fish test@debian ~ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian ~ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian ~ On 03/08/2011 12:55 PM, Korek wrote: I'm using Linux Mint DE (based on Debian) ... tried to boot from LiveDVD - it's the same. Tried to install Debian Squeeze in Virtualbox - it works. So there's something wrong with Mint. I've posted the question into Mint forums. Just for the record: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141t=67878start=0 Z On 03/07/2011 11:31 PM, Jan Kanis wrote: Check that fish and bash are both actually calling the sudo command directly, i.e. that there are not any functions/aliases for sudo. If both are calling the command directly, my guess is that it must be something with environment variables. See if there are any exported ones in bash/fish that look relevant, else try duplicating the entire environment that one shell uses to the other when calling sudo. AFAIK these are the only real ways in which the specific shell could influence how a command executes. Jan On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 21:38, Korek korek...@seznam.cz wrote: z - that's my username echo $USER z Thanks On 03/07/2011 06:45 PM, Stestagg wrote: what is the value of the $USER environment variable in your fish shell? Thanks Steve (ps. sorry for the initial reply, pressed wrong button) On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM, David Frasconed...@frascone.com wrote: Same here -- works for me. And, iirc, it has always worked correctly for me. :) Try the current version(s). -Dave On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Myrddin Emrysmyrd...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that this has not been my experience. I am not using the latest fish however; I'm using the default version in the Ubunto repository. I have had no problems using sudo; it properly remembers and uses my password timeout. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 09:58, Korekkorek...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, I have a problem with sudo vs fish when I use sudo, it asks me to enter password
Re: [Fish-users] sudo vs fish - have to re-enter password
After upgrading to ubuntu 11.04, (with sudo 1.7.4) I now have this same problem. Disabling tty_tickets solves it, but that is only a workaround since that is a security feature that is disabled. On another ubuntu 10.04 install with sudo 1.7.2 this problem does not exist. On 11.04 with bash it's not a problem. Conclusion: there is a bug in the way fish and sudo interact. Anyone has any idea how this could happen? Jan On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 06:11, Terrence Cole list-s...@trainedmonkeystudios.org wrote: On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 14:52 +0100, Korek wrote: tty_tickets were causing the problem! Turned them off. Dunno what tty_tickets are exactly for, but it works fine now. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=598567 I had also been having that problem (on Gentoo) for a couple months now. Thank you for figuring it out and posting the link! -Terrence Thx On 03/08/2011 02:41 PM, Korek wrote: Ok, a little more light into this: It does work both on LMDE and Debian Sqeeze (fresh install) in console. It does not work under gnome. (both systems) ..now, It seems to be a serious problem. test@debian:~$ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian:~$ sudo ls Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian:~$ fish Welcome to fish, the friendly interactive shell Type help for instructions on how to use fish test@debian ~ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian ~ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian ~ On 03/08/2011 12:55 PM, Korek wrote: I'm using Linux Mint DE (based on Debian) ... tried to boot from LiveDVD - it's the same. Tried to install Debian Squeeze in Virtualbox - it works. So there's something wrong with Mint. I've posted the question into Mint forums. Just for the record: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141t=67878start=0 Z On 03/07/2011 11:31 PM, Jan Kanis wrote: Check that fish and bash are both actually calling the sudo command directly, i.e. that there are not any functions/aliases for sudo. If both are calling the command directly, my guess is that it must be something with environment variables. See if there are any exported ones in bash/fish that look relevant, else try duplicating the entire environment that one shell uses to the other when calling sudo. AFAIK these are the only real ways in which the specific shell could influence how a command executes. Jan On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 21:38, Korek korek...@seznam.cz wrote: z - that's my username echo $USER z Thanks On 03/07/2011 06:45 PM, Stestagg wrote: what is the value of the $USER environment variable in your fish shell? Thanks Steve (ps. sorry for the initial reply, pressed wrong button) On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM, David Frasconed...@frascone.com wrote: Same here -- works for me. And, iirc, it has always worked correctly for me. :) Try the current version(s). -Dave On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Myrddin Emrysmyrd...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that this has not been my experience. I am not using the latest fish however; I'm using the default version in the Ubunto repository. I have had no problems using sudo; it properly remembers and uses my password timeout. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 09:58, Korekkorek...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, I have a problem with sudo vs fish when I use sudo, it asks me to enter password repeatedly, even thou I have sudo timeout set to 15 minutes. sudo works correctly under bash look at the following example: z@pc /t/zTemp ls a/ b/ z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp bash z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls a b fish, version 1.23.1 Any clues? thx
Re: [Fish-users] sudo vs fish - have to re-enter password
I'm using Linux Mint DE (based on Debian) ... tried to boot from LiveDVD - it's the same. Tried to install Debian Squeeze in Virtualbox - it works. So there's something wrong with Mint. I've posted the question into Mint forums. Just for the record: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141t=67878start=0 Z On 03/07/2011 11:31 PM, Jan Kanis wrote: Check that fish and bash are both actually calling the sudo command directly, i.e. that there are not any functions/aliases for sudo. If both are calling the command directly, my guess is that it must be something with environment variables. See if there are any exported ones in bash/fish that look relevant, else try duplicating the entire environment that one shell uses to the other when calling sudo. AFAIK these are the only real ways in which the specific shell could influence how a command executes. Jan On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 21:38, Korek korek...@seznam.cz mailto:korek...@seznam.cz wrote: z - that's my username echo $USER z Thanks On 03/07/2011 06:45 PM, Stestagg wrote: what is the value of the $USER environment variable in your fish shell? Thanks Steve (ps. sorry for the initial reply, pressed wrong button) On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM, David Frasconed...@frascone.com mailto:d...@frascone.com wrote: Same here -- works for me. And, iirc, it has always worked correctly for me. :) Try the current version(s). -Dave On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Myrddin Emrysmyrd...@gmail.com mailto:myrd...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that this has not been my experience. I am not using the latest fish however; I'm using the default version in the Ubunto repository. I have had no problems using sudo; it properly remembers and uses my password timeout. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 09:58, Korekkorek...@seznam.cz mailto:korek...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, I have a problem with sudo vs fish when I use sudo, it asks me to enter password repeatedly, even thou I have sudo timeout set to 15 minutes. sudo works correctly under bash look at the following example: z@pc /t/zTemp ls a/ b/ z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp bash z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls a b fish, version 1.23.1 Any clues? thx -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users
Re: [Fish-users] sudo vs fish - have to re-enter password
Excellent work Korek. I personally have no idea what tty_tickets are either. It sounds like a different way to record timestamps. On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 07:52, Korek korek...@seznam.cz wrote: tty_tickets were causing the problem! Turned them off. Dunno what tty_tickets are exactly for, but it works fine now. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=598567 Thx On 03/08/2011 02:41 PM, Korek wrote: Ok, a little more light into this: It does work both on LMDE and Debian Sqeeze (fresh install) in console. It does not work under gnome. (both systems) ..now, It seems to be a serious problem. test@debian:~$ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian:~$ sudo ls Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian:~$ fish Welcome to fish, the friendly interactive shell Type help for instructions on how to use fish test@debian ~ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian ~ sudo ls [sudo] password for test: Dokumenty Hudba Obrázky Plocha Stažené Šablony Veřejné Videa test@debian ~ On 03/08/2011 12:55 PM, Korek wrote: I'm using Linux Mint DE (based on Debian) ... tried to boot from LiveDVD - it's the same. Tried to install Debian Squeeze in Virtualbox - it works. So there's something wrong with Mint. I've posted the question into Mint forums. Just for the record: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141t=67878start=0 Z On 03/07/2011 11:31 PM, Jan Kanis wrote: Check that fish and bash are both actually calling the sudo command directly, i.e. that there are not any functions/aliases for sudo. If both are calling the command directly, my guess is that it must be something with environment variables. See if there are any exported ones in bash/fish that look relevant, else try duplicating the entire environment that one shell uses to the other when calling sudo. AFAIK these are the only real ways in which the specific shell could influence how a command executes. Jan On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 21:38, Korek korek...@seznam.cz wrote: z - that's my username echo $USER z Thanks On 03/07/2011 06:45 PM, Stestagg wrote: what is the value of the $USER environment variable in your fish shell? Thanks Steve (ps. sorry for the initial reply, pressed wrong button) On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM, David Frasconed...@frascone.com wrote: Same here -- works for me. And, iirc, it has always worked correctly for me. :) Try the current version(s). -Dave On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Myrddin Emrysmyrd...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that this has not been my experience. I am not using the latest fish however; I'm using the default version in the Ubunto repository. I have had no problems using sudo; it properly remembers and uses my password timeout. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 09:58, Korekkorek...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, I have a problem with sudo vs fish when I use sudo, it asks me to enter password repeatedly, even thou I have sudo timeout set to 15 minutes. sudo works correctly under bash look at the following example: z@pc /t/zTemp ls a/ b/ z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp bash z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls a b fish, version 1.23.1 Any clues? thx -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Fish-users] sudo vs fish - have to re-enter password
Same here -- works for me. And, iirc, it has always worked correctly for me. :) Try the current version(s). -Dave On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Myrddin Emrys myrd...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that this has not been my experience. I am not using the latest fish however; I'm using the default version in the Ubunto repository. I have had no problems using sudo; it properly remembers and uses my password timeout. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 09:58, Korek korek...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, I have a problem with sudo vs fish when I use sudo, it asks me to enter password repeatedly, even thou I have sudo timeout set to 15 minutes. sudo works correctly under bash look at the following example: z@pc /t/zTemp ls a/ b/ z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp bash z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls a b fish, version 1.23.1 Any clues? thx -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users
Re: [Fish-users] sudo vs fish - have to re-enter password
what is the value of the $USER environment variable in your fish shell? Thanks Steve (ps. sorry for the initial reply, pressed wrong button) On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM, David Frascone d...@frascone.com wrote: Same here -- works for me. And, iirc, it has always worked correctly for me. :) Try the current version(s). -Dave On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Myrddin Emrys myrd...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that this has not been my experience. I am not using the latest fish however; I'm using the default version in the Ubunto repository. I have had no problems using sudo; it properly remembers and uses my password timeout. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 09:58, Korek korek...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, I have a problem with sudo vs fish when I use sudo, it asks me to enter password repeatedly, even thou I have sudo timeout set to 15 minutes. sudo works correctly under bash look at the following example: z@pc /t/zTemp ls a/ b/ z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp bash z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls a b fish, version 1.23.1 Any clues? thx -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users
Re: [Fish-users] sudo vs fish - have to re-enter password
Check that fish and bash are both actually calling the sudo command directly, i.e. that there are not any functions/aliases for sudo. If both are calling the command directly, my guess is that it must be something with environment variables. See if there are any exported ones in bash/fish that look relevant, else try duplicating the entire environment that one shell uses to the other when calling sudo. AFAIK these are the only real ways in which the specific shell could influence how a command executes. Jan On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 21:38, Korek korek...@seznam.cz wrote: z - that's my username echo $USER z Thanks On 03/07/2011 06:45 PM, Stestagg wrote: what is the value of the $USER environment variable in your fish shell? Thanks Steve (ps. sorry for the initial reply, pressed wrong button) On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM, David Frasconed...@frascone.com wrote: Same here -- works for me. And, iirc, it has always worked correctly for me. :) Try the current version(s). -Dave On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Myrddin Emrysmyrd...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that this has not been my experience. I am not using the latest fish however; I'm using the default version in the Ubunto repository. I have had no problems using sudo; it properly remembers and uses my password timeout. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 09:58, Korekkorek...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, I have a problem with sudo vs fish when I use sudo, it asks me to enter password repeatedly, even thou I have sudo timeout set to 15 minutes. sudo works correctly under bash look at the following example: z@pc /t/zTemp ls a/ b/ z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /t/zTemp bash z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls [sudo] password for z: a b z@pc /tmp/zTemp $ sudo ls a b fish, version 1.23.1 Any clues? thx -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d___ Fish-users mailing list Fish-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fish-users
