Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #125
This message is from: "briar hill farm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> re: pony horse Fjords have the heart and smooth moves of a horse, are often the size of a pony, sometimes the size of a horse (bigger then 14.2). In the NE Pony Owners and Breeders Assoc Show (NEPOBA), we have our own Fjord classes and show in the open driving and riding classes too. In most open classes whether you show in a pony or horse class is about what height the animal is, not type breed. Icelandics ar all pony height, fjords range both sizes, welsh cobs often are ponies, some morgans on each side of spectrum, most halflingers are pony size. Maybe this serves to further confuse, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. Susan Cook from Briar Hill Farm, Bakersfield, Vermont -- > From: fjordhorse-digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: fjordhorse-digest V98 #125 > Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 6:04 AM > > > fjordhorse-digestFriday, July 24 1998Volume 98 : Number 125 > > > > In this issue: > >re: pony descrimination >Regarding the Hives >pony or horse >Re: pony or horse > > -- > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:14:28 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: re: pony descrimination > > This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > After reading about other's nightmares with trainers who have no idea > how to approach a Fjord, I feel I must add my 2 cents worth. There > are trainers out there who have sense enough to stand back and observe > the horse first, listen to what he is telling them, and then react > appropriately. I was lucky enough to find one on my first try, > although I must admit I have known the man for several years and knew > him to be a quiet and self assured person. He had never trained a > Fjord before, dealing mostly with the paints and Quarter Horses > popular around here, but said he would give it a try and see how it > went - no great sweeping promises of success. After two weeks or so > of a lot of frustration, he said he had them figured out - they were > like mules. "oh boy" I thought!! Then he went on to say that only > meant they were very smart, very sensitive, and apt to "freeze" rather > than flee. Having trained a few mules (two of his own) he went on to > train them beautifully for Western riding. They neck rein, move off > the leg, do rollbacks, etc. The key is they are willing if you cue > them confidently, but will 'freeze up' if confused or pushed too hard. > They are only three, so we keep 'learning sessions' short (20 > minuntes, max) and then go on to 'fun stuff' like trail riding or > going down the road. > > Some trainers really are smart, and it isn't always the high priced > ones either. I know that from sad personal experience. So much for > "horse whisperers". > > Mary > > > > > == > Mary Thurman > Raintree Farms > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > _ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 98 12:39:14 PDT > From: "Betsy Bauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Regarding the Hives > > This message is from: "Betsy Bauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi Group, >I wanted to let all of you know, so if you see these hives on your > Fjords that my vet said it was Bug related. I guess Hakar is use to Chicago > bugs and these California Bugs are a pain so he got a shot to reduce > the bother and she said to keep the skin soft with Skin So Soft by Avon >I also asked about the larger clumps on his fore-legs where he has lost > hair and hide and she said it was from getting up from the hard ground... > FYI for you all. I trimed all the rasberries and branches that may had > poked him on the legs and she said it was the ground. next year we will > disk right before summer... >Well, we are off the Equestrian Camp for my daughter's first sleep away > experience... cross your fingers '-) > > Enjoy Blue Earth Everyone! Wish I could join you., > >Also, for those interested in visiting, I have moved my site to > www.fjordpony.com are there any carriage makers who would like to market > their carriages with me? Thanks, Dave McW for your harness info. I am > working on what you sent me. stay tuned. > > Happy Ridin' >Betsy Bauer >http://www.fjordpony.com > > -- > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:10:48 -0600 > From: "Alison Barr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: pony or horse > > This message is from: "Alison Barr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Each year I do an all breed pony show. This year, I overheard some > people talking about Fj, and whether he was a pony breed or not. Are > they a pony, or horse? if they are a horse, can I still enter him as > unregistered (someone mentioned that about arabs)? I know th
vacation to colorado
This message is from: "duane trupiano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello list. We're going to a family reunion in Estes Park, Colorado mid August. We'll be spending a few days in the Black Hills and then going to Co.(we live in Michigan) The men folk insist on a stop to Cabela's sporting goods store. My sister lives in Des Moines, Iowa and that will be a stop also. I'd love to know what we should see along the way, and what to avoid. We'll be camping in an old motorhome..our boys are 11 and 14... and we like outdoor things. We'd love to fish, but out of state day licenses probably cost a lot. I'd love to stop and meet everyone on the list as we go by, and meet your fjords but time is short. The last reunion was in Maryland and I insisted we visit Schmucker's Saddle Shop on the way homewhich wasn't exactly a direct route home...but fun for me! I worry about leaving the animals in someone else's care, but we do need to get away now and then. Thanks for your input in advance. Nancy
Re: Re: pony or horse
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Combined Driving a pony is an animal 14.2H or under, a horse anything above. In Pleasure Driving only Morgans and Arabs measuring at pony size (14.2 or under) can be shown in the horse or pony division, but cannot be shown in both divisions at the same show, and a Morgan or Arab measuring above pony has to be shown as a horse As far as I know those breeds are the only exceptions in these disciplines. It is my understanding that Gene Bauer petitioned the ADS or AHSA to have the same consideration extended to Fjords , but was unsuccesful. Perhaps Betsy could fill us in as to wether or not this is true. Vivian Creigh
Re: pony or horse
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-07-24 20:48:00 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I know some Fjord owners would never, ever admit they own "ponies", but this seems to be because ponies (and sometimes their owners) are all too often perceived as stupid, stubborn, no good, and worthless. >> These days I live in a separate state from one of my best friends. I told her how thrilled I was to be getting a fjord last year (now I've got two, with the third one to be born next weekhopefully next week ). Anyway, after I got Juniper, I pulled out my camera and started popping off pictures, from every angle I could think of. Proudly I sent copies of the pix to her via snail mail. Several days later, she called me up, and in a horrified voice said "you bought a PONY". I am very secure in my choices in life, and was able to say, casually "yep, sure did. best animal I've ever bought." She's only one inch shorter than my first horse was. And I'm ecstatic that I have fjords. Don't mind when people look at me funny either! Pamela
Re: pony or horse
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alison Barr wrote: >Are [Fjords] a pony, or horse? At the risk of inciting riot or flames, I have to say that certain traits of the Fjords are far more pony-like than horse-like, so I tend to think of and treat them as ponies. Some of the pony traits I see in Fjords: many are under 14.2 hh, the max height for ponies they have heavy, thick manes and tails they are easy keepers (ie: efficient metabolism) their body type is relatively stocky for their overall height I know some Fjord owners would never, ever admit they own "ponies", but this seems to be because ponies (and sometimes their owners) are all too often perceived as stupid, stubborn, no good, and worthless. I think mules are also discriminated against in this way -- but it's far more difficult to "pretend" a mule into a horse. So mule owners have to put up with the snide comments, while pony owners try to turn a fiction into reality. There are some real physiological differences between the pony breeds and the horse breeds, however, that simply cannot be glossed over or ignored. In particular, a pony has a more efficient metabolism and is physically smaller than a horse, so a pony can founder easier than a horse if it sneaks into the grain bin or into a lush spring pasture. I think (perhaps the vets can provide an expert opinion here) that ponies can also be more (or less) sensitive to certain medications than horses. I don't like to have my Fjords dismissed by the stuck-up "horsey" types, but on the other hand, I want to raise, enjoy, and train my Fjords properly -- and if that means dealing with them as ponies, then so be it. DeeAnna
Re: Horse/pony
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Dave McWethy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What is confusing is that in the world of showing and events, an > animal has to be either horse or pony. In driving, and many other performance type events, the difference is on a tape measure---below 14.2hh is a pony; above is a horse. That means that there can be Fjords, Connemaras, Haflingers, Morgans, Arabs, QH's, etc in either the horse or the pony class! > It has been my belief that Fjords are among what would be considered > "pony breeds". I have heard this disputed among Fjord people. Any > informed opinions out there? One of my "coffee table" horse breed books refers to Fjords as "the largest of the pony breeds". Mine are nearly horse-sized (one each at 14.1, 14.2, and 14.3hh), but I refer to them a ponies (usually "whuffled" when speaking to them, like "po-o-o-o-onie"). To me, talking about a pony sounds more "friendly" than a horse. Besides, I find that I have to feed them like ponies (or donkeys). IMHO, feeding Fjords like horses results in fat and founder. But, yes, they do have horse functionality. I sometimes describe them as "economy model draft horses". Oddly enough, my two larger Fjords have a "pony" temperament (calm, quiet, friendly, stop and figure things out). The smallest one is more "horse-like" (suspicious, spooky). > My farrier, who generally likes shoeing the Fjords, because they are > usually safe, also can't quite bring himself to decide he likes them, > I think because they are so different from what his notion of horse > is. I was fortunate to find a farrier who got his start shoeing draft horses. When I told him I had "draft ponies", he was intrigued. He seems to really like them---has occasionally talked about getting one (especially after his QH broke his leg), but hasn't gotten beyond the price tag. Ours are generally safe to shoe, although the old mare can get "heavy" when her arthritis is bugging her. The farrier's favorite was the small Fjord, who picks up his feet the nicest---until the day when it hailed. After having seen Rom go ballistic at the sound of hail on a metal roof, the farrier has been much more cautious around him! (The other two just quietly stepped into their stalls, to get away from the lumpy stuff falling on them in the corrals.) Over the years, I had repeatedly warned the farrier that Rom was "a squirrel", but he didn't believe me! I'm just glad that no one was under Rom with a hot shoe, or a sharp nail, when he exploded Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Blue Earth
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cynthia and I together with our grand-daughters and Tank will be heading out for Blue Earth Sunday morning. If anyone has any problems with the list they will just have to wait until we return at the end of the week. We have made up some badges for list members so folks can identify one another and meet in person. Be sure to stop by our stall and pick yours up. Looking forward to meeting many of you. -- Steve McIlree & Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA The air of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears. --Arabian proverb
Re: pony discrimination
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Allison Barr wrote: "... Instructors seem to look at them and think they must be short strided, dragging, and slow. I have found about the exact opposite" I have a fifty-something friend who's owned, trained, and showed Paints and Quarter Horses for years. She was watching our 3 Fjords thunder across the pasture and was amazed at how graceful and balanced these stocky little horses are. They love to race each other at top speed for awhile each day, unless it's really hot and humid -- they're a joy to watch. Even Finn, the yearling, is light and nimble, and his momma Sissel has a rocking chair trot that even my novice husband can ride bareback. Regarding the "stubbornness" issue, I agree that the Fjords tend to "slow down" rather than spook when they are unsure of what to do. Tuopen, our gelding, has this way of looking at me when I ask him to do something new as if to say, "You wanna do WHAT" If I'm gentle but persistent, he will eventually do whatever I'm asking him to do, especially if there's a little treat for reward. (Amazing how the IQ goes up when there's food involved!) If I'm too strong in my request, though, he'll become nervous and "stubborn", and eventually will show a strong flight response. I think the John Lyons method of breaking a task down into very small steps works really well with Fjords. I also think there's a dominance aspect to Fjord "stubbornness" as well. For instance, Sissel is friendly and mellow, but she really doesn't deep-down respect me -- she would rather shoulder me or anyone else, human or equine, out of the way in her endless search for edibles. I would like the chance to work with her in a round pen or other confined space away from the other horses (and food!) so there's nothing to focus on besides me. For some reason, I can get that focus from our other horses even when they're in the pasture or barn, but not from her. I don't, however, equate this "stubbornness" as a lack of intelligence -- quite the opposite, actually. DeeAnna
[no subject]
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Approved HjerteBarn_is_Tank From: Philip Petty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: pony or horse Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:46:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain To add something else to horse/pony debate. Here in the west I cannot sell a pony (they are considered 'bad'), horses sell well. I think we'd all do well to avoid the argument by calling them Fjords. Philip Petty Lochsa Fjords Mica, WA >-Original Message- >This message is from: "Alison Barr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Each year I do an all breed pony show. This year, I overheard some >people talking about Fj, and whether he was a pony breed or not. Are >they a pony, or horse? if they are a horse, can I still enter him as >unregistered (someone mentioned that about arabs)? I know that the >average size of Fjords is under 14-2, but Icelandics and, more >extremely, Faebellas are considered horse breeds? >Thanks > >P.S. Thanks for everything on feathers and forelock
Re: Horse/pony/farriers
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-07-24 08:28:41 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Second thought. My farrier, who generally likes shoeing the Fjords, because they are usually safe, also can't quite bring himself to decide he likes them, I think because they are so different from what his notion of horse is. >> I got lucky with my farrier. My fjords are the first he's ever seen. He's known to be a rather crusty character at my old training barn, but now that he's shoeing at my home, he's really very sweet. And though he's an old quarter horse person, he's enthralled with my fjords. Loves their feet, loves their attitudes. Has no preconceived notions. When I called one of the mares a grouch (she's the matron and a little fussier than Juniper) he rushed to her defense, calling her a great mare. Pamela
Horse/pony
This message is from: "Dave McWethy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What is confusing is that in the world of showing and events, an animal has to be either horse or pony. In the rest of the world, pony is a subset of horse, so every pony is also horse, but not every horse is a pony - remember that set-subset stuff? In cars, for instance, all Chevrolets are cars, but a Ford, though a car, can never be a Chevrolet. With a pony breed, you can call it either horse or pony. Pony breeds typically are healthier, heartier, need less feed, are stronger per pound body weight, and breed more easily. Sound familiar? It has been my belief that Fjords are among what would be considered "pony breeds". I have heard this disputed among Fjord people. Any informed opinions out there? Second thought. My farrier, who generally likes shoeing the Fjords, because they are usually safe, also can't quite bring himself to decide he likes them, I think because they are so different from what his notion of horse is. He was explaining to an apprentice yesterday that they are hard headed. That just doesn't sound right to me. I think he meant more along the lines of stubborn than stupid. I think part of what he sees is that the Fjord is confident around people, not easily intimidated, and I think he doesn't know how to deal with that. Farriers can be hard headed too, so maybe it's a projection. In any case, he does a great job of putting shoes on. We'll work on him.
Re: pony or horse
This message is from: saskia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Alison Barr wrote: >This message is from: "Alison Barr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Each year I do an all breed pony show. This year, I overheard some >people talking about Fj, and whether he was a pony breed or not. Are >they a pony, or horse? when you look at the name of the breed, it is strange. In English it is Fjordhorse, in Dutch we mostly say Fjordenpaard (= horse), but sometimes you also see Fjordenpony, and in French it is always: poney Fjord. I wonder what they say in other languages... So I think there's a worldwide confusion. I always call mine: ponyhorses, so I'm sure to say at least half of it right! :-) Saskia
