Harold Jacobsen
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Thanks to everyone for the expressions of sympathy regarding my grandfather Harold. As a tribute to my grandfather, I'd like to tell you a liitle about him and the Fjord Horses that he loved so much. Harold and my grandmother Dorothy had moved from New York to retire in Old Snowmass, Colorado. They chose Colorado mostly for the skiing, which they loved, having learned to ski at the ages of 48 and 50. One summer day in 1974 a neighbor asked if he could graze his two horses in my grandparents' unused pasture. What a surprise it was to Harold when the neighbor brought two purebred Norwegian Fjord mares, which Harold remembered seeing in Norway on trips to visit his relatives in his youth. Even though neither one knew the first thing about a horse, they quickly fell in love with the sweet horses, and were able to purchase one of the mares whose name was Kirsten. When Harold started researching these horses to learn more about them, he realized it was his luck that there were other Fjords in the area. These Fjords were 2nd and 3rd generation descendants of the two groups of horses that had been imported to the US in the 1950. Three mares and three stallions had been brought to be used to pull guests in the wagons at the Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs, and some of the offspring had stayed in the area. Harold quickly realized that not only could he and Dottie keep and enjoy Fjords, but there was also a market for selling the unique little horses. He also quickly realized, however, that there were less than 100 Fjords in the country, and they were spread far apart geographically, and that this was leading to inbreeding. So in 1977 he traveled to Norway with my older brother John to select a stallion. They picked Dragtind, a grandson of Valebu and son of Ola Gik who was a good but not widely known stallion. At three years old, Dragtind had been awarded 3rd prize which is the best a horse of that age can get. Dragtind was put to work back in Colorado breeding Kirsten and a few other mares Harold had acquired locally. Over the years, Dragtind gave us many good foals, one of which is the stallion Leif whom we are now breeding with. The next year, 1978, I got to go with my grandfather back to Norway to purchase 4 three-year-old mares - all prizewinners and all in foal to different well-known stallions. In 1980 we made two more importations, with one of those horses being the venerable Grabb. Grabb at that time had the distinction of having more prizewinning, registered offspring than any stallion for the previous 20 years. In all, Harold imported 19 excellent Fjords over the years. The contacts he made, Jon Hegdal, Tor Nestaas, and Arve Rolstad among them, also made the process of importing horses easier for the increasing number of NFHR members who wanted to try it. Harold was one of the three who founded the NFHR and was asked to be the first president. He declined, though, saying that position should go to one of the other founders, Sven Huseby, who was closer to the area of the country which, by that time, had the highest concentration of Fjords (the Northeast). Although I mentioned that Harold started out knowing virtually nothing about horses, he was a quick learner. We had a very good veterinarian, and Harold did whatever he said was necessary to take good care of the horses. Given the number of horses we have had and the number of years we have raised them, the small number of problems we have had with the horses speaks for itself. Some of that recognition needs to go to the Fjords themselves, for they are a very hardy breed. But much of it goes to a man that spared nothing when it came to anything the horses needed. In 1984 Harold was planning to retire from the Fjords when he sold an amazing 33 Fjords, our whole herd with the exception of Grabb, to a man in New Mexico. Harold would not sell Grabb, but did allow him to go along for the first summer for breeding purposes only. That was where the infamous fight between Dragtind and Grabb occurred, resulting in Grabb's death three days later. Harold could not stand being without Fjords though, and before long he was buying one here and one there, and shortly was back up to a healthy number again. The cold Colorado winters started to make it harder and harder for Harold to endure that time of year in the mountains. At the same time his medical doctors had reversed their position and now thought that a warmer, more humid climate would be better for Harold's chronic bronchitis (He also was allergic to horses if you can believe that!) So he and Dorothy packed up and moved themselves and the horses to Mooresboro, North Carolina, in the western part of the state. I was able to spend that summer, after my first year of Veterinary School, with them to help build fences and get the horses settled in. Harold continued to enjoy the horses there and was active in
stallion behavior
This message is from: Julia Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth to the stallion discussion. I was just in Norway this spring at the stallion show, and overall the horses were EXTREMELY well mannered, even with 39 in the ring at once. One 3 year old reared a couple of times but that was the worst we saw in hand. Many were handled by young women. In the performance, one beautiful 5 year old acted up in the ring under saddle, refused to canter and to go to one end of the ring, and his license to breed was taken away. In the 6 week program of schooling for stallions, he had been a problem on more than one occasion. We have two stallions, an 11 year old and a 3 year old. Both are very virile and show beautiful presence, but both are completely safe to be around, to go into the pasture with, to feed, groom, breed mares with. Yes, I use a stallion chain when going from pasture to barn, and I NEVER forget that it is a stallion on the end of the lead. And going down the aisle with horses on both sides, I want to have a firm grip on that lead. But neither horse would EVER offer to attack me, strike at me, kick, bite, etc. Several years ago we were raising a very promising young stallion prospect, a colt that had been handled since birth by experienced horsepeople. By age 14 months, I was afraid to go into the paddock with him, as he would bite (not nip) at me. One day he left black and blue marks on my upper arm and I called the vet. He is a wonderful gelding, owned by a 12 year old girl. We had a similar experience with a 3 year old that came to us as a stallion who had not been handled much. He charged me in the pasture with teeth baredanother gelding that is doing wonderfully. So I guess that pretty well spells out my opinion. Julie @ Old Hickory Farm
Re: Stallion Temperament
This message is from: Niki May [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just a note about the American Evaluations for those who do not know- all conformation tests are judged individually with only one horse in the ring at a time, so the stallion problem is not related to other horses in the arena with him. The stallions (or mares, geldings) are not brought together until the end of the class when judging is basically over just for another quick look and to award the placings. Niki May
stallion who is terror in hand
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) I'd like to give a pertinent example of stallion behavior that might either 'clear the water' or 'muddy the water' depending on whether you hold to the 'nature' or 'nurture' point of view regarding animal personalities and behavior. The stallion Grabb has been mentioned lately, and as you know, my grandfather Harold imported him to this country when he was 19 years old. Grabb was truly magnificent, but that's a subject for another letter. The thing I want to mention here is his temperment. For most of Grabb's adult life in Norway, he was kept in a stall and the only time he was let out was for breeding. Some of you are already shaking your heads because you know what this does to a stallion. When we first brought Grabb to Colorado he was a handful to say the least! When he came running toward you from the other end of the pasture, there wasn't a person alive who wouldn't clear the fence in record time! There were no teeth bared, no ears back, nothing like that - it's just that it didn't look like he was going to stop. He was quite nippy, but we were careful and he never bit anybody. Now he was by no means uncontrollable, so don't get me wrong. It sounds like the stallion at the Evaluation that people have been mentioning was close to uncontrollable. So Grabb was not like that, but to say that he was a handful is an understatement! Now here's the good part. After two years of being turned out in a pasture with access to a stall ( we only ever found him in the stall once) he was a different horse. No longer were you afraid to be in the same corral with him. No longer was he constantly 'wound up tight'. In fact, he turned out to be rather average for a Fjord stallion I think. You could do anything you wanted to him - trim mane and hooves, vaccinate, deworm, etc. He was still 100% pure Fjord testosterone when there was a mare in heat to be bred, but even then he would listen. So Grabb is an example of a stallion whose nature was actually gentle, but whose 'nurture' made him look like something different. Grabb's offspring, both male and female, have all been very nice horses as far as personality goes. In fact, Leik (pronounced like 'lake') the son of Grabb whom we bred with for a number of years, and who is now standing at Bill and Norma Coli's Blue Heron Farm, is the gentlest Fjord stallion I have ever seen. He is a big baby doll and you can do anything you want with him. We gave him a months training to ride at the age of ten years old and he took to it like he had been doing it all his life. Don't get me wrong, when a mare in heat is around he is all business. But at the same time he is very much a gentleman, very sensitive to the mare's cues about whether she is ready or not. Although I quote this example of Grabb, I do not use it to excuse an unruly stallion's behavior. There are very definately some stallions who are just that way, even if they have been reared in the best environment possible. Here's my main point. Just as has been seen with people, a stallion's personality is a combination of nature and nurture. Psychologists have debated for years whether people are a product of their genes or their environment, but the answer always eventually comes down to the fact that it is some combination of both. And it can not be stated that it is a certain percentage of both, say 50-50, because for example two siblings, raised the same, still respond differently in similar situations. This makes it hard then to decide how one would measure this and reward or penalize it at an Evaluation. The difficulty lies mainly in two areas. First, people's definitions of unruly or dangerous are all different; Some think a stallion should not even whicker at a mare when he's being shown or handled whereas others think that is just part of being a stallion. Also, some people would rather have a bit of a heads-up, fancy-looking Fjord, and some would rather have a Fjord that's just a big pussy cat. So how do you agree on what's acceptable behavior and what's not? Secondly, temperment is not a highly heritable trait. Whereas certain conformational traits, for example, have been shown to be highly heritable, and thus either desirable or not, it is not the same with temperment. Breed a high-energy, hard to handle stallion to a quiet, gentle mare, and you may get a quiet and gentle offspring. And the offspring of that offspring may all be just as quiet and gentle as you please. So where do you draw the line? I agree that a Fjord's temperment is definitely important. It is what makes Fjords unique and is the thing which initially draws most people to the breed. So we do need to preserve it as much as possible. But we must be careful as we consider how to make that part of the Evaluation process. As long as some notation or designation is made that would alert people, I tend to think that for the most part, mare owners
FJORD Horse Chat
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] As Lisa (Pedfjords) has mentioned Every Sunday night 9 to 10pm (eastern time) is FJORD HORSE CHAT located in Pets and Vets Might be a great chance to talk over some of these issues here's the link to the room for those interested. A HREF=http://volano1.suresite.com/petsvets/vcclient/horsechat.html HORSE ROOM 1/A http://volano1.suresite.com/petsvets/vcclient/horsechat.html Main screen http://www.petsandvets.com/index.html
Re: Culling Fjords/Gelding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-08-20 13:28:30 EDT, you write: She gets this funny look on her face, like maybe it's time for the big talk, but recovers gracefully and says It's when they cut off a certain part of the horse so he can't breed. The problem was I think she must have been mumbling because I heard ...so he can't BREATHE. This seemed unusually cruel to me so I replied, Why don't they just kill them? She gets a further look, kind of like what child is this who thinks death is better than life without sex, and explains Because they still want to ride them. This struck me as so funny, I'm sitting here, unable to stop laughing. Your poor mom. Hope someday you told her what you THOUGHT she had said! Pamela
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #147
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Everybody, This message is from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia. Ursula's comments about evaluating a stallion's temperament at the Evaluations, and her suggestion that we launch a discussion on the subject is important. This is a real good place to air ideas. A couple of things she mentioned particularly struck me. She felt that the bad acting stallion shouldn't have gotten a blue ribbon. I guess that depends what the blue ribbon signifies. If it signifies that he's a typey, well made animal that meets or exceeds the standards, then he should have the blue, and apparently that was the mandate the judges were judging under, so what else can they do. -- It certainly would be very hard (impossible, I'd say) to judge temperament in a ring situation. I mean, how many stallion owners can simulate that kind of situation where the stallion is presented in an enclosure with five, ten, or more other breeding stallions. Isn't it natural for a virile stallion to act up? The great ones I've seen in Norway and Holland very often do. I would think that if we want to judge temperament, we would require the stallion to perform in some capacity - jumping, dressage, driving, pulling, whatever he does. That situation is much easier for the owner to control as they can take their stallion to shows and at least get them used to being around, and performing with other horses, so the Evaluation ring wouldn't be all that strange, although the stallions would still have to contend with the other stallions. The point I'm trying to make is that it's unfair to judge a stallion's character on the basis of an in-hand stallion evaluation. Are we going to reward the quiet ones? Maybe the quieter the better? Is this a good idea? I don't think so. The quieter the stallion is could indicate his testosterone level. Think about it. I do speak from experience on this subject. Our stallion, Gjest, came to us as a ten year old experienced breeding stallion. He'd been a government stallion in Holland for many years. He was used to spending his time going from farm to farm breeding mares - 85 + mares per season. What do you think he was like when we took him to a show? Gjest descending from the trailer was a dramatic scene? It was awesome, and somewhat scary. Yet, that same super virile breeding stallion was soon hitched to his cart doing a cones course, or a dressage test, or a marathon. He was, and is at age 21, a phenomenal performance horse. --- He was, and is at age 21, still VERY IMPRESSIVE during breeding season. From late March until late June, Gjest remains a handfull when being led from his paddock to the barn. Yet, once in the barn and turned around for the cross-ties, he realizes the situation, and changes into his good old gelding role. You couldn't ask for a better horse. Gjest is ridden all summer by children. He goes on trailrides with mares. He's used in our Beginner Driving Program. He's a darn wonderful horse. And yet, people used to say that he was too hot blooded. They didn't want to breed to him for fear of getting a too lively foal. etc., etc. We heard it all much to our dismay. Today, Gjest's North American offspring are old enough to be proving themselves in performance. All of them are doing extremely well in dressage, fox hunting, driving, combined driving. They're all good workers just as Gjest has always been a good worker. Not one of Gjest's offspring has ever (as far as I know) been a behavioral problem. Back around 1985, we took Gjest to the Woodstock Fjord Show, and showed him in the stallion class. He was plain awful! Really badly behaved, although handled by a large girl with lots of experience. We didn't win any points that year with onlookers. It was probably a bad move to have taken him, from a promotional point of view. I'm sure we lost breedings because of the aforementioned fears of mare owners. That was too bad for us, and also for the people who lost out on getting a good foal. I don't know. This is such a very important subject. I guess what I'm trying to say is we shouldn't come down hard on a stallion for doing what is natural. If the stallion has such a bad temper he is untrainable, that's a whole different story. However, judging his temperament and charater by what he does in a ring full of other breeding stallions is foolish, and could result in damaging the breed. I think you'll get people with good stallions staying away from evaluations. --- Not good for the breed. --- I'll tell you what I'd hate to see is the rewarding of characterless Fjords. Those horses that are so quiet they have no character. Read the Norwegian standards. Read the Dutch standards. Read them in my book, THE FJORDHORSE HANDBOOK. The Europeans who know a lot more about the breed than we do, don't want wimpy Fjordhorses. It's a very difficult call for the judges.
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #147
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-08-20 15:28:54 EDT, you write: Don't we want Stallion Presence in the Fjordhorse? If we don't then we're sure a long way from the European standards.Requiring a specific performance test would go much further towards showing the true character of the stallion. What does everybody else think? Regards from Carol at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia First, let me say I loved your book. Will send you comments about what struck me most later. It was a good, basic book for beginners, and also was pretty informative to people such as myself, who have been around horses for many years, but are relatively new to the Fjord experience. Now, my opinion on Stallion Presence. Just an opinion, and it of course, only works for me. I DO appreciate Presence in a stallion, and have been around many stallions of many different breeds. But there is a difference between being completely unruly and having great presence and interest in mares. I chose between the stallion in question at the Eval. and another. The stallion at the Eval was misbehaving worse than any Arab, Thoroughbred, Quarter Horse, Andalusian, etc. stallion that I have ever seen! Yes, he is a stallion, but no, I do NOT want to see that kind of attitude in any breed. Arabs and TB's are known to be, and almost expected to be hot. Fjords, as far as my knowledge go, are not, yet this stallion was truly frightening. I haven't ever seen a stallion go as ballistic as this one did. To the point that I was even worried about his handler. It wasn't just presence, in my eyes, but clear and present danger. I am very happy that I chose the other stallion to sire Juniper's baby. He too has stallion presence, and is very aware of mares, and very masculine. However, he is not a danger to those around him. And I thought that was what fjords were all about? Being able to do it all, and do it calmly. There were other beautiful stallions at the Eval, that had it all. Beauty, elegance AND a good attitude. I think one of them got a blue ribbon along with the stallion in question. Anyway, as I said, just my opinion, and I'm not sure I'm expressing myself as well as I could have. Still recuperating from foalwatch and a difficult birth, so I'm still not as coherent as I could be. Pamela
Stallion Temperament
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] My first reaction on reading that the NFHR evaluation doesn't address temperament was surprise, after reading in Carol's book that the Dutch have three different scores for temperament. I think they were Attitude, Character, Something Else (can't remember and can't find my book right now, sorry -- maybe Carol could fill this in?). So I looked up the NFHR evaluation rules on the web site and sure enough, the closest we have to temperament is Presence, under the Type section. Certainly that is an important attribute, but it's not temperament. The tough part is defining acceptable or ideal temperament. I'm sure that we don't want to legislate our stallions into dullards, and I'm sure NOBODY wants that. However, most of us weren't at the evaluation in question so we don't know exactly what behaviour this stallion exhibited. I think it's probably normal for a stallion to go around trumpeting and pulling on the leadshank, etc. especially in the presence of other stallions. If on the other hand he was vicious, like attacking his handler with teeth or hooves, that would be unacceptable, IMHO. Also, is there perhaps an easier way to structure the evaluation for the benefit of the stallions? Maybe do the conformation analysis in hand seperately rather than all in the ring together? Certainly stallions in the wild coming together are going to fight, it's in their nature. Lori
Driving
This message is from: Beck, Sharon [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm new to driving, how far should the shafts go, behind the shoulder, infront of the shoulder
Re: Culling Fjords/Gelding
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thought so, but somehow eating horse meat became the focus of the topic. You obviously don't have to eat them to remove them from the breeding pool. That's what I was trying to say a while back there too, I didn't see why they would eat the males instead of just gelding them. Anyhow, this all reminds me of when I was about 10 years old, and reading My Friend Flicka. I had got to the point in the book where they're gelding the colts on the ranch and there is much talk of how the kid in the story feels about it, but nowhere does it say what gelding actually is. So I look up from my book and say to my mom, Mom, what does gelding mean? She gets this funny look on her face, like maybe it's time for the big talk, but recovers gracefully and says It's when they cut off a certain part of the horse so he can't breed. The problem was I think she must have been mumbling because I heard ...so he can't BREATHE. This seemed unusually cruel to me so I replied, Why don't they just kill them? She gets a further look, kind of like what child is this who thinks death is better than life without sex, and explains Because they still want to ride them. So I spent a couple months picturing geldings as poor horses who carried their riders around, slowly, painfully, gasping for breath, with part of their neck missing. Until later that year in school, we're reading Shane in class, and I put up my hand and say Sir, what's a steer? He stammers out Look it up in the dictionary. From his look, I was beginning to catch on and replied, Is it anything like a gelding?
Re: Re: Re: Culling Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thought so, but somehow eating horse meat became the focus of the topic. You obviously don't have to eat them to remove them from the breeding pool. Just be a responsible owner. I've addressed this issue in print in the Herald, but have had no feedback. I've had some pretty poor examples of the breed approach me to breed to my stallion. I just won't do it. Julie wrote that these people will just go elsewhere, but at least my conscience is clear. Money although always in short supply isn't important enough for me to cover these animals. It's bad for my stallions reputation and bad for the breed. I have some thoughts on Stallion behavior, but they'll have to wait as my daughter needs an event entry delivered by hand or we'll miss closing... She owes me big time for this. Vivian
Re: Re: Culling Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:06:25 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just because it can be bred doesn't mean it should be bred. Couldn't agree more. That was exactly my point to begin with.
Re: Stallion temperament
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-08-19 14:28:07 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The question is how much of this is heritable and how much is just because the stallion is virile (i.e., uncut)? That is, would a mare or a gelding out of him also be hard to handle/dangerous? Further, even if the traits are heritable, what would be the effect of a nuturing environment on the stallion's offspring? Good question. But when I see two stallions, of pretty much equal conformation, beauty and talent, and one of them is completely off the wall, and the other one can breed a mare, then go out to do demonstration in dressage later that evening, with other horses around, there is no question which stallion I would like to breed my mare. Nature or nurture, I'm not completely sold on either, but I think I'd have a better chance of having a foal with a good disposition by the latter sire. Pamela You make a good point, and I probably would make the same choice. However, the reason I wonder about the extent that temperament is genetically determined and consequently is heritable (vaguely remembering my college genetics courses that indicated that different traits have different percent heritability), is that, even if it is , only 50% of the genetic material comes from the sire. I also wonder if stallion temperament is not sex-linked, that is would it tend to be expressed more in a stud colt rather than a filly?
RE: training to drive
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 07:39 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: Jon A. Ofjord [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Beck, Sharon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thks for the information. I also thought that with a chariot, I could easily step off and jog behind it , for excersize, and step back on without stopping the horse, my dog could also jump on/off easily. I also was thinking about sending him to the amish for driving. Has anyone had the amish start their driving horses for them? Hmmm, I can't seem to get rid of the picture of Ben Hur flashing by in front of me with a team of Fjords pulling him along! ;-) Mike That's funny Mike. The same picture popped into my head when I first saw the word chariot. Might be fun, though. Hmmm... I think there is an old bicycle and a 55 gallon drum out back of the old shed. Haha, I want pictures of it when your done with the construction. Of course you have to be in the chariot and dressed in some Ben Hur type of clothes too. ;-) == Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Webster, NY, USA (Suburb of Rochester) Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Longing
This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Gail - yes, please elaborate - No dime store clickers in Germany and not sure what you mean. If I knew, I might have my mom bring a clicker over in September when she comes. My Fjord, Kai, also repsonds to stuff like good Boy - suuper. Kristine -Original Message- From: GAIL RUSSELL [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 17:31 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Longing This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have had similar problems longing. No where near figuring it all out, but working *without* longe line in a round pen or other enclosed space, coupled with clicker training to induce gait changes, might be a solution. Alexandra Kurlanda does clicker training with her horses and has used it to actually improve her horse's gaits. The principle is BF Skinner's behavioral psychology. Instead of rewarding by a release of pressure, you reward by giving a distinctive sound (people often use those little dime store frog clickers) which is *always* followed by a food reward. Clicker training is taking over the dog obedience world because it makes such happy performers. I've done a bit with Gunthar, no where near what I could have done. But he learns *very fast.* Took me 10 minutes to train him to touch the end of my whip - and he still remembers it months later with no practice in between. Alexandra talks about, among other things, a hard-to-shoe horse (read dangerous kicker) arriving at his stall door with his front foot cranked up into position for trimming - just in case someone wanted to trim it. :) If there is interest I'll elaborate - not sure this is perfectly appropriate to a FJord list - except that clicker training works *very well* with smart inquisitive horses. GAil At 04:58 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider has given me problems during his training! Everything else from being tied up as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as a 5 year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He would stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep on moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, then he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his hooves in the sand. Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we started to ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it would be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like longing more now, one never knows. Regards Anneli At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear that other people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is me, I`m the only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in Germany - horseowners in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with their animals. In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment on the longeline most people just look at me and go oh. that should never happen. don`t let that happen. And of course, I would just lve to scream !!! So, thanks for your honesty !! -Original Message- From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 To: Fjordhorse List Subject: Longing This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad [EMAIL PROTECTED] In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing her horse, I had the same problem when working with Dro/y this winter. We had a lot of snow and I was longing him in the only open area, which was not in any enclosure. he also hated it and would buck and occasionally make a break for it and get away. I got the impression that it is way too boring for him- he loves to get out and see things. Anyone's comments would be appreciated but I wont be able to answer for a week as I am heading to Nancy's tonight to look at a mare and spend a week. One note in response to the recent discussion: we Americans especially have to be careful not to be ethnocentric and remember that other people live with many different circumstances in their lives that we ourselves have not experienced. One shouldn't look at one small point in a culture and pass judgement without any more information than that one fact. thanks Ann
RE: Longing
This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Anneli - yea ! another one who hates longing ! I have practiced this exercise twice just this week with Kai. To tell you the truth, he didn`t do too badly. At the walk he is fine - bored stiff of course and looking around for distractions - but fine nonetheless. At the trot he is usually also okay - I`ve noticed that he gets impatient when his head is pulled so I always try to give him little half halts. I longe him in a pen made for that purpose - the stall owners don`t want to close it off (it is 1/4 open) because they say they`ve had problems with horses simply igoring the lines and breaking through them. Otherwise I would certainly unleash him. Kai has the most problems at the canter - which someone else mentioned just yesterday, I think. I am sure it has to do with stretching - and once he`s streched then it has to do with him wanting to let it all hang out. As they say here in Germany - wenn schon, denn schon - which means something like - while I`m at it I may as well really go for it. Keep trying - take it slow. I noticed Kai was more patient this week because he realized that I wasn`t planning on longing him forever - just 10 or 15 minutes. The next time we longed, he was much better, thinking, I`ll just let her swing that rope, this will be over in no time ! -Original Message- From: GAIL RUSSELL [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 17:31 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Longing This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have had similar problems longing. No where near figuring it all out, but working *without* longe line in a round pen or other enclosed space, coupled with clicker training to induce gait changes, might be a solution. Alexandra Kurlanda does clicker training with her horses and has used it to actually improve her horse's gaits. The principle is BF Skinner's behavioral psychology. Instead of rewarding by a release of pressure, you reward by giving a distinctive sound (people often use those little dime store frog clickers) which is *always* followed by a food reward. Clicker training is taking over the dog obedience world because it makes such happy performers. I've done a bit with Gunthar, no where near what I could have done. But he learns *very fast.* Took me 10 minutes to train him to touch the end of my whip - and he still remembers it months later with no practice in between. Alexandra talks about, among other things, a hard-to-shoe horse (read dangerous kicker) arriving at his stall door with his front foot cranked up into position for trimming - just in case someone wanted to trim it. :) If there is interest I'll elaborate - not sure this is perfectly appropriate to a FJord list - except that clicker training works *very well* with smart inquisitive horses. GAil At 04:58 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider has given me problems during his training! Everything else from being tied up as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as a 5 year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He would stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep on moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, then he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his hooves in the sand. Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we started to ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it would be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like longing more now, one never knows. Regards Anneli At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear that other people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is me, I`m the only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in Germany - horseowners in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with their animals. In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment on the longeline most people just look at me and go oh. that should never happen. don`t let that happen. And of course, I would just lve to scream !!! So, thanks for your honesty !! -Original Message- From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 To: Fjordhorse List Subject: Longing This message is from:
