Re: Gail Russell's #138 remarks & other stuff
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those of you in dry areas maybe put a drip on your ground rod(s) for a functional ground. Yes, we put our ground rods for solar powered chargers near (but safely out of range of curious horses),the stock tanks.When they overflow, it moistens the soil, and helps keep the ground rod functioning... Karen in Nevada ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Pulling, Gelding Stallions and Mares Cycling
This message is from: Nancy Hotovy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My first comment would be in regards to having your farrier or veterinarian decide whether you have a stallion prospect or not. A farrier or veterinarian SHOULD be able to tell about conformation flaws however breed type is not something they would have any idea about. My farrier absolutely loved a 15 1 hand Fjord gelding I purchased that we nicknamed our "Thoroughbred Fjord" because he reminded us more of TB type than Fjord type. This horse had great conformation and a wonderful attitude but his type was totally out of sync with what a Fjord should be. Be careful in regards to judging a colt that is young also. Other than obvious conformational faults, they change a lot before they mature and all seem to go through an "ugly" stage at some point in their development. I'm not advocating keeping all colts in tact until they are older, but be careful in your assessment of a "good" or "bad" colt. No offense Brian and Steve but all veterinarians are not "horse" people. As far as Fjord mares cycling different then other breeds, please explain further. Mine have always cycled pretty much like any other horse. Of course there are individual mares that have never read the book and do their own thing, however, we get many mares of all other breeds in our clinic for AI and there are a few of those that also do some very strange cycles so I would rather think it's an individual "mare" thing rather than a "Fjord" thing. My husband, Rich has done quite a bit of pulling over the past 10 years and has had teams that do very well (actually placing at draft horse pulls) and also has had horses that do not have the mind for pulling. Our best is a gelding "Anvil's Birger". He can pull and then be hooked to a cart or wagon and do fine. He truly is the exception as my feelings are that most horses can pull periodically but if that is all they do, they get that "pulling mentality". Rich works his teams in the woods quite a bit. Two years ago he logged 120,000 board feet one winter. He worked 6 days a week and his team was really "fit". Made him feel good when he went down to the barn in the morning and held out the collar and Birger put in head right in it - - never hesitated. Anyway he only entered the "fun" and "barnyard" pulls (the professionals really play hardball and some do use very controversial "training" methods) and placed near the top in every one against mostly Belgians. My personal opinion is that pulling itself is not cruel. It's one of those sports that people who are too competitive have made cruel, both by the training methods used and not knowing their horses well enough to stop when they have had enough. We sold a team to some VERY elderly people for driving. Heard later that they not only drove this pair EVERY day but would enter a pony pull periodically and had NEVER lost. I heard this from a very irate puller (who had just lost to them). He said he'd never seen anything like it - - the man couldn't walk very fast and his wife hooked the team and she was all bent over. The team just stood patiently and when the guy took hold of the lines and said "Let's go boy's" they just walked off with the load. This guy was s mad - sure those fjords were bigger than they measured. He didn't know who he was complaining to. Rich and I chuckled for weeks over that one. OK I'm going to quit chatting now. Sorry for being long-winded. I just have so much more energy with that heat index below 110! Nancy
Re: fjordhorse-digest V99 #137
This message is from: ceacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi There, I haven't said much in a long while. I just finished two weeks of horse camp here despite the oppressive heat. Most of my school horses are mares who are lactating and rebred and they handled the heat beautifully, better than myself for certain. For a cold weather breed, I am amazed at how well the ponies can handle the heat. I would just like to comment on a couple of discussions. Red duns and soft feet. One of my most wonderful horses was a red dun and she had terrific feet, she was a Ring daughter out of an imported Norwegian mare. She had five foals in five years and was in foal with her sixth when she broke her leg and had to be euthanized. Despite her foaling record, her feet remained strong and required no extra care. As far as stallions in the wild and the conformation characteristics that provides an adaptive advantage, the factor that is being selected for is reproductive success. Mother Nature wasn't designing the horse to be ridden or driven by people, thus when we compare horses in the wild to horses that are being asked to perform in various ways for people, we are not really comparing apples to apples. And I believe that it is important to remember that what makes a stallion a great stallion and not just a great horse, is the quality of his offspring. I do not believe that you can evaluate the quality of a stallion's get until they are at the age that they too are performing/working. It isn't enough to have all the conformation qualities that we select for, a horse has to be a willing worker and have the trainability and temperament to succeed at whatever job it is his to do. Stallions that don't actually work themselves are very hard to evaluate , if their offspring don't work either it is really subjective aesthetics. What makes a strong stallion is kind of a vague question. It is necessary to look at the stallion in the context of his environment. How is he handled, by whom, and how experienced are the people who use the horse. I have seen many horses who were simply poor fits with their owners. How do you define libido in a horse? If the stallion gets the mares in foal without making a big scene, is he lacking in libido or is he simply an experienced breeder who is efficient at his job. If you have a young stallion who is not allowed to be a horse first, who is pushed beyond his ability at too young an age and reacts with bad behavior out of frustration, are we to assume that he has an aggressive personality or a poor temperament. Perhaps in the hands of someone else this horse would be a different personality. Many young stallions need to mature in the breeding shed. They start off overly eager and seem somewhat rank but after a few years mellow out. It is easier to blame the horse, his breeding, his genes, than it is to be patient and allow horses to mature and develop their potential over time. In Norway , there are economic factors that shape their selection criteria. A small population of horses, a limited gene pool, and a legacy of line breeding that needs to taken into consideration when they approve stallions. I am not really sure where I am going with this except to say that selecting a stallion prospect and then proving the quality of that stallion takes years. You may have a great horse as an individual but you will only have a great stallion if he has great offspring. Those offspring need to grow up, it takes years. Anyway, just a few longwinded thoughts now that I have the chance to talk to someone over 17. Cheers, Ceacy
Re: NFHR/Herald
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/3/99 3:07:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I continue to renew my NFHR membership, which includes a subscription to The Herald. I think that supporting the organization is important. >> Hi Marsha- I would like to subscribe to The Herald. How do I go about it? Brigid, happy in greener pastures and almost ready to receive guests
Re: Hugin the Seahorse
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sounds like he needs to be in a circus! Barbara Lyn Finally he has all four feet in the tub, bobbing for >the ball, splashing it with his front feet, trying to get it as it floated >between his legs and just having a blast. He finally got the ball and stood >holding it in his mouth, like "Look at me!"
Looking for a mare
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List We have a 13 yr old gelding (a super guy, of course) and a yearling gelding (who has a few years to grow yet). Since there are two of us who want to show, ride, and play, we are looking for a mare 4-5 years old, 14-1+ that is ready to do stuff. We can train her to ride and drive (We show dressage and I drive). Looking for a Fjord we can love and add to the family. (I prefer geldings but my SO is a "girl-horse" guy). We are in VA, near DC, so if anyone has any girls that we can look at, we'd love to correspond about it. We will be at the NE Fjord show (I hope, so far) and are ready for a horse now, or we can wait 6 months to a year for the right one to come around, we will know. Thanks all Marsha Korose and Curt Pierce
Red Dun's Hooves
This message is from: Jean M Ruhan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Specific to Fjords - it is my understanding that the red duns tend > >to have shell-like feet. Does this mean that horses that produce red duns > >should not be bred? Are the shell-like feet an inevitable part of the red > >dun breeding? Or could one consciously attempt to improve the feet of the > >red duns in the breed. > My mare is Red Dun, 10 years old with a brown colt by her side sired by Hostar. Her feet are wonderful. Hope his are as good.
Re: Natural breeding versus artificial insemination
This message is from: "Starfire Farm, LLC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jean Ernest wrote: > This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Beth, > > Do you import those from Norway? :) > Why, yes, as a matter of fact. I should have said dun stripe, instead of brown stripe, since you can get them in any of the fjord dun colors; red, brown, grey, yellow, white. Of course, you have to be careful not to mix the white dun pipette with other breeds, as the stripe is very faint, and could easily be missed! > > At 10:13 PM 8/2/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >What about the pipettes that have a brown stripe running down the middle? > >;-) > > > >Beth > > > > > > > > Jean Ernest > Fairbanks, Alaska > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pulling / lets ask Orville
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, Bjarne would do anything for Orville, even after his experience with the other owner, but with a novice like me I think his fears came back, it was like he had flashbacks. He trusts me much more now, but I haven't tried driving him again. Jean in sunny Fairbanks, Alaska, 80 degrees and rising! Lauren Sellers wrote: >It was Orville & his daughter that first infected me with fjord fever. I >saw them perform in a wieght pull so calm & cool compared to the other >horses there, it was like night & day. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hugin the Seahorse
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/3/99 15:40:02 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << nd he did stay cool. I got plenty splashed too. So there you go list, there is a safe game you can give your foals. Hey! Fjords = fun! Misha >> That sounds wonderful! Especially in these dog days of summer . Anything to stay cool is great in my book! Pamela
Hugin the Seahorse
This message is from: misha nogha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Still hovering near the 100's here and still no rain. I think I mentioned my youngest foal Hugin really loves to play in water. Yesterday he had commandeered the water hose and was spraying the rest of the horses with it. Today I had an idea for his fun--being only three 1/2 weeks old, he gets bored fast. So I took one of those fortrex rubber tubs, filled it with water and then put a child sized soccer ball in it. In less than ten seconds Hugin had his front feet in that bucket 'bobbing' for the ball. It was funnier than heck. Finally he has all four feet in the tub, bobbing for the ball, splashing it with his front feet, trying to get it as it floated between his legs and just having a blast. He finally got the ball and stood holding it in his mouth, like "Look at me!" The he dropped it back in the tub and started the game again. I notice right now he is taking a nap, so I guess that kept him busy long enough to make him tired. And he did stay cool. I got plenty splashed too. So there you go list, there is a safe game you can give your foals. Hey! Fjords = fun! Misha
Re: Libby and shirts
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jean-- Tuesday, August 03, 1999, you wrote: > When are the shirts being mailed out...? Shirts will be going out as soon as I print out mailing labels. Hopefully, in the next day or two. -- Steve McIlree & Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA If I be once on horse-back, I alight very unwillingly; for it is the seat I like best. --Michel Eyquem de Montaigne(1533-1592)
Re: line breeding
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Brian-- Sunday, August 01, 1999, you wrote: > Line breeding is generally not desireable because it eventually can > result in decreased hardiness or vitality of a breed, and it can > tend to magnify undesireable genetic characteristics. Given the limited gene pool of Fjords, isn't strict avoidance of line-breeding impossible? If indeed all living Fjords trace to Njaal 166 fewer than 100 years ago there comes a point where all pedigrees must cross. In addition, the limited number of horses brought to this country must further limit access to some lines available in Europe. I'm not advocating line-breeding, simply pointing out that our available stock is the product of line-breeding or inbreeding. I suppose that might be a good argument for strict out-crossing of lines. -- Steve McIlree & Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA Then we began to ride. My soul smoothed itself out, a long-cramped scroll freshening and fluttering in the wind. --Robert Browning(1812-1889)
pulling / lets ask Orovil
This message is from: "fjords" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It was Orvil & his daughter that first infected me with fjord fever. I saw them perform in a wieght pull so calm & cool compared to the other horses there, it was like night & day. Then his daughter drove the calm pair. It was poetry in motion. Comparing the fjords to the other breeds there ended my search for the perfect breed. Instead of breeding my paint /clydsdale cross I persued breeding fine fjords now I have 17 and am so happy. What is your magic to keep them so calm in a wieght pull ? Thank you Orovil for fjord fever. Lauren Sellars www.fjordhorse.net
NFHR/Herald
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Alex Wind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > do the majority of you still subscribe to The Herald? > Is this forum tending to replace or only supplement the breed magazine? I continue to renew my NFHR membership, which includes a subscription to The Herald. I think that supporting the organization is important. I find that the magazine satisfies different needs than does FJORDHORSE. I like the photos; somehow a print in a magazine is easier to study than one on the screen (better resolution, for one thing). The articles are variable---having been a member forever (I think clear back to Issue 1), I'm not too thrilled when they reprint stuff, although I realize that new members are coming in all the time. FJORDHORSE is for chatting with folks, getting to know them (altho, sometimes more than I want to), and especially about sharing information on specific problems. IMHO, I "need" both Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Libby and shirts
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When are the shirts being mailed out and how do I get a packet about the Libby show? Merci und danke! Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Re: The Strength of Stalliions
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I like that keeping options open but I suspect we are going to do a better job than Mother Nature Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Re: The Strength of Stalliions
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So Marsha, surely you must know, :) - why are all the horses in old > western photos hammer headed and with weak looking necks - sorta > straight out and not muscled on top. Seems to me a lot of the > mustangs look like this too? Maybe they were just poorly conditioned > or could not afford to be selective about breeding? Or these > characteristics had functional advantages? Beats me, but maybe I can invent something! ;-) But, yeah, looking thru old family photos from the horse-riding era, most of the horses were roman-nosed and ewe-necked. The "upside down" necks could be related to the use of strong curb bits. Horses were expected to get the job done, and collection (as we understand it) was too much "unnecessary" work. Also, a cowboy would select a horse on the basis of 1) can it do the job, and 2) does my saddle fit it. (Saddles cost more than horses, in those days.) Lots of the horses were range-bred, barely a step above wild herds, so natural selection probably had more influence than "selective breeding". Most of the breed registries didn't exist yet, so breed-ring shows hadn't had a chance to muck things up. Look at Standardbreds (where for a long time, the only registry criterion was the ability to trot/pace a certain minimum speed) and warmbloods (a lot of breeds mixed together, with performance being the major criterion). You'll see a lot of, um, inelegant heads. As the old saying goes, "You don't ride the head". Today, horses rarely WORK for a living; most (including mine) are "pasture art". I'm as much of a sucker as the next person for a pretty face, although the older I get, the more I appreciate a good mind. (The prettiest face in my barn does NOT have a good mind.) Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: The Strength of Stalliions
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So Marsha, surely you must know, :) - why are all the horses in old western photos hammer headed and with weak looking necks - sorta straight out and not muscled on top. Seems to me a lot of the mustangs look like this too? Maybe they were just poorly conditioned - or could not afford to be selective about breeding? Or these characteristics had functional advantages? > >Wild horses tend to have large, "coarse" heads. Stallion fights >include a lot of biting, which encourages a heavy, strong jaw. And, >surviving on tough vegetation needs a similar jaw for chewing. >"Form follows function", and all that. > > > Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Line Breeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Good Day from Carol at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - In my posting titled STALLION STRENGTH, I asked the question, how do we keep the breed strong? I want to thank Brian Jacobsen DVM for his EXCELLENT post on line breeding. I think everyone should print that one out and stick it in their SAVE folder. It was Sunday, August 1, and titled LINE BREEDING. Regards, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: The Strength of Stalliions
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mother Nature assures that the strongest stallion is the winner. > So is a small headed lead stallion so bad or is this just human > aesthetics? For a "cautionary tale", look to the dog breed shows. Irish setters and Collies have been bred for long, narrow, "elegant" heads---to the detriment of their brains and working instincts. (No space left to store them, I suspect.) Wild horses tend to have large, "coarse" heads. Stallion fights include a lot of biting, which encourages a heavy, strong jaw. And, surviving on tough vegetation needs a similar jaw for chewing. "Form follows function", and all that. So, maybe we don't need that in modern domestic horses, you say? Problem is, genes aren't simple things---lots of different traits get bundled together, so culling "coarse heads" may also cull something seemingly unrelated, like longevity. Until the horse genome is fully explored and mapped, we won't know all the details. Meanwhile, I think we'd better keep our options open Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: The Strength of Stalliions
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle -Original Message- > >The problem with strict and mandatory evaluations is that, if you blow >it on your criteria, you can damage the breed forever. Take a good, >long look at a herd of wild horses. Mother Nature does not "select" >for pretty heads, or even esthetically pleasing body proportions---a >whole lot of wild horses are considered just plain ugly. She selects >for what works! > >Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! >30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. >--- >Right Marsha, and Mother Nature assures that the strongest stallion is the winner. So is a small headed lead stallion so bad or is this just human aesthetics? Jean
Re: Pulling contests
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My old gelding Bjarne was used (and abused ) in pulling contests > before I got him after Orville Unrau reposssessed the team. His team > mate was ruined, "his brain was fried" but Bjarne seemed OK. However > he still , after 12 years I've had him, gets hyper in arenas, [...] > will tend to get excited and hard to hold if I put much contact on the > bit. > > Yes, I assume most horses in Pulling contests are NOT abused but it > does affect them I think it has a lot to do with what the animal does for a living. If all they do is pulling contests, then they get "hot" about it. The "boss" wants to win, and there's this atmosphere of tension, so they learn all the wrong things. OTOH, if the animal makes its living pulling a plow, or logging, and only occasionally is asked to do a pulling contest, it's a much different situation. Plows and logs need to be started slowly, by leaning into the collar, and moved smoothly. "Blasting" into the collar wears a horse down when there's a full day of work ahead. Many years ago, at Libby, there was a father and son (horse farmers) who entered the pulling contests. Every year, they'd swap teams, and almost every year, the father would win---Sonny usually got excited and had the horses leaping into the collar; Dad would ease them into it, together. One year, the old man's team hadn't had much field work that spring, and couldn't move the top weight. He would have been allowed 3 tries at the weight, but after the second one, he shook his head, reached down, unhooked the team, and quietly drove them away. It was pretty clear that the crowd figured he was the real winner Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: responding to a post
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:59 AM 8/3/99 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike I use Outlook Express and checked off delete old msg under options. I do not like the fact that it does not allow the part of the old msg you wish to respond to so will revert back and forth as needed. I was erasing so do not see what the furor was about. Jean I just tried Outlook Express and it doesn't have that feature I am afraid. You can just select the text you don't want & hit the delete key though. That works just fine. Mike Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Re: The Strength of Stalliions
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> quoted/wrote: > > >Chief Inspector Van Bon [...] made an interesting comment. He said (and > >I paraphrase), "You don't find really strong stallions anymore like Gjest > >and Myrstein." > > So what does this mean? Does it mean that their breeding program isn't > working as they planned it to? Why isn't there any really strong stallions > anymore? That was certainly the logical conclusion that I came to Many years ago (before NFHR had its own evaluations together), I was listening in while David Klove (then a major player in the Norwegian registry) was chatting about the possibility of stallions evaluated in the US becoming Norwegian-registered. I got the distinct impression that he thought that some of the North American lines were preserving traits that the Norwegian evaluations had "lost", and that Norway should at least keep their options open about someday regaining those genes. The problem with strict and mandatory evaluations is that, if you blow it on your criteria, you can damage the breed forever. Take a good, long look at a herd of wild horses. Mother Nature does not "select" for pretty heads, or even esthetically pleasing body proportions---a whole lot of wild horses are considered just plain ugly. She selects for what works! Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: responding to a post
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike I use Outlook Express and checked off delete old msg under options. I do not like the fact that it does not allow the part of the old msg you wish to respond to so will revert back and forth as needed. I was erasing so do not see what the furor was about. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Pulling contests
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bill, Here are some quotes from comments on the Carriage Driving List about pulling contests: Dear Eve, The way you describe Tom's behavior it sure sounds like he was used in pulling contests, a sport by the way- that Amish do not compete in. Each time the pony is hooked the weight is increased and they get progressively more worked up as the contest continues. I was at a pony pull last week and there was a pair weighing 2100 lbs who were pulling a load of over 4000 lbs in a sled- just to give you an idea of what we are talking about. It is extremely hard to rework a pulling horse back into a pleasure animal, I am not saying that it can not be done- but it will be a lot of work... his excitement for the pull combined with the fact that he may have never worked single really lays out a job for you. Another thing to bear in mind is that hitting or slapping the lines is stricly illegal in contests, although this makes the show appear more humane, it also means that a few unscrupulous horrible people use very nasty methods at home to incite their teams to give it their all. I have heard of electricity being hooked to the BIT! (God knows how this gives forward motion or how one manages to ever bridle a horse who has had this done- but it happens) >>> There are many pulling styles- some drive up and as soon as the hook of the evener clinks with the chain of the sled- they slam out without a word from the driver. Some drivers drive in and let the ponys "stand" (jitter is more like it) and they get the two alligned so their start will be together- the word for go is usually... "HERE" Yep, I bet if you try that on Tom- he'll rip the singletree out of your cart. >> These horses are also like slingshots- the harder you hold the reins the harder they expect the load to be and the harder they hit the collar when you let go. If you watch a pull, a team that is white eyed and freaking at the sled, will be low headed and relaxed two minutes later while they wait for the next go round. Like thorobred racehorses- they are very into pressure! Near the end of the pull, some teamsters will lead rather than drive the horses into place and pick up the lines very careful not to get any contact until they are ready to go, then they have only seconds between the first contact, the collection and the slingshoting release. At 11:47 AM 8/3/1999 +, you wrote: >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Joel (and any others), > We have a team of big strong geldings that we have been urged to >enter into local pony pulls. I have always resisted (and will >continue to so so) since I believe that the way horse pulls are run >around here at least is very unnatural, and potentially hurtfull to >the horses. My old gelding Bjarne was used (and abused ) in pulling contests before I got him after Orville Unrau reposssessed the team. His team mate was ruined, "his brain was fried" but Bjarne seemed OK. However he still , after 12 years I've had him, gets hyper in arenas, bolted with me in the cart years ago in an arena, and will tend to get excited and hard to hold if I put much contact on the bit. Great as a trail horse, but I'll never drive him again. Yes, I assume most horses in Pulling contests are NOT abused but it does affect them Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, Sunny and forecast to be 80 degrees..Summer is back! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The band in the wild & other things
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For the pull, horses were weighed then weight pulled in relation to horse
> weight determined winners.
Joel (and any others),
We have a team of big strong geldings that we have been urged to
enter into local pony pulls. I have always resisted (and will
continue to so so) since I believe that the way horse pulls are run
around here at least is very unnatural, and potentially hurtfull to
the horses. That is, they are hooked to the boat and then asked to
"jerk' the load forward. Although I am not very expereinced with
draft work, this does not seem to be the way a horse will normally be
worked pulling plows, harrows, hay rakes etc. Yes, you want them to
lean into the collar, but with the energy brought to bear in a
less extreme way.
Also, the idea of reaching a weight that the horses
can't pull ("sticking them") I have always been told is a great way
to break a horse's spirit.
Am I being soft here?
Re: The strength of stallions
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 10:27 AM 8/3/99 +, you wrote: So what is the real situation? Is the European program resulting in only quality stalions, or in stallions that are not "really strong". If the latter, have we been led down the proverbial primrose path with all the importing of the "fantastic fillies" being brought into North America by various folks. If the stallions aren't "strong", why should we assume that their get is worth importing and breeding? Excellent question Bill. If the European breeding programs run by the governments are so much better than ours where are the results??? === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fw: Fjord Breed Spotlight
This message is from: "Catherine Lassesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This was sent to me and I would think many would be interested in it. Subject: Fjord Breed Spotlight Hello Fjord Breed Enthusiast. We would like to let you know that HorseQuest.com is featuring the Fjord horse in the August Breed spotlight. HorseQuest.com recieves thousands of visitors per month which gives the Fjord Horse the exposure it deserves. http://www.horsequest.com In addition to the spotlight, we have listed your ranch on the Fjord Breed Resource page, under breeders. We hope to be able to help in the promotion of this wonderful breed. If there are any other worthwhile Fjord Breeder, Organization or Publications that you think should be listed, please let us know. Please feel free to visit the HorseQuest.com Fjord Breedspotlight. Take care and thanks for your time. Sincerely, Deann DaSilva http://www.horsequest.com Dare to Compare... 4 wonderful Fjord Weanlings under $2500 Special Pricing for the months of August and September... Compare Quality... Compare Price... Compare Training... Dare to Compare
The band in the wild & other things
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another reminder of how different horses are kept now. How many let their horses out in a herd to let them be horses? I agree about "aggressive behavior" in stallions. Not always a desirable trait. Went to a draft horse show a few weeks ago. Was done for the night. Washed the team then allowed them to roll on the track on the way back to the barn. Saved them from rolling in the stalls & dirt brushed right out in AM. Was interesting the way the log skid was conducted. We all WALKED through it as one strives to do in the woods. 5 pts off for stepping out or hitting a cone. Last thing done was stop then move logs 12". This took care of ties. More interesting to me than watching horses, & teamsters run through it. For the pull, horses were weighed then weight pulled in relation to horse weight determined winners. Bye Joel ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Breeders
This message is from: "Catherine Lassesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> We can talk about the Breeder being the one to select but then we will have Barn sour breeders. The best education is to go to Norway and see what "they throw away" and call "No Good". Once home we evaluated our stallion prospects and allowed them both to breed. We watched and evaluated again after allowing them to be stallions. ONE got CUT, the other we are allowing to go into his next year. Many Breeders would not have CUT the one we did... many would have said and will say we made a mistake. He was beautiful and correct and and ... But He had a brain of an idiot when it came to breeding and handling when mares were in season. In Norway... stallions are excused the first day for being an idiot. they are not even tested... bad in the stall... GELDED immediately... Bet this message has some stallions watching their balls! Catherine L.
Re: The strength of stallions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Carol wrote: > > >Chief Inspector Van Bon, and he made an interesting comment. He said (and > I paraphrase), "You don't find really strong stallions anymore like Gjest > and Myrstein." An interesting comment, and something worth considering, > wouldn't you say? > > What he meant by "strong" was constitutionally. A stallion that with rough > use would stay sound and healthy and potent right up into old age. > Apparently, this type of strong stallion was fairly normal in the old days, > but is becoming less so today.< I'm glad I didn't just delete this message after noting the not so hidden and/or subtle advertisement contained herein. After reading the entire post, it occurred to me that Bob is saying this even though we have been told of THE INCREDIBLY RIGOROUS stallion testing and evaluation programs that are practiced in northern Europe, and how we (i.e. US and Canada) are producing too many stallions and not being rigorous enough in selection, etc. So what is the real situation? Is the European program resulting in only quality stalions, or in stallions that are not "really strong". If the latter, have we been led down the proverbial primrose path with all the importing of the "fantastic fillies" being brought into North America by various folks. If the stallions aren't "strong", why should we assume that their get is worth importing and breeding?
AI and Frozen
This message is from: "Catherine Lassesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Hey... don't let the rumors kill the AI and FROZEN semen trade. It is a >simple procedure, but you need to be trained and your VET if you use one >needs to know your mares. YOU need to know your mares. That means ULTRA >Sounds and Palpations daily to know how your mare cycles. Fjords cycle >differently than AQHA and APHA mares. Dr. Brian can you expand on WHY??? >All I know is that when I knew the mare, we had 100% conception no matter >who was the "PAPA" and who collected the semen. EDUCATE yourself... or send >your vet...by attending UC Colorado AI SHORT COURSES or CAL POLY Short >Courses. Email me in private if you want more information. > >Also be a GOOD mare owner... Ask questions... What is the sperm count, >motility, What extender are they using (some mares have reactions to some.)? > >Email me for more info. It is REALLY NOT AS BAD AS YOU THINK... > > >Catherine Lassesen >HESTEHAVEN - the horse garden >FJORDS FOR SALE... September SHOW SPECIALS ALL Weanlings under $2500 DARE TO >COMPARE... >QUALITY and PRICE >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.thehorsegarden.com > > >
Re: "Color blinded..."
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/3/99 6:35:40 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << As a former breeder, exhibitor and field-trialer of Golden Retrievers, no one know better than I what can happen to a breed when buyers and breeders stray from the spirit, as well as the letter, of the breed standard, in the name of beauty. >> Oh boy, and have I caught flack from the German Shepherd purists (oops, hope there are none in this forum). I really prefer a white german shepherd. One that is well balanced and beautiful. The old style, not the super angulated ones. I've got one now (along with my pound rescue flatcoat retriever type). For some reason, these people think that the white is inferior. Even if born in a black and tan litter. One of the things I get is "they blend with the sheep". Well, I can tell the difference between a sheep and a dog, and how many shepherd owners herd sheep with their dogs anyway? . If there were a nice grey, red, yellow, purple dun in front of me, (and I had the space in my barn), I'd snatch it up in a minute. Of course, that would be after I pried Hansel out of Lisa's life . Pamela
Re: An observation
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 12:46 AM 8/3/99 -0400, you wrote: And another thing, do the majority of you still subscribe to The Herald? The Herald now has a circulation of over 700. Is this forum tending to replace or only supplement the breed magazine? I would say it is only a supplement for sure. You don't get the educational articles or the stories from the members that you do in the Herald. I keep letting my subscription lapse because they don't send reminder notices when you are expired, Oh but we do. In fact I do. Each year in late November or early December I mail out over 700 renewal notices. I just looked and yours expired 12/31/98 so I am sure one was sent to your address at that time. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gail Russell's #138 remarks & other stuff
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for some interesting comments about breeding for the color grey. At least not everyone is into it. It has been my experience with other breeds that white feet are soft. I need some help here. My e-mail allows me a signature that contains 400 characters. Boy, that means I could take up 1/2 of the screen with my signature. Now I need to think of what I can lull all of you to sleep with for my signature. I just want to thank some of you for consistency. You know who you are. That is a good trait when dealing with horses & children. It does seem to push some buttons on the list though. Sometimes change is good. Surprise us. How would we feel if our horses made the same mistake over & over again? Think about how much our host has to scroll through. I bet he has a life. To those of you experiencing problems with electric fences - the key to the success of a New Zealand type fence seems to be that one of the wires is a ground. That way there is a competed circuit everytime a horse challenges the fence. I don't see why it would not work on other electric fences. Those of you in dry areas maybe put a drip on your ground rod(s) for a functional ground. Bye Joel ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
"Color blinded..."
This message is from: "Knutsen Fjord Farm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi again Digest - I see my last post regarding preference for coat color has elicited some interesting responses. I notice a lot of "either/or" or "black-and-white" thinking. For example, if one has an interest in breeding grey Fjords, one must be "color blinded". Apparently, those are the only two choices - no interest in color, or taking leave of one's senses and breeding only for coat color, no matter if your horse has five legs or otherwise doesn't fit the breed standard. This way to frame a question is similar to some either/or thinking that has appeared at other times on the Digest - one either has a dangerous or a "dumbed down" stallion. No other options. Darn, no good choices there... Thanks, Mike, for offering your usual balanced perspective and truth-telling! Given that one has many high-quality horses to choose from when buying or breeding, nothing is wrong with choosing from among them a color one prefers, any more than there is in choosing a body "type" one prefers. Every breeder breeds for "quality," but there is a great deal of variation, it seems, in how one defines "quality," even within the guidelines of our breed standard. As a former breeder, exhibitor and field-trialer of Golden Retrievers, no one know better than I what can happen to a breed when buyers and breeders stray from the spirit, as well as the letter, of the breed standard, in the name of beauty. The popularity of Goldens has led to the existence of many stupid, bad-tempered, but beautiful, dogs. This could happen to Fjords if we ignore any of the hallmarks that make our breed what it is. But to continue with the Golden Retriever example, fashion in terms of "redness" or "blondeness" of coat has swung back and forth, without harming the breed by ignoring the standard. Food for thought I see that I really have gone on and on - this is the end of my speech. Bye for now - Peg
Re: The Strength of Stalliions
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 05:25 PM 8/2/99 -0300, you wrote: OK, let's talk about something else. --- When I was in Holland this Spring searching for yearling fillies to import, I had a conversation with Chief Inspector Van Bon, and he made an interesting comment. He said (and I paraphrase), "You don't find really strong stallions anymore like Gjest and Myrstein." An interesting comment, and something worth considering, wouldn't you say? So what does this mean? Does it mean that their breeding program isn't working as they planned it to? Why isn't there any really strong stallions anymore? The Europeans have a lot of interesting and sound ideas about breeding horses. Aren't these kind of conflicting statements? Just wondering... Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: responding to a post
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 04:24 PM 8/2/99 -0500, you wrote: That's a great function. What e-mail program do you use? I tried it with mine (Netscape 4.6) and it didn't work. I use Eudora Pro v.4.2 & it works that way too. It is a nice feature for sure.
Re: Breeding for Color.
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 04:29 PM 8/2/99 -0500, you wrote: Our red dun is only 1 1/2 years old but there has been no hoof problems. In fact the farrier says her hoof growth between visits good. He thinks he "forgot to do her the last time" Are her hooves black or amber?
Re: WARNING! Advertisement - delete if not interested - Stained Glass
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 03:48 PM 8/2/99 -0600, you wrote: Available off-the-rack (colors can be changed on any of these) Fjord head (facing you) Fjord head (profile) NEW 2 Fjord heads in harness NEW Fjord horse NEW Are these sun catchers or windows or what? How big are they? Do you have some pictures available that I could see? They sound pretty interesting. Mike
