Re: Discussion of dun characteristics
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Spanish mustangs often are some shade of dun. A lot of the feral horses from the Kiger region in Oregon are horses that are selected to be dun, grullo, or red dun. I'll bet that little "Buckskin colored" Dun horse you rode was of Spanish mustang heritage. Dr. Phil Sponenberg's books on horse color are a wonderful source of information, with tons of photographs. I highly recommend his latest, "Equine color genetics, Second edition" As a side note, tanned deer hide or "Buckskin" is about the same color as our brown dun Fjords! So one COULD say they were "buckskin" colored! Just to confuse the issue, LOL Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, 70 degrees with showers and thunderstorms At 09:07 PM 7/5/2006 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: "Jon A. Ofjord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks for your information Jean. The horse that I was referring to was pointed out to me by a "cowboy" type of wrangler who said: "You can get on that little line-backed dun. His name is 'Buck'". (Which was something I hoped he didn't do!). He was, what I would call, a buckskin color and was referred to by the wrangler as being a buckskin also - lighter tannish-brown with black points, the Zebra striping on his legs and dark mane and tail with some lighter hairs on the outside of the mane and the dun stripe running down his back. Cool looking little horse.
Re: Discussion of dun characteristics
This message is from: "Jon A. Ofjord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks for your information Jean. The horse that I was referring to was pointed out to me by a "cowboy" type of wrangler who said: "You can get on that little line-backed dun. His name is 'Buck'". (Which was something I hoped he didn't do!). He was, what I would call, a buckskin color and was referred to by the wrangler as being a buckskin also - lighter tannish-brown with black points, the Zebra striping on his legs and dark mane and tail with some lighter hairs on the outside of the mane and the dun stripe running down his back. Cool looking little horse. Mary O. At 11:51 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote: This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Karen, do you have Dr.Philip Sponenberg's latest book on color, "Equine color genetics, Second edition"? As you have set yourself as the color authority on the list I would assume you have kept up with his continuing research on Equine color genetics. In his discussion on terminology he states "It is important to note that the use of the terms "Buckskin" and "Dun" are extremely variable throughout many breeds as well as many geographic regions." Jon & Mary Ofjord North Coast Fjords Grand Marais, MN 55604 www.northcoastfjords.com
RE: Re: genetic diversity
This message is from: "Eike Schoen-Petersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Karen, the question is, how many of these mares produce a foal per average year? Now in Norway, Denmark and Germany there were between 300 and 400 foals registered last year (each). Mike May can tell you how many he registered last year. Netherlands is a special case, I don´t now the numbers there. Maybe five hundred together in Belgium, Sweden, Finland, France, UK, a handful in Switzerland, some scattered foals in the Czech republic, Poland, New Zealand, Chile, Argentina, Spain, not much more. How many active mares does that make, really participating in a selective breeding programme? Maybe I underestimate the number of living mares, but so far I cannot see the foals being born from active mares. Many registries carry animals just because nobody declared them deceased. There is no way of making a true head count of the breeding population except by the product, the registered foals. I´d be happy to stand corrected! Eike
close breeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I take exception to Carol Rs assuming that a closely bred mare is a fruitcake. I am sure they can be a fruitcake, but do you really think all closely bred animals are fruitcakes? I wish it were that easy! I had 2 fruitcake Morgans, one a mare and one a gelding, and neither were closely bred. In their case I think their showy upbringing was at fault mostly. I breed and have shown Shelties, most families are closely line bred on purpose. Does that make them fruitcakes? Ha ha! No more than the average Sheltie, linebred or not. Now, in my barn, I have 2 Fjord mares. One has very clean Dutch lines, one is the result of a half sister/half brother mating. One is very squirrely, not unmanageable, but taking more time and more socializing and much more care training than the other. If a tree falls in the surrounding forest, one jumps up, flags her tail, prances around, just looking for excitement. The other might raise her head from her hay. The calm one is the one who is not only line bred, but inbred. She is a solid using horse, capable, strong and vigorous. Am I advocating line breeding? Not at all. But, as usual, it is best to look at the horse in front of you. Respectfully, Valerie Columbia, CT
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This message is from: "Beth Pulsifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Love your humor! ?? :) Thanks for making the website easier to get... Beth in muggy Maine
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This message is from: "Beth Pulsifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks so much! I'm more awake today too... won't delete it this time!! :) Sorry you have to sell your gelding.. That's sad but it must help a little knowing that it's best for him right now??? Hope he gets a wonderful home. Beth in Maine
RE: photo website
This message is from: "Frederick J Pack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To make it easy, I converted Crystal's web site into a link: http://www.livinginoz.smugmug.com/ I especially like this picture: http://livinginoz.smugmug.com/gallery/1231083 May I post it to my list Crystal? Fred PS. Gotta go. The professor is bellowing again about something Aha! It is about the "trouble" gene that some people and animals carry... It causes involuntary acts of creating trouble when none exists. (Satire) All Mail is scanned in AND out by Norton Anti-virus. Fred and Lois Pack Pack's Peak Stables Wilkeson, Washington 98396 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re:photo website
zebra markings
This message is from: "Cathy Dalton and Ernest Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So... has anyone seen the zebra markings high up on the shoulder? Cathy with DannyBoy, a brown dun gelding with interesting markings on the right front shoulder.
gelding for sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] just a note that my horse Oz (Oslo Gull) is still for sale, due to health issues on my part (knee surgery, with another due in the fall). he is on the tall end for fjords, a solid 15HH, drafty. very well mannered and trained, riding both english and western. good health, sound, good feet, and has been on a very healthy diet since becoming way too fluffy this winter (thanks to my well-meaning but unknowing hubby). he's been ridden 3 times a week since april by my instructor (ouch, says my checkbook, but it's well worth it), and has gotten back into the work habit nicely, with riding in the arena, indoors and out, trails and lots of road work. he does not drive. asking $6000. he will be at blue earth. patti jo and her students are going to ride him in LOTS of classes, so you will recognize him as the one sleeping in his stall with glazed over eyes by wednesday afternoon. after blue earth he will be going to wisconsin with patti jo. laurie, who is still sad at parting with him, but knows it's the best for the big guy
Re:photo website
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/5/06 12:07:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > This message is from: "Beth Pulsifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Please post the site address for the photos again... I deleted by > mistake... > sighhh Talk about tired... > yer not the only one. look how many posts i had to do to get it right :) livinginoz.smugmug.com laurie, who is sort of awake, now that i'm at work.
Re: Genetic diversity
This message is from: "ruth bushnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This message is from: "Eike Schoen-Petersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ...Agricultural geneticists tell me that you only need a population of about 1,000 females for a sound breeding programme. Eike There are two different forms of usage for the word "population;" 1) commonly used as indicating number of a category, (like, size of a town, or? 2) and then there is "effective genome population," a geneticist would undoubtedly be referring to this measure, of a gene pool ...which is invariably smaller than an overall headcount population. The head count (populace) does not directly indicate a pure breed's genetic health. Population genetics is a study or measure of allele frequency distribution within a breed, which would vary in amount for many same-size (pop) different breeds.. Because, only a portion of any collective headcount actually breeds, and some portion will have a far greater measure of inbreeding than others---depending on their founder events, mode of mate selection, geographical distribution, marketing trends, breed society requirements, etc. Basically, any specific breed which mates within their breed perimeter, is UNDENIABLY inbred. So it's not "IF," ...it's "HOW MUCH?" It is the enormity of inbreeding and how we might check that evolution that we focus on, because trying to avoid inbreeding by studying pedigrees is becoming more and more difficult, numerous common ancestors spanning many generations, very complex! A mating couple may initially appear not to be related but if three or four generations back they are very closely related, you have the potential for very heavy inbreeding. I understand that one ramification of inbreeding, that comes with intensity, is that the gender ratio mutates.. this would be an interesting statistical project. (I wasn't able to find that reference however,) ..it's possibly something to keep in mind as we research ..certainly it would be interesting to know, with or without the science. Summation: we can take an overall head count, count the amount of mares and sires, but they might only represent ten actual distinct bloodlines in their genome, considerably less than their head count population, so the head count in terms of genetic health is immaterial. Ruthie, nw mt US
driving club
This message is from: Carol Makosky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi, Is there any driving club or clubs in the Tuscon, AZ area? -- Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin
RE: Genetic diversity
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 06:18 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote: This message is from: "Karen Keith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello Eike: Can this be right? We have a worldwide gene pool of maybe 10,000 mares. That would mean that more than half are in North America as there are 5100 mares in the NFHR registry. I have no idea how many are in the Canadian registry. Which doesn't allow for a whole lot in all of the European registries and wherever else in the world Fjords are. Sorry Karen but there are only 2843 mares registered in the NFHR right now. There are 5064 total registered. These numbers are "Registered" Not necessarily Living horses. Just scratching my head over that number. Karen _ realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Executive Director & Registrar PO Box 685 Webster, NY 14580-0685 Voice 585-872-4114 FAX 585-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
