Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.ca Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -- It's nice to be back. I posted to the List regarding the death of our stallion, Gjest, just days after he died. I wrote what I was feeling, and didn't spend a lot of time proofreading. -- I had a strong feeling that words needed to be said about Gjest. #1 - I felt Gjest deserved an extensive obituary. He was an important stallion. He has had a huge influence on the Fjord breed in North America, Scandanavia ,and Europe. He also had a strong influence on Fjord people in all those countries. He lived a long and accomplished life. -- The world needs to honor important individuals. #2 - Gjest was an extraordinary individual as a breeding and performance Fjord horse. Historically, Gjest was a particularly important breeding stallion. Those who have been involved with Fjords for many years know all about Gjest, but there are new people to the Fjord breed who might not know just how special he was, how important to the breed, and how highly regarded he was in Fjord countries around the world.I wrote that original post as an obituary to Gjest, but also as a statement and a reminder of his historical importance. I didn't want him to slip away without properly honoring him. #3 - I felt strongly that we had made the right decision with Gjest. He was 32 years old, and in good health. Good health for a 32 year old horse. However, despite our long-term efforts to keep him going, he was slipping physically, and just recently, he was slipping in spirit. -- It was the right decision for Gjest, but it was a horrible decision to have to make. It was horribly hard to let him go. --- As many people have said, keeping him alive would have been the easy way to go . . . for us, anyway. I feel that writing that post to the List was the right thing to do, and it was good to know that the vast majority of animal owners, Fjord owners felt the same, and would do the same thing for their animals. Only a very few people disagreed and said I'd killed our stallion. Well, they were right. That was the decision I had to make. -- I could call it putting him down, but I knew what it was. And that was exactly what gave me such anguish as I tried to come to a decision. It was constantly on my mind for months and months. I cried as much before coming to the decision as I did afterwards. Some days I knew it was the right thing to do, but on other days I waffled. Could I make this terrible decision to kill my stallion. Yes, that is the word I used when having these arguments with myself. I talked to a lot of people -- horse people who'd had horses long enough to have gone through this same torturous process. Finally, a dear horse friend, Tony, talked to me about Gjest's dignity, and after that, I knew what I should do. Gjest was our horse to care for, throughout his life, and until the end. - He was 32 years old. We'd owned him for 22 years, and given him the best possible care and use. During those 22 years, we never let anything slip. He never had to wait for a meal. There was never a time period that Gjest didn't receive the very best of care and respect. - We owed him a respectful death. The decision to end Gjest's life was ours to make. I could NEVER ask anyone else to make that final decision for me. It was my responsibility. Mine alone. -- But, I did ask advice from a lot of respected horse people, and one word kept coming up. That word was DIGNITY. -- Many people felt it was important to let an animal go with dignity, and that's what we did. Gjest was a magnificent stallion. He had dignity. He had presence. A dear soul on the List said . . . . Killing a living creature is an act of violence, but euthanasia is an act of mercy. Gjest's end was not violent. It was peaceful, merciful, and loving. Someone else made the very good point saying . . . Better two weeks too early, than one day too late. I want to thank all the people, and there were so many of them, who posted to the List about Gjest, and who emailed me privately, and those who phoned and sent sympathy cards. The thoughts and prayers that came our way were wonderful. And, knowing that all those thoughts were with us, helped Arthur and I enormously. We've read each email aloud to each other, or at least we've tried to say the words through the tears. -- Thank you all very much And, finally, I hope that we'll all remember the thoughts that were expressed by all of you in response to Gjest's death. -- The majority of those thoughts were in support of a peaceful, merciful death for our animals. As owners, this is a gift we can give our horses, cats, and dogs. . And, as our veterinarian said afterwards . . . We should all be so lucky to go that way. Kind Regards, Carol Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II, Ltd. Phone: 902-386-2304 Fax: 902-386-2149 URL:
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: Sarah Clarke sarahmagdalencla...@yahoo.com I am glad to hear your full perspective on this Carol. although we have never met here is the one thing I know for sure about you: Fourteen years ago a little colt came limping in from pasture on 3 legs and you went to extraordinary lengths to save him. (Probably not an economical decision) That colt is my herd sire BDF Malcom Locke and he is a magnificent animal and has sired wonderful offspring. My biggest problem has been finding mares to match him - many times I have seen a photo of a wonderful looking mare and I say to myself Oh that would make a nice cross only to find she's a Gjest descendant! Gjest made his mark on the fjord world and we are glad of it! --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.ca wrote: Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -- It's nice to be back. I posted to the List regarding the death of our stallion, Gjest, just days after he died. I wrote what I was feeling, and didn't spend a lot of time proofreading. -- I had a strong feeling that words needed to be said about Gjest. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
please unsubscribe me
This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com thanksjen Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Carol, I feel strongly that killing Gjest was wrong. I don't like using a public forum --like this list-- to tell people that they are wrong, but I am concerned that my silence about the death of Gjest would indicate that I agree with, or condone what you did. I can not remain silent because I feel what you did was criminal. I am shocked that the majority of the people on the 2 Fjord lists have supported your killing of Gjest. I no longer want to be associated with these groups. I am asking to be unsubscribed to this list and to Fred's Fjord Issues list. Jen On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.cawrote: This message is from: Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.ca Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire Only a very few people disagreed and said I'd killed our stallion. Well, they were right. That was the decision I had to make. -- I could call it putting him down, but I knew what it was. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
amen
This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com Lisa Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: Beth magicm...@roadrunner.com Jen , were you there to see Gjest slipping in health and spiritWhy not let him go before he suffered.. and lost his dignity. I didn't know him but have heard so much about him and believe he was very proud... If I'd been in Carol and Arthurs shoes I'd have done the same thing... In fact , I have with a horse or two of my own. It's a very hard thing to do. But I feel as Carol and so many others do, we owe it to our animal friends, be it horse, dog , cat or whatever. I don't consider it 'Killing Letting them go is more like it.. Beth - Original Message - From: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.cawrote: This message is from: Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.ca Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Hmmm.I asked to be unsubscribed to this list. Guess it hasn't been done yet.So I will reply to your e-mail: Carol said TWICE that he was NOT slipping in health. She made a point of saying that he was healthy. Please re-read her two e-mails. She did say that his spirit was not the same as when he was younger, but that is the very definition of aging. Who amongst us has the same spirit when we are 90 that we do at 50? That is NOT a reason to kill a horse. PLEASE--allow the guy to age gracefully and don't expect him to prance around and squeal like a young stallion. And don't project your human ideas about dignity onto an old horse who would just love to eat his mash. And as for his spirit, breeding a stallion takes a LOT of energy and longevity out of a him. Why was she breeding him to so many mares last year? Breeding him at this advanced age is what contributed to the decline of his spirit. I could go on and on about why y'all try to support and condone her treatment of Gjest. I understand that many of you love and admire Carol. I understand that there are also political reasons why you want to publicly support her. What I don't understand is WHY your support of her must be BLIND to the immorality of what she did to Gjest. I guess you are having a difficult time emotionally handling the complexity of this situation, and feel that you must be loyal to Carol, even when she has commited an act that is wrong. I am sad that animals have no rights, but if they did, this act of killing Gjest would surely have violated them. She could have easily given Gjest to someone who was willing to care for him, and not kill him in advance of his needing to go. If Carol had said that Gjest was suffering, I would applaud her difficult decision to euthenise Gjest. But she said he was in good health and NOT suffering any pain at all. In this case, killing Gjest NOW to avoid what may (or may not) happen in the future, is wrong. If your animals are suffering, and vetrinary care can not take away that suffering, please do help them with a vet assisted death. But if your animal is old and healthy, and you are scared that perhaps he will suffer in the future, please give him/her away to someone who does not have fears about facing the challenges of caring for an aging animal. If it is inconveniant for you to care for an aging animal, admit it and find help. I say: don't kill an animal now for the reason that euthenising it later may be a hardship on you. Enough. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Beth magicm...@roadrunner.com wrote: This message is from: Beth magicm...@roadrunner.com Jen , were you there to see Gjest slipping in health and spiritWhy not let him go before he suffered.. and lost his dignity. I didn't know him but have heard so much about him and believe he was very proud... If I'd been in Carol and Arthurs shoes I'd have done the same thing... In fact , I have with a horse or two of my own. It's a very hard thing to do. But I feel as Carol and so many others do, we owe it to our animal friends, be it horse, dog , cat or whatever. I don't consider it 'Killing Letting them go is more like it.. Beth - Original Message - From: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.cawrote: This message is from: Beaver Dam Farm beave...@ns.sympatico.ca Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: coy...@acrec.com coy...@acrec.com Hmmm.I asked to be unsubscribed to this list. Guess it hasn't been done yet Nope, Jen, because that is YOUR job, not the list owner's. Every message to the Fjord Horse List this link at the bottom: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e If you will follow the link and follow the directions there, you can take responsibility for unsubscribing yourself. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: Beth magicm...@roadrunner.com I am loyal only to my beliefs, jen, I don't even know Carol and don't have or know any of her horses other than what I've read about them. We all are entitled to our own beliefs... Beth - Original Message - From: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Hmmm.I asked to be unsubscribed to this list. Guess it hasn't been done yet.So I will reply to your e-mail: Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Carol Gjest
This message is from: Carol Makosky cmako...@sirentel.net Can we please put this issue to rest once and for all? Surely someone is doing something more fun with their Fjords now that fall is here. -- We live in the land of the free, only because of the brave. Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin, Home of Heidi, The Wonder Pony Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Gjest part 486
This message is from: Corinne Logan cori...@willowsedgefarm.com Seriously. I was going to keep my trap shut (Lisa, is that the right way to say that? ;) ), but come on... How long have you been a breeder of this magnificent breed of horse to put down another breeder, of how many years, for their decision? I cannot imagine ANY breeder - Norwegian Fjord horse, cat, dog, guinea pig, you get my point - not knowing when is enough for their own animals and it's time to let them go. Carol has been breeding our amazing Fjords for close to 30 years. They are part of her family and I can only imagine Fjord blood running through her veins. I think she would know when enough's, enough and cannot fathom that someone would second guess her decision. OK, I'm done. Lisa...? Corinne Logan Willows Edge Farm Bothell, WA 425-402-6781 www.willowsedgefarm.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com Jen, I hope you never have to make this decision. I have a 34 year old Fjord gelding who is still happily bouncing in for his bucket of mash and he still eagerly eats hay and bosses the herd of four.. I have this hope that when it is his time he will be happily running down to the little pasture I have and have a heart attack and sudden death, and I will not have to euthanize him. But that probably will not happen. Tears come to my eyes even after ten years thinking about when I took my 16 year old dog who had Doggy Alzheimer's and started going around in circles the night before. I had hoped SHE would just quietly lie down and go to sleep and die quietly a long time before I made the decision. It was soo hard. but I probably waited TOO long to make that decision. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where we had out first snowfall last night, 2 on the car, gone now and leaves still on the trees. This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Carol, I feel strongly that killing Gjest was wrong. I don't like using a public forum --like this list-- to tell people that Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Gjest part 486
This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Are you kidding Corinne? Are you done kissing Carol's ass yet, enough to LISTEN ? Carol herself said that Gjest was not ready to go, (he was healthy and in no pain) but that she wanted him to go when SHE was ready for him to go to avoid any problems his death would cause her if it came during the winter. So what if she has been breeding amazing Fjords for 30 years? We are not talking about that. We are talking about her killing him when the only reasons to do so were that he was no longer making her any money, and that she wanted to spend her winter in Florida without being bothered by the burden of caring for Gjest.It's time that you saw the killing of Gjest for what it was: a matter of money and convenience for Carol, and take the self appointed Queen of Fjords off her throne. You can admire her business acumen, You can admire her horses, but how can you say that those two items add up to a free pass when it comes to killing a horse that wasn't indicating he needed to die yet? GET REAL. Jen On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Corinne Logan cori...@willowsedgefarm.comwrote: This message is from: Corinne Logan cori...@willowsedgefarm.com Seriously. I was going to keep my trap shut (Lisa, is that the right way to say that? ;) ), but come on... How long have you been a breeder of this magnificent breed of horse to put down another breeder, of how many years, for their decision? I cannot imagine ANY breeder - Norwegian Fjord horse, cat, dog, guinea pig, you get my point - not knowing when is enough for their own animals and it's time to let them go. Carol has been breeding our amazing Fjords for close to 30 years. They are part of her family and I can only imagine Fjord blood running through her veins. I think she would know when enough's, enough and cannot fathom that someone would second guess her decision. OK, I'm done. Lisa...? Corinne Logan Willows Edge Farm Bothell, WA 425-402-6781 www.willowsedgefarm.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: I can count
This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Lisa, you are not being honest--you said that you are without words, yet you spilled many of them out just now!I have said many times, and I will say again: READ CAROL'S E-MAIL. In it she says that Gjest was healthy and in no pain. That is very different from prolonging the life of an animal that is suffering. How you jump from killing a horse that is fine, to assuming that I would prolong the life of an animal that is suffering, is beyond me. You are making ridiculous assumptions. Just because you like Carol, just because it is politically prudent for you to support her, doesn't mean that you need to defend her killing of Gjest. I am sorry for you that you have compromised your integrity this way. Jen On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:41 PM, pedfjo...@aol.com wrote: This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com the number of times on one hand, when Ive been without words. Looking for more fingers tonight. Scared Avoid Inconveniant Hardship are words SO not even remotely close to Carol that now I KNOW that you lack any understanding of her or for this situation. To every life, there is death. Even people, write out their wish's not to prolong life when their time comes. Everyone thinks about, and fears that they will not be able to speak up when that time comes. This is why we do Living Wills that make our needs and desires known. Animals count on us to figure it out for them. God help yours when their time comes. You will not see it I guess. Lisa Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Thank you Eunice for your support.If more people were willing to take the political risk of speaking out against attrocities like the one Carol commited, then I would be proud to be part of a list that really stood up for the animals they professed to love. But because almost no one has publicly condemned Carol for her killing of Gjest (although many have told me privately that they agree with me) I don't want to be part of such a list. If people care more about their political standing in the Fjord community than they do about the actual Fjords themselves, I want no part of this community. Thanks for the invite to stay on, but no thanks, Jen On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:04 PM, John Eunice Bosomworth bosomwo...@wightman.ca wrote: This message is from: John Eunice Bosomworth bosomwo...@wightman.ca Jen ... thanks for taking a stand and speaking out! If it had been anyone else (who is much less known) that had killed their beloved fjord, there would be very few people agreeing that it was the right thing to do. We need you to stay on the list! ~Eunice I could go on and on about why y'all try to support and condone her treatment of Gjest. I understand that many of you love and admire Carol. I understand that there are also political reasons why you want to publicly support her. What I don't understand is WHY your support of her must be BLIND to the immorality of what she did to Gjest. I guess you are having a difficult time emotionally handling the complexity of this situation, and feel that you must be loyal to Carol, even when she has committed an act that is wrong. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Hi Jean,yes, I know how hard it is to make the decision to have a vet assisted death for our beloved animals when they are suffering and we can't alleviate their suffering any other way. I feel for everybody who has had to do this. I have a wonderful friend who is 79 years old and a remarkable horsewoman. She had a mare that was suffering terribly. I begged her to humainly euthenise the horse. She couldn't afford to do it. So I called the vet, made sure he agreed that it needed to be done; He said that the horse needed to die years ago and it was cruel to keep it alive. I paid for the euthenasia because I wanted to give the horse the gift of release from her suffering. I had the county commisioner come dig a grave. I will not write publicly about my own animals and my journey with them through life and death. But all this is very different from what Carol did. She said that Gjest was in good health and experiencing no pain. He did NOT need a vet assisted death, because there was nothing bothering him. Carol said as much herself. Jen On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:56 PM, jern...@mosquitonet.com wrote: This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com Jen, I hope you never have to make this decision. I have a 34 year old Fjord gelding who is still happily bouncing in for his bucket of mash and he still eagerly eats hay and bosses the herd of four.. I have this hope that when it is his time he will be happily running down to the little pasture I have and have a heart attack and sudden death, and I will not have to euthanize him. But that probably will not happen. Tears come to my eyes even after ten years thinking about when I took my 16 year old dog who had Doggy Alzheimer's and started going around in circles the night before. I had hoped SHE would just quietly lie down and go to sleep and die quietly a long time before I made the decision. It was soo hard. but I probably waited TOO long to make that decision. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where we had out first snowfall last night, 2 on the car, gone now and leaves still on the trees. This message is from: jenframe jenfra...@gmail.com Carol, I feel strongly that killing Gjest was wrong. I don't like using a public forum --like this list-- to tell people that Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Corinne !
This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com what are you YELLING AT MEE FOR ? Dont make me come up there..; )Lisa Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
please Steve
This message is from: Carol Makosky cmako...@sirentel.net Steve, Please step in and put an end to this subject. It has really gotten out of hand and there is no good coming from it all by now. I'm hoping we do not loose many of the good people on this list. -- We live in the land of the free, only because of the brave. Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin, Home of Heidi, The Wonder Pony Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: plumg...@pon.net plumg...@pon.net I have killed two dogs. In both cases, I did it too late, after the animals were suffering (which I was only able to admit after the fact). I have also walked a colicking horse until she fell down and died. A beautiful, gorgeous, young Fjord mare. I have never seen another with as beautiful a trot, as beautiful a headshe was an Anvil's Acres horse and her breeder has also told me that she was just special. She had a twisted gut. We tried to get vet help, but we were in a very small rural area where emergency help was an hour away. We paid $400 to the vet to come out on a holiday weekend, twice. He was not a competent horse vet and was unable to tube her and really did no examination. We were given some drugs and left to our own devices in a vacation area we were visiting (LIKE NOVA SCOTIA!) We walked her all night in the freezing cold, on a gravel driveway. She was throwing herself down. I whipped her mercilessly to get her up, on the idea that rolling is not a good idea. We put a fly mask on her to keep her from scratching her eyes when she went down...in agony. In desperation we went to the farm family that was hosting us and asked for a gun and ammunition to shoot her if we felt we needed to. They complied, and showed us how to aim correctly so as not to miss her brain. We never did shoot her. Eventually, I now know, her gut broke,and the pain was relieved. At about 4 AM she put her head on my husband's arm and pulled him away from the other horses. He followed her with the lead. She headed toward an arena she had been in and dropped. Then she got up again and went down again and started her death throes. We had already called the incompetent vet again to try to get help. He arrived a few minutes after she died, so we had him do an autopsy. Big portions of her intestines were clearly dead. During the course of the ordeal, I called our home vet in desperation, he did not get enough information from me to tell me to just get her to a vet clinic...and besidesthe clinic was hours away. I e-mailed the Fjord list in the middle of the night, and got support from the early risers on the east coastand condolences from Karen McCarthy later on the west. I say all this because it is clear that Jen has absolutely no idea what can happen to a horse in a rural area. My horse died in agony. Gjest was at risk of that. On another list, one of the caring moderators just lost a horse to a twisted gut...the same way. No vet help could come fast enough to spare the horse. I am 62 years old and have seen a fair amount of death. I nursed my mother through 7 1/2 years of dementia, and then cared for her after she had a major disabling stroke. We gave her no food and water after the first days in the hospital(she could take neither by mouth...and they kicked her out of the hospital as soon as we said we did not want her intubated. ). We had to turn her every four hours to prevent bed sores, at which time she screamed in painI presume from the muscle contracture of the stroke. We did that every four hours for 13 days until she died. Once you have seen some of these things, you recognize that a loss of spirit is the beginning of the end, and it is time to take action to spare your loved one. In the case of my mother, I could not do it legally, and just did not have the courage anyway. But I can do it for a horse. Jen...when you have nursed a few people and animals through their deaths, come back and make your accusations again. Gail Russell I say: don't kill an animal now for the reason that euthenising it later may be a hardship on you. Enough. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
words
This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com Well. Without words does not mean without ANY words. Just ones that make sense of your post(s) for me, sorry. For the record.I am not politically prudent. Correct even. Ask Jeff. If its great I say it and if it stinks I pretty much run around holding my nose and screaming for someone to kill the skunk. Also for the record : I have met Carol once. Around 11+ years ago at Libby. Doubt she remembers. She put our picture in her book on Fjords, but said that she didnt know WHO the horse was ( Fair Acres Juli ) and WHO the people in the picture were. ( Jeff and I ) I have never quite forgiven her for that, as she properly identified every other stinking horse and human in the book. I SAW her at Winona, but we both were too busy to chit chat. Using the scale of killing animals / pets, that you profess..I have done it. Lots I guess. A 40 yr old Jack Donkey. The vet who knew him for at least 25 of them, cried with us. We killed him at home surrounded by his harum of jennys. A total rib bucket old pony mare I bought for 50 bucks in Perris, CA. being led down a street behind a station wagon full of kids. They threw in her saddle, which she was wearing and was worth around 200 bucks. She ended up costing me 3 X's that saddle in chow, teeth, worming and farriers. My vet said that she saw 30 a long time ago We killed her on a late fall day when she was fed ( a new thing for her ) fat, happy and loved. Cody ( 4 ) had named her Princess Di ' cause she was going to die soon We gave her 6 good months when it was said that she wouldnt last 48 hours. We killed our beautiful Dalmation, Siren ( named that because she couldnt hear sirens / DEAF as a rock ) after her hypothyroidism made her hair fall out for the last time. Huge doses of Pregnisone no longer worked. A pink and black spotted dog, she was a happy girl with that last carriage ride. Missing an eye also AND stone deaf when we rescued her from the Norco Animal shelter.if I see her picture I fall apart. A good girl. A great dog. I almost killed by Corgi, Chelsea, my constant companion of 16+ years, but I didnt get a chance to. She died at home. Smart girl to the endshe heard me make THAT appt. We killed our mutt Sonic, a year ago when her cancer ( already surgically removed once ) grew back with a vengence. Vet gave her 3 months. We gave her 2. She was with us for 12 years, a stray who walked up our driveway in CA. and was the BEST dog. I ,oss her every day still. We killed our beautiful grey mare, OH Verdig last month. She coliced horribly and even with extreme measures all morning, we couldnt control her pain. Didnt think she would make it to Las Vegas in the heat and going down despite drugs every 15 min. We killed her with an almost 3 month old colt at her side, knowing that HE might not make it either. He did. My sons cat, Miss Kitty is 17. She slept on his face every night from a one year old kitten who found us when she also walked up our driveway. No claws, loves every dog she ever met, waltz's up to junkyard pit bulls dragging chains that run by talk about 9 lives.shes ok, but getting skinny and a little slower, weaker. My son moved out to his own apt, and dispite his comming and going here every other day, she mourns his move. We will see. I may kill her this winternext spring.summer.fall Lisa Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: did I ever send this?
This message is from: laura fisher laura_fishe...@hotmail.com Hello Beth, I think I will take your advice to heart. when I get home I will take her back into the arena and try a walk and then a trot on the lunge line. I think that will go fine. I willl ride her in big/small/traveling circles all over the place and I will go around the poles (trot) and other obstacles so we don't go crazy with boredom. ...I am a little leery of trail riding but there IS a trail on the valley road that I have taken her on by myself- ( again, she did some testing, but not much) -and I think I should ride with a friend first before going it alone. Unfortunately we do not get cell phone service here, but that road gets lots of traffic (slow). The reason I am anxious to not use the round pen into the winter is that I live in a temperate rainforest and my pen will be under ground shortly. I CAN bring it indoors but it will eliminate all that cone/pole fun. If I have to I could move it in and then take it out when she has gained her balance and is a good girl...The round pen would turn into a 40 foot ( ten feet each side) instead of the 60 and I think the larger the circle for cantering the better. I am hoping that after enough circles while I am riding her and what not there will come a time when she will just break into a nice slow canter on her own. Wishful thinking? I used alot of ground work to get my Morgan to respect me. I just wasn't able to get us working together. I have had him for three years. He was a stud for five years before I bought him and just couldn't shake the dominaton thing. I have a trainer who comes in to ride him and I have just put him up for sale. He is too talented and beautiful and an advanced person needs to ride him. He loves always being given a challenge he can focus on. I wanted a Fjord because I hoped that I would not have to be constantly vigilent every time I want to ride her. PLEASE say this is true...I do love ground work and am looking forward to starting it., Elise is very stiff and I can tell she knows nothing about it. I use a little bit of everything. I am feeling so much better talking with you. I am not ALONE Laura Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:58:09 -0600 From: starfiref...@usa.net To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: hello again This message is from: Starfire Farm starfiref...@usa.net Hello Laura, Your problem is fairly common, simply because Fjords are so intelligent and many are not taught to lunge properly. Your idea is on the right track. You need to break down the act of lunging into smaller steps and teach her that what you really want is for her to stay in a circle around you. Let the canter not be the most important thing. Use small circles at first, just so she gets the idea about staying with you. Gradually work in larger circles, greater speed, until you are sure she understands and won't leave. Then maybe try for the canter. I would use the round pen, only for easier containment if she decides to leave you again. If she does leave, don't punish her, just start over and take even smaller steps. You did not say how old your mare was. If she is young, you must be very careful not to do too much of this work because it can damage developing joints. Good luck and have fun, Beth laura fisher wrote: This message is from: laura fisher laura_fishe...@hotmail.com I have had a problem lunging my fjord, Elise. I bought her from a woman that let her children ride her on trails. As a result, Elise learned that she does not have to canter. I thought starting on a 60 foot lunge line would remedy this, but instead she is so strong that when I ask her to canter she pulls away and the line is pulled out of my hands ...and I am a VERY strong person. I have tried lunging her in the 60 foot round pen but I do not think this is going to work. I am wondering if I should just do lots and lots of slow circles, some at a walk, some at a trot. ...But I really need some input . I want to get her cantering away but I want to do it right. This is very frustrating. She has a lovely slow trot. _ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPGpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_t ry bing_1x1 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f -- Starfire Farm Beth Beymer and Sandy North http://www.starfirefarm.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f _ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Dont worry about storage limits.
Re:
This message is from: sandra church minih...@hotmail.com _ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re:
This message is from: sandra church minih...@hotmail.com _ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPGpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: My reasons for posting about Gjest
This message is from: Russ and Laurie Lamb rll...@pioneernet.net Jen, you might want to re-read this part of Carol's message, though I doubt it will change your mind. #3 - I felt strongly that we had made the right decision with Gjest. He was 32 years old, and in good health. Good health for a 32 year old horse. However, despite our long-term efforts to keep him going, he was slipping physically, and just recently, he was slipping in spirit. -- It was the right decision for Gjest, but it was a horrible decision to have to make. It was horribly hard to let him go. --- As many people have said, keeping him alive would have been the easy way to go . . . for us, anyway. And just for the record, I owe no loyalty to Carol. And if you want off the list, you have to do it yourself. Laurie Lamb Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: did I ever send this?
This message is from: Starfire Farm starfiref...@usa.net Hello Laura, Yes, you sent it to the list. I don't know if you intended it to go privately or not. I don't have that much time for the e-mail list, so you'll have to excuse my lack of response. Sounds like you are doing good work with your horse. Good luck with her. Beth laura fisher wrote: This message is from: laura fisher laura_fishe...@hotmail.com Hello Beth, I think I will take your advice to heart. when I get home I will take her back into the arena and try a walk and then a trot on the lunge line. I think that will go fine. I willl ride her in big/small/traveling circles all over the place and I will go around the poles (trot) and other obstacles so we don't go crazy with boredom. ...I am a little leery of trail riding but there IS a trail on the valley road that I have taken her on by myself- ( again, she did some testing, but not much) -and I think I should ride with a friend first before going it alone. Unfortunately we do not get cell phone service here, but that road gets lots of traffic (slow). The reason I am anxious to not use the round pen into the winter is that I live in a temperate rainforest and my pen will be under ground shortly. I CAN bring it indoors but it will eliminate all that cone/pole fun. If I have to I could move it in and then take it out when she has gained her balance and is a good girl...The round pen would turn into a 40 foot ( ten feet each side) instead of the 60 and I think the larger the circle for cantering the better. I am hoping that after enough circles while I am riding her and what not there will come a time when she will just break into a nice slow canter on her own. Wishful thinking? I used alot of ground work to get my Morgan to respect me. I just wasn't able to get us working together. I have had him for three years. He was a stud for five years before I bought him and just couldn't shake the dominaton thing. I have a trainer who comes in to ride him and I have just put him up for sale. He is too talented and beautiful and an advanced person needs to ride him. He loves always being given a challenge he can focus on. I wanted a Fjord because I hoped that I would not have to be constantly vigilent every time I want to ride her. PLEASE say this is true...I do love ground work and am looking forward to starting it., Elise is very stiff and I can tell she knows nothing about it. I use a little bit of everything. I am feeling so much better talking with you. I am not ALONE Laura Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:58:09 -0600 From: starfiref...@usa.net To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: hello again This message is from: Starfire Farm starfiref...@usa.net Hello Laura, Your problem is fairly common, simply because Fjords are so intelligent and many are not taught to lunge properly. Your idea is on the right track. You need to break down the act of lunging into smaller steps and teach her that what you really want is for her to stay in a circle around you. Let the canter not be the most important thing. Use small circles at first, just so she gets the idea about staying with you. Gradually work in larger circles, greater speed, until you are sure she understands and won't leave. Then maybe try for the canter. I would use the round pen, only for easier containment if she decides to leave you again. If she does leave, don't punish her, just start over and take even smaller steps. You did not say how old your mare was. If she is young, you must be very careful not to do too much of this work because it can damage developing joints. Good luck and have fun, Beth laura fisher wrote: This message is from: laura fisher laura_fishe...@hotmail.com I have had a problem lunging my fjord, Elise. I bought her from a woman that let her children ride her on trails. As a result, Elise learned that she does not have to canter. I thought starting on a 60 foot lunge line would remedy this, but instead she is so strong that when I ask her to canter she pulls away and the line is pulled out of my hands ...and I am a VERY strong person. I have tried lunging her in the 60 foot round pen but I do not think this is going to work. I am wondering if I should just do lots and lots of slow circles, some at a walk, some at a trot. ...But I really need some input . I want to get her cantering away but I want to do it right. This is very frustrating. She has a lovely slow trot. _ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing^(TM) now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPGpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_t ry bing_1x1 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f -- Starfire Farm Beth Beymer and
