Re: HELP
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE INFORM ME HOW TO GET OFF THIS LIST! Thanks Anna Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Fjords
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi everyone: Just wanted to say, I still have Macguire for sale. HE is a 3 year old stallion. He is from Leik out of Hilda. He is under saddle and doing very well. I must sell him. I haven't a choice. Anyone interested, email me privately and I will email any info or links to his website with pics. Thanks Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Linda": I have no video available at the moment. Sorry anna From: "linda hickam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:44:42 -0400 This message is from: "linda hickam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is there anyway to get a video?.linda -- >From: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com >Subject: Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale >Date: Tue, May 23, 2000, 6:19 PM > >This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Linda: > >I am ASKING $4k for him. I will take less, I have to move him. > >Thanks >Anna > > >>From: "linda hickam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com >>To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com >>Subject: Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:29:52 -0400 >> >>This message is from: "linda hickam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>Anna...how much are you asking for him...could you tell me your web >>site >>again? >>-- >> >From: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com >> >Subject: Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale >> >Date: Tue, May 23, 2000, 12:28 AM >> > >> >> >This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > >> > >> > >> >HI All: >> > >> >I need to sell my Fjord stallion. He is a 3 year old, stands 14.1hh and >>is >> >still growing. He is quite a boy with LOTS of bone. He as a great >>pedigree >> >and a very willing, easy going, gentle temperment. He is a pet, not just >>a >> >breeding animal. He has loads of potential in dressage as well as CT. He >>is >> >brave and never questions anything. A truely wonderful kid. >> > >> >I need to find him the right place as soon as I can. I appreciate the >>help! >> >I have special circumstances that keep me from keeping him. I also have a >> >Haflinger stallion for sale. >> > >> > >> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com >> > >> > > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Linda: I am ASKING $4k for him. I will take less, I have to move him. Thanks Anna From: "linda hickam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:29:52 -0400 This message is from: "linda hickam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anna...how much are you asking for him...could you tell me your web site again? -- >From: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com >Subject: Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale >Date: Tue, May 23, 2000, 12:28 AM > >This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >HI All: > >I need to sell my Fjord stallion. He is a 3 year old, stands 14.1hh and is >still growing. He is quite a boy with LOTS of bone. He as a great pedigree >and a very willing, easy going, gentle temperment. He is a pet, not just a >breeding animal. He has loads of potential in dressage as well as CT. He is >brave and never questions anything. A truely wonderful kid. > >I need to find him the right place as soon as I can. I appreciate the help! >I have special circumstances that keep me from keeping him. I also have a >Haflinger stallion for sale. > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Grey Fjord stallion for sale
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> HI All: I need to sell my Fjord stallion. He is a 3 year old, stands 14.1hh and is still growing. He is quite a boy with LOTS of bone. He as a great pedigree and a very willing, easy going, gentle temperment. He is a pet, not just a breeding animal. He has loads of potential in dressage as well as CT. He is brave and never questions anything. A truely wonderful kid. I need to find him the right place as soon as I can. I appreciate the help! I have special circumstances that keep me from keeping him. I also have a Haflinger stallion for sale. Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Fjord for sale
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3 year old Fjord stallion for sale. By Leik out of Hilda. Very nice conformation, good mover, willing temperment. Built for sporting, not draft sort. Grey dun! Has been all over and done most everything. Very good on the trails, safe in traffic, and does tricks as well. This horse is a steal. Contact me for more info. Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lynn: I agree. I will quit with this discussion. I am a fan of promoting pureness of breeds, but I can't take tunnel vision. Sorry if I ticked anyone off!~ Anna From: "Lynn Mohr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: Re: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:12:32 -0500 This message is from: "Lynn Mohr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Olsen I'm becoming totally confused! If a fjord doesn't pass on good traits during breeding for a cross, how do they pass them on in breeding to another fjord? This whole thread is going no where, no one will change their opinion and tend to foster their position with threats of statistics that back their point. Where are all these facts? I believe we should quit this argument before feelings become hurt and it affects the board. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Cross Breeding
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> YES< it could. So could breeding bad PUREBRED Fjords. So what is your point against crossbreeding? THere are MANY poor purebred Fjords. THanks Anna From: "Larson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Cross Breeding Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:02:27 -0700 This message is from: "Larson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I was going to stay out of this discussion. I told myself repeatedly to stay out...Sigh...Wish I could keep my mouth shut. But I can't so: I do not want to see crossbreeds. It's a simple, mercenary reason. If someone owns or rides or sees a crossbred Fjord who does not have the temperament, willingness and people-orientation of its purebred relatives, they might, very easily, assume the crossbred gets its flaws from the Fjord side. What will that do to my Fjord promotions? It certainly isn't going to help me as a breeder. In that way, cross breeding can definitely HURT the purebred Fjord. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lori: I am not being pushy, just stating a point. The value of the purebred is in breeding as well as competition, the value of a cross in only competition. What I am trying to say is that they will do the purebred no harm. As far as the paragraph how is a breed considered pure if there are partbreds running around is ludicrous. A partbred can never be considered purebred! A purebred is just that, pure of its race, the part bred is a mixture. Anna From: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:19:50 -0500 This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anna Rousseau wrote: > > This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > AGAIN people. Crossbreeding cannot hurt the Fjord unless you decide to > register the offspring Okay. So bad example (the ruination of QH's and other breeds). But if it weren't rude to call someone rude I'd have to say you are being rather pushy and overbearing about the promotion of your ideas and ridiculing of everyone else's. How on earth can a breed be considered pure if there is a tribe of halfbreeds running around out there? And what makes you so sure that Fjord-crosses would be better at those activities than Fjords? Or better than whatever they were crossed to? The Fjord-crosses I've seen were extremely poor specimens, even though pure Fjords by the same stallion were nice Fjords. Lori __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Steve: That is correct. It was Justin Morgan. The Lippitt Morgan, a line of today's Morgans were saved from outcross by John Lippitt of VT so that they would not be "prettied" up by the infusion of Saddlebred and Arab as today's show Morgans have~! I can see why someone would want to preserve as he did and I have a stallion that is from that original stock for the reason of preservation and I love the original true Morgan type! Thanks ANna From: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" Subject: Re: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:33:09 -0600 This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lisa-- Wednesday, March 22, 2000, you wrote: > The Morgans started out with John Morgan, a 13.3 hand workaholic. > Versital, handy, well manered, a dream come true. Justin case it escaped everyone's notice. John Morgan? -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd & Skipper -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA The air of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears. --Arabian proverb __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debby: BUT , how may TB are NOT good horses in terms of temperment or have bad bone and otherwise would be a suitable horse to compete with? That is my point. The Fjord could bring the hottness down, and could add good bone to the TB and the Arab. Anna From: Debby Stai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:31:35 -0600 This message is from: Debby Stai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anna, what are the problems with the TB? I have one, he's a TB, I knew he was a TB when we bought him. He's built like a TB. He moves like a TB. I don't understand how a Fjord would improve a TB. I cannot imagine our TB being crossed with our Fjord. I don't see how this would improve anything about either breed. I do agree that there are some drafts, the Shire or Percheron, being crossed with Tb, Andalusians. There is a Spanish Norman registry I'm sure you've heard of, Andy stallion that is recognized by this registry to be crossed with a Percheron mare. Even in that, you have to be careful as its not a definite as to what you'll get, which I do understand that to be the case whenever you breed. But when you breed within the breed, aren't you more sure of what you'll get? We're very happy with our TB, my daughter is between first and second level dressage with him and he does very well and we can only hope for more out of him. There are so many horses out there, wouldn't it be better to go out and find something that will suit your type of riding rather than to crossbreed and not really know what you're going to get. We're not a breeding farm, what we get, we keep, they become family. We've been very fortunate to be able to find horses that can do what we ask of them for a decent price, its just a matter of taking your time and shopping around. If there is a problem with the TB, maybe it comes from nonresponsible breeding farms, just a thought. Debby Anna Rousseau wrote: > This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Lisa: > > The point was not to improve the Fjord. You are missing the point. I have a > Lippitt Morgan stallion as well. The Morgan people do cross their Morgans. > The point isn't to better or change the Fjord, it is to make sport horse > types better. We all know the problems with TB, this is just one breed that > the Fjord could improve on. And again, why would that hurt the Fjord. If the > registry does bloodtyping and DNA testing, how could the prepotency hurt > with the Fjord as well??? > > Anna > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > >To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > >Subject: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding > >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:21:15 EST > > > >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >In a message dated 00-03-22 19:01:25 EST, you write: > > > ><< The ultimate goal in breeding > > anything is to produce something better in terms of conformation, > >movement, > > and temperment. I think a Fjord stallion could better a lot of breeds > >of > > mares. Why is that wrong? Please, explain this issue to me, I hope that > >this > > information that I received is incorrect. Looking forward to that > >response. > > >> > > > > Hi Anna. > > > >Not sure if this is helping at all, but as a Stallion owner, who could > >be > >making my own personal money tree orchard by crossing a Fjord stallion to > >all > >my friends Quarter Horses..I must disagree wholeheartedly. There has > >been some elaquent posts on this subject so far, and its 1:40 AM here, but > >here gos. > >EVERYONE : > > ( Flame Suit in place, PLEASE dont get offended by the generalizations > >of > >my " other breed " list, just my own not-so-humble-opinions after 25 years > >of > >horse owning. ) > > > >The Quarter Horse people went after a change in the old style bulldog > >type > >years ago. They bred a wonderful horse to be 16 + hands tall, with feet for > >a > >pony yearling. I have seen many halter horses disapear into ? after their > >days of beauty contests had finished, and couldnt make one lap down the > >rail. > >Then theres that " improvment " with the genitic stuff that makes them have > >a > >3 yr. span of life. HYPP? > >( Confirmation ? ) > >The Paint folks ( we were there big time ) decided to improve the > &
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> AGAIN people. Crossbreeding cannot hurt the Fjord unless you decide to register the offspring Come on now!And no one is trying to better the Fjord breed. IT is what it is, you cannot register the crossbred anyhow so how could you possibly use it to better the breed. I am talking about crossing to make a sport horse type to show in CT, dressage or stadium jumping. Something that does not require papers anyhow. Now, how is this harmful? Purity of the breed should be maintained without question, this does NOT interfere with that. Anna From: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:59:10 -0500 This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lynn Mohr wrote: > I don't understand the argument that cross breeding hurts theFjord > breed. It's hard to explain, without sounding religious about it. But I've come to the realization over the years that North Americans tend to ruin horse breeds. When I was a kid in Pony Club there were two quarter horses in our barn. They were great horses! a mare and a gelding, 15 hh and 14.2, and their lucky owners were always in the top ribbons in every thing they did, eventing, dressage, hunter, gymkhana, etc etc. These two were always the best horses for hacking, fooling around bareback, and swimming in the pond. Very trustworthy. Almost 20 years later I went looking for such a quarter horse. Do you think I could find one? Nowadays they're all 16 hh or more, long thin necks, teeny weeny feet, and spook at their shadow. Ruined!! In the Fjordhorse we have an opportunity to "do right" by preserving what nature and careful selective breeders have given us. How could creating a bunch of half-bred Fjord wannabees possibly be good for the Fjord breed? - and others have said that these crosses invariably turn out poorly - so why bother? Lori __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: cross breeding
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ron: No one was talking about entering a Fjord show with a cross, nor were we trying to change your mind. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I say maintain your purebreds, I am very much for that and not infusing any other breed to "better" the Fjord. Keep it what it is and has always been. My point is for cross breeding for sport, what harm does breeding a stallion out mean? You can't register the offspring! Anna From: "Ron & Sherrie Dayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: cross breeding Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:25:23 -0800 This message is from: "Ron & Sherrie Dayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To all you cross breeders out there, I say ENOUGH ALREADY! Do you really know what you are talking about? We have been blessed with this magnificent animal and the very idea of breeding to anything but a pure bred Fjord should be completely out of the question for any responsible individual! This is a free country and you are free to do as you please but just keep in mind that economically your choice to cross breed is a poor one and if you are ever looking forward to entering into any of the Fjord shows in the U.S. you will need to show papers and you will be ousted from them on the spot. If you love the Fjord horse so much or claim to, why in the world would you want to mess it up! No need to respond to this post. I will never change my mind and instead of all this talk about cross breeding, why not try to improve what we have by doing some selective breeding within the pure breeds to refine and polish this wonderful breed we love. "Happy Trails" RD __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Cross breeding
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sherrie: YOu cannot generalize in such a statement. How can you say what each cross will definately look like? Only God has that power. How many Fjord crosses have you seen? Anna From: "Ron & Sherrie Dayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: Cross breeding Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:38:40 -0800 This message is from: "Ron & Sherrie Dayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This is to address the issue of crossbreeding that Anna raised. Crossbred Fjords are not an improvement to either breed that they're crossed with. I've seen Fjords crossed to Arabians, what you ended up with was a horse with a beautiful Arab type head, the Fjord neck & shoulders, large through the body on little tiny fine boned Arab legs, not an improvement for either breed. The Quarterhorse/Fjord cross produced a horse with the Fjord neck and heavier front end of the Fjord and lost all that lightning quickness of the Quarterhorse. Quarterhorses tend to have pretty good bone so there again, no improvement to either one. Fjords crossed to Welsh pony's don't improve either breed. We have friends that raise Welsh's and they're gorgeous all on their own, crossed to a Fjord they loose some of the refinement and action that the Welsh usually has as a purebred. In all cases of crossbeeding Fjords the one thing that doesn't get passed on to the other breed is the Fjord disposition. I have not seen a Fjord cross that created a "better horse" no matter what it was crossed with. The Fjord breed ends up getting a bad rap for a bad dispositioned horse that looks like a Fjord and tends to get passed off as "A Fjord" , not a part Fjord. Bottom line, crossing a Fjord to another doesn't improve either one. Sherrie Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lisa: The point was not to improve the Fjord. You are missing the point. I have a Lippitt Morgan stallion as well. The Morgan people do cross their Morgans. The point isn't to better or change the Fjord, it is to make sport horse types better. We all know the problems with TB, this is just one breed that the Fjord could improve on. And again, why would that hurt the Fjord. If the registry does bloodtyping and DNA testing, how could the prepotency hurt with the Fjord as well??? Anna From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Improving the Fjord Horse with X-breeding Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:21:15 EST This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 00-03-22 19:01:25 EST, you write: << The ultimate goal in breeding anything is to produce something better in terms of conformation, movement, and temperment. I think a Fjord stallion could better a lot of breeds of mares. Why is that wrong? Please, explain this issue to me, I hope that this information that I received is incorrect. Looking forward to that response. >> Hi Anna. Not sure if this is helping at all, but as a Stallion owner, who could be making my own personal money tree orchard by crossing a Fjord stallion to all my friends Quarter Horses..I must disagree wholeheartedly. There has been some elaquent posts on this subject so far, and its 1:40 AM here, but here gos. EVERYONE : ( Flame Suit in place, PLEASE dont get offended by the generalizations of my " other breed " list, just my own not-so-humble-opinions after 25 years of horse owning. ) The Quarter Horse people went after a change in the old style bulldog type years ago. They bred a wonderful horse to be 16 + hands tall, with feet for a pony yearling. I have seen many halter horses disapear into ? after their days of beauty contests had finished, and couldnt make one lap down the rail. Then theres that " improvment " with the genitic stuff that makes them have a 3 yr. span of life. HYPP? ( Confirmation ? ) The Paint folks ( we were there big time ) decided to improve the colored thing with years of overo to overo bloodlines. This has resulted in lethal white foals who live hours to days, then die a tragic death, as a result of genitic " improvments " Go figure. The Appy guys decided that color was not important or even required to register their horse( Chief Joseph is rolling over to be sure ) This has resulted in the last World Level Appy show, to offer 4 out of 5 World Champions without one spot showing. The 5th had some slight freckling around his bottom. They have also enjoyed the same HYPP and other genitic nightmares that alot of QH folks got. No improvment here Im afraid. ( LOVED the old appys with the big white blankets and leopard markings ) The Morgans started out with John Morgan, a 13.3 hand workaholic. Versital, handy, well manered, a dream come true. Having been good friends with one National Level Morgan trainer/ exibitor, I must say with their 17 hand tall, sequenced feet flying into the ring, and those Saddlebred-high-stepping-gaited hoter than a pistol nut cases for mindsshame shame shame. They did this to " improve " the breed BTW. Thank goodness there are " old style " Morgan breeders who are dedicated to bringing back this wonderful horse. I want one. The other ones fetch the big bucks though. My friends daughter just paid over 30,000 for a showey gelding. Gasp. And she cant even take him out of his stall for fear of instant self destruction. ( Movement ? ) The Arabs? Enough said. ( Temperment ? ) How about those Cross Drafts? Yep, a few make into the high level world of dressage, and eventing. How many? 30 ? 50 ? How many more are shipped to France from Texas in a can? 10,000 a MONTH. How many PMU foals does Canada and our own midwest send to slaughter? 1,000's a year. Sorry, dont see much need to breed any draft breed with such a glut of wasted adults and weanlings out there. Pegasis Rescue will ship, to your door, any Draft or cross draft breed foal for 750 bucks. Go order one up, colts, filly, Belgians, Shires, purebreds ect. They are out there. ** I cant see much room for improvment in our Fjords. Yes I see alot of room in other breeds. Thats why I dont breed them to my Fjords. Why mess with 2000 years of selective,often ruthless culling? I have what I want in my back yard. If I want something else, I will go buy it. Right after I have my head examined. Best Regards, Lisa Pedersen Cedar City, Utah __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> All of you that spoke up with concerns of Crossbreds being put off as purebreds... Does the registry you are in not bloodtype or DNA test? Anna From: "cnielsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:33:31 -0600 This message is from: "cnielsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anna, I don't want to insult but I think this country has enough horses that are cross bred-for example - look at quarter horse crosses - they are a dime a dozen where I live and they aren't nice ones-they are any two horses thrown together just to have a foal - and maybe making money on a stud fee. I'm no big breeder, but I would hate to see this breed ruined in crossing them with other breeds- this country has a tendency to do that with everything we get our hands on-just like the many breeds of dogs.If people start crossing fjords and breeding their half breeds then there goes the qualities we originally got into the breed for.a breed should be kept true for what they are-each serves its purpose- if it cant do what you would like-then find a breed that can come on listers I know we have strong opinions on this subject- just like the Zebra cross thing that was discussed awhile back. sorry this is so long Randi from Wisconsin - Original Message - From: Anna Rousseau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 4:09 PM Subject: Re: a question for the list > This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > 1) << The ultimate goal in breeding anything is to produce something > better in > terms of conformation, movement, and temperment. > > > There isn't anything better than a pure bred Norwegian Fjord. >> > > I disagree. There may be a cross that is more suitable for a certain > discipline than the purebred Fjord. What breeds would not exist today if > there was no crossbreeding allowed in any other breeds? That is very narrow > minded. That is like the Nazi's idea that only the light skinned, light eyed > type of people were with any intelligence or athletic ability. > > 2) < Why is that wrong? > > Because breeding a Good Fjord Stallion to a BAD mare of another > breed will most likely not produce a "Better" horse.>> > > Well, I said nothing about breeding a good Fjord to a bad mare of any other > breed. There are good mares of other breeds that would benefit from some > good Fjord characteristics. Every breed has some faults, cross breeding a TB > mare for instance with the Fjord can breed out some of the "hot" and add > more bone. This would make a better performance animal. > > I can understand the idea of keeping a breed pure for survival of the breed. > This breed however will not be hurt by crossbreeding of stallions. Other > breeds out there could use some of these characteristics. I think the Fjord > crosses would excell in many different areas which would in turn help > promote the Fjord horse, widening the market! Wake up people, half the sport > horses competing for this country in international competitions are cross > breeds of one sort or another. Why not promote your horses this way allowing > stallions to crossbreed? > > > Thanks > Anna > > >From: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > >To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > >Subject: Re: a question for the list > >Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:54:30 -0500 > > > >This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >At 09:21 AM 3/22/00 -0800, you wrote: > >>This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >>Dear list members: > >> > >>I am not a Fjord Association member. I have just one Fjord, I bought him > >>to ride and do breed promos. I was told the other day that the Fjord > >>association does not allow cross breeding and will pull papers on a horse > >>that is cross bred. > > > >If it is the "Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry" that your talking about then > >the answer is yes that is true. The NFHR does not allow > >crossbreeding. Here is the exact text of the rule: > >== > >In the interest of protecting the genetic purity and the highest standards > >of the Fjord horse, we will withdraw from the Norwegian Fjord Horse > >Registry any mare or stallion that is used for crossbreeding with another > >breed or species. Violators will have their membership suspended and will > >lose all membership priv
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lynn: That is my point exactly. I really do not understand this registry or the ideas of most of the members on the list. Like I have said, I can understand why not cross the mares, they are limited in numbers and the potential there could be harmful, but what harm does a Fjord stallion breeding other breeds of mares do? thanks Anna From: "Lynn Mohr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:55:56 -0500 This message is from: "Lynn Mohr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I don't understand the argument that cross breeding hurts theFjord breed. The result of the cross is NOT a fjord, it is a cross. It can not be registered and never will be. The fjord used in the cross is exactly the same horse it was before the breeding. How does this hurt the actual fjord breed? I'm not trying to argue with anyone, only better understand. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Meredith: Agreed. There would be good and bad in crossbreeding as far as conformation or temperment and movement would go, BUT I have seen some nice purebred Fjords and I have seen some VERY bad purebred Fjords. AS a matter of fact, I have had other people tell me that Fjords look like they are only good for Draft work, have a piggy temperment and to most people are not pleasing to the eye. It took me a long time to find the guy that I have. I did not buy him to breed, only to train for classical dressage and to do breed demos so that people that had the above ideas of Fjords could see their ideas were incorrect. I chose to have only stallions on my farm for riding because that is all I enjoy at this time. I did the breeding farm thing for years, I am tired of that road. I have the horses I have to enjoy and to bring awareness of other breeds to the forefront in my area which is isolated and not much in the way of horse other than QH, TB and Arabs. THanks Anna From: "Meredith Sessoms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: "FjordHorse-L" Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:39:20 -0500 This message is from: "Meredith Sessoms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >what harm is there in >breeding a stallion to other breeds of mares? The ultimate goal in breeding >anything is to produce something better in terms of conformation, movement, >and temperment. Anna ... we are very awake ... I am with those who believe this breed to be unique in looks and behavior; and in genotype too, we've recently found out. Fjords are very different from other horses and don't always cross well. I have seen some photos of very ugly Fjord crosses and some of nice Fjord crosses. But are the best results an improvement over either breed? What could you be trying to produce with a Fjord cross? A fabulous family horse? a handsome steady pony to compete in driving, do packing or to do farm work? a best friend and trail companion? a very handsome smooth moving mount for basic dressage that you don't need a ladder to get up on? What could you cross with a Fjordhorse to beat the real thing? At this point in time, I see no good reason to cross this breed with anything else, especially since there are many reports of cross-breds being passed off as pure-breds. Since the Fjord is so special, and I've heard that crosses do not necessarily pick up the wonderful Fjord temperament, I don't think it would be favorable to the breed to allow crosses. There are already hundreds of thousands of cross-bred ponies and horses out there that desperately need good homes ... pure-breds too, for that matter. If a related breed like the Freisian, or the Highland, or Fell Pony, or the Icelandic, or a draft breed grew genetically weak through small numbers or heavy linebreeding and they asked us to infuse their breed with a dose of the Fjords genetic strength (like the Pointers did for the Dalmatians in the '80's) I certainly could not see turning them down. >>><<< Meredith Sessoms >>><<< Soddy-Daisy. Tennessee. USA >>><<< Dorina & NFR Aagot __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lori: I do understand prepotency. I raise Iberian horses for sometime and they are very prepotent. The issue here is not to better the Fjord or to call a partbred Fjord a purebred. What I am saying here is that to use a Fjord stallion to other breeds of mares will not hurt the Fjord breed. That is my one and only point. The Iberian horse for instance has been bred since the 12th century, they are very prepotent to type, and their native stud books in Spain and in Portugal allow cross breeding for equine athletes. They do not register them as purebred. The Fjord horse though has been outcrossed says historians. They have been part of the melting pot for other breeds. How did this happen? Anna From: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:05:42 -0500 This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anna Rousseau wrote: > > I am not a Fjord Association member. I have just one Fjord, I bought him to > ride and do breed promos. I was told the other day that the Fjord > association does not allow cross breeding and will pull papers on a horse > that is cross bred. Well, I do not know if that is true or not, but I find > this ridiculous Dear Anna: The Fjord is very prepotent genetically. This means that a Fjord-cross will look very Fjord-like. The reason for that is that the Norwegians, by virtue of their geographical isolation and the fact they realized they had a good thing in the Fjordhorse, carefully protected the purity of the breed and did not outcross (with the exception of the Rimfakse incident). The Europeans have spent a lot of time and effort to keep the Fjordhorse purebred and to improve the breed, by evaluating the quality of all their horses and breeding the best to the best. They judge their horses on conformation, conformance to breed standard, and performance in a wide variety of activities. For North Americans to come along and think "we can do better" by outcrossing, thereby destroying the purity of the breed, would be a violation of the years and years of protection and preservation that the Europeans have devoted to this most unique horse. It would be a violation of the sacred trust and stewardship we have in the Fjordhorse breed. I don't really care if it would improve another breed, or if most of the sporthorses out there are crosses, or whatever. The purebred Fjordhorse has what it takes to go to the top in many disciplines, and for those disciplines that he doesn't, well, I'm sure there are breeds that do. I hope that makes sense. Lori __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jean: Yes, that was a little strong, but to say that the Fjord is better than all the rest, I do not think that true. There are many breeds, each independantly better for there own reasons. There is no need to start another group. I think it is fine for there to be a preservation group. I see the purpose in keeping the purebred Fjord mares for purebred breeding, the mares only have one foal per year, but how is it harmful to the breed for a stallion that is nice to cover mares of another breed? That is my question. I have spent my life studying many different breeds and I think quite a few are great breeds, but many are too specialized and should not be owned by the average owner, but to combine that those breeds with something like a Fjord for temperment and bone would make a phenomenal horse. Thanks Anna From: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:25:01 -0800 This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anna, there is nothing wrong with improving a breed but that is in the eye of the beholder. I think you are a bit strong in the"nazi" reference. Groups form for certain purposes. Nfhr is there to maintain the breed as it now is. Form your own group, "Fjords for the improvement of the quarter horse" Give those poor "improved" quarterhorses a neck that holds their head up and feet they can stand on. Or "Fjords for the improvement of Arabs." Give them girth and a soft temperament. But do not try to change an established group to fit your needs. You have a lot to offer I am sure. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes & Noble Book Stores __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 1) << The ultimate goal in breeding anything is to produce something better in terms of conformation, movement, and temperment. There isn't anything better than a pure bred Norwegian Fjord. >> I disagree. There may be a cross that is more suitable for a certain discipline than the purebred Fjord. What breeds would not exist today if there was no crossbreeding allowed in any other breeds? That is very narrow minded. That is like the Nazi's idea that only the light skinned, light eyed type of people were with any intelligence or athletic ability. 2) <> Well, I said nothing about breeding a good Fjord to a bad mare of any other breed. There are good mares of other breeds that would benefit from some good Fjord characteristics. Every breed has some faults, cross breeding a TB mare for instance with the Fjord can breed out some of the "hot" and add more bone. This would make a better performance animal. I can understand the idea of keeping a breed pure for survival of the breed. This breed however will not be hurt by crossbreeding of stallions. Other breeds out there could use some of these characteristics. I think the Fjord crosses would excell in many different areas which would in turn help promote the Fjord horse, widening the market! Wake up people, half the sport horses competing for this country in international competitions are cross breeds of one sort or another. Why not promote your horses this way allowing stallions to crossbreed? Thanks Anna From: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: a question for the list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:54:30 -0500 This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:21 AM 3/22/00 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear list members: I am not a Fjord Association member. I have just one Fjord, I bought him to ride and do breed promos. I was told the other day that the Fjord association does not allow cross breeding and will pull papers on a horse that is cross bred. If it is the "Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry" that your talking about then the answer is yes that is true. The NFHR does not allow crossbreeding. Here is the exact text of the rule: == In the interest of protecting the genetic purity and the highest standards of the Fjord horse, we will withdraw from the Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry any mare or stallion that is used for crossbreeding with another breed or species. Violators will have their membership suspended and will lose all membership privileges including registration, transfer of horses and any voting rights. The names of owners and horses will be placed on the suspended list. == The ultimate goal in breeding anything is to produce something better in terms of conformation, movement, and temperment. There isn't anything better than a pure bred Norwegian Fjord. I think a Fjord stallion could better a lot of breeds of mares. Why is that wrong? Because breeding a Good Fjord Stallion to a BAD mare of another breed will most likely not produce a "Better" horse. Please, explain this issue to me, I hope that this information that I received is incorrect. Looking forward to that response. These are my opinions only. If you want to get the official opinion of the NFHR then contact the President - Dennis Johnson. His email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: a question for the list
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear list members: I am not a Fjord Association member. I have just one Fjord, I bought him to ride and do breed promos. I was told the other day that the Fjord association does not allow cross breeding and will pull papers on a horse that is cross bred. Well, I do not know if that is true or not, but I find this ridiculous. I can understand the idea of not crossing mares as they can only produce one foal a year and this could harm the breed in the long run since they are not so abundant. On the other hand, what harm is there in breeding a stallion to other breeds of mares? The ultimate goal in breeding anything is to produce something better in terms of conformation, movement, and temperment. I think a Fjord stallion could better a lot of breeds of mares. Why is that wrong? Please, explain this issue to me, I hope that this information that I received is incorrect. Looking forward to that response. Thank you, Anna __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Fjord stallion for sale
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi there, I currently have a trained stallion for sale. He is the riding type, not heavy drafty. He is a 3 year old and currently 14.1hh and still growing. He is a super nice chap. Well minded, great on the trails and roads. He has been started in harness. He does very well on his recent goings in dressage. He is very collected, has great impulsion, very forward moving. Started on transitions, can do lead changes, etc. Just started in November of last year. Going very well. Ready to start in the show ring.Has been to breed expos for breed promos. Trailers well. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: stallion for sale
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi: For all of you that had expressed interested in my Fjord stallion, please eamil me back. I have new pisc of him now. I lost most of your addresses though. Thanks. He is a grey dun, by Leik out of Hilda. THe riding, not draft type. VERY NICE MOVER> thanks Anna __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Fjords for sale
This message is from: "Anna Rousseau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi all, I am fairly new to the list. I wanted to see if any of you may know of where I can market my Fjord stallion. He is a grey dun 2 year old. We have started him in harness , and he is going well under saddle, though not for a more than 15 -20min at a time. He is very eager, willing, and easy to get along with. He rides in mixed company, goes out in his paddock next to mares, geldings and other stallions with no problem. He is very laid back. He loves to go for rides in the trailer, handles easily for the vet, and stands like a gentleman for the farrier. He is a real dreamboat. I have to sell him though, we are moving and have no horse place. Let me know if any of you may know anyone interested. thanks Anna Baudoin __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
