Re: EPM
This message is from: Heather Baskey Hi Valerie The vets were dismissing EPM - which drove me nuts. They were so focused on Wobblers and were ignoring what was in front of them. The blood tests did test positive for EPM and they did medicate, but they were still focused on Wobblers without much substantiated evidence (suspicous looking radiograph, but nothing conclusive). I was very much frustrated. So much for taking Henry to one of the top vet schools in the country. Although my farm vet and I believed it was EPM (blood test positive, he got worse with medication, etc.) - the vet school was very zipped up about EPM and didn't focus in on that. So, I am afraid I don't have much information. However! my insurance adjuster did say that 2 years ago (2008) - they went though the summer with only a few claims of EPM. But the summer of 2009 they had a new case every week (which does show it is on the rise). She didn't recall any deaths from it - but I think Henry compensated so much (not faltering around humans), that was the downfall. He was always so careful around us humans, that we didn't pick up anything wrong until it was too late. He was always very stoic and never showed us any pain or discomfort. It breaks my heart to think he was compensating all this time. All the vets at the College were going on that EPM was way over-diagnosed and you should not dismiss other diseases. I felt helpless. EPM is getting a bad rap that it is over-diagnosed, so what happens to the horses that DO have it??? They were not very communicative about EPM at all. I left devastated that I lost Henry, frustrated with the lack of communication from the college and empty handed without answers. It left me so heartbroken that I really don't know if I could ever have another horse again. I asked Henry to trust me when we dragged him onto the trailer to go to the College (he was down in the field and couldn't rise) and he let us. I asked him to trust me as they put him in a sling (and he was such a good boy about it). I asked him to trust me to stay alone in the Isolation Ward (because it was Neurological - they put him in Isolation). I will never say "trust me" to anyone ever again. I asked for his forgiveness at the end. OK - rambled a bit there and I don't have any answers about EPM. Henry was the only one we know of affected at our barn. I did read recent research that it predominately affects horses aged 1 to 6 years of age. That the main culprit is the opossum, but other means of dispersion of sporocysts could include birds that feed on seeds lying in the feces of Opossums. Heather From: brass-ring-f...@juno.com brass-ring-f...@juno.com Heather - did the vets shed any light on how much EPM is in your area? Take care, Valerie Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
EPM
This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com Heather - did the vets shed any light on how much EPM is in your area? How is it carried there, opossums like here, or something different? Do they give you any idea of why Henry would get it and not the horses around him? I lost my Morgan mare in 2002 to EPM and I am always wondering the whys, hows, and whats. If it is too painful to reply, please don't, but it is such a curious and devastating problem I would like to know as much as I can. Take care, Valerie Columbia, CT Top-Rated MBA Online Earn Your MBA In 2 Years. No GMAT Required. 100% Online Program! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c56e256f2f8d0cecm03vuc Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Henry & EPM
This message is from: sandra church Hi-last August our 28 yr. old thoroughbred was diagnosed with EPM & I chose to give him the cheaper medicine ($135 a bottle that lasted about 3 weeks & he went through 3 bottles) instead of the really high priced medicine. I found it a challenge to give it to him on an empty stomach then he wasn't supposed to eat for an hour but we somehow survived & he's doing OK. His rear is still weak and there were times that I thought he could easily fall over. He didn't handle his spring vaccines well so I'm only giving him only a rabies vaccine next year...he'd never reacted to vaccines before and we've owned him since 1992. This information probably isn't that helpful since it wasn't my fjord that contracted EPM. Someone recently told me that there's a new treatment for EPM that's not costly & it's a common product but my memory is shot...I think it was my farrier so I'll call him tomorrow & ask for the info. Good luck with Henry. Sandra _ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
EPM
This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com Hi Heather - I had a Morgan mare with EPM 9 years ago. I have kept up with the latest and greatest, which is not much. It is still next to impossible to diagnose. We went with the symptoms. The cheap blood test will let you know if it is negative, it is not EPM, but if it is positive, it only means the horse has been exposed - I have heard as high as 80% have been exposed. Obviously, only a very few go on to EPM. We did not do the spinal tap; I think it has fallen out of favor. There is NO conclusive test. There is a Yahoo group for it. At the time they were pretty mean, but had A LOT of knowledge. The medicine Marquis had just come out - at $1200 for a course. Luckily my daughter worked for a vet and I got it for $800. The mare did respond to this, but when it was done, she relapsed and we did a second course. She had laminitis from near the beginning. After the second course, she foundered. The vet said we could deal with EPM, we could deal with laminitis, but both was a lot. She was euthanized. It is going to be very terrible for you to see Henry deteriorate. Because the parasite affects different areas of the spinal nerve and brain, you do not know which symptoms he will have. This also affects whether he can recover or not. And how much. No one knows why one horse gets it and another does not. I beat myself up for sending my mare to Vermont for breeding that summer (didn't take); maybe if she had stayed home she would have been fine. Any kind of stress will not help. No trailering, no vaccinations, no worming, do nothing that will stress him. I would suggest the Yahoo group for information. I hope this helps. On a good note, no other horse that has lived here (11 now) have had it. I have had old horses and baby horses and immune challenged horses, yet my healthiest 11 year old mare was the one to get it. I don't know. Valerie Columbia, CT TODAY: iPads for $123.74? ALERT: iPads are being auctioned for 95% off today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c4856204a9e99889am03vuc Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It was with a heavy heart that I read of Soren's battle with EPM. I lost my 11 year old Morgan mare to the disease 6 years ago and not a day goes by but that I do not think of her and the 6 months we spent fighting it, only to loose. We did 2 rounds of Marquis. I joined the EPM group for a couple of years and learned a lot. Mostly I learned you can't tell which horse will "get" it, which horse will respond to treatment, which horse will be affected in what way. There is no preventative. I am very sorry you have had to go through this and wish you the best. Valerie Columbia, CT Let great B to B marketing solutions propel your brand to new heights! Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3norRoeszop8XXbRvtsWzfIRCs8GlFYCXjFMaNyHZ9bInMou/ The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: stumbling horses and EPSM and what about EPM?
This message is from: debora seely <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi, Here's another thought. How about EPM? -- the protozoan carried by possums. I trained a horse that was falling all the time and he turned up with a severe case of EPM. If you can cross a horses legs and he just leaves them there for a minute or so then, he may be infected. Check with your vet. I have lived in Missouri and Michigan and there have been horses all around me that have had it. One of mine ended up with it from the vaccine. The treatment was expensive but that horse came out of it. (I don't recommend the vaccine. Four horses at my barn came down with it after the second vaccine.) Deb Seely Rose or Murph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This message is from: "Rose or Murph" Hi, a couple people brought up stumbling. I have been doing research from safergrass.org. It focuses on a EPSM Equine Polysaccaride Myopathy,which has been found to be common in draft horses.(fjords and percherons). It can lead to tying up, stumbling, ect. It is an inability to metabolize carbohydrates. I have a percheron who has stumbled many times during my rides, to the point of going down. I have since retired him as he is getting older, and due to his stumbling problem I do not feel safe anymore cantering or trotting on him. As described in some Dr Valentine's articles, some of the symptoms can go unnoticed in a horse who is not physically sick, but seems reluctant to pick up the canter, won't pick up his feet, does not back up easily,and is lethargic under saddle. My horse also had the hard thick crest in his neck. I had my hay analyzed for sugar, starch, and protein content. It came out in the recommended allowances for a horse exhibiting signs of EPSM. I have noticed, my gelding seems to play more than he ever has, running bucking. His crest has decreased in size and has become softer. He willingly picked up his feet for me the other day, he felt much more flexible, which is a huge sign that the diet is working. I am going to continue on with it, and see what happens. For those of you who think your horse has a stumbling issue, go to the safergrass.org website and read about EPSM. Fjords are at a higher risk for EPSM because they fit the profile for the disease. I have a young Fjord that I am feeding very carefully. The website is very interesting as it talks about plants, how they store sugar, what temps they store the most sugar. It talks about optimum hours of the day to let your horses graze. I did not have a lot of faith at first but I am starting to see results with my gelding. The most important key is to keep the fjordies weight under control, and know how much sugar, starch and protein is in your hay. Hope this helps. Rosemary in Roy Chilly and clear tonight The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean, so sorry to hear of the battle with EPM. It is a puzzle of a disease, and heartbreaking to watch. I lost my 10yr old Morgan mare to it 4 years ago and think of her all the time. She had dreadful laminitis because of it, which was more what brought her end than anything else. Good luck. The Marquis does work for a lot of horses; I hope he is one of them. Valerie Columbia, CT
Herald and EPM Comments
This message is from: Beverly Weston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Sheri, Sorry for being so long winded with this, but wanted everyone to know this is a horrible disease and something to be concerned about. I had a hanoverian mare that was one of the first horses to live thru EPM in CT. This was almost 14 years ago and most Vets didn't even know how to treat it or what to look for. Luckily, at the time I had one of the best vets in Conn. when I called him and told him she couldn't walk and she was being held up by the cement wall in her stall, he and a few of his staff members came to the boarding facility where she was being boarded. At the time, I couldn't get up to see her everyday..she was about 45 minutes from me at a boarding stable, I was working a 40 hour work week and I was 81/2 months pregnant!! It took 12 people to literally carry (they wouldn't let me help for some reason!!) her down the aisle and into one of the grooming stalls. The first thing my vet did was pump her full of DMSO thru an IV for 4 days/24 hours a day to get the swelling down. I slept on a cot in the grooming stall next to her for 4 days (being 81/2 months pregnant was uncomfortable enough~try it for four days on a cot in a barn!!). The whole ordeal was horrible. The vet did suggest that I think about putting her down because she was so far along with the disease. I didn't have the heart, in one way I felt it was my fault for not visiting more often and catching it early on, I felt I owed it to her put up a fight and that is what we did!! After the four days of IV she had improved and was actually standing straight up instead of on an angleShe was put on a 6 month combo. pack of drugs to try to rid her of the disease completely. I honestly can't remember the cocktail of drugs they used back then but they seemed to work pretty well. She was one of only two horses that had actually lived thru the EPM in the state back then. My vet warned me that EPM is truly never gone from the horses body (killed, so to speak). He told me I needed to understand that it could flare up again. We had to keep close watch on her for the remainder of her life. He said doing blood work may not show the disease but it could still be there. He also told me the neurological damage was almost impossible to measure. He did tell me I could get back to riding as soon as I was ready after the baby. When I finally did get back to her, I will tell you myself she was never the same horse again. I had a champion hunter and a solid 2nd level dressage horse, who at home was schooling 3rd level. When I returned to riding, I had a horse who was VERY sore backed, Very uncomfortable to ride, her gaits had gone down the drain and she swished her tail horribly she was never relaxed again to have someone on her back. She was not able to travel in a straight line, which might sound odd but she always had her tail cranked and she would travel concave or convex all the time. The neurological damage was evident, so from that point on I never jumped her again, I felt it wasn't fair to do that to her so we stuck with dressage but had to start at the bottom of the barrel. I had a 2nd level horse getting great scores turn back in to a training level horse barely finishing a test without going bonkers in the ring from me riding her. After a few shows I decided enough was enough and retired her. She was never ridden heavily again, A friend of mine who owns an estate in Virginia outside Washington D.C. adopted her as her lawn ornament and kept her in her heated barn with her top hunter/jumper horses to live out her life. She died at age 28 from what the vet's called neurological "shutdown" her brain got tired of sending out signals to the rest of the body. After an autopsy (at my request) they did find traces of the EPM virus in her brain and spine. I don't mean to sound depressing or to upset you. I think you should just really keep an eye on it from here out. I am sure that the advances in 14 years time have come a long way against attacking this horrible disease and that your horse will be just fine I will keep my fingers crossed and my hopes up that they figure out what exactly it is. On another note, I received my Herald here in CT. and it is wonderful!! I loved it. I didn't even notice the NFHR minutes weren't there!!! And by the way, it's not the end of the world folks, just a bump in the road. There are many things and many people worse off right now in the world and I think missing the minutes truly isn't that big of a deal. I am sure if you need or want a copy of them someone would be more than happy to email or send them snail mail to you. :-) Have a great day and enjoy the warmer weather, Beth Gerst President Northeast Fjord Horse Association
EPM - sorry
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Mel - I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your mare from EPM. I lost my 11 year old Morgan mare 2 1/2 years ago to this awful disease. Despite all the money (2 rounds of Marquis, etc) and care in the world, you cannot save them. Please don't try to second guess yourself if you should or should not have tried to save her. She may have needed the time herself to know it was hopeless. EPM is a dreadful roller coaster of a disease and false hope is a big part of it. Finally you realize there is no hope and you do what has to be done. My deepest sympathy, Valerie Pedersen
Re: EPM-long
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Zephanie ... What an interesting post from you. And, your dad...what a guy:) I remember talking to you a couple years ago at the fjord show about your mare and her allergy to flies. Did you ever get a fly sheet for her? I have an all body sheet that I could bring to the fjord show if you want me toyou could try it.actually, I have two styles. Let me know and I'll throw them in the trailer. See you soon..oh ya.I love your nametotally unique:) I love names that are a little different:) PS Say hi to your mom :) Linda Lottie All Things Fjord & More! In a message dated 7/13/2004 1:11:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Derrice Skow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >This message is from: "Derrice Skow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hello everyone, my name is Zephanie Skow, and I have a 7 year old >Norwegian Fjord Horse Mare (Fair Acres Petra) in Fairmont, MN. I received >Petra for a Christmas present in 1997, I was 9 years old, and she was my >first horse. About a year later she started having problems, I don't really >remember what they were, and at times I choose not to. She started being >very hard to turn, stumbling, and dragging her feet. She wasn't eating the >way she was supposed to either. Finally things got really bad, and she had >a hard time standing. We took her to a vet in Sherburn, MN (Shirley >Kittleson, at Goldmount) who is well known for her work with horses. While >we were going through town taking Petra to Goldmount, she fell down in the >trailer, I don't remember, but my parents didn't know if she'd live to make >it to the about ½ hour drive over there. Petra had a spinal tap done, and >it was sent to Kentucky. The results came back, and tested positive for >EPM, this was a fear of mine, because a large number of horses diagnosed >with this disease never live, but then at least we knew what the problem >was. EPM is a devastating disease, is stands for Equine Protozoal >Myeloencephalitis. Horses get it from eating possum droppings (if you see a >possum on your land, please try to get rid of it.) it affects there >neurological system, some horses lose their muscle mass, are unable to use >sides of their bodies, have trouble turning, dragging of feet, the list goes >on. Fort Dodge had come out with a dug to use against this disease, but >after talking with one of the Fort Dodge people, I would not recommend it, >because they said your horse can still get the disease, but when you go for >a test, it will show up negative, because it covers it up. I don't remember >what the name of the drug was. We brought Petra back home, with an >expensive vet bill, and treated her with lots of drugs, sorry I don't know >the name of them, as I was younger and didn't really know what was happening >to my horse. My dad is a veterinarian, but hasn't worked on horses for >years, he's getting better now after dealing with this disease, and another >20 year old horse starting to show his ageJ He's told me many times that >when Petra came back home, he went down to where she was boarded at, and >found her flat on her side, unable to get her up. He thought for sure we >would lose her. He has some machine, which runs off of waves, and he rubs >his finger on a plate, with a sample of hair from the person, along with a >drug in a can, and he rubs his fingers until he feels a stick, that tells >him how many doses the person needs of the drug. He did this with Petra >with B12 (it's a life saver, and so is he) he found that she needed huge >doses of B12, doses never heard of giving to a horse, because she needed to >get more red blood cells. Petra was also found to be anemic. I never knew >he did this until later, but he went down to see her everyday and injected >her with B12. This all happened during Christmas, and my birthday, so you >can image how a little girl felt, not understanding what was happening to >her horse, and not doing fun things with one of her best friends; praying >every night to God to please make her horse better, and that all she wanted >for her birthday was to have her horse not be in pain any more. Many months >later Petra regained her strength, and then I started riding her. > > Well the rest is history, today mostly because of the knowledge of my >father, Petra is fat, bucking and running around in the pasture. > > The only thing I can think of that really affected her, and that you >would notice maybe today, is that she is shorter than most fjords I think, >so maybe she was stunted during that year. Petra also seems to be allergic >to flies, and loses her hair, and I don't know if that has anything to do >with it
EPM-long
This message is from: "Derrice Skow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everyone, my name is Zephanie Skow, and I have a 7 year old Norwegian Fjord Horse Mare (Fair Acres Petra) in Fairmont, MN. I received Petra for a Christmas present in 1997, I was 9 years old, and she was my first horse. About a year later she started having problems, I don't really remember what they were, and at times I choose not to. She started being very hard to turn, stumbling, and dragging her feet. She wasn't eating the way she was supposed to either. Finally things got really bad, and she had a hard time standing. We took her to a vet in Sherburn, MN (Shirley Kittleson, at Goldmount) who is well known for her work with horses. While we were going through town taking Petra to Goldmount, she fell down in the trailer, I don't remember, but my parents didn't know if she'd live to make it to the about ½ hour drive over there. Petra had a spinal tap done, and it was sent to Kentucky. The results came back, and tested positive for EPM, this was a fear of mine, because a large number of horses diagnosed with this disease never live, but then at least we knew what the problem was. EPM is a devastating disease, is stands for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis. Horses get it from eating possum droppings (if you see a possum on your land, please try to get rid of it.) it affects there neurological system, some horses lose their muscle mass, are unable to use sides of their bodies, have trouble turning, dragging of feet, the list goes on. Fort Dodge had come out with a dug to use against this disease, but after talking with one of the Fort Dodge people, I would not recommend it, because they said your horse can still get the disease, but when you go for a test, it will show up negative, because it covers it up. I don't remember what the name of the drug was. We brought Petra back home, with an expensive vet bill, and treated her with lots of drugs, sorry I don't know the name of them, as I was younger and didn't really know what was happening to my horse. My dad is a veterinarian, but hasn't worked on horses for years, he's getting better now after dealing with this disease, and another 20 year old horse starting to show his ageJ He's told me many times that when Petra came back home, he went down to where she was boarded at, and found her flat on her side, unable to get her up. He thought for sure we would lose her. He has some machine, which runs off of waves, and he rubs his finger on a plate, with a sample of hair from the person, along with a drug in a can, and he rubs his fingers until he feels a stick, that tells him how many doses the person needs of the drug. He did this with Petra with B12 (it's a life saver, and so is he) he found that she needed huge doses of B12, doses never heard of giving to a horse, because she needed to get more red blood cells. Petra was also found to be anemic. I never knew he did this until later, but he went down to see her everyday and injected her with B12. This all happened during Christmas, and my birthday, so you can image how a little girl felt, not understanding what was happening to her horse, and not doing fun things with one of her best friends; praying every night to God to please make her horse better, and that all she wanted for her birthday was to have her horse not be in pain any more. Many months later Petra regained her strength, and then I started riding her. Well the rest is history, today mostly because of the knowledge of my father, Petra is fat, bucking and running around in the pasture. The only thing I can think of that really affected her, and that you would notice maybe today, is that she is shorter than most fjords I think, so maybe she was stunted during that year. Petra also seems to be allergic to flies, and loses her hair, and I don't know if that has anything to do with it. If anyone is going to the fjord show in Blue Earth this year, we'll be there, don't be afraid to come by and visit! Petra isn't the most well trained fjord in the barn, but she has the best disposition for one of your best friends. Sheri I know how you feel, there doesn't seem to be hope is sight sometimes, but keep investigating this disease, keep asking questions, and keep praying to God. My prayers are with you, and Red.
Red and EPM.
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sheri - So Sorry to hear about your beloved Fjord. Where are you located and what is EPM? I am fairly new to horses and have not learned all of the alphabet soup. Of course you and Red will be in my thoughts. Warmly, tamara On Friday, July 9, 2004, at 07:52 PM, Sheri E. Kane wrote: This message is from: "Sheri E. Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi friends, It appears that my Redford has EPM. You may remember that I wrote to the list concerning thrush,,, the sugardine treatment. He had a slight case of thrush. After it was treated Red still showed lameness. I had the farrier and then the vet come out right away. He was on lay--- off for 1 1/2 weeks and he was still very sore in the front right shoulder. I died a hundred deaths watching the vet shove him around and around only to see Red trip, stumble and stagger. After her examination Red looked drugged and couldn't even stand in the cross ties. He kept yawning and leaning like he would fall over. He actually fell over 1 time during the exam,, flat to his side and there he lay..?? The vet demanded that we take him to Univ. Madison Teaching College immediately!!! We couldn't leave till the next morning but we got there and fast!!! Our vet thought for sure it was neurological. The teaching college was very impressive and Red was very calm and cool. One of the college students said that she and her family had 3 fjords and 1 was just like Red,,, very playful and curious. Her Mom shows dressage and they had purchased a stallion from Green Valley Farms. Wish I could remember her name I was sort of a basket case at the time. Red is probably a 1 1/2 out of 5, worst case EPM. The Dr. thinks we caught it very quickly and with the new drugs 1 to 2 months of paste type treatment may bring 70% of the population up 2 grades on that level. My daughter lives in NC works at a QH show barn and says that they had a pricey QH treated immediatly that healed 100% and still shows well on the circuit. The trick is that 70% of the horse population show improvement. The Madison vet explained that the % does not show the average age, length of time after onset. etc. Red is only 7 years old. We took Red to Madison on Wednes. this week. Today is Friday and still no blood test results from them. They only took blood. We didn't want spinal tests, too risky. 50% of all horses in the US will show positive in the blood for EPM whether or not they ever "get" the disease. In the blood and in the spinal cord/brain are two different things. After showing signs of the disease,,, the parasite has entered the spinal fluid. The new drugs will kill the organisms living in the horse, but if they have created too much damage already the success rates of course go down. Early treatment is the key, we hear. As far as we can tell Red has shown signs for a maxium of 3-4 weeks. Strss can bring on the disease if the horse already has the organism in its blood. The Madison vet told us today, on the phone, that it could take 1 week to get blood results from Kentucky. Our concern was if 1 more week goes on, those little buggers have 1 more week to play with Red's body. The Madison vet has sent a tube of drugs to our house for 1 week to start treatment. The drugs have a very safe history and cause very little damage. He says, some dirareaha... spelling. He is to remain in a stall for the 1 month.. he will be outside in a smaller paddock. They don't even want him to be hand walked,,, blood flow I guess. After 1 month of treatment he should show .. really good improvement. If not,,, we go 1 more month maximum. We are praying for recovery!!! You have heard my positive talk... Now I want the negative. I am a positive person and pray alot... but.. I am also a realist. They say the "new" drugs are the trick. I would like some feedback from you guys if you have anything. Red is a pleasure horse. trail rides, pleasure driving.. and therapeutic work for people of all ages. If he can't be a show horseWHO CARES!! I want a safe and fun horse,,, thats ALL! Please give me something, anything. I have cried as much as 1 person can. I will maintain hope no matter what. If treatment fails, I will consider letting Red go to a loveing family to be a pasture buddy. My husband is a 52 year old engineer, laid off for over 4 months now and we cannot afford to keep him. Prayers would be wonderful for you people wanting to do something wonderful for us. THANK YOU in advance. sheri and red
EPM vaccine
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The EPM vaccine is of dubious value, or so I have heard. Again, I urge anyone interested in this subject to look at the EPM area of http://www.meadowherbs.com . This is a protozoa we are doing battle against, not a bacteria; that is why the effectiveness is in doubt. While I give my horses all the vaccines my vet recommends, and although I have had a horse die from EPM, I will not give this vaccine. Valerie
EPM Vacine
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Has someone already mentioned that there is an EPM vaccine? Many horses in my area have had this vacine without any problem. I would suggest a rabies vaccination as well. I think it is almost impossible to make sure possums and other critters stay away from the horses, so a vaccination program might bring some peace of mind.
EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Bonnie - please get rid of the possums as fast as you can. They are the intermediate hosts for EPM, and the protozoa they carry goes into your horses' brain and spinal cord, with awful results. Horses can ingest the protozoa when they eat hay, water, etc where the possum has urinated or defecated. It is shed into the hay/water at this time and ready to go on to its last host - your horse. I lost my Morgan mare to EPM last April, after spending thousands of dollars trying to make her well again. We never had much of a chance, as she foundered big time from the disease, as well as experiencing numerous major neurological symptoms. After 5 months we gave up. If you want to learn more, go to http://www.meadowherbs.com and click on their EPM info center. I belong to their email group and know more than I ever wanted to about EPM. Get rid of the possums! Valerie Columbia, CT
Re: EPM
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Valerie I live in opossum infected area. I always go out and help the dogs do in the unfortunate dumb "possums" that they catch. There are people here who will not buy local hay fearing infection so they buy from east the mountains where they also have possums! If it isn't one thing, it is another. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Jean - Marquis is Bayer's new drug for EPM. This protozoal disease attacks the spinal cord and brain of the horse and is carried by opossums. It is a hard disease to treat because of the "blood brain barrier" that protects the brain, and does not let a lot of drugs in. The horse is diagnosed by noticing neurological symptoms, as well as a blood test (positive if the horse has EPM or has been exposed, so you don't know which). An expensive and often painful spinal tap is sometimes done. If it is positive, the horse has EPM, unless the tap was compromised by a little blood in it. It is all very depressing as it can return often, whether by reinfestation or relapse. Like malaria, there seems to be no exact end to it. My Morgan mare Blaze is only 10 and was a very athletic and happy individual until last October. She did one round of Marquis and then another in January when neurological symptoms returned. Most distressing and varies horse to horse, but mine was almost sitting down at times as she didn't know where her back feet were. At this time she appears better and not in pain, but not exactly right either. Time will tell I guess. Besides the expense, Marquis is an easy to administer paste that horses seem to really like the taste of, so that's nice. Valerie
Re: EPM Vaccine
This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> millcreekfjords wrote: > Our vet is recommending the EPM vaccine this year. He avoided it last year > because it was so new new but feels it's worth giving this year. Does > anyone have an opionion on the vaccine? The following information is from the University of Michigan's March 2001 newsletter: "Should I Use the New EPM Vaccine? Some veterinarians and parasitologists have serious concerns about the new EPM vaccine that will soon come out on the market for horse owners. Mainly, these concerns center on the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. Although 890 apparently normal horses were given the vaccine with only a low number of side effects, there was no testing done to see how a horse with a history of previous EPM reacts to the vaccine. Therefore, we have no idea of how a horse with Sarcocystis neurona either with or without active disease will react to the vaccine. Will there be autoimmune disease? Will there be exacerbation of low-level disease? We dont know. Additionally, no tests were done to determine whether the EPM vaccine would actually work to protect horses against the parasite. At this time, it is difficult to test the efficacy of vaccines for Sarcocystis neurona in horses. There are no test systems worked out that can provide a useful answer about the efficacy of a new vaccine. So once again, we do not know whether this vaccine will work. More research needs to be done to make this possible. We do expect that some people will decide to try the new vaccine in their horses. Unfortunately, unless they participate in the study organized to examine the effects of vaccinating horses with the EPM vaccine, we will not learn much from their experience. However, we will make every effort to disseminate information about any possible adverse effects or positive results regarding the new vaccine in subsequent issues of this newsletter." The second paragraph should be of concern to anyone contemplating using the vaccine. They do not know if it works! Remember that if you do vaccinate your horse he will then test positive for EPM antibodies through serum and probably cerebral spinal fluid - these are currently the only ways to diagnose EPM. Therefore, if your horse develops EPM symptoms, and you had vaccinated him previously, you have no way of diagnosing what's wrong. Developing a vaccine to protect against a protozoa is extraordinarily difficult. If it was less difficult, they'd have a vaccine for malaria in humans by now. EPM and malaria are caused by a protozoa in the same family. I don't think this vaccine has a conditional licence in Canada, but if it did, I wouldn't use it. My horses are not guinea pigs. I think Fort Dodge is trying to make a quick buck off fear of EPM in horse owners. Shame on them. Lori A.
Re: EPM Vaccine
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I posted a warning a month or so on this list about the vaccine. I will not be promoting the vaccine myself. The equine practitioners are really upset at Fort Dodge for putting this vaccine on the market. There is no proof that this vaccine works. Fort Dodge is just profiting from the fears of horse owners. Even though we have protested it, Fort Dodge went behind our backs and is promoting this vaccine directly to horse owners. Giving the vaccine will make any blood testing for EPM on your horse useless as it will then test positive. Whether to vaccinate your horse with it is between you and your vet. I'm sure using it will make Fort Dodge's and your vet's wallets very happy. I myself can not ethically promote it. Steve White, DVM Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
EPM Vaccine
This message is from: "millcreekfjords" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Our vet is recommending the EPM vaccine this year. He avoided it last year because it was so new new but feels it's worth giving this year. Does anyone have an opionion on the vaccine? Thanks! Tammy & Frank Mill Creek Fjords
Re: Silly Question on EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/9/01 10:09:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > That's not a silly question at all. I have been asked that many times. > > Thank you very much, Steve. That puts my mind at ease. With all the other contagious things I have to worry about at a boarding facility, that disease was not one I wanted to be faced with. Kate in CT owned by Baldur the wonder fjord graduate B pony clubber MysticPonyClub egroups moderator ARIA certified riding instructor
Re: Silly Question on EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kate, That's not a silly question at all. I have been asked that many times. The horse is a dead end host. This means that once the horse picks it up, the cycle is ended. There is no transmission to other horses or any other animal. This is because the horse is not in the natural life cycle of the protozoa. Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
Silly Question on EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a really stupid question. I was only vaguely following the discussion of EPM and the vaccine and all. So please forgive me if this was covered. A horse in my barn has had a reoccurrence of EPM. I never really worried about the disease until it was in my own backyard. I understand how the disease is passed from opossums and wildlife to horses. I understand the life cycle and symptoms. What I can't find out is if it is passed from horse to horse in any way. Like manure contact, insects, flies...is it airborne? Or will it die once it leaves the equine hosts body? THIS is the stuff I can't find. Like I said, stupid question probably, but with the wealth of info on the net I couldn't find that one piece of information. Thanks in advance! Kate in CT owned by Baldur the wonder fjord graduate B pony clubber MysticPonyClub egroups moderator ARIA certified riding instructor
Re: Steve's advice/EPM
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sandra, > BTW, why has this information about cats being kept so quiet? Probably because they don't want to start a panic and have everyone destroying their cats. It has not been shown that cats will transmit EPM to horses. Who knows where they will find it next. Just practice good barn management.. Keep grain in covered trash cans, not open bags. Also, try to keep your hay stored where it won't be used as a litter box for opossums, raccoons, cats, etc. (I know, very difficult) and cover with tarps. > I've read where vaccines for WNV are being developed and don't > researchers know less about WNV than they do about EPM? No. WNV has been around for a long time and the life cycle has been worked out. In general, it is easier to make a vaccine to a virus than a protozoa, so I expect that they will have a WNV vaccine before long. Now that the virus has hit the United States there is good economic incentive for the companies to produce a vaccine. Sad but true that that is what it takes to get things done. Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
Re: Steve's advice/EPM
This message is from: "sandra church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thank you for the advice concerning the EPM vaccines. Considering that this vaccine is being marketed without the latest discovery (that the domestic cat can be used as the experimental intermediate host) being considered...well, someone's asking for more ill horses and more lawsuits (IMHO). BTW, why has this information about cats being kept so quiet? I don't want them eliminated (I love my 6 felines) so maybe their part in the life cyle of EPM needs to be researched much more before the news gets out there and cats start disappearing. I've read where vaccines for WNV are being developed and don't researchers know less about WNV than they do about EPM? I have a frozen woodpecker (that I keep forgetting to toss out) that the state lab was not interested in testing for WNV. My friend has a hawk in her freezer...same story because the lab is ONLY testing crows. A positive crow was found about 10 miles from me (all these birds were discovered last fall) so I know WNV is here and we're dreading the return of hot weather. This could really affect the horse industry. Last fall, my 3 year old mini was put down after suffering horribly with seizures. I had a narcopsy (sp?) done. After one week, the lab diagnosed "probably EPM" but after two weeks, the lab diagnosed "actinomycosis". No one has been able to explain to me how he caught a cow disease which is extremely rare in horses. Anyone out there familar with cow diseases? A friend who was a meat inspector for years said that he would come across cows with this "circling disease" and the animal would be immediately destroyed. I haven't been able to enjoy a steak since talking to him. Didn't mean to go on and on but it's incredible what our horses can be exposed to even on the most meticulous farms. Time to go give them a hug and hay Sandra from Va. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: Vaccines and EPM vaccine
This message is from: "Reena" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks for the heads up on this this Steve reena > > Soon everyone will be seeing ads about a new EPM vaccine from Fort Dodge. > Think very hard before using this product. Talk to your veterinarian > carefully about it. The equine veterinarian community is very outraged > at Fort Dodge for doing this. There is absolutely no proof that this > vaccine works and if you want to test for the disease in the future, the > vaccine may cause a false positive. The main benefit from this vaccine > is that Fort Dodge's stock will go up. > > Steve > > Steve and Amy White > Prairieholm Farm > Waterloo, Nebraska >
Re: Vaccines and EPM vaccine
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Soon everyone will be seeing ads about a new EPM vaccine from Fort Dodge. Think very hard before using this product... The equine veterinarian >community is very outraged at Fort Dodge for doing this... There is >absolutely no proof that this vaccine works...The main benefit from >this vaccine is that Fort Dodge's stock will go up. Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska Steve, Don't worry! I had a rough enough time with Ft. Dodge (re. my post about vaccine reactions & subsequent re-imbursement settlement.) We will NEVER use their products again if I can help it. From what I can see, most of the cost of vaccines & meds is used towards keeping their legal funds and insurance pumped up and ready to go. Sad... Karen McCarthy Great Basin Fjords Carson City, NV _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: Vaccines and EPM vaccine
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peg, I hope by conservative you don't mean you don't vaccinate as often. I think if you compare horse vaccinations with dog, cat or human vaccinations you are comparing apples and oranges. I've seen some nasty outbreaks when owners let their guard down some and don't keep up with their vac. program. Especially if you are taking horses to shows. Yes there can be some rare side effects from some vaccines, but the benefits far out weigh the risks. Soon everyone will be seeing ads about a new EPM vaccine from Fort Dodge. Think very hard before using this product. Talk to your veterinarian carefully about it. The equine veterinarian community is very outraged at Fort Dodge for doing this. There is absolutely no proof that this vaccine works and if you want to test for the disease in the future, the vaccine may cause a false positive. The main benefit from this vaccine is that Fort Dodge's stock will go up. Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
Re: EPM
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For those of you that may puzzle over this EPM thing, this is the protozoa that comes from possum fecal matter and possibly birds may also transmit it or be part of the life cycle. It causes muscle deterioration and attacks the nervous system. Major calamity! The new drug can get results in at least 28 days and sometimes sooner. It is called NTZ. Steve may help us with what that stands for. Up until NTZ, horses might or might not respond to months of treatment. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes & Noble Book Stores
EPM, EPSM
This message is from: Sam & Sue Banks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks Dr Jacobsen for adding some thoughts on these diseases. My friend who got me started doing dressage got a warmblood last year. About a month ago he started having lameness/weakness problems and was checked several times by her vet. Last week the horse went in to be tested for EPM, and, thanks to this list and learning about EPSM from another subscriber, I told her to print up the material at the web site someone else posted and have a muscle biopsy done at the same time. Her horse has always had something she called "shivers" (I'd never seen it before) and apparently EPSM can sometimes cause that as well. Her vet had heard of EPSM but did not know much about it. Since this is more of a quarter horse or TB area, not drafts, he had not come across any cases that brought this diagnosis to mind. The exchange of information available with the internet is incredibly valuable. I have not heard the results of the tests yet. The web site is http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet/ You can also search for more web sites using Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy in your search engine. Sue Banks, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
