Re: Linebreeding & inbreeding
This message is from: "Lisa Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Roberta, Line breeding concentrates the genes. It does not dilute them. When you line breed you are using similar familial genes. Thus possibly doubling up on the same trait. Lisa Wiley Turnabout Portuguese Water Dogs Connecticut State Director Ponies With Purpose Corresponding Secretary FASTeam http://www.myturnabout.com
Re: Linebreeding & inbreeding
This message is from: "Lisa Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Carol, Thank you for answering my question. I can understand the feelings on inbreeding but linebreeding is going back to related ancestors. I would not think there are enough Fjords to totally outcross everytime. Linebreeding is also a valuable tool in finding out what the strengths and weaknesses may be. Since it concentrates the genes some. It is not something that can be used without studying pedigrees and knowing the lineage. You can get the same problems by outcrossing. I would not think the gene pool in this breed is large enough to have the diversity you would need to avoid genetic problems. As far as dogs go. Putting puppies down is not a viable option. We see more genetic defects from those who do not linebreed and do not understand the pedigrees. The key is knowing what is behind your dog. Sometimes the knowing can be the most valuable tool. By outcrossing every time you do not know what your dog carries. Lisa Wiley Turnabout Portuguese Water Dogs Connecticut State Director Ponies With Purpose Corresponding Secretary FASTeam http://www.myturnabout.com
Re: Linebreeding & inbreeding
This message is from: "Warren Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Carol and I totally agree with this one. To line breed dilutes the gene pool, which can cause a multitude of seen and unseen issues, current and future. Not worth the risk besides not being accepted by the NFHR. Roberta
Re: Linebreeding & inbreeding
This message is from: "Carol Riviore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.beaverdamfarm.com Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet, Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 Tel:(902) 386-2304 Fax:(902) 386-2149 Carole Rivoire, author of THE FJORDHORSE HANDBOOK, only book in English on the Fjord breed, available from Beaver Dam Farm, $36.95 US includes P&H http://www.beaverdamfarm.com/book.htm " Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia --- Lisa Wiley asked me this question . . . . This message is from: "Lisa Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Carole, Could you please explain the following statement? Why would line breeding or inbreeding cause these problems anymore than outcross breeding? If the problem is in a line it is there doesn't matter how you use it. The worth of a Fjordhorse depends on many many things, the first one being his LINEAGE. -- If he or she has a screwed up pedigree --- linebred, inbred for instance --then in my opinion, he has very litle value because you don't know what lurks in his genes that may cause serious trouble in his and your future. -- He may look OK, act OK now, but may go blind at ten years of age -- Or something else equally devestating. Lisa Wiley Turnabout Portuguese Water Dogs Connecticut State Director Ponies With Purpose Corresponding Secretary FASTeam http://www.myturnabout.com ~ Well, I'll try in simplistic, layman's terms. There must be someone else on the list who could explain scientifically. Every animal and human has weak and strong characteristics in his genetic makeup. If an animal is inbred meaning he's the result of a stallion breeding his mother or daughter, then the weak genes get multiplied along with the good genes, and this multiplication can be disasterous to the physical and mental health, soundness, and longevity of the resulting offspring. -- Whew! That's as scientific as I get! -- The NFHR does not allow inbred horses to be registered. This includes father to daughter matings, mother to son matings, full sibling matings, and half brother to half sister matings. It's a recognized fact in breeding all animals, and humans, that breeding closely related individuals causes mental and physical problems. -- I know it's done frequently in dog breeding, and I don't agree with it at all, but at least with a litter of puppies, the dog breeder may be able to destroy the malformed ones. -- At least those that are recognizable at birth as not correct. -- With the long gestation term of horses, and the fact that only one foal is born at a time, as well as the cost of breeding horses, the results can be much more significant. Regards, Carol Rivoire
I'm BAAACK!! and Linebreeding, Inbreeding
This message is from: Steve McIlree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OK kiddies. The Hall Monitor is back on duty! I returned to Omaha from my extended visit to Las Cruces last Friday, and I just got my Internet service in Omaha restored today. So I'm catching up on my E-mail, and I'm happy to see you've been good while I was out of touch. Actually, I'm glad to see the Inbreeding/Linebreeding thread that's started, because that addresses exactly what I wanted to throw into the still cooling Crossbreeding subject. It strikes me that the Fjord breed in North America is one in which there has been some very close breeding two or possibly three times in the past 150 years. The time when the heaviest inbreeding would have taken place is the Rimfask/Njaarl (sp?) incident. No account I've seen mentions just how many mares were in the pool from which the breed was rebuilt, but the fact that there was just one stallion, means that there was some very close breeding necessary for several generations. Please remember that this happened fewer than 100 years ago. Another period when close breeding was a necessity would be the early years of the breed on this continent when there was only a limited number of stallions available. And I would speculate that there was probably some inbreeding done in the mid-1800's when the Norwegians mostly successfully limited the colors of the breed to shades of dun. Given that there has probably been quite a bit of inbreeding in the modern North American Fjord horse it is certainly a tribute to the vigor of the original stock that, so far as we know, we aren't dealing with any bad results. We should also thank those who had the foresight in framing the NFHR rules to forbid further inbreeding. In any breed that has much close breeding in its history, calculating accurate inbreeding coefficients becomes a job for computer software rather than pencil and paper, but it is something that perhaps should be additionally considered in deciding pairings for breeding. -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd & Skipper -- Omaha, NE/Las Cruces, NM, USA Then we began to ride. My soul smoothed itself out, a long-cramped scroll freshening and fluttering in the wind. --Robert Browning(1812-1889)
