lunging
This message is from: Debby miss.am...@earthlink.net I use to like John Lyons some years ago, many years ago. I'm not so much a fan anymore. I know I'll get flack but I'm not a fan of Parelli nor even of the guy from down under. I don't like the concept of throwing ropes at horses or playing games with them from the ground. I watch my horse when it is moving around me in a circle as I'm not in there just to have my horse run around me...I want to see how he or she is moving. I like to do lots of transitions within the gaits and transitions from gait to gait. I change it around, not using the same spot. I've never understood having them run so much, to the point that they are practically gasping for air. I've seen Clinton Anderson do this alot. If its the horses job to keep running until you tell him otherwise, is he doing it out of fear? I don't know. I've just seen alot of it and I don't care for the look in the horses eyes. I prefer soft voice, soft eyes... My opinion. Debby in Tx Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: lunging
This message is from: Heather Baskey cavy_l...@yahoo.com The whole point in the Circling Game (Parelli) is for this to NOT happen. In the Circling Game you are in neutral watching for Rhythm Relaxation (key two points) and it is much more than a circle. It can be a circle, a Figure 8 (same send/draw), or travelling circles, or circles with obstacles. There are many variations. I will send Henry off in a Circle and in the process throw a Trailer in his path - and whoosh - there's a nice trailer load ;-) I play the Circling Game at Liberty now. IF my horse was so stressed, he could very easily leave (huge arena to escape in). If you have the rapport with your horse, he will stick with you. My job is to make the game interesting enough for him to want to stay. Especially, with the type of horseanality my Henry is - I have to be riveting enough as a Leader so he wants to be with me (versus making him be with me). In summary - I want Henry to anticipate what I am going to ask next in the Circling Game, versus him running around in Circles, assuming this is the behaviour that I want. I have more problems with people sending/chasing their horses around in circles to wear them out prior to riding them. Now, that's stress. Heather --- On Mon, 3/8/10, Debby miss.am...@earthlink.net wrote: If its the horses job to keep running until you tell him otherwise, is he doing it out of fear? I don't know. I've just seen alot of it and I don't care for the look in the horses eyes. I prefer soft voice, soft eyes... My opinion. Debby in Tx Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
speaking of lunging and leading....
This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com Remember not to use a chain loop at the end near the horse however. A neighbor of mine had taken the chain and doubled it back to the halter. The horse had its head down grazing, stepped in the loop, and broke her leg. Valerie Columbia, CT Home Improvement Projects Improve your home. Click for products, services, and project ideas. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=54RW0Z8_8HZCk8uOrPGiMwAAJ1DoZB7TN1OB7dhFT6MgUtS2AAYAAADNAAAShAA= Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: speaking of lunging and leading....
This message is from: Heather Baskey cavy_l...@yahoo.com Most definitely common-sense should prevail at all times. Dragging reins, chains on lines would not be my cup of tea. My horse stepping on his lead line, is not a concern. When/if he does, he either (a) moves off it, or (b) if it continues to drag with him, he will automatically stop and look at me - demanding that I fix it. We then play backwards/sideways/forwards/backwards, etc., until the rope is off his leg. I would rather have my horse calm when he steps on his rope, such that it is never an issue. A friend of mine always panics when her horse steps on the rope and thus, her horse panics as well. Heather --- On Mon, 3/8/10, brass-ring-f...@juno.com brass-ring-f...@juno.com wrote: From: brass-ring-f...@juno.com brass-ring-f...@juno.com Subject: speaking of lunging and leading To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Received: Monday, March 8, 2010, 10:32 AM This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com Remember not to use a chain loop at the end near the horse however. A neighbor of mine had taken the chain and doubled it back to the halter. The horse had its head down grazing, stepped in the loop, and broke her leg. Valerie Columbia, CT Home Improvement Projects Improve your home. Click for products, services, and project ideas. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=54RW0Z8_8HZCk8uOrPGiMwAAJ1DoZB7 TN1OB7dhFT6MgUtS2AAYAAADNAAAShAA= Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f __ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Barn birds, lunging, games.
This message is from: pedfjo...@aol.com Hi List. For barn bird problems ( its $%^*...@^ starlings here, we love the swallows and bats ) there are a few things that you could do. They sell these little spike strips at any large Hardware store that you put on their perching places. They use them at Sea World ( * big ones ) also to help keep the large evil shore birds from stealing everyones lunch at the outdoor resturants. When the birds cant perch, they move along. The other thing to try, is to put long hanging sparkle things in the doorways. I have heard that old, used CD's work great. Hang them at different heights. Any shop that sells wind socks, chimes, kites will have a bunch of fun shiny flappy stuff. I love to train our horses to walk in and out of the barn with the socks running and blowing over them.great tool to keep them thinking and de- spook training for those stray plastic bags that jump up and attack us while out and about. Plastic owls did not work. We got 2 owls. Ok, now I have a question. Heather, if you want to try and explane it to me please give it a try. Or anyone who understands this concept. You said, stepping on a lead line is not a concern I agree. Get that. Its then mentioned that if the line continues to drag, he will automatically stop and look, demanding that I fix it. Got it. No problem with that. When our horses look to us to fix stuffit is a good thing. I do not want them thinking for themselves so much, as in our driving horses. Thinkers do not make good driving horses. I want them to look to US, for trust and that if we say GO through scary water hazzards, over man-hole covers, or past monsters like running cows, clowns with balloons or loose pigs ( been there OMG ) they do not question, only that if we say it, it will be so, and that we will keep them safe. I do not understand the game of backwards / sideways / forwards / backwards, as far as helping much of anything. I must say that someone just this week sent me a video of what appears to be this game. It was hard for me to watch all 4 + min. of it, I must say. The saint of a horse did not understandand the human spent all 4+ min. basically yanking his face off with a lead rope to get that space. Over and over. BAM. BAM. BAM, backing the horse, pulling it sideways. If the horse looked to or approched the human with his head, BAM. The horse kept looking to the human to fix it but clearly did not know what the human was looking for. The horse did not kill the human and I was surprised. There were plenty of times watching this abuse, that I was sure that a well placed cow kick was about to occur. If it had been a few of mine, esp. with stallions, the human would be dead. Someone is going to get hurt.so Im asking to please explane this game Lisa Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Barn birds, lunging, games.
This message is from: Gail Russell g...@zeliga.com One does not have to slam the horse around to play the game that is being talked about. If you watch heather's videos, that is clearly not what she has done. The do learn how to yield their hindquarters easily, and to step under themselves if the rope handling is done correctly. Gail Someone is going to get hurt.so Im asking to please explane this game Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Barn birds, lunging, games.
This message is from: Heather Baskey cavy_l...@yahoo.com Step one step back. Off the rope? nope ... rope still there. OK - step up two steps and then maybe a sidepass? ... oh look! rope is now free. If rope is not freed after attempts such as this, I will untangle - but ... I will try yielding Henry in whatever direction I think it is possible to untangle the rope. It is done slowly with subtle communication and I ensure it is VERY friendly. My rapport with the boy is EVERYthing. I am the biggest marshmallow on the planet and asking a horse to yield in any direction should be at the slightest and most subtle of suggestion. I will only increase my energy, if I am being ignored (and even at that, it certainly is not like the example of the extreme that was mentioned). Heather --- On Mon, 3/8/10, pedfjo...@aol.com pedfjo...@aol.com wrote: Ok, now I have a question. Heather, if you want to try and explane it to me please give it a try. I agree. Get that. Its then mentioned that if the line continues to drag, he will automatically stop and look, demanding that I fix it. I do not understand the game of backwards / sideways / forwards / backwards, as far as helping much of anything. __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: speaking of lunging and leading....
This message is from: Carol Makosky cmako...@sirentel.net The only upset my Heidi has when stopped by a foot on her rope is that she can't reach more yummy grass. Now to add more fuel to the fire and another topic. Heidi is my only horse and has been for the last 12 years. She talks to us all the time even when I had another horse for a year. She does have 3 pigs to live with in the summer, but that is it. She lives pretty much in the front yard so to say and watches us all the time when we are in the house. She is also a great watch dog and alerts us to whoever is coming in the drive. Heather Baskey wrote: This message is from: Heather Baskey cavy_l...@yahoo.com Most definitely common-sense should prevail at all times. Dragging reins, chains on lines would not be my cup of tea. My horse stepping on his lead line, is not a concern. When/if he does, he either (a) moves off it, or (b) if it continues to drag with him, he will automatically stop and look at me - demanding that I fix it. We then play backwards/sideways/forwards/backwards, etc., until the rope is off his leg. I would rather have my horse calm when he steps on his rope, such that it is never an issue. A friend of mine always panics when her horse steps on the rope and thus, her horse panics as well. Heather --- On Mon, 3/8/10, brass-ring-f...@juno.com brass-ring-f...@juno.com wrote: From: brass-ring-f...@juno.com brass-ring-f...@juno.com Subject: speaking of lunging and leading To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Received: Monday, March 8, 2010, 10:32 AM This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com Remember not to use a chain loop at the end near the horse however. A neighbor of mine had taken the chain and doubled it back to the halter. The horse had its head down grazing, stepped in the loop, and broke her leg. Valerie Columbia, CT Home Improvement Projects Improve your home. Click for products, services, and project ideas. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=54RW0Z8_8HZCk8uOrPGiMwAAJ1DoZB7 TN1OB7dhFT6MgUtS2AAYAAADNAAAShAA= Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f __ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f -- God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses. R.B. Cunningham Graham Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin Home of Heidi, The Wonder Pony Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: speaking of lunging and leading....
This message is from: Heather Baskey cavy_l...@yahoo.com Indeed! LOL!!! Henry gets more frustrated that he cannot reach the next blade of grass, versus ac - stepped on my rope! Heather --- On Mon, 3/8/10, Carol Makosky cmako...@sirentel.net wrote: This message is from: Carol Makosky cmako...@sirentel.net The only upset my Heidi has when stopped by a foot on her rope is that she can't reach more yummy grass. __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Lunging/Circling ... etc. lines ... etc ...
This message is from: Heather Baskey cavy_l...@yahoo.com I do not follow my horse, or turn with him after the ``send``. It is his responsibility to maintain gait, direction and look where he is going. I come out of neutral for transitions and change of direction only. I do not worry about him stepping on his rope (whether it be 12`, 22`or 45`). Heather - I've seen some people lunging and allow the lungeline to go over their head, not following or turning with the horse, taking their eyes off of the horse as it goes around them. Never did that nor understood it. __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Lunging/Circling ... etc. lines ... etc ...
This message is from: Gail Russell g...@zeliga.com I went to a John Lyons clinic a couple of years ago. He had with him (for sale) a John Lyons protégé-trained horse. He put a bridle on the horse, with reins and had him doing various things in the roundpen. While John was talking, the horse was sniffing around on the ground, and the reins were soon dragging on the ground. Everyone in the audience was on the edge of the seat, worrying about the horse stepping on the reins, just inches away from the bit. John was unconcerned. His theory was that the horse was trained to deal with such things. If his head were trapped down, he would just hold it down until rescued. Gail ? I do not worry about him stepping on his rope?(whether it be 12`, 22`or 45`).? ? Heather Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Lunging/Circling ... etc. lines ... etc ...
This message is from: Carol Makosky cmako...@sirentel.net So what is the big deal if a horse learns that stepping on the thing attached to his head means stop or move it's foot off. I guess people are not interested in a rein getting broke. That I certainly understand. I leave a lead rope attached to her halter all the time when she is doing lawn mowing duty in the summer and she steps on it all the time, but knows to move her foot off in order to continue grazing. Gail Russell wrote: This message is from: Gail Russell g...@zeliga.com I went to a John Lyons clinic a couple of years ago. He had with him (for sale) a John Lyons protégé-trained horse. He put a bridle on the horse, with reins and had him doing various things in the roundpen. While John was talking, the horse was sniffing around on the ground, and the reins were soon dragging on the ground. Everyone in the audience was on the edge of the seat, worrying about the horse stepping on the reins, just inches away from the bit. John was unconcerned. His theory was that the horse was trained to deal with such things. If his head were trapped down, he would just hold it down until rescued. Gail ? I do not worry about him stepping on his rope?(whether it be 12`, 22`or 45`).? ? Heather Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f -- God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses. R.B. Cunningham Graham Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin Home of Heidi, The Wonder Pony Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
free lunging
This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com Speaking of lunging, I am teaching my 12 yr old Fjord mare to free lunge. I already taught the younger smaller smarter one before she left. This mare is the one who had foot problems this spring, and now she is doing very well and in a normal shoe. The vet wants her exercised. But not out of the ring, and not on her. And I can't walk her because I have an ankle joint going. And not in small circles. All I can think of is free lunging. We have the small sized dressage ring enclosed by a fence, which is also her turnout area now since she has had foot problems. I thought about what motivated her, food and moving away from whips, so took out a pocket full of teddy grahams and the lunge whip. She already knows how to lunge and the voice commands. So all she has to do is walk or slowly trot in a large circle around me and come in if I ask her, for a cracker, then go out again. We had a few false starts, where she goes away, but she knows where the crackers are and now she knows what she has to do to get one. I do not follow her, she has to come back and get in formation. So far I am quite pleased with us. She is getting some exercise, I am hardly moving, and there is nothing prettier or more powerful looking than a Fjord going around you with you having full control (kind of!) and not a stitch on her. Valerie Columbia, CT Click now and choose from a selection of top performing bonds! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTIy7dJXQshEaat8GN9iVGGBKJRNrJHGrnUKydIVdqvg9nedZbHBSI/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
lunging
This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com I have something to add about lunging. I have found that when working with Morgans, they can often ratchet up during lunging, just the opposite of what you expect and hope. Instead of calming down, they get more excited, and of course Morgans can go on forever, so there is no tiring them out. The Fjords on the other hand, get lunged mostly in the spring after the winter off, a few times before being ridden. It helps remind both of us who is in control and how we have to act (me to be in control and them to be under control). I did have one Fjord I taught to free lunge and we both loved it. Best on those trail rides. Valerie Columbia, CT Just drop it. Click here for free information on weight loss surgery! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTF1OhBIE5qTEibIkiGADyjYg0iQuyCEWFkV61bBS95jvPGMs5TOqk/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Very interesting topic. It never crossed my mind that lunging problems could be because the horse is a Fjord, not having any Fjord prejudices myself. I love Ruth's idea that Kristi thinks she is doing her part, and is waiting for me to do mine! Between us, we'll get it straight some day She is not a horse who is lunged to wear her out, as she is calm under saddle. I just use it as something to do when I am not riding, and I use a lot of transitions to teach balance, which she could use. Also as another way to explain to her she has to do what I want, not what she thinks is best. She is a very alpha mare in the pasture and I want to be very careful she does not carry that over to her humans. My friends are all waiting to see how she works out. This fall they were impressed with her willingness and calmness on trail rides. The one day she impressed everyone the most was when we were walking along a very loamy path. She dropped her left shoulder and rolled! Because I ride in an Australian type saddle with a big pommel, she couldn't roll all the way over, though she tried. I was unhurt, but had to listen to cave-horse talk from my friends from then on. Me itchy. Me roll now. Ooops, me forgot rider! We'll get over it. Valerie Columbia, CT
Re: lunging Fjords
This message is from: bolinsj [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had always lunged my Arab before riding, so when I first got Kilar, that's how we started. He was way strong, and not particularly interested in lunging (the Arab loves it). I got dragged around the arena a lot. Because of his strength, I learned to lunge him on long-lines. He is a great driving horse and it turned his attitutude right around. Now, we only lunge after a 'long' lay-up to be sure he has all the kinks and kicks out of his system and is focussed on work before we hitch. Martie in MD I have had some trouble lunging my new Fjord I bought in August. She was very rusty in her ground manners and the first couple of times lunging her I was nearly run over, as she turned into me quickly and seriously. Again I turned to our trainer for some tips, as she is younger and faster. Also smarter, because she figured out very quickly that the trouble came at the walk. When you asked Kristi to walk, she assumed she was done and turned in and stopped, no matter what gesticulations you were making with your body and whip! When the trainer kept her at a trot, Kristi, for the most part, stayed on her circle and trotted. Problem kind of solved, though I still feel odd asking a horse to trot right out without walking a bit first. Valerie Columbia, CT
Re: lunging Fjords
This message is from: Ruth Bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have had some trouble lunging my new Fjord I bought in August. She was very rusty in her ground manners and the first couple of times lunging her I was nearly run over, as she turned into me quickly and seriously. ...When you asked Kristi to walk, she assumed she was done and turned in and stopped, no matter what gesticulations you were making with your body and whip! Valerie COULD IT BE that she has been lunged by a previous owner who worked her for a lunging join-up, such as John Lyons (and others) have taught? (so that the horse will turn and face you, follow you, etc) Some horses in particular latch on to the join-up ..quickly learn they are rewarded a breather for their obeisance, and it becomes an ingrained time-out reaction to avoid lunging. She may be thinking that you're just not catching on to her join-up act and so exaggerates her performance. =)) Ruthie, nw mt US
RE: lunging Fjords
This message is from: Laura Kranzusch [EMAIL PROTECTED] HI Valerie, I just started lunging my Fjord in December. Before that (he was a lesson horse mind you) he would be brought in and ran in the arena with other horses. I didnt even know that was not a smart thing to do until my new trainer told me so. I know that I always hated to fact that he would get into the arena and bolt on me. With that said, I began lunging him in December. He must have had that kind of training in the past, because he knew what to do. Now, after a few months, he expects to be lunged. No more bolting when I get him in the arena. I usually walk him around first, and then go into the trot. I am not brave enough to canter him in the lunge line yet though:) -Laura I have had some trouble lunging my new Fjord I bought in August. She was very rusty in her ground manners and the first couple of times lunging her I was nearly run over, as she turned into me quickly and seriously. Again I turned to our trainer for some tips, as she is younger and faster. Also smarter, because she figured out very quickly that the trouble came at the walk. When you asked Kristi to walk, she assumed she was done and turned in and stopped, no matter what gesticulations you were making with your body and whip! When the trainer kept her at a trot, Kristi, for the most part, stayed on her circle and trotted. Problem kind of solved, though I still feel odd asking a horse to trot right out without walking a bit first. Valerie Columbia, CT
lunging Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have had some trouble lunging my new Fjord I bought in August. She was very rusty in her ground manners and the first couple of times lunging her I was nearly run over, as she turned into me quickly and seriously. Again I turned to our trainer for some tips, as she is younger and faster. Also smarter, because she figured out very quickly that the trouble came at the walk. When you asked Kristi to walk, she assumed she was done and turned in and stopped, no matter what gesticulations you were making with your body and whip! When the trainer kept her at a trot, Kristi, for the most part, stayed on her circle and trotted. Problem kind of solved, though I still feel odd asking a horse to trot right out without walking a bit first. Valerie Columbia, CT
Lunging
This message is from: Janne Myrdal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lois, I really enjoyed your post on this, especially the term generous spirit or not of a horse. I am currently re-working a 12 year old mare, Fair Acres Heidi, that can no longer be bred, so we want her to be our trail mare now. She is bossy, big, BUT has a generous spirit, I just did not have the term for it until I read your post. Great! I have been trying to explain this to friends etc, who find her just a big buxom (sp?) brute. Mostly QH people. We'll show them, as she is doing just great after only one week of remembering her old riding days, way before I owned her. And by the way she gets really bored in the round pen, so we are now ground driving her, as well as some light bareback riding. In regards to Heidi, we have tried to breed her back two seasons now, but she does not take. You all may remember she lost a full term foal 2 years ago, went into serious shock etc etc, but pulled through. I just think her uterus became scarred and cannot sustain a pregnancy! To bad, as she is a great mom. Her son Tinngutten just won a driving comp. at Turlock. Yeah!!! I am off to an auction to peek at some fjords for sale among 1200 head of QH. ???/ Janne in beautiful ND, where harvest is hopefully soon over.
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/3/2002 10:00:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fall has hit hard in my area, also. Went from balmy summer to cold and windy overnight, and now I am coming down with a cold :-( I empathize. It's very chilly here outside Portland and has been raining. And my voice sounds a bit like a toad croaking. Still the ponies need care, even if I'm sick and freezing. g Pandora had a rude awakening yesterday. She has grudgingly learned to accept bathes from me. But she still doesn't like them. Well, it was raining HARD at the time they get turned out (she has shelter of a big tree in her pasture, if she wants it). Well, taking The Princess out of the barn was an adventure. She looked at me like How DARE you turn the faucets on up above. And was sulking as I took her out, not walking as nicely as usual, but circling, and getting madder than a hornet. She actually trumpeted to her mom a couple of times (which she never does) that I was abusing her by letting her get wet LOL. It's the first real rain since she was born in May. But it's Oregon, she'll get used to it. She did do better walking through her first puddle than any arab, tb, qh that I've ever seen. Just a little downward glance, stop, paw. Stick nose in puddle, then walk through. Love these fjords! Pamela A HREF=http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html;Northern Holiday Horses/A
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/3/02 7:53:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hope that makes sense. I'm happy to go into more detail if needed. It does. g But I may ask for more detail in a week or so. It's raining here furiously (yay) and we need to get our arena harrowed before we start work. As soon as the rain stops, and we do the arena, we start work. I'll let you know if I need some further details after we start. Yes, please do! Fall has hit hard in my area, also. Went from balmy summer to cold and windy overnight, and now I am coming down with a cold :-( sniff, sniff Brigid M Wasson San Francisco Bay Area, CA A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A A HREF=http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html; Fjordings West/A / )__~ /L /L
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/2/2002 5:22:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hope that makes sense. I'm happy to go into more detail if needed. It does. g But I may ask for more detail in a week or so. It's raining here furiously (yay) and we need to get our arena harrowed before we start work. As soon as the rain stops, and we do the arena, we start work. I'll let you know if I need some further details after we start. Pamela A HREF=http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html;Northern Holiday Horses/A
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brigid, Now THAT sounds like fun and I bet the Fjords love it too! Lynda Lynda and Daniel Bailey's Norwegian Fjords Shetlands White Cloud, MI 231-689-9902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords/
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/2/02 4:47:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, now this I need to hear. I've got my horses used to clicks and do some very basic stuff with them. Nothing fancy. But how do you get their canter refined, and without sidereins with a clicker? Hi Pamela- I do the same type of exercise. It's easy ;-) Basically, you use the round pen or arena for free lunging. It's important to use no tack so the horse learns to carry himself. He remembers the position you want and basically puts himself in it without physical aids. Here's how it works... You ask for a walk, trot, canter with words and/or body language. Then, you can wait for things to happen or gently influence them. For example, when I was teaching Tommes the Western Pleasure jog, we just trotted as usual and he happened to lower his head for some reason (I think there was an interesting pile of manure). CLICK! After a few repetitions of this, he learned to trot with his head lowered. He liked this so much that it was dragging on the ground. oops! Now we refined -- I worked him at a trot till he happened to raise his head to where it should be. CLICK! Eventually he understood that there was an ideal place for the head and neck to be, and he offered it consistently. We did the same basic thing for slowing down the jog. I sent him off at a trot, then stood still. For my horses, this is the signal to slow down. As he slowed almost to a walk, CLICK! Eventually he learned to offer this slow jog first, till cued otherwise. NOW, you may ask, what if my Fjord does Western, English, and Driving? Won't he always jog around with a loose rein? Here's where it gets a bit esoteric. Horses understand routines, programs. You have a different program and set of expectations for each discipline. It doesn't take long for the horse to figure out which one is needed. I suspect it's a combination of tack (how it feels to the horse and how it's used) amd the focus of the rider/driver. Hope that makes sense. I'm happy to go into more detail if needed. Brigid M Wasson San Francisco Bay Area, CA A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A A HREF=http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html; Fjordings West/A / )__~ /L /L
Re: lunging
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] And it works for teaching the canter. We have been working Gunthar in the round pen. He is so naturally unbalanced that he scares himself when he tries to canter. Scientific Disclaimer: It IS possible that Gunthar's improvement is simply due to practice of any kind (with or without clicker) ..and strengthening...BUT, we used to get sudden sliding stops from him when he scared himself, which were self-reinforcing, i.e. he felt much better after stopping, so he started doing this again whenever he got scared. Then it further exacerbated the scariness. When we started clicking as he picked up the canter, he learned to be much more relaxed and was much more willing to canter. Sure, we could have urged him forward with a lunge whip and MADE him canter until he knew he could do it...but the fear would not have gone away as easily as it does when a horse feels like he is IN CONTROL. (If you think about it, from a horse's point of view, he is always training you...and what better thing to train you to do than to give him food on command.) We click just as he starts to canter. Emphasis on start...you have to watch for when he has made up his mind and is just beginnning to act. That tells him that starting to canter is good. Then one can delay the click for a SHORT time, and, essentially, reinforce the act of cantering. Then we start being very careful to ask for the canter when he is moving as uphill as possible. The trick with clicker training is to break things down into BABY STEPS! And then start reinforcing the first steps. Eventually you only click for a good canter depart...with the emphasis on eventually. Patience and breaking things down into the TINIEST steps is key. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/2/2002 3:11:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And it works for teaching the canter. We have been working Gunthar in the round pen. He is so naturally unbalanced that he scares himself when he tries to canter. The clicker work has made him MUCH more willing to try it, and MUCH more relaxed. It also seems to have resulted in a much more uphill work at the trot...even without any work with the usual things like sidereins or, for that matter, any tack at all. Okay, now this I need to hear. I've got my horses used to clicks and do some very basic stuff with them. Nothing fancy. But how do you get their canter refined, and without sidereins with a clicker? I'm game to keep an open mind about this and see if it would help Juniper in her canter better than the classic stuff does. :) Again, she's had some time off with her baby, but work starts again this month. Pamela A HREF=http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html;Northern Holiday Horses/A
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/2/02 10:37:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any thoughts on this idea? Someone wrote before that giving Fjords treats was not something to do so I did abstain. But maybe I should just go with what works. Sort of like a John Lyons approach for the trainer as well as the horse. Hi Lois- As clicker trainer extraordinaire I am big on treats ;-) They are extremely motivating for Fjords! Yes, horses will mug, bite and be generally obnoxious if indiscriminately hand-fed. It's all in the technique. Make manners part of your request every time. When you click or say good girl or whatever, you give the treat WHEN THE HORSE'S HEAD IS FACING AWAY FROM YOU. Ignore mugging, and withhold the food till it stops. If this is too difficult for you, throw the food on the ground or in a bucket. Brigid M Wasson San Francisco Bay Area, CA A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A A HREF=http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html; Fjordings West/A / )__~ /L /L
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/2/02 10:03:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And this is where I find this discussion of lunging getting confusing. Why continue to lunge if the horse has these lessons down pat? Why not a progression to another level of training? I mean, many people I know lunge the same horse the same way everytime they work with the animal! What is the purpose? Hi Lynda- I sometimes ask myself the same question. My fellow boarders (the ones who actually do something with their horses) generally do the exact same thing every day, whether lunging or riding in the arena. Day after day, same thing! Dagrun I are coming up with something new every week. Our horses are trail riding, driving, free jumping, sometimes free lunging with two or three horses at the same time! We also have a new trick where one of us stands on each side of the arena, so the free-lungeing horse can be driven around the entire arena, or in circles on either side. One of the boarders actually commented, You two are always up to something interesting! Yep, we're having fun, and so are the horses. Brigid M Wasson San Francisco Bay Area, CA A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A A HREF=http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html; Fjordings West/A / )__~ /L /L
Re: lunging
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] CLICKER TRAINING! And it works for teaching the canter. We have been working Gunthar in the round pen. He is so naturally unbalanced that he scares himself when he tries to canter. The clicker work has made him MUCH more willing to try it, and MUCH more relaxed. It also seems to have resulted in a much more uphill work at the trot...even without any work with the usual things like sidereins or, for that matter, any tack at all. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lunging
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is one thing that does work extremely well with her that I hesitated to start but may just go with what works. If I have a pocketful of treats and she gets a good girl and a cookie when she does what I ask I often have her rapt attention...and obedience does follow when I have her attention. CLICKER TRAINING! There is your answer. It really works wonderfully. You don't actually NEED a clicker but can use a click with your tongue or any other distinctive sound to bridge the desired action to the reward. The trick is to teach them first not to Mug you for the treats, that they will only get treats if they perform a desired action and the click or sound tells them that they have done something you wanted. Check out Alexandra Kurlan's website for information and her book on clicker training your horse. http://www.crisny.org/users/kurlanda/ She also has a series of detailed instructive videos available. you can read artciles about various case histories on her website. Clicker training works especially well with Fjords and helps the trainer become better with timing, etc. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, sunny and cool, but no snow! 40 degrees Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lunging
This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lois: Throw in a bridging sound (the CLICK!) and you've got a good start on clicker training. :^) There is one thing that does work extremely well with her that I hesitated to start but may just go with what works. If I have a pocketful of treats and she gets a good girl and a cookie when she does what I ask I often have her rapt attention...and obedience does follow when I have her attention. My old dressage trainer from Hungary who had ridden in the Olympics always had a pocketful of sugar and he rewarded his horses and lesson horses often during a training session. Any thoughts on this idea? Cheers! Karen _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Re: Fjords lunging
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another little promo...Olaf Nyby is coming to Northern California (Wilton, near Sacramento) to do a clinic at Clay Station Horse Park. Nice big covered arena. November 29-Dec 1. Contact me or Cheryl for more info. If you want to bring a horse, you need to contact me or Cheryl soon. See Cheryl's website for info about his clinics. www.wakerobinfarm.com Gail However, the question was - To Lunge or Not to Lunge --- We used to lunge routinely. Now, we much prefer longlining. You have more control, and it's much easier to teach the horse to go on the bit as it's more consistent with the feel of a rider or driver's hands. Our conversion from lunging to longlining came just last year when we atteneded an Olaf Nyby clinic on Prince Edward Island. If you get a chance to do one of his clinics, don't pass it by. - - He's great, and we don't lunge at all anymore. Call Cheryl Beillard to find out about these inics. --- ~ Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/2/2002 10:04:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I mean, many people I know lunge the same horse the same way everytime they work with the animal! What is the purpose? On a couple of the lesson horses that I've ridden of Dr. Ritter's he does lunge a horse (with sidereins) before a lesson. One of them just has a lot of uumph to him when he's fresh, and the goal was to train me, not to break me, :o so he'd let the horse get its odd buck out on a line. The other needed to warm up and stretch a bit before being ridden. Cold backed? I do lunge my very sensitive qh before I ride her, just to test her mood. But I don't lunge Juniper before a ride (the lunge line lessons for canter happen on days when I don't ride). But I do let her warm up for a good 15-20 minutes of walking, light trotting before we start to work. Pamela A HREF=http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html;Northern Holiday Horses/A
Re: lunging
This message is from: Bossmare [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: John LyonsI believe in one of his newsletters or books he does mention there are times a trainer may have to resort to putting a horse on a line so that indicates to me there is still some merit in this enlightened age in returning to tried and true training aids. I am not discouraged with my mare but am intrigued why what worked for me very well with Morgans, with their Arab blood I might add, does not work well with this Fjord. Lunging was also a major chore for different reasons with my Friesian. So was free lunging. She was not forward and that's an understatement. No problem with forwardness with the Fjords! Quite the opposite actually. I don't understand when given the option (as per Lyons et al and me) to make life easier for herself she prefers to make it difficult. As JL says often make the right answer easy and the wrong answer uncomfortable. There is one thing that does work extremely well with her that I hesitated to start but may just go with what works. If I have a pocketful of treats and she gets a good girl and a cookie when she does what I ask I often have her rapt attention...and obedience does follow when I have her attention. My old dressage trainer from Hungary who had ridden in the Olympics always had a pocketful of sugar and he rewarded his horses and lesson horses often during a training session. Any thoughts on this idea? Someone wrote before that giving Fjords treats was not something to do so I did abstain. But maybe I should just go with what works. Sort of like a John Lyons approach for the trainer as well as the horse. Lois - Original Message - From: ruth bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 11:50 AM Subject: lunging This message is from: ruth bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wonder if we're not talking about a couple of different things on this lunging topic... maybe the term is now being used loosely to encompass any kind of circular horse activity? =)) Strictly speaking it means a long rope or leather rein used for schooling or exercising a horse by someone on foot. or to school or exercise a horse by means of a lunge. (also called a lunging rein). I've also heard the practice of a pre-riding circular exercise (even WITHOUT line) referred to as lunging also . (well, maybe it was me that said it = I'm thinking of the John Lyons demos on how to establish dominance with a green horse through a circular driving technique... in which you push the horse, by body language, clockwise, then counterclockwise-- until the horse complies and acknowledges your control. It's really impressive! (he has tapes on this) This practice is also sometimes used as a warmup exercise that sort of shakes the snakes out of a spirited steed. Some time back this technique worked a miracle on an Arab I had and I would frequently do this before she was ridden until all of the bucks were out of her. (this is in the far past so let's not rehash the wisdom of it, I'm just illustrating there is some merit in it) But getting to the point.. this kind of thing does not work with Fjords so well we quickly discovered-- they simply don't respond like Arabs do = and it also doesn't work because it would take five good men taking turns all day to run a green Fjord into that kind of submission and they still might not agree with you! (ha ha) I wrote to John Lyons asking him about the Fjord in regards to his technique, (quite some time back now), but never got a satisfactory answer. however, it seems like somewhere in the back of my rusty mind I recall a comment on this list, attributed to him, that he found Fjords somewhat different also (regards lunging). Does anyone recall that ? (maybe guru Jean Ernest does =))) So, I'm saying there's a big difference between consistently training the Fjord on a line, as compared to attempting to quickly rotate him into a desired submission without a line. Right? Ruthie, nw mt
Re: lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] HI Ruthie, You might have hit the nail on the head, so to speak! Most people I know who lunge use a whip and tend to go around and around in circles, some go into commands such as walk, trot, canter, halt, reverse...but still the same old circles and normally use this to work out the oats of the horse in question before further work. One of our basic training tools is using the round pen for a similar sort of thing, just without a lunge line or whip, all verbal and body commands. We also very quickly add in obstacles as Fjords do get bored after they have learned their lesson of the day! We use the round pen as more of a transitionary tool between the lead rope and grounddriving/longlining. However, we prefer grounddriving/longlining to be the next basic step after the Fjord understands the voice commands. This is where the work (for us, anyway) really begins as the more time spend grounddriving/longlining, the better trained the Fjord will end up being. And this is where I find this discussion of lunging getting confusing. Why continue to lunge if the horse has these lessons down pat? Why not a progression to another level of training? I mean, many people I know lunge the same horse the same way everytime they work with the animal! What is the purpose? Lynda and Daniel Bailey's Norwegian Fjords Shetlands White Cloud, MI 231-689-9902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords/
lunging
This message is from: ruth bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wonder if we're not talking about a couple of different things on this lunging topic... maybe the term is now being used loosely to encompass any kind of circular horse activity? =)) Strictly speaking it means a long rope or leather rein used for schooling or exercising a horse by someone on foot. or to school or exercise a horse by means of a lunge. (also called a lunging rein). I've also heard the practice of a pre-riding circular exercise (even WITHOUT line) referred to as lunging also . (well, maybe it was me that said it = I'm thinking of the John Lyons demos on how to establish dominance with a green horse through a circular driving technique... in which you push the horse, by body language, clockwise, then counterclockwise-- until the horse complies and acknowledges your control. It's really impressive! (he has tapes on this) This practice is also sometimes used as a warmup exercise that sort of shakes the snakes out of a spirited steed. Some time back this technique worked a miracle on an Arab I had and I would frequently do this before she was ridden until all of the bucks were out of her. (this is in the far past so let's not rehash the wisdom of it, I'm just illustrating there is some merit in it) But getting to the point.. this kind of thing does not work with Fjords so well we quickly discovered-- they simply don't respond like Arabs do = and it also doesn't work because it would take five good men taking turns all day to run a green Fjord into that kind of submission and they still might not agree with you! (ha ha) I wrote to John Lyons asking him about the Fjord in regards to his technique, (quite some time back now), but never got a satisfactory answer. however, it seems like somewhere in the back of my rusty mind I recall a comment on this list, attributed to him, that he found Fjords somewhat different also (regards lunging). Does anyone recall that ? (maybe guru Jean Ernest does =))) So, I'm saying there's a big difference between consistently training the Fjord on a line, as compared to attempting to quickly rotate him into a desired submission without a line. Right? Ruthie, nw mt
Re: Fjords lunging
This message is from: ruth bushnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carol, It's very nice to have posts from you again, sharing your considerable experience! It all sounded great! Maybe it is time for a sequel to The Fjordhorse Handbook in which you elaborate on training techniques? =))) Sincerely, Ruthie, nw mt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - We used to lunge routinely. Now, we much prefer longlining. You have more control, and it's much easier to teach the horse to go on the bit as it's more consistent with the feel of a rider or driver's hands.
Re: Lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/2/2002 6:34:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Learn more here: http://www.classicaldressage.com/ Fjords are natural to proper lunging, just not the other kind that most people think they know. And Thomas Ritter, who owns that website just loves fjords! Juniper was his first that he's been around, and there are a couple others, one on this list that I know of. :) He smiles and tells me what a good, kind horse I have. When I tense up at the things that are MY problems that I have to work through, he says: Another horse would have hurt you for that. Don't be afraid, this horse is so good and she won't do anything stupid with you. Have I mentioned how much I love this mare? g Pamela A HREF=http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html;Northern Holiday Horses/A
Re: Fjords lunging
This message is from: Arthur Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Lois commented she'd heard Fjords can't be lunged. - I've never heard that one, but can imagine it's one of the myriad bits of misinformation floating around about Fjordhorses. And, as is usually the case, there is some basis in fact. However, my initial reaction if I heard such a comment would be to say - nonsense. Again, . . . . Successful training of Fjordhorses, just like any other horses, depends on early, correct, consistent work. Fjords aren't any different than other breeds when it comes to training needs. The only difference is in the people who own them, and what these people expect, which far too often is a horse who somehow trains himself, or is born trained. This isn't going to happen! Of course, Fjords can be trained to lunge, but you just don't put them on the end of a line and expect them to know what to do. -- You train them to lunge as you would any other horse.-- And, of course, before starting them lunging, you've already spent a couple of years instilling obedience on the lead leading from both sides, walking at different speeds, halting, turning, backing up. Also, slow trot and trot on. -- If this work has been done correctly and consistently, training to lunge shouldn't be a problem. I have encountered Fjords who pulled all the tricks Lois described. These were the horses that hadn't received the right kind of training. Some of the difficult ones were mature horses we used to import from Holland, and the reason they were difficult was that they'd been raised by Dutch farmers who didn't expect too much in the way of compliance. Mostly, the horses were left in the field to get fat and grow babies, and once in a while they were brought in for a drive in the country. The problem is that the burly Dutch farmers saw nothing out of the ordinary in a horse that leaned on the bit. The farmer just held on all the tighter using his considerable strength. --- This was not acceptable to me, and it took much work, patience, and time to set things right. -- As usual, it was much tougher correcting this behavior than doing it right in the first place. We learned very early on that the best horses, meaning the ones who rode and drove the best, were the ones we got really young and trained ourselves. And better still, were the ones born here on the farm that were trained from Day One. ~ However, the question was - To Lunge or Not to Lunge --- We used to lunge routinely. Now, we much prefer longlining. You have more control, and it's much easier to teach the horse to go on the bit as it's more consistent with the feel of a rider or driver's hands. Our conversion from lunging to longlining came just last year when we atteneded an Olaf Nyby clinic on Prince Edward Island. If you get a chance to do one of his clinics, don't pass it by. - - He's great, and we don't lunge at all anymore. Call Cheryl Beillard to find out about these inics. --- ~ The big training problem in Fjords is getting a full-sized Fjord that's not been well-handled and trained and worked up to his age level. If you get one like that, then you've got a problem that's going to take time and money to fix. -- We constantly get calls and emails from people who've bought Fjords that haven't been regularly worked, and the new owners have serious problems. Very often, these people would have been much better off buying a good weanling, and doing the training themselves. I know a lot of people don't agree with this, and of course, a weanling isn't for everybody, but I firmly believe that many people can do an excellent job with a quality weanling. -- A whole lot of our customers have done just that and been very successful. Isnt' it better to spend two years correctly bringing on your own horse than to buy a mishandled, untrained, 1,000 lb. two-year-old? - With the former, you'll have a well-behaved young horse to ride and drive in his third year, and you'll know everythng about him. Also, over the years that he's growing, you'll have developed a rapport and understanding with this horse. You'll know him so well, you won't be intimidated by him.-- With the latter (the ill-mannered 2-yr-old,) , you could be looking at two or more years of professional training at $500 + a month, and possibly the horse will never be what you wanted. -- An amateur owner CAN train a weanling doing it slowly and consistently, and doing it by the book! --- An amateur owner can get hurt trying to train a pushy, undisciplined, ill-mannered, full-grown horse. Also, something to remember is that if you choose to buy the made horse rather than starting yourself with a weanling, you should be prepared to pay Much Much Much more for that horse. Many people would be far better off starting
Re: Lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I classical dressage we have found that the general conception of lunging, to most people not in the know, is to mindlessly set the horse to running around them, brain off, in a circle on 'a giant leash.' Not so! Proper lunging, taught by someone who does know the original purpose, teaches the horse to walk, trot and halt before you ever get on. It teaches collection, proper balance and basic obedience. That is so true. At my previous stable (a Hunter/Jumper show barn with lots of ponies) I was the Pony Tamer/Lunging Queen, and worked with, usually, half a dozen ponies on a daily basis. I always got strange looks from the Dressage riders when I would be long-lining a super-fancy small pony on the bit, having her go through her entire routine on the ground. She was at her best for her young riders right after I would work with her, making for great experiences overall. Another one I trained was very green and all she knew about lunging was, like you said, running around at the end of the line like a maniac. It took a long time but now she's an incredible lunger. She's the one I'm most proud of, as she knows a dozen voice commands and she's heavenly when free lunged. However I got so close to her that I had to buy her... With the Fjords it's been a little bit different, at least with Torden, as he hates to be lunged in a bridle. He pulls and pulls until the session is over. However, in a halter or cavesson he's a dream. He ground drives beautifully in a bridle, but for some reason the circle just doesn't work for him. Go figure. One of the older Fjord geldings I worked with loved to be lunged and knew the basic voice commands pretty easily. He would pull a little bit, but not much. Usually though he was pulling me towards the jumps in the arena - his passion was jumping on the lunge line. The other older Fjord gelding was different from both the other two, as his conformation didn't allow him to canter and he would just fall apart every time I tried to lunge him. Unfortunately I couldn't work with him as often as he needed it, but I'm sure with consistent work he would have improved his balance. - Jamie
Re: Lunging
This message is from: Mary Dixon/Steve Stanchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] I classical dressage we have found that the general conception of lunging, to most people not in the know, is to mindlessly set the horse to running around them, brain off, in a circle on 'a giant leash.' Not so! Proper lunging, taught by someone who does know the original purpose, teaches the horse to walk, trot and halt before you ever get on. It teaches collection, proper balance and basic obedience. Learn more here: http://www.classicaldressage.com/ Fjords are natural to proper lunging, just not the other kind that most people think they know. Mary in Ann Arbor MI and Finne, lunge champ
RE: lunging young horses AND hay
This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fjords are slow maturers, I would not recommend lunging them at this time or for another year or even two. You might try longlining them or doing some type of TTeam or Parelli, etc. type ground work with them if you want to get them doing something. If you do decide to lunge them, only do it for very short periods of time - 5 or 10 mintues max. Round pens are no larger usually than a lunge line so you are not really doing anything better by using one. It is the smaller circles that cause the stress on their legs. Regarding Hay - I just help unload 200 bales of bermuda hay on a 103 degree day! With delivery, I ended up paying $6.48 a bale. It is beautiful stuff compared to what I got last year and the horses eat every piece up. Hay is only going to get more expensive here in New Mexico where we are probably entering a long term drought period. = Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lunging young horses
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sharon I have heard some horror tales about lunging young horses before they have their bone growth. I wonder though if short sessions on a long line, no tight circles, could hurt. But beware of boring them as it is not an exciting thing for young minds. Or older people's minds for that matter. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: lunging young horses
This message is from: Jim and Tamara Hooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] A great solution to lunging young horses is the round pen. My husband built me a round pen with about a 48' diameter and my two Fjords responded very quickly and were soon ridden. The round pen is a good way to lunge since it keeps the horses moving in a circular motion under easy control. The round pen is also a good way to work on finer collected horse movement points. Tammy Hooper Naples, ID
lunging young horses
This message is from: sharon knipe [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have recently acquired 2 - 11 month old fillies and we are wondering when we could start lunging them. They seem very interested in the work we are doing with the 2 year old and would like to start the young ones as soon as it is wise to do so. Any help anyone could give me would be much appreciated. thanks Sharon Knipe
Re: lunging
This message is from: Patryjak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori I think there may be a difference in allowing---inviting than The difference Jean mentions may simply be in your intention. Horses pick up very minute subtleties in body language from you and herd mates. If you want the horse to stay out on the circle, your body language will be subtly different from when you invite in. That body language is the cue. If you are thinking Come in and say hello your body will send a different message than when you are thinking Stay OUT there ! (When inviting in you probably don't move your feet, or open your arms slightly. When asking for stay out, you might step toward horse with one foot, more aggresively...) We all can usually tell when someone doesn't want us around...either by voice, look or attitude...and horses are probably more finely tuned to this than we are! Glad you all survived the earthquake out there! Betsy in Michigan...where, well, it warmed up a bit and hatched all the bugs!
Re: lunging
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori I think there may be a difference in allowing---inviting than training or avoidance. ? Jean Walters Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Amazon.com to order
Re: lunging
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean Gayle wrote: Lori I have had new horses turn toward me and I give them a sharp no and then step in a line behind their shoulder, snap the whip and drive them on. Once you get alongside or in front of the shoulder (the line is the lunge line) they will usually stop or turn in. Jean Hi Jean, I do this too. I'm one of the ones who don't allow the horse to ever turn in to the circle and face me. When we halt, the horse must remain on the circle, although he can turn his neck and look at me (that's a good thing). I just wondered, since Carol said that Irmgard and Coupe both allow and invite the horse in to the middle, if there wouldn't be a problem with the horse using this action as an evasion? Inquiring minds. Lori
Re: lunging
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori I have had new horses turn toward me and I give them a sharp no and then step in a line behind their shoulder, snap the whip and drive them on. Once you get alongside or in front of the shoulder (the line is the lunge line) they will usually stop or turn in. Jean Jean Walters Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Amazon.com to order
Re: Lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Suzan, Where are you in MN?? Must be where there was more snow than we had. Now that we have it, the wind chills have been -25 every day! Can't wait for it to warm up to the teens and hitch him up. They're driving on the lake, so we're ready to go out whenever the weather cooperates! Susan from Eden Prairie, MN
Free lunging
This message is from: misha nogha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello from Shota Fjords in Eastern Oregon. I wanted to put in my 2 cents about lunging. I use it to see where a horse is at emotionially before a ride or drive, to give the horse some exercise, and to play with my horses. I don't just have the horse run around in a circle, but change speed, direction, go over or around obstacles. This makes it fun for you and the horse. Admittedly a round pen is a great tool. One only has to check out the methods of John Lyons, Ray Hunt, Pat Parelli, Monty Roberts and others. A round pen is a very useful tool to get your horse locked onto you. If you take Monty Roberts join up idea, you can use it to make your horse want to be with you. You can lunge a horse in a pen with corners using these methods. Horses that have had round pen training are very sensitive to body language. It may be that if the horse has got 'stuck' in a corner it is because you have driven him there. If you just step back a notch, the horse will feel free to come out of the corner. I never use a chain on my horses for any reason. I do like those horseman's halters Lyons and Parelli use because they are light on the face when not pulled and have a bite when theyare as they are made of thin rope. Misha
Lunging
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I lunge my horse if she seems full of energy (and the devil). I don't do it for very long. She was very difficult to train to lunge. She wanted to come to me instead of staying out on the circle. She's OK now, but would still rather come to me sometimes. We had the sleigh out twice over the holidays. She's getting the hang of it. I don't think I'll enter the Beargrease Sleigh and cutter parade, though. We need a bit with a little more control. She doesn't always listen to a snaffle, and I don't want to make a fool of myself in front of a crowd. Another Suzan in Minnesota (only with a Z) The high today was 0 degrees. We have a fair amount of snow.
