Re: quality of life
This message is from: Anne Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Ingrid, Regarding the decision to end a life - though I wholeheartedly agree with your position in both your related cases - you must remember that people differ in their opinions on ending life before nature does. We should be truly thankful to have the OPTION to relieve our pets' suffering, If we can't bear to watch our pets suffer, imagine how awful it must be for families to watch a loved one suffer equally but know there is NO option. Some people feel very strongly that all measures should be taken to save the loved one, no matter what. This is a very volatile subject, I know, but the point is, whether person or pet, some people do not accept the notion of euthanasia (including lawmakers). Anne in VA - Original Message - From: Ingrid Ivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fjordhorse List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 1:03 PM Subject: quality of life This message is from: Ingrid Ivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] What is your thoughts on when it is the right time to place a horse down? How far should we go to save a horse and when is quality of life considered good, bad or indifferent ? Thank you , Catherine Lassesen It seems to me that keeping any animal alive by extraordinary means, especially when the outcome is fairly clear, is wrong. Many times an animal is kept alive strictly because it's owner is unable to come to terms with the fact that the animal is truly dying and in pain. Had the misfortune of seeing this happen twice this year. My neighbor's 12 yr. old Rottweiler was diagnosed with liver cancer and had also developed several large tumours. The once glossy coated, healthy and exuberant dog had wasted away to almost nothing in a few short weeks. This neighbor gave us almost daily reports about all the different dog, cat and human foods he bought, trying to entice her to eat. During these conversations, I could feel he knew what he should do...just that he couldn't do it. I dreaded going outside to my backyard for fear I'd have to hear (or worse SEE) she was still alive and painfully miserable. When he asked my opinion during the final week, all I could say to him was: Are you doing this for her or for you? He admitted he was being selfish, but couldn't bring himself to have the dog put down. There's the tragedy...who suffered most in this case? All the good and bad should be weighed out...prolonging life for a week, a couple of weeks, years...is it something that can it be managed without extreme strain on one's budget and time...and sanity? Will the animal have to endure a painful existence? No, the answer isn't always clear, but deep down most people KNOW what to do. You can FEEL it. I still resent something a former vet did, while dealing with this similar situation earlier in the year with our golden retreiver. I felt he DID want to prolong her life unecessarily...trying to push a (very expensive) kidney transplant for her, even though no documented case of a sucessful, life saving transplantation has been recorded...to my knowledge. We'd already had 2 weeks of IV's, 5 different meds shoved down her throat, and endless nights sleeping on the couch to be there for the poor creature...etc. I was lead to believe she may recover, if only I went along with every known treatment. After all this, I was still questioned, as I brought her in to be euthanized, gee...are you sure? A horrible feeling, even though I knew it was the right thing to do. She hadn't eaten in a week, then refused to drink the last 3 days. If I am ever faced with something like this again (I sincerely hope not), I will be even more decisive. We are still making payments for this vet's willingness to experiment with our dog. Education is expensive...one of my favorite sayings. OK...enough ranting...I'm off the soap box...guess it still hurts. I know others here have similar stories concerning their pets and their health...curious to hear from others. On the subject of feeding and sand/or mud consumption...I was wondering how many folks feed their hay on the ground? I'm also wondering if I should investigate off the ground type feeders. Wouldn't most of it end up on the ground again anyway? If I put rubber mats outside to feed off of...wouldn't the hay be shoved off them and/or the mats turn muddy too? As our herd is turned out all day, I can't see bringing them all in 3 or 4 times a day to feed them hay in their stalls as a daily routine. I make the effort to check on them several times a day, tossing out more hay as needed...but that's about it. The ground they are on is a combination of pasture and a few dry lots...ok, mud lots right now...and they do get some grain (in a feeder, in their stall) in the evening with their final hay ration. Interesting subject matter concerning the feeding of psyllium. I have fed Sand-Clear with their normal rations during the warm months,
Re: quality of life
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re putting pets down. We have a wonderful and extremely good small animal vet here. His one problem is the inability to put pets down!! It just about kills him. His seventy acres is full of rejects and he takes home terminal cases and nurses them back to health on his own time. So, maybe that was what happened to your dog rather than the vet experimenting on it?? Re putting animals down. It is heart rending and gives very mixed emotions. Would be nice if the animal would do it themselves so we do not have to make the decision. I have also had to make this decision with a parent. I wished the physician would have done it for me. My little fourteen year old Corgi is withering away. He gets six pills a day. But he still romps, guards the fence line and herds the horses. Albeit slowly. He has a heated bed he will not use preferring to spend his nights guarding the front door in all kinds of weather. When I command him to get in the bed he does but the minute I go back in the house he is at the front door guarding. When he can no longer show his enthusiasm for his life I will have him tranquilized here and then put down. Hard day. Re feeders. I have a cattle feeder in the large field and it sits on screenings as it would be knee deep mud in short order. My big horse pulls the hay out over the top. Others end up cleaning up around the feeder. In the stalls, hooves bring in the mud and screenings from the fields and I would be sweeping two-three times a day to keep the mats clean. It seems to me that horses have been eating dirt through the ages and some must have a proclivity to saving it in an intestinal pocket. The torsion that my Howdy died of had been misdiagnosed and had we operated sooner he would have been all right. about $6000 if he had not died. $2300 for his operation and disposal. So as no one can be truly sure these products, some makers do not use psyliium, do not work...I will continue to use them. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: Quality of Life
This message is from: Carl Sarah Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Catherine, We just went through that this summer. Our older mare, Jonetta (June) was 25. She had been fine ... enjoying quality of life even tho she had heaves, they were controlled with medication, and she wasn't suffering. She was a terrific horse, perfect for her job as my daughters horse. The next week, she caught a virus, it turned into pneumonia and everything went downhill fast. At the end of three weeks, it was obvious to us that it was time. A more experienced person might have known it right away, but it took me at least one week to realize that she wasn't going to recover. My vet was incredibly instrumental in helping me realize it was time to put her down and she assurred me that she would not euthanize June prematurily. Once she told me June was actually suffering, we did what we had to do. When you find yourself in those situations wondering? Ask your vet, work closely with them. They will help you. Also, often you just know. You can tell by looking in the horse's eye ... you can see when they are ready and when they are still fighting. I have found this to be true with cats and dogs as well. Good luck and God bless you for taking in those rescue and damaged animals. Along with the heartbreak, there are often very rich rewards to be gotten . Sarah Nagel -Original Message- From: Catherine Lassesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 6:28 AM Subject: Quality of Life This message is from: Catherine Lassesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I would like to hear comments PLEASE. It has come to the time when we (all of us at the farm) are talking about quality of life in an horse. For me it is always a hard time deciding when to put a horse down. And since we do rescues and tend to have an older horse or damaged horse. We face the choice more often than the normal farm. But it is always still a hard one. What is your thoughts on when it is the right time to place a horse down? How far should we go to save a horse and when is quality of life considered good, bad or indifferent ? Thank you , Catherine Lassesen
Re: Quality of Life
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/7/99 6:27:49 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How far should we go to save a horse and when is quality of life considered good, bad or indifferent ? If I could afford to keep a horse who is just a pasture ornament, with no hope to ever ride it, breed it, etc. but it's quality of life was good, or even so-so, I would keep it. And let it live out it's days peacefully. If money were an issue, I'd have to rethink the issue. One thing I did with an aged, arthritic, cripple old mare who I loved is I gave her to a petting zoo. Last I heard she was very happy being doted on and the queen of the petting zoo. Occasionally a young child will get their first taste of sitting horseback on old Jenny Sue. There are options if the horse isn't in terrible pain. If the animal were in pain I wouldn't, haven't hesitated to put it down. If there is no hope of recovery. It's not fair to the animal. Even in the wild, I think the suffering would be short, as the animal in pain and unable to move fast is the target for the cougar and wolf. It just makes good sense to not let an animal suffer. Sounds like this may be a decision you must make soon. Good luck. I'm certain you'll do the right thing. Pamela
Re: Quality of Life
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Catherine Lassesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Catherine Lassesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I would like to hear comments PLEASE. It has come to the time when we (all of us at the farm) are talking about quality of life in an horse. Catherine, I, too, own an older horse - Line is now approaching the 30-year mark. Next year will be her 30th year. Last year she began losing her eyesight, and recently her hearing is not as good. She has had arthritis in her hocks for several years now. BUT she is still happy, healthy, interested in the world around her, and seems to enjoy life. We have done a lot of thinking about what the 'criteria' would be for putting her down. Here is what I have come up with: 1)If, or when, she develops any disease which is difficult(ie. the cure is worse than the disease), or impossible to treat. 2) When her enjoyment of life is gone - either due to severe pain, confusion due to complete blindness and deafness, illness that makes her miserable all the time. 3)When her body wears out to the point that she can no longer nourish herself - I REFUSE to let a horse essentially starve to death because she's just old! As you can see, and I'm sure you know from past experience, there are no really 'cut and dried' answers here. Just general guidelines. You really have to go by 'gut feeling' here - if you know in your 'gut'(or heart) that the animal is miserable, and will never again be anything but miserable, then the time has come to be kind. We have had the unfortunate experience of having to apply these criteria to a beautiful, perfectly conformed 5-week-old filly. She was born - and remained - immune compromised. Nothing we used to give her immunity worked. We kept hoping her own body would begin to make its own immunity, but it never did. She went from one infection to another for weeks. When she developed meningitis we knew it was time to let her go. But it was hard to give up on her. Nowdays there are better treatments for FPT, so she probably would have lived a long happy life. She was just born a couple of years too soon. Hope this helps in your thinking/pondering. Mary = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: Quality of Life
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/7/99 7:27:49 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: quality of life I'm dealing with that with my 19 year old cat before I move. I don't know how to not second guess yourself, but I sure wish I did. Most people err on the side of caution, me included.
Re: Quality of Life
This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] Its a very hard decision to make for all of our beloved animals. We had to put our 16yr. old cat to sleep last year. He'd been battling diabetes for about ten months. Even with daily insulin shots, we, he, had a hard time. After spending time with the vet throughout this period, the last time he went into a diabetic semicoma, we opted to end it then. He could hardly walk much less crawl. We probably waited too long to do it as I'm sure he suffered. I miss him terribly. I hope I make a better decision the next time I go through this. Debby in TX Catherine Lassesen wrote: This message is from: Catherine Lassesen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I would like to hear comments PLEASE. It has come to the time when we (all of us at the farm) are talking about quality of life in an horse. For me it is always a hard time deciding when to put a horse down. And since we do rescues and tend to have an older horse or damaged horse. We face the choice more often than the normal farm. But it is always still a hard one. What is your thoughts on when it is the right time to place a horse down? How far should we go to save a horse and when is quality of life considered good, bad or indifferent ? Thank you , Catherine Lassesen
