Re: Stallion Temperament
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 10:41 PM 8/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >This message is from: Niki May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Just a note about the American Evaluations for those who do not know- >all conformation tests are judged individually with only one horse in >the ring at a time, so the stallion problem is not related to other >horses in the arena with him. The stallions (or mares, geldings) are not >brought together until the end of the class when judging is basically >over just for another quick look and to award the placings. Thanks Niki. This is also true for the performance tests. The Evaluation is NOT a horse show. Each horse is looked at and evaluated individually. == Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Webster, NY, USA (Suburb of Rochester) Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stallion Temperament
This message is from: Niki May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just a note about the American Evaluations for those who do not know- all conformation tests are judged individually with only one horse in the ring at a time, so the stallion problem is not related to other horses in the arena with him. The stallions (or mares, geldings) are not brought together until the end of the class when judging is basically over just for another quick look and to award the placings. Niki May
Re: Stallion Temperament
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-08-20 16:33:02 EDT, you write: <> I was there the first day. My husband was there the second. What I saw was a horse going after his handler, looking as if he wanted to savage her. It was very worrisome. She was having trouble with him from the moment she brought him out, till the moment she put him away. To his credit, I went to his stall later that day, and he was a sweetheart. I talked softly to him, and his eyes were soft and gentle. The owner then came to me and told me to "Stay Away From Him, He'll Bite You". I didn't want to contradict her, but I do know when a horse is in a rage, and when he is being kind. He was kind at that moment. She did tell me she was considering gelding him, and I was very happy to hear that. I hope she does. He would be a lovely gelding, and I think she would be happier too! Pamela Who did LIKE this horse an awful lot, in many ways, but not enough to breed my mares to him
Stallion Temperament
This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My first reaction on reading that the NFHR evaluation doesn't address temperament was surprise, after reading in Carol's book that the Dutch have three different "scores" for temperament. I think they were Attitude, Character, & Something Else (can't remember and can't find my book right now, sorry -- maybe Carol could fill this in?). So I looked up the NFHR evaluation rules on the web site and sure enough, the closest we have to temperament is "Presence", under the Type section. Certainly that is an important attribute, but it's not temperament. The tough part is defining acceptable or ideal temperament. I'm sure that we don't want to legislate our stallions into dullards, and I'm sure NOBODY wants that. However, most of us weren't at the evaluation in question so we don't know exactly what behaviour this stallion exhibited. I think it's probably normal for a stallion to go around trumpeting and pulling on the leadshank, etc. especially in the presence of other stallions. If on the other hand he was vicious, like attacking his handler with teeth or hooves, that would be unacceptable, IMHO. Also, is there perhaps an easier way to structure the evaluation for the benefit of the stallions? Maybe do the conformation analysis in hand seperately rather than all in the ring together? Certainly stallions in the wild coming together are going to fight, it's in their nature. Lori
Re: Stallion temperament
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In a message dated 98-08-19 14:28:07 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << The question is how much of this is heritable and how much is just > because the stallion is virile (i.e., uncut)? That is, would a mare > or a gelding out of him also be hard to handle/dangerous? Further, > even if the traits are heritable, what would be the effect of a > nuturing environment on the stallion's offspring? >> > > Good question. But when I see two stallions, of pretty much "equal" > conformation, beauty and talent, and one of them is completely off the wall, > and the other one can breed a mare, then go out to do demonstration in > dressage later that evening, with other horses around, there is no question > which stallion I would like to breed my mare. Nature or nurture, I'm not > completely sold on either, but I think I'd have a better chance of having a > foal with a good disposition by the latter sire. > > Pamela You make a good point, and I probably would make the same choice. However, the reason I wonder about the extent that temperament is genetically determined and consequently is heritable (vaguely remembering my college genetics courses that indicated that different traits have different percent heritability), is that, even if it is , only 50% of the genetic material comes from the sire. I also wonder if stallion temperament is not sex-linked, that is would it tend to be expressed more in a stud colt rather than a filly?
Re: Stallion temperament
This message is from: Starfire Farm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Temperament, like all other traits, is heritable (all you have to do is take a good look at humankind and you will see this - Fjords are no different.) One must also look at how a particular animal has been raised. There are many historical factors which affect an adult animal's behavior. Was the stallion, as a youngster, spoiled and raised like a pet dog? Was he allowed to mature within a herd of horses (preferably some wise geldings and older mares) so he could be socialized in an environment he understood? Most often, with stallions, we make the mistake of isolating them from other horses, so they don't learn the social skills other horses learn. In addition, Fjord babies are so cute and cuddly, many people make the mistake of raising them like a dog instead of a horse. With a young stallion, this can become very dangerous. My point is, you can't blame it all on genetics! Beth and the growing Fjord herd at Starfire Farm.
Re: Stallion temperament
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-08-19 14:28:07 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The question is how much of this is heritable and how much is just because the stallion is virile (i.e., uncut)? That is, would a mare or a gelding out of him also be hard to handle/dangerous? Further, even if the traits are heritable, what would be the effect of a nuturing environment on the stallion's offspring? >> Good question. But when I see two stallions, of pretty much "equal" conformation, beauty and talent, and one of them is completely off the wall, and the other one can breed a mare, then go out to do demonstration in dressage later that evening, with other horses around, there is no question which stallion I would like to breed my mare. Nature or nurture, I'm not completely sold on either, but I think I'd have a better chance of having a foal with a good disposition by the latter sire. Pamela
Re: Stallion temperament
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Since I was not at the evaluation, I have no first hand knowledge of why the stallion mentioned was preceived as a danger, although I know enough about how stallions can be to understand the potential. We have two stallions which are noticeably different (one is very low key, the other is always "on"). The question is how much of this is heritable and how much is just because the stallion is virile (i.e., uncut)? That is, would a mare or a gelding out of him also be hard to handle/dangerous? Further, even if the traits are heritable, what would be the effect of a nuturing environment on the stallion's offspring? Any body have any opinions? (Is there a geneticist in the house?)
