Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #38
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 06:15 PM 4/29/98 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: Glen MacGillivray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just some comments about evaluator vs horses traveling: This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip goes a bunch of good stuff Someone on the list was also asking about judges visiting farms to evaluate horses. It was decided in North America that this would not happen. Hopefully, open minds can prevail and decisions need not necessarily be final. The discussion of where and how evaluations can/should be done is an important and interesting one. We should not avoid the issue simply because of an existing paradigm. Well I was not a member of the committee that decided the Evaluation rules but... I think one of the main reasons they decided this way was that they wanted to make sure all of the horses were evaluated on equal ground. This isn't real important with the Conformation part of the eval but it does become real important with the Performance tests. It is thought to be imperitive that they all go through a Standard course. They want to make sure that even the stone boat that is used is the same at all of the evaluations. I think the feeling was that most farms couldn't supply the proper size rings and facilities necessary. Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with all of the rules but I do think it is important to have the tests run on the same size shape courses and do all of the same tests etc. Maybe the tests need to be modified to allow them to be held in smaller facilities. Just my 2 cents... All Evaluations would be held at a neutral facility. This would discourage favoritism and/or encourage impartiality. It simply discourages those with larger distances or lesser financial means from participating. Yes it does. It makes it almost impossible for a breeder in say North or South Carolina, Georgia or Florida to attend one. I believe that it is far more sensible for the evaluator to travel to the horse(s) than for the horses to travel to an evaluation. It's actually rather silly in some ways to think of does of horses traveling hundreds or thousands of miles collectively when a single person, by air, could see all of the horses in a shorter period, in surroundings comfortable for the horse, at lower cost. I do think it has some merit for sure. I think I will bring it up again on one of our BOD meetings. If the evaluation process is going to be useful I think it is going to have to be available to more people/horses. === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry http://www.nfhr.com Mike May, Registrar mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Webster, NY, USA (Suburb of Rochester) Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 ===
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #38
This message is from: Glen MacGillivray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just some comments about evaluator vs horses traveling: This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip goes a bunch of good stuff Someone on the list was also asking about judges visiting farms to evaluate horses. It was decided in North America that this would not happen. Hopefully, open minds can prevail and decisions need not necessarily be final. The discussion of where and how evaluations can/should be done is an important and interesting one. We should not avoid the issue simply because of an existing paradigm. All Evaluations would be held at a neutral facility. This would discourage favoritism and/or encourage impartiality. It simply discourages those with larger distances or lesser financial means from participating. It seems logical to me but like many of you I really feel that N.A. is at a very huge disadvantage due to the size of our continent. I do feel that the NFHR needs to be much more dilligent in promoting these assessments in the future. We have made tremendous headway but there is much much more to be done.Maybe down the road the Registry will be able to afford to hold many more Evaluations so people would not have to travel so far. That's not however stopping breeders from learning all there is to know about evaluation and breed standards etc. That information is available. Educate yourself and recognize the fact that there is a certain amount of barn blindness in all of us. I believe that it is far more sensible for the evaluator to travel to the horse(s) than for the horses to travel to an evaluation. It's actually rather silly in some ways to think of does of horses traveling hundreds or thousands of miles collectively when a single person, by air, could see all of the horses in a shorter period, in surroundings comfortable for the horse, at lower cost. snip of lots more good stuff Just my $ 0.02 Glen MacGillivray [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nray.com/glen.htm
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #38
This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am thrilled with the valuable amount of good information and discussion that is being generated on this list. Hopefully it continues. I just wish I had more time to respond myself but like many of you out there this is a super busy time. Carol you have made some really valuable contributions to date but I do disagree with you about stallion behavior. In my books, bad behavior (testosterone driven or otherwise) is unacceptable in both the equine as well as the human animal. You are probably right, tho, in saying that a stallion handled well from the beginning, as a weanling, has a better chance of behaving mannerly as an adult.It is also important to handle one's breeding routine with care. Our stallions have always been part of our performance stock so we expect them to behave at all times and hence, never take our stallion off the farm to breed. He has a special place in his pen here at home where he conducts 'business' and the routine is always the same. If he encounters mares in any other situation he may only acknowledge their presence with a whinny or snicker but any more than that is discouraged with a stern warning voice. Our present stallion Samstein drives at the wheel with his nose right on a mares tail. He behaves remarkably well even in the spring. I once heard a Norwegian judge call it 'manners and modesty' and Wayne Hipsley (one of the N.A. Evaluation Judges) wants it to be very evident Who's in charge when he's evaluating horses.I agree. Someone on the list was also asking about judges visiting farms to evaluate horses. It was decided in North America that this would not happen. All Evaluations would be held at a neutral facility. This would discourage favoritism and/or encourage impartiality. It seems logical to me but like many of you I really feel that N.A. is at a very huge disadvantage due to the size of our continent. I do feel that the NFHR needs to be much more dilligent in promoting these assessments in the future. We have made tremendous headway but there is much much more to be done.Maybe down the road the Registry will be able to afford to hold many more Evaluations so people would not have to travel so far. That's not however stopping breeders from learning all there is to know about evaluation and breed standards etc. That information is available. Educate yourself and recognize the fact that there is a certain amount of barn blindness in all of us. Dave made some excellent points about horses that are not necessarily breeding stock but can still be wonderful performance animals and pets.Even if you can't affford to take an animal to an Evaluation, it would be helpful for anyone to attend one and get the info that way. Allison had asked if a judge would do an evaluation from a picture. Brian talked to both Wayne Hipsley and Jim Havelhurst(both NFHR qualified judges who will do the Oregon Evaluation in July)last weekend . We are gathering info for the preparatory clinic in Oregon in May so wanted to get an idea of what kinds of things we should pass on to the candidates who will be attending this clinic.They had mentioned getting pictures from owners and being asked for their opinions. We were told that 'they don't go there' simply because you cannot get a true 'picture' of an animal from a picture. One of the reasons there are so many stallions out there is because of distance. For some mare owners it is too expensive to send their mares off to another province/state to breed so they buy a colt and hope it will be grow into a half decent stallion. Does this mean the owness is again on the breeder who sells his offspring uncut even if he knows that the animal is not up to snuff? So many questions and so many points of view. This was going to be very short.HAH!!! gotta run Ursula P.Slast week when I talked about using 'imported' as a hook in marketing I just meant that in the future our N.A. stock would have the same credibility when they achieve a 'Gold' Advanced Medallion of Quality. |---| | Ursula Brian Jensen from Trinity Fjords | | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #38
This message is from: Arthur Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm, Years ago when I first tried to get a European type Evaluation going in the States, I pushed for on farm Evaluation. This idea was not popular because it was thought that if the Evaluation wasn't held in a public place, then breeders could somehow cheat. I think on farm Evaluations' are a great idea for the reasons mentioned in the last Digest. In fact, I remember back in about 1988, when I was promoting this idea, Bob van Bon of the Dutch Studbook said, It's much easier to move judges around than it is to move horses. As far as any subterfuge, I don't think that's a serious concern. Afterall, if we have enough faith in the ability and integrity of the judges to allow them to evaluate our horses against the breed standard, how could we suspect them of being open to influence, bribery, or whatever the fear is. I say that the NFHR should have a strict judges certification program, and then let them to their job in as wide a field as possible. For our farm, it certainly would be cheaper to pay the airfare of a judge to come to Nova Scotia than it would be to ship a trailerload of horses to Vermont, and pay for stabling, hotels, food, gas, etc. And expense is by no means the primary concern. Trailering long distances is stressful, particularly for breeding horses. Regards, Carol Rivoire
