Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex
I couldn't agree more on all counts After twenty some years of programming I can honestly say that starting out with assember was one of the best things i have done, although it would have been nice to have google back then. In the past 50-60 days I have been learning Flex I have gone to bed before 4am once, gotten up after 8.30am once and skipped 20-30% of all nights completely.. In retrospect it would probably have been smarter doing a Hello World instead of a massive project based 90% on custom components and convoluted data access. If you want it bad enough you will make it! --Allan On Dec 2, 2007 5:01 PM, tomeuchre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sheriff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I have been trying to learn flex now for almost 9 month and i pretty much still don't know much to get me anywhere. Just take the right-colored pill and enter the Matrix. Then, you can download the knowledge into your brain directly ;) Or, you can do like most of us that have been programming for 20+ years: work 300-hour months, forget your social life, and drink lots of caffeine. Don't forget to come up for air every now and then. At least today's generation has google. Back in the day, all we had was Knuth (if you have not heard of Knuth, then it may be the problem that you have not gotten it after 9 months at Flex. There are no shortcuts in programming -- either you spend the required amount of time, living through the simple and major mistakes one can (and will) make, or don't bother. Just don't do what I did and start with Assembler. Although it was better in the long run, there's no need for the headaches these days.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex
- Original Message - From: DreamCode To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:18 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex In the past 50-60 days I have been learning Flex I have gone to bed before 4am once, gotten up after 8.30am once and skipped 20-30% of all nights completely. Strangely enough, it's not something I'd be advertising, nor something I can see Adobe promoting as sound practice, though sadly, I know where you are coming from. In retrospect it would probably have been smarter doing a Hello World instead of a massive project based 90% on custom components and convoluted data access. Absolutely. If you want it bad enough you will make it! I've never understood why people are happy to boast they work this way. It's hardly good for the individual, project or industry. Quite honestly, I saw Flex as a way to avoid ridiculous working hours and mad sessions (and I hope one day it turns out that way). YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE A VAMPIRE TO LEARN FLEX! LOL ;-) Paul --Allan
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex
Actually the post has reminded me of a University lecture I had (many, many years ago) where the lecturer gave some incredibly low figure for the number of lines of code written daily by professional programmers. Nobody thought the figure could be so low - after all we cranked out programs at a great rate. It was only after I started working professionally that I really understood what was going on. At university our programs didn't have to work. They had to work 'mostly'. They didn't drive displays for hospital machines nor did they control nuclear reactors. In addition to this, nobody else would work on them, they didn't have to be readable by anyone else, they didn't have to follow any standards. We could churn this stuff out and impress. Then I started work. Suddenly my software was going to be used by thousands of people. If it failed (yes, it did have some assembler) it would corrupt the disc drives it controlled to write data away. Finally, I had to sit down first and design it, talk about it, keep the documentation up to date, co-operate with others and eventually hand it over so others could maintain and develop it further without me. Suddenly I was that professional programmer, suddenly I didn't write much code every day. As far as I know, my code never corrupted any disc drive. Then our lecturer explained that when he spent late nights out at parties, or just went into marathon coding sessions, he usually spent the next day fixing all the stupid things he did the morning after, or the night before. He didn't do the late night thing anymore, or if he did he didn't attempt to write code the morning after. Now I wish my code were as good as that first project I did. I have done the late nights, I have written the bad code, bugs are something I know only too well. One thing I do know is that the more time I spend not coding, the less code I need to write and the better my applications are. I write the least code I can and I produce the fewest components that I can and I often look back and wonder how I spent so long writing so little code, that looks so simple. One great thing about avoiding end to end coding sessions - it allows you to step back from the project and find that simpler approach that just doesn't appear when your head is buried in the code. The gaps between intense coding are important and arguably as productive in taking you out of blind alleys or complicated scenarios that can be simplified. I happen to think that's the best way to be and I'd ask anyone involved in regular code marathons to really consider if it actually helps (either them or the project). I actually used to admire a project manager that used to spend much of his time sat at an empty desk, often reading a newspaper. He always seemed to know the right thing to do and wrote great code. Others thought he just wasted his time. Enough, Paul (hey, I hardly even mentioned documentation. Documentation takes far longer than coding..) - Original Message - From: Paul Andrews To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex - Original Message - From: DreamCode To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:18 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex In the past 50-60 days I have been learning Flex I have gone to bed before 4am once, gotten up after 8.30am once and skipped 20-30% of all nights completely. Strangely enough, it's not something I'd be advertising, nor something I can see Adobe promoting as sound practice, though sadly, I know where you are coming from. In retrospect it would probably have been smarter doing a Hello World instead of a massive project based 90% on custom components and convoluted data access. Absolutely. If you want it bad enough you will make it! I've never understood why people are happy to boast they work this way. It's hardly good for the individual, project or industry. Quite honestly, I saw Flex as a way to avoid ridiculous working hours and mad sessions (and I hope one day it turns out that way). YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE A VAMPIRE TO LEARN FLEX! LOL ;-) Paul --Allan
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex
I agree again. with everything, but unfortunately I don't have an IQ that breaks the bank, so in order for me to keep up with the talented ones I have to work harder :) --Allan On Dec 2, 2007 6:26 PM, aceoohay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as other old timers are sittin' around the diner tellin' lies I can add my two cents. My first language was in High School, Burroughs B200 machine language No assembly required. The question is not how best to teach yourself Flex, but how best to become a programmer. Is Flex the right tool for this? I think it is as good as any, although the event driven model might make some things more challenging (it still bugs the crap outa me from time to time). I believe that teaching yourself the discipline of programming is much more important than whatever language you use to do it. To do this you may want to start by analyzing everyday things that you do or see. For example the next time you go into a restaurant or store, look at how things are laid out and look for the patterns in workflow. Create a game out of how you would improve the systems you see. To do this you will need to break things down into their simplest actions and decisions, and then put them back together. Once you do this a while you will start thinking in modular ways that will help as you develop systems. For me, the best way to teach myself a new language is to read a little and check out some online tutorials until they put me to sleep, and do a Hello World. Once through this phase, (call it the first 2 dates) it's time to do a real program. This is the third date, you take the language to a drive-in, and see whether you can get to third base, or perhaps a home run. If the passion still burns the next day, the next step is to move in together, start a real project. This can be small, but something that is real. I am converting a large inquiry system written in ASP to Flex for my first project, and other than fighting over the Flex's nasty habits of leaving the top off the toothpaste, and leaving its things all around it's going well. This is just how I go about it. Paul --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, tomeuchre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sheriff sherif626@ wrote: So I have been trying to learn flex now for almost 9 month and i pretty much still don't know much to get me anywhere. Just take the right-colored pill and enter the Matrix. Then, you can download the knowledge into your brain directly ;) Or, you can do like most of us that have been programming for 20+ years: work 300-hour months, forget your social life, and drink lots of caffeine. Don't forget to come up for air every now and then. At least today's generation has google. Back in the day, all we had was Knuth (if you have not heard of Knuth, then it may be the problem that you have not gotten it after 9 months at Flex. There are no shortcuts in programming -- either you spend the required amount of time, living through the simple and major mistakes one can (and will) make, or don't bother. Just don't do what I did and start with Assembler. Although it was better in the long run, there's no need for the headaches these days.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Best Way to learn Flex
Set goals that interest you. Interest and 'passion' : ) assists learning. Ralf's url was a nice read. regards, Bjorn On 03/12/2007, at 1:55 PM, DreamCode wrote: I agree again. with everything, but unfortunately I don't have an IQ that breaks the bank, so in order for me to keep up with the talented ones I have to work harder :) --Allan On Dec 2, 2007 6:26 PM, aceoohay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as other old timers are sittin' around the diner tellin' lies I can add my two cents. My first language was in High School, Burroughs B200 machine language No assembly required. The question is not how best to teach yourself Flex, but how best to become a programmer. Is Flex the right tool for this? I think it is as good as any, although the event driven model might make some things more challenging (it still bugs the crap outa me from time to time). I believe that teaching yourself the discipline of programming is much more important than whatever language you use to do it. To do this you may want to start by analyzing everyday things that you do or see. For example the next time you go into a restaurant or store, look at how things are laid out and look for the patterns in workflow. Create a game out of how you would improve the systems you see. To do this you will need to break things down into their simplest actions and decisions, and then put them back together. Once you do this a while you will start thinking in modular ways that will help as you develop systems. For me, the best way to teach myself a new language is to read a little and check out some online tutorials until they put me to sleep, and do a Hello World. Once through this phase, (call it the first 2 dates) it's time to do a real program. This is the third date, you take the language to a drive-in, and see whether you can get to third base, or perhaps a home run. If the passion still burns the next day, the next step is to move in together, start a real project. This can be small, but something that is real. I am converting a large inquiry system written in ASP to Flex for my first project, and other than fighting over the Flex's nasty habits of leaving the top off the toothpaste, and leaving its things all around it's going well. This is just how I go about it. Paul --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, tomeuchre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Sheriff sherif626@ wrote: So I have been trying to learn flex now for almost 9 month and i pretty much still don't know much to get me anywhere. Just take the right-colored pill and enter the Matrix. Then, you can download the knowledge into your brain directly ;) Or, you can do like most of us that have been programming for 20+ years: work 300-hour months, forget your social life, and drink lots of caffeine. Don't forget to come up for air every now and then. At least today's generation has google. Back in the day, all we had was Knuth (if you have not heard of Knuth, then it may be the problem that you have not gotten it after 9 months at Flex. There are no shortcuts in programming -- either you spend the required amount of time, living through the simple and major mistakes one can (and will) make, or don't bother. Just don't do what I did and start with Assembler. Although it was better in the long run, there's no need for the headaches these days.
