[Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Jeff Singer]

My Flex-5000 is utterly deaf below the U.S. AM broadcast band. Can't even
pick up
local airport Non-Directional Beacons. 

But I do some longwave listening with my old Kenwood TS-850/HF vertical and
often 
hear European AM broadcast stations in the 150-200 kHz range even from my
QTH in 
Missouri. Radio France Inter can often be heard from local sunset until
sunrise 
in Europe on 162 kKHz. The BBC station on 198 kHz is almost as loud. 

It's easy to assume that these signals are spurs from local AM stations but 
they make the very long trip using immense power, often above a megawatt.
Even
very low power 600-meter ham beacons around 500 kHz can be heard over most
of 
the U.S.

Don't sell longwave short.

Jeff 
K0OD
   


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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - Technical Info

[Drax Felton]

Isnt long wave where amateur radio got its start anyhow?   We've come full 
circle.



Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 17, 2012, at 11:01 PM, Ken Alexander  wrote:

> I took my Flex-1500 down and found a few stations in the new band tonight!  
> First was WE2XGR/1 on 506.3 with a CW beacon.  He was 579 and would have been 
> an easy QSO.  Of course, there's currently no QRM!  He's located in FN42hi 
> and I'm in FN04gc.
> 
> I also heard what sounded like someone calling CQ in JT65x.  Can't tell what 
> mode for sure because I don't have WSJT installed on this computer yet.  He 
> was on 497.5 kHz and had a strong signal.
> 
> Luckily the 600m band is above where the front end filter on my 1500 cuts out 
> so I'm able to listen here without any trouble.  Antenna is a Wellbrook Loop 
> sitting on the ground and currently leaning against my landlord's garden 
> shed.  I'll be setting it up on a TV antenna tripod (on the ground) with a 
> rotor this weekend.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Ken Alexander
> VE3HLS
> 
> 
> On 16/02/2012 1:32 PM, Lloyd Berg N9LB wrote:
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> While the 1 watt to 5 watt power seems small, it really isn't because the 
>> specification is Effective Radiated Power.  An efficient dipole antenna at 
>> this frequency would be about 1000 feet long, a 1/4 wave vertical would be 
>> over 500 feet tall.
>> 
>> If you are running a 60 foot vertical ( requiring a huge matching network ), 
>> your efficiency would only be a few percent, therefore your transmitter 
>> power output would be somewhere around 100 watts.
>> 
>> That is still very low communications power, but quite suitable for CW and 
>> some digital modes over 100's of miles - maybe more.
>> 
>> I plan to gear up for it and be ready to go on the first day operation 
>> becomes legal.  Yes I'll be using my FLEX-5000.  Transmitting will probably 
>> require some form of low frequency transverter.  Receiving might just 
>> require filtering and possibly a pre-amp.
>> 
>> I'm looking forward to exploring a whole new band!
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Lloyd - N9LB
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:55:14 -0800
>> From: " Robert Costa, KB6QXM " 
>> To: " Stephen Victor " , "
>> flexradio@flex-radio.biz " 
>> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band
>> Message-ID: <648839.89845...@smtp217.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> 1 watt maximum EIRP. Big deal.
>> 
>> Not too exciting news. I am glad to hear that we have some Medium Frequency 
>> spectrum, but 1 watt output and the size of the antenna is almost not worth 
>> the effort. The requirements remind me of the lowfer band (160-190 khz) 
>> limitations.
>> 
>> This is almost part 15 output.
>> How about giving back the lower portion of the 220 band.
>> 
>> 
>> 73,
>> Robert
>> KB6QXM
>> "Ham Radio Open Conversation"
>> Yahoo group owner/moderator
>> ___
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Ken Alexander]

I'm surprised the Flex-5000 is so deaf.  My 1500 receives perfectly well down 
to about 480 something kilohertz, then the bandpass filter clicks out and all 
heck breaks loose.  Lots of room to hear most of  the 600m band.  I guess 
there's something different in the hardware...well, there's a ton different in 
the hardware!

I built a simple lowpass filter that opens the longwave band up right down to 
100 kHz.  It probably works down further but there's not much down that far 
that can be decoded with one's own ears.


"Don't sell longwave short."

I see a new bumper sticker in there somewhere!  :-)

73,

Ken
VE3HLS




 From: Jeff Singer 
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:02:51 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
 
My Flex-5000 is utterly deaf below the U.S. AM broadcast band. Can't even
pick up
local airport Non-Directional Beacons. 

But I do some longwave listening with my old Kenwood TS-850/HF vertical and
often 
hear European AM broadcast stations in the 150-200 kHz range even from my
QTH in 
Missouri. Radio France Inter can often be heard from local sunset until
sunrise 
in Europe on 162 kKHz. The BBC station on 198 kHz is almost as loud. 

It's easy to assume that these signals are spurs from local AM stations but 
they make the very long trip using immense power, often above a megawatt.
Even
very low power 600-meter ham beacons around 500 kHz can be heard over most
of 
the U.S.

Don't sell longwave short.

Jeff 
K0OD
  


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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Robert Costa, KB6QXM]

As I have mentioned, I and many other hams have the desire to listen down at 
those frequencies with our Flex radios. What I have not heard is an official 
comment on the specifications are at below 1.8 mhz. From what I have heard it 
is best just to use an upconverter that will output at a frequency that Flex 
has designed the radio for. All is quiet on the official word front.

Does anyone know when the secondary basis goes into affect? The 1 watt ERP is 
nothing to write home about. At least there are no antenna restrictions as in 
the Lowfer hobby. Maybe this new allocation will spark more interest in hams 
wanting to experiment with the lowfer,medfer and highfer experimental 
frequencies. If you do not know anything about these non licensed part 15 
bands, just go onto the longwave club of America's website. There are some of 
the same allocations given to other countries.

Radio communications is a great hobby, it does bot have to be restricted to the 
amateur frequencies.

73,
Robert
KB6QXM
"Ham Radio Open Conversation"
Yahoo group owner/moderator


- Reply message -
From: "Ken Alexander" 
To: "Jeff Singer" , "flexradio@flex-radio.biz" 

Subject: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
Date: Sun, Feb 19, 2012 7:32 am


I'm surprised the Flex-5000 is so deaf.  My 1500 receives perfectly well down 
to about 480 something kilohertz, then the bandpass filter clicks out and all 
heck breaks loose.  Lots of room to hear most of  the 600m band.  I guess 
there's something different in the hardware...well, there's a ton different in 
the hardware!

I built a simple lowpass filter that opens the longwave band up right down to 
100 kHz.  It probably works down further but there's not much down that far 
that can be decoded with one's own ears.


"Don't sell longwave short."

I see a new bumper sticker in there somewhere!  :-)

73,

Ken
VE3HLS




 From: Jeff Singer 
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:02:51 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
 
My Flex-5000 is utterly deaf below the U.S. AM broadcast band. Can't even
pick up
local airport Non-Directional Beacons. 

But I do some longwave listening with my old Kenwood TS-850/HF vertical and
often 
hear European AM broadcast stations in the 150-200 kHz range even from my
QTH in 
Missouri. Radio France Inter can often be heard from local sunset until
sunrise 
in Europe on 162 kKHz. The BBC station on 198 kHz is almost as loud. 

It's easy to assume that these signals are spurs from local AM stations but 
they make the very long trip using immense power, often above a megawatt.
Even
very low power 600-meter ham beacons around 500 kHz can be heard over most
of 
the U.S.

Don't sell longwave short.

Jeff 
K0OD
  


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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - Technical Info

[Brian Lloyd]

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:

> Isnt long wave where amateur radio got its start anyhow?   We've come full
> circle.
>

Yeah, probably. Heinrich Hertz' initial experiments were in the microwave
spectrum but Marconi ended up going for longer and longer waves. By the
time wireless communications became commercial anything shorter than 200m
was considered unusable. As a result hams were forced into that spectrum.
But experimentation showed it was in many ways more usable than the long
waves.

I am not sure why I would want to operate at 600m tho'.

-- 
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Jeff Singer]

Ken, I was likewise surprised by your statement about successfully using the
Flex-1500 to receive 600 meter ham beacons.  I've read Flex discussion
boards for several years. To the very limited degree that users comment on
the lowfer receive performance of Flex radios, posts have always suggested
the 3000 and 5000 are worthless below the BCB (and perhaps not great even on
the AM BCB).  I wonder what's so different about the 1500 in that regard. 

 

I agree with KB6QXM that the upcoming allocation should once again "Spark"
[his term] ham interest in lowfer radio so we "Don't Sell Longwave Short."

 

Jeff

K0OD

 

  

 

From: Ken Alexander [mailto:k.alexan...@rogers.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:32 AM
To: Jeff Singer; flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

 

I'm surprised the Flex-5000 is so deaf.  My 1500 receives perfectly well
down to about 480 something kilohertz, then the bandpass filter clicks out
and all heck breaks loose.  Lots of room to hear most of  the 600m band.  I
guess there's something different in the hardware...well, there's a ton
different in the hardware!

 

I built a simple lowpass filter that opens the longwave band up right down
to 100 kHz.  It probably works down further but there's not much down that
far that can be decoded with one's own ears.

 

"Don't sell longwave short."

 

I see a new bumper sticker in there somewhere!  :-)

 

73,

 

Ken

VE3HLS

 

 

  _  

From: Jeff Singer 
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:02:51 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX


My Flex-5000 is utterly deaf below the U.S. AM broadcast band. Can't even
pick up local airport Non-Directional Beacons. 

But I do some longwave listening with my old Kenwood TS-850/HF vertical and
often hear European AM broadcast stations in the 150-200 kHz range even from
my
QTH in Missouri. Radio France Inter can often be heard from local sunset
until
sunrise in Europe on 162 kHz. The BBC station on 198 kHz is almost as loud. 

It's easy to assume that these signals are spurs from local AM stations but 
they make the very long trip using immense power, often above a megawatt.
Even very low power 600-meter ham beacons around 500 kHz can be heard over
most
of  the U.S.

Don't sell longwave short.

Jeff 
K0OD
  
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Leif Asbrink]

Hi Jeff and all,

> But I do some longwave listening with my old Kenwood TS-850/HF 
> vertical and often hear European AM broadcast stations in the 
> 150-200 kHz range even from my QTH in Missouri. Radio France 
> Inter can often be heard from local sunset until
> sunrise in Europe on 162 kHz. The BBC station on 198 kHz is 
> almost as loud. 
Interesting. This means that your S/N for these stations is
somethinh like 3 dB in 5kHz bandwidth or perhaps better.

> It's easy to assume that these signals are spurs from 
> local AM stations but they make the very long trip using 
> immense power, often above a megawatt. Even very low 
> power 600-meter ham beacons around 500 kHz can be heard 
> over most of the U.S.

Your observation that 1 MW will give a reasonable trans-
atlantic signal in AM bandwidth means that 1W will give
a reasonable signal in 5 mHz (milliHz) bandwidth.

We can easily communicate with QRSS if Rx and Tx are frequency
stable enough. Have a look at this page:
http://sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/usage/am1030.htm 
Figure 7 shows AM carriers at a bandwidth of 3 mHz. Look at
the signals around 1029.9975 kHz. There is no question
that amateur QRSS would be perfectly reliable as a transatlantic
communication link. With 3mHz bandwidth each FFT would have to
span a time of something like 600 seconds (with a sine squared
window) For good QRSS one might need 5 waterfall lines for
a Morse code dot. The speed would be one dot in half an hour.
One would not be able to transmit more than one or two
letters in a whole night. I could transmit a qrss "L" in
5 hours on a random frequency in the band. Everyone in EU or
in the US with any interest could report back my frequency
and signal level. Not really a QSO, but simple with existing
hardware and software.

We can however develop much smarter coding than Morse coded
CW:-) 

> Don't sell longwave short.
I do not follow the development, but I would guess interesting
things already happen on 137 kHz. Now there will be two bands
where really narrow bandwidth is possible.

73

Leif / SM5BSZ



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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - Technical Info

[Jerry Flanders]

At 11:40 AM 2/19/2012, Brian Lloyd wrote:

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:

> Isnt long wave where amateur radio got its start anyhow?   We've come full
> circle.
>

Yeah, probably. Heinrich Hertz' initial experiments were in the microwave
spectrum but Marconi ended up going for longer and longer waves. By the
time wireless communications became commercial anything shorter than 200m
was considered unusable. As a result hams were forced into that spectrum.
But experimentation showed it was in many ways more usable than the long
waves.

I am not sure why I would want to operate at 600m tho'.

--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL


Same reason that people want to climb mountains... because they are there.

According to the history I learned about Ham radio the reason we got 
the shorter waves is that there was a solar minimum at the time the 
spectrum was being evaluated, and it looked like the short waves were 
not commercially valuable.


Jerry W4UK 



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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Jerry Flanders]

At 11:41 AM 2/19/2012, Jeff Singer wrote:

Ken, I was likewise surprised by your statement about successfully using the
Flex-1500 to receive 600 meter ham beacons.  I've read Flex discussion
boards for several years. To the very limited degree that users comment on
the lowfer receive performance of Flex radios, posts have always suggested
the 3000 and 5000 are worthless below the BCB (and perhaps not great even on
the AM BCB).  I wonder what's so different about the 1500 in that regard.




Flex has similar frequency coverage specs for all radios, but 
mentions that additional preselectors or filters are required below 
1.8 MHz, even for the 1500. I remember reading that the 5000 has a 
superior set of filters, so it may appear "deader" below 1.8 MHz than 
the other radios.


http://www.flexradio.com/Products.aspx?topic=SDR_Feature_Matrix#notes

Seems to me this is an opportunity for a third party 
kitter/manufacturer to supply an outboard preamp+filter product.


Jerry W4UK


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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Greg Zenger [N2GZ]]

I bet Flex has or, or plans to do, some market research to determine if it
is viable to develop an upgrade, accessory, or new product that is capable
of 600m.  I imagine being first-to-market with a radio that can cover the
new band could be good for business.

Greg, N2GZ/1

-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Jerry Flanders
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 12:59 PM
To: Jeff Singer; 'Ken Alexander'; flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

At 11:41 AM 2/19/2012, Jeff Singer wrote:
>Ken, I was likewise surprised by your statement about successfully using
the
>Flex-1500 to receive 600 meter ham beacons.  I've read Flex discussion
>boards for several years. To the very limited degree that users comment on
>the lowfer receive performance of Flex radios, posts have always suggested
>the 3000 and 5000 are worthless below the BCB (and perhaps not great even
on
>the AM BCB).  I wonder what's so different about the 1500 in that regard.
>
>

Flex has similar frequency coverage specs for all radios, but 
mentions that additional preselectors or filters are required below 
1.8 MHz, even for the 1500. I remember reading that the 5000 has a 
superior set of filters, so it may appear "deader" below 1.8 MHz than 
the other radios.

http://www.flexradio.com/Products.aspx?topic=SDR_Feature_Matrix#notes

Seems to me this is an opportunity for a third party 
kitter/manufacturer to supply an outboard preamp+filter product.

Jerry W4UK


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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - Technical Info

[Bill Tynan]

Exect for Heinrich Hertz, whoes work was at about 1 meter (300 MHz), long 
wave is where EVERYTHING  started.


73,

Bill, W3XO
- Original Message - 
From: "Drax Felton" 

Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - Technical Info


Isnt long wave where amateur radio got its start anyhow?   We've come full 
circle.




Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 17, 2012, at 11:01 PM, Ken Alexander  
wrote:


I took my Flex-1500 down and found a few stations in the new band 
tonight!  First was WE2XGR/1 on 506.3 with a CW beacon.  He was 579 and 
would have been an easy QSO.  Of course, there's currently no QRM!  He's 
located in FN42hi and I'm in FN04gc.


I also heard what sounded like someone calling CQ in JT65x.  Can't tell 
what mode for sure because I don't have WSJT installed on this computer 
yet.  He was on 497.5 kHz and had a strong signal.


Luckily the 600m band is above where the front end filter on my 1500 cuts 
out so I'm able to listen here without any trouble.  Antenna is a 
Wellbrook Loop sitting on the ground and currently leaning against my 
landlord's garden shed.  I'll be setting it up on a TV antenna tripod (on 
the ground) with a rotor this weekend.


73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS


On 16/02/2012 1:32 PM, Lloyd Berg N9LB wrote:


All,

While the 1 watt to 5 watt power seems small, it really isn't because 
the specification is Effective Radiated Power.  An efficient dipole 
antenna at this frequency would be about 1000 feet long, a 1/4 wave 
vertical would be over 500 feet tall.


If you are running a 60 foot vertical ( requiring a huge matching 
network ), your efficiency would only be a few percent, therefore your 
transmitter power output would be somewhere around 100 watts.


That is still very low communications power, but quite suitable for CW 
and some digital modes over 100's of miles - maybe more.


I plan to gear up for it and be ready to go on the first day operation 
becomes legal.  Yes I'll be using my FLEX-5000.  Transmitting will 
probably require some form of low frequency transverter.  Receiving 
might just require filtering and possibly a pre-amp.


I'm looking forward to exploring a whole new band!

73

Lloyd - N9LB

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:55:14 -0800
From: " Robert Costa, KB6QXM " 
To: " Stephen Victor " , "
flexradio@flex-radio.biz " 
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band
Message-ID: <648839.89845...@smtp217.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

1 watt maximum EIRP. Big deal.

Not too exciting news. I am glad to hear that we have some Medium 
Frequency spectrum, but 1 watt output and the size of the antenna is 
almost not worth the effort. The requirements remind me of the lowfer 
band (160-190 khz) limitations.


This is almost part 15 output.
How about giving back the lower portion of the 220 band.


73,
Robert
KB6QXM
"Ham Radio Open Conversation"
Yahoo group owner/moderator
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[Flexradio] remove me

[James Sheehan]

Hi Can you please remove from the email list

Thank you

James KC1CS
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Re: [Flexradio] remove me

[Richard Clafton]

You remove yourself...

http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz

--
Richard A Clafton | the brITish guy | W5\G7EIX
RIROC - Hosting -  Development - Technology
http://www.riroc.com | rclaf...@riroc.com
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though often better than the master of 
one."

-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz 
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of James
Sheehan
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 3:23 PM
To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: [Flexradio] remove me

Hi Can you please remove from the email list

Thank you

James KC1CS
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Ralph W5JGV]

> My Flex-5000 is utterly deaf below the U.S. AM broadcast band. Can't even
> pick up local airport Non-Directional Beacons.


My F5K has RX2 installed.  I have noticed that the sensitivity of RX1 is 37
dB poorer than RX2.

AT 7 MHz, the gain difference between the two receivers is only 1 dB.

And yes, an external low pass filter is an absolute must with the F5K for
600 meters.

The TX is virtually useless, IMHO.

73,

Ralph  W5JGV - WD2XSH/7'


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[Flexradio] 60M Channel 1

[Roger Cole]

Decided to take a look at the 60M band capability of the Flex 5000A.  Not sure 
what I am doing wrong but I get no power out on Channel 1.  The other four 
channels appear to work fine.  What am I missing?  
Thanks,
Roger/N5IFH


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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Ken Alexander]

Hi Jeff,

I bought the Flex-1500 to use mainly as a mediumwave DXing receiver.  The fact 
that it transmits is a bonus.  Our local ham dealer said he has sold many 1500s 
to SWLs.  As a DXing receiver it's $250 cheaper than the SDR competition and 
does the job very well.  The 3000 and 5000 have even better receiver specs, but 
then you're paying for a lot more equipment than an SWL needs. 

I've never heard much in the 137 kHz allocation but have already logged a few 
stations on 600m, which interests me greatly.  I'll be keeping an eye on the 
band from now on.

73 - Ken




 From: Jeff Singer 
To: 'Ken Alexander' ; flexradio@flex-radio.biz 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:41:48 AM
Subject: RE: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
 

Ken, I was likewise surprised by your statement about successfully using the 
Flex-1500 to receive 600 meter ham beacons.  I’ve read Flex discussion boards 
for several years. To the very limited degree that users comment on the lowfer 
receive performance of Flex radios, posts have always suggested the 3000 and 
5000 are worthless below the BCB (and perhaps not great even on the AM BCB).  I 
wonder what’s so different about the 1500 in that regard. 
 
I agree with KB6QXM that the upcoming allocation should once again “Spark” [his 
term] ham interest in lowfer radio so we “Don’t Sell Longwave Short.”
 
Jeff
K0OD
 
  
 
From:Ken Alexander [mailto:k.alexan...@rogers.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:32 AM
To: Jeff Singer; flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
 
I'm surprised the Flex-5000 is so deaf.  My 1500 receives perfectly well down 
to about 480 something kilohertz, then the bandpass filter clicks out and all 
heck breaks loose.  Lots of room to hear most of  the 600m band.  I guess 
there's something different in the hardware...well, there's a ton different in 
the hardware!
 
I built a simple lowpass filter that opens the longwave band up right down to 
100 kHz.  It probably works down further but there's not much down that far 
that can be decoded with one's own ears.
 
"Don't sell longwave short."
 
I see a new bumper sticker in there somewhere!  :-)
 
73,
 
Ken
VE3HLS
 
 



From:Jeff Singer 
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:02:51 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

My Flex-5000 is utterly deaf below the U.S. AM broadcast band. Can't even
pick uplocal airport Non-Directional Beacons. 

But I do some longwave listening with my old Kenwood TS-850/HF vertical and
often hear European AM broadcast stations in the 150-200 kHz range even from my
QTH inMissouri. Radio France Inter can often be heard from local sunset until
sunrise in Europe on 162 kHz. The BBC station on 198 kHz is almost as loud. 

It's easy to assume that these signals are spurs from local AM stations but 
they make the very long trip using immense power, often above a megawatt.
Evenvery low power 600-meter ham beacons around 500 kHz can be heard over most
of  the U.S.

Don't sell longwave short.

Jeff 
K0OD
  
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Ken Alexander]

I just checked on my 1500 and what I notice is that when I change frequency 
from 481 kHz to 480kHz whatever filter is currently in the front end is 
removed/bypassed because and the receiver front end is wide open to everything 
from mediumwave stations to hams participating in the ARRL DX contest this 
weekend.  It becomes a total mess.

I designed a lowpass filter that rolls off at 400 kHz.  I chose 400 kHz because 
then there's sufficient attenuation at the lower mediumwave band.  If I 
designed it to roll off at 500 kHz then some strong locals on 530 and 590 would 
bleed through.

One or two people have asked me to share the design I came up with.  I'm happy 
to do that and as soon as I put it in readable form I'll let everybody know and 
they can roll their own.

73 - Ken



 From: Jerry Flanders 
To: Jeff Singer ; 'Ken Alexander' ; 
flexradio@flex-radio.biz 
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 12:58:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
 
At 11:41 AM 2/19/2012, Jeff Singer wrote:
>Ken, I was likewise surprised by your statement about successfully using the
>Flex-1500 to receive 600 meter ham beacons.  I've read Flex discussion
>boards for several years. To the very limited degree that users comment on
>the lowfer receive performance of Flex radios, posts have always suggested
>the 3000 and 5000 are worthless below the BCB (and perhaps not great even on
>the AM BCB).  I wonder what's so different about the 1500 in that regard.
>
>

Flex has similar frequency coverage specs for all radios, but 
mentions that additional preselectors or filters are required below 
1.8 MHz, even for the 1500. I remember reading that the 5000 has a 
superior set of filters, so it may appear "deader" below 1.8 MHz than 
the other radios.

http://www.flexradio.com/Products.aspx?topic=SDR_Feature_Matrix#notes

Seems to me this is an opportunity for a third party 
kitter/manufacturer to supply an outboard preamp+filter product.

Jerry W4UK
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Jerry Flanders]

Surprised at your observation, I checked my 5000a and noticed that if 
RX1 preamp is off, I get same results on both RXes at 485 KHz, but if 
RX1 preamp is on, the baselines are different and I see an apparent 
difference of  30-something dB.


Are you using the same settings on both receivers?

Jerry W4UK

At 04:46 PM 2/19/2012, Ralph W5JGV wrote:

> My Flex-5000 is utterly deaf below the U.S. AM broadcast band. Can't even
> pick up local airport Non-Directional Beacons.


My F5K has RX2 installed.  I have noticed that the sensitivity of RX1 is 37
dB poorer than RX2.

AT 7 MHz, the gain difference between the two receivers is only 1 dB.

And yes, an external low pass filter is an absolute must with the F5K for
600 meters.

The TX is virtually useless, IMHO.

73,

Ralph  W5JGV - WD2XSH/7'


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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Brian Lloyd]

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:

> I just checked on my 1500 and what I notice is that when I change
> frequency from 481 kHz to 480kHz whatever filter is currently in the front
> end is removed/bypassed because and the receiver front end is wide open to
> everything from mediumwave stations to hams participating in the ARRL DX
> contest this weekend.  It becomes a total mess.
>
> I designed a lowpass filter that rolls off at 400 kHz.  I chose 400 kHz
> because then there's sufficient attenuation at the lower mediumwave band.
> If I designed it to roll off at 500 kHz then some strong locals on 530 and
> 590 would bleed through.
>
> One or two people have asked me to share the design I came up with.  I'm
> happy to do that and as soon as I put it in readable form I'll let
> everybody know and they can roll their own.
>

You might also want to consider a sharp, two stage, tunable, LC bandpass
filter. We are only talking about a band that is 7kHz wide. I would think
that a lowpass filter would be difficult to make and a simple tunable
bandpass "preselector" would work better.

One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the
built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external filter.

-- 
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Ken Alexander]

> One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the 
built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external 
filter.

It's not an option, but that's what my 1500 does right out of the box.  The 
front end filters (appear to) cut out when I tune down from 481 kHz.  All is 
well on 481.  It's a total mess on 480 kHz and below.

73 - Ken




 From: Brian Lloyd 
To: Ken Alexander  
Cc: Jerry Flanders ; Jeff Singer ; 
"flexradio@flex-radio.biz"  
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
 




On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Ken Alexander  wrote:

I just checked on my 1500 and what I notice is that when I change frequency 
from 481 kHz to 480kHz whatever filter is currently in the front end is 
removed/bypassed because and the receiver front end is wide open to everything 
from mediumwave stations to hams participating in the ARRL DX contest this 
weekend.  It becomes a total mess.
>
>I designed a lowpass filter that rolls off at 400 kHz.  I chose 400 kHz 
>because then there's sufficient attenuation at the lower mediumwave band.  If 
>I designed it to roll off at 500 kHz then some strong locals on 530 and 590 
>would bleed through.
>
>One or two people have asked me to share the design I came up with.  I'm happy 
>to do that and as soon as I put it in readable form I'll let everybody know 
>and they can roll their own.
>

You might also want to consider a sharp, two stage, tunable, LC bandpass 
filter. We are only talking about a band that is 7kHz wide. I would think that 
a lowpass filter would be difficult to make and a simple tunable bandpass 
"preselector" would work better. 

One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the built-in 
front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external filter.
-- 
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Tim Ellison, W4TME]

The FLEX-1500's low frequency hardware band pass filter starts to roll 
off @ 490 KHz very rapidly.


Tim Ellison, W4TME
Product Management, Sales & Support
FlexRadio Systems^(TM)
4616 W Howard Ln, Suite 1-150
Austin, TX 78728
Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223
Email: t...@flexradio.com 
Web: www.flexradio.com 

logo


On 2/19/2012 8:12 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:

One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the

built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external
filter.

It's not an option, but that's what my 1500 does right out of the box.  The 
front end filters (appear to) cut out when I tune down from 481 kHz.  All is 
well on 481.  It's a total mess on 480 kHz and below.

73 - Ken




  From: Brian Lloyd
To: Ken Alexander
Cc: Jerry Flanders; Jeff Singer; 
"flexradio@flex-radio.biz"
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:03:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX





On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Ken Alexander  wrote:

I just checked on my 1500 and what I notice is that when I change frequency 
from 481 kHz to 480kHz whatever filter is currently in the front end is 
removed/bypassed because and the receiver front end is wide open to everything 
from mediumwave stations to hams participating in the ARRL DX contest this 
weekend.  It becomes a total mess.

I designed a lowpass filter that rolls off at 400 kHz.  I chose 400 kHz because 
then there's sufficient attenuation at the lower mediumwave band.  If I 
designed it to roll off at 500 kHz then some strong locals on 530 and 590 would 
bleed through.

One or two people have asked me to share the design I came up with.  I'm happy 
to do that and as soon as I put it in readable form I'll let everybody know and 
they can roll their own.

You might also want to consider a sharp, two stage, tunable, LC bandpass filter. We are only talking about a band that is 7kHz wide. I would think that a lowpass filter would be difficult to make and a simple tunable bandpass "preselector" would work better. 


One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the built-in 
front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external filter.

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Re: [Flexradio] 60M Channel 1

[Tim Ellison, W4TME]

Look to see of the DRIVE setting is different on that channel as opposed 
to the others.


You can also try a reset to Factory defaults in the Setup form.

Tim Ellison, W4TME
Product Management, Sales & Support
FlexRadio Systems^(TM)
4616 W Howard Ln, Suite 1-150
Austin, TX 78728
Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223
Email: t...@flexradio.com 
Web: www.flexradio.com 

logo


On 2/19/2012 5:12 PM, Roger Cole wrote:

Decided to take a look at the 60M band capability of the Flex 5000A.  Not sure 
what I am doing wrong but I get no power out on Channel 1.  The other four 
channels appear to work fine.  What am I missing?
Thanks,
Roger/N5IFH


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4819 - Release Date: 02/19/12
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Robert Costa, KB6QXM]

Tim,

Any comments on the filter rolloff in the 3000 and the 5000a?

73,
Robert
KB6QXM
"Ham Radio Open Conversation"
Yahoo group owner/moderator


- Reply message -
From: "Tim Ellison, W4TME" 
To: 
Subject: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
Date: Sun, Feb 19, 2012 5:19 pm


The FLEX-1500's low frequency hardware band pass filter starts to roll 
off @ 490 KHz very rapidly.

Tim Ellison, W4TME
Product Management, Sales & Support
FlexRadio Systems^(TM)
4616 W Howard Ln, Suite 1-150
Austin, TX 78728
Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223
Email: t...@flexradio.com 
Web: www.flexradio.com 

logo


On 2/19/2012 8:12 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:
>> One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the
> built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external
> filter.
>
> It's not an option, but that's what my 1500 does right out of the box.  The 
> front end filters (appear to) cut out when I tune down from 481 kHz.  All is 
> well on 481.  It's a total mess on 480 kHz and below.
>
> 73 - Ken
>
>
>
> 
>   From: Brian Lloyd
> To: Ken Alexander
> Cc: Jerry Flanders; Jeff Singer; 
> "flexradio@flex-radio.biz"
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:03:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Ken Alexander  wrote:
>
> I just checked on my 1500 and what I notice is that when I change frequency 
> from 481 kHz to 480kHz whatever filter is currently in the front end is 
> removed/bypassed because and the receiver front end is wide open to 
> everything from mediumwave stations to hams participating in the ARRL DX 
> contest this weekend.  It becomes a total mess.
>> I designed a lowpass filter that rolls off at 400 kHz.  I chose 400 kHz 
>> because then there's sufficient attenuation at the lower mediumwave band.  
>> If I designed it to roll off at 500 kHz then some strong locals on 530 and 
>> 590 would bleed through.
>>
>> One or two people have asked me to share the design I came up with.  I'm 
>> happy to do that and as soon as I put it in readable form I'll let everybody 
>> know and they can roll their own.
>>
> You might also want to consider a sharp, two stage, tunable, LC bandpass 
> filter. We are only talking about a band that is 7kHz wide. I would think 
> that a lowpass filter would be difficult to make and a simple tunable 
> bandpass "preselector" would work better. 
>
> One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the 
> built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external filter.
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Drax Felton]

All I hear on 472-479 on my Flex 5000 is a bunch of unintelligible broadcast
images.

-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Jerry Flanders
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 6:19 PM
To: w5...@w5jgv.com; flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

Surprised at your observation, I checked my 5000a and noticed that if
RX1 preamp is off, I get same results on both RXes at 485 KHz, but if
RX1 preamp is on, the baselines are different and I see an apparent
difference of  30-something dB.



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[Flexradio] cw

[n123js]

Hi,
I have a Flex3000, when I plug a straight key in the front panel,  with the 
break-in checked I get a steady tone. If I hit the key it goes to dah dah 
dah
If I pull the key plug part way out of the key jack, it works normal. what do I 
have set wrong??
thanks,
73,Johnnie W6HTY
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Tim Ellison, W4TME]

They do not go that low.  I'll have to look it up and respond tomorrow.

Tim Ellison, W4TME
Product Management, Sales & Support
FlexRadio Systems™
4616 W Howard Ln, Suite 1-150
Austin, TX 78728
Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223
Email: t...@flexradio.com 
Web: www.flexradio.com 

logo


On 2/19/2012 8:38 PM, Robert Costa, KB6QXM wrote:

Tim,

Any comments on the filter rolloff in the 3000 and the 5000a?

73,
Robert
KB6QXM
"Ham Radio Open Conversation"
Yahoo group owner/moderator


- Reply message -
From: "Tim Ellison, W4TME" 
To: 
Subject: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
Date: Sun, Feb 19, 2012 5:19 pm


The FLEX-1500's low frequency hardware band pass filter starts to roll
off @ 490 KHz very rapidly.

Tim Ellison, W4TME
Product Management, Sales & Support
FlexRadio Systems^(TM)
4616 W Howard Ln, Suite 1-150
Austin, TX 78728
Phone: 512-535-4713 Ext. 223
Email: t...@flexradio.com 
Web: www.flexradio.com 

logo


On 2/19/2012 8:12 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:
>> One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the
> built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external
> filter.
>
> It's not an option, but that's what my 1500 does right out of the 
box.  The front end filters (appear to) cut out when I tune down from 
481 kHz.  All is well on 481.  It's a total mess on 480 kHz and below.

>
> 73 - Ken
>
>
>
> 
>   From: Brian Lloyd
> To: Ken Alexander
> Cc: Jerry Flanders; Jeff 
Singer; 
"flexradio@flex-radio.biz"

> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:03:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Ken 
Alexander  wrote:

>
> I just checked on my 1500 and what I notice is that when I change 
frequency from 481 kHz to 480kHz whatever filter is currently in the 
front end is removed/bypassed because and the receiver front end is 
wide open to everything from mediumwave stations to hams participating 
in the ARRL DX contest this weekend.  It becomes a total mess.
>> I designed a lowpass filter that rolls off at 400 kHz.  I chose 400 
kHz because then there's sufficient attenuation at the lower 
mediumwave band.  If I designed it to roll off at 500 kHz then some 
strong locals on 530 and 590 would bleed through.

>>
>> One or two people have asked me to share the design I came up with. 
 I'm happy to do that and as soon as I put it in readable form I'll 
let everybody know and they can roll their own.

>>
> You might also want to consider a sharp, two stage, tunable, LC 
bandpass filter. We are only talking about a band that is 7kHz wide. I 
would think that a lowpass filter would be difficult to make and a 
simple tunable bandpass "preselector" would work better.

>
> One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass 
the built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external 
filter.

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Re: [Flexradio] cw

[Tim Ellison]

Did you de-select Iambic (the keyer) and select Mono Cable?

Tim Ellison

On 2/19/2012 8:57 PM, n12...@yahoo.com wrote:

Hi,
I have a Flex3000, when I plug a straight key in the front panel,  with the 
break-in checked I get a steady tone. If I hit the key it goes to dah dah 
dah
If I pull the key plug part way out of the key jack, it works normal. what do I 
have set wrong??
thanks,
73,Johnnie W6HTY
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Brian Lloyd]

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:

> > One other thing that would be nice is to have an option to bypass the
> built-in front-end filters thus allowing selection of an external filter.
>
> It's not an option, but that's what my 1500 does right out of the box.
> The front end filters (appear to) cut out when I tune down from 481 kHz.
> All is well on 481.  It's a total mess on 480 kHz and below.
>

I understand. But I was thinking in terms of the 5000 and 3000 mostly, and
also with the option of doing that for other frequencies and not just LF.

-- 
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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Re: [Flexradio] The new 472-479 kHz band - REAL DX

[Ralph W5JGV]

> Surprised at your observation, I checked my 5000a and noticed that if
> RX1 preamp is off, I get same results on both RXes at 485 KHz, but if
> RX1 preamp is on, the baselines are different and I see an apparent
> difference of  30-something dB.
>
> Are you using the same settings on both receivers?


Hello Jerry,

Yes, I am.  See this screen shot:

http://w5jgv.com/special/RX1-RX2.jpg (177 kB)

It shows that both RX's are set for USB reception, with a 2.7 KHz bandwidth.
A 50 Ohm dummy load is connected to the ANT1. The signal on the screen is my
PSK31 200 watt transmitter while it is on the air.

The antenna connections are:

RX1 to ANT1 connector

RX2 to ANT1 TAP

You can see the signal level difference between the RX's. The gain of RX2 is
about the same as both of my Yaesu FT-747GX's. I therefore conclude that RX1
is deaf.

As for the preamps, in my F5K, the preamps on both RX's are grayed out and
not available at frequencies at or below 2.000 MHz.

73,

Ralph  W5JGV - WD2XSH/7


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