Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
A spectrum-landscape version of Second Life? Sign me up! Neal On 8/2/07, Frank Brickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Neal Campbell K3NC wrote: > > > I see conversation > > streams, representing a visual representation of the mode of the stream, > > some indication of Quality of Service (like the old rst in days past) > > and then a representation of the content inside the mode (so streams of > > text for digital modes, waveforms for voice?, use our imagination). > > Absolutely. The more general issue here, from a design standpoint, is > that it's hopeless to undertake designing a single application that will > accommodate all scenarios. The need is for a virtual radio environment > which supports creating operating scenarios dynamically. > > From a programming standpoint, the virtual radio is a lot more like a > high-performance game than a glass front panel, no matter how elegantly > decorated. > > 73 > Frank > AB2KT > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
Neal Campbell K3NC wrote: > I see conversation > streams, representing a visual representation of the mode of the stream, > some indication of Quality of Service (like the old rst in days past) > and then a representation of the content inside the mode (so streams of > text for digital modes, waveforms for voice?, use our imagination). Absolutely. The more general issue here, from a design standpoint, is that it's hopeless to undertake designing a single application that will accommodate all scenarios. The need is for a virtual radio environment which supports creating operating scenarios dynamically. From a programming standpoint, the virtual radio is a lot more like a high-performance game than a glass front panel, no matter how elegantly decorated. 73 Frank AB2KT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
Please accept these "ideas" as no comment on the current concept of our SDR front ends, but.. I think we are too focussed on panadapter/waterfall displays since that is again how we think from fft conceptualization. I see conversation streams, representing a visual representation of the mode of the stream, some indication of Quality of Service (like the old rst in days past) and then a representation of the content inside the mode (so streams of text for digital modes, waveforms for voice?, use our imagination). So, instead of seeing signal, lets see streams! Neal Campbell K3NC On Aug 2, 2007, at 8:35 PM, Frank Brickle wrote: > Tim Ellison wrote: > >> "Gonna have to upgrade my PC again." >> >> Anybody seen any surplus Cray's on Ebay? :-) > > Sure. Seen all the Sony PS3s there? ;-) > > I wasn't joking about the display, BTW. What we're talking about is > perfectly realistic. This is one case, though, where a picture is > worth > 1e6 words, and rather than try to pack it all into email, I'm > going to > continue writing it up for the DCC. > > The 3D part is in the internal representation of the object. No > special > glasses needed. > > 73 > Frank > AB2KT > > ___ > FlexRadio mailing list > FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz > Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ > FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ > FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
Tim Ellison wrote: > "Gonna have to upgrade my PC again." > > Anybody seen any surplus Cray's on Ebay? :-) Sure. Seen all the Sony PS3s there? ;-) I wasn't joking about the display, BTW. What we're talking about is perfectly realistic. This is one case, though, where a picture is worth 1e6 words, and rather than try to pack it all into email, I'm going to continue writing it up for the DCC. The 3D part is in the internal representation of the object. No special glasses needed. 73 Frank AB2KT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
> >> >>If you're in a situation where the DX is so weak it needs its own, >>tighter >>filter, IMHO, you're probably not going to beat a pileup anyway. The > DX >>is too weak to work on your path. It's a rare day where the DX is > going >>to come _close_ to outlistening the SDR on an HF path. I have to disagree on this issue There is no doubt, especially IOTA that 160/80 meter signals are VERY weak due to portable equipment issues. But they can still hear very well. Vlad from many of his recent African Tour was very weak here, but he always gave me 599. And I worked him, by listening to the VERY WIDE qsx spread he used and finding the stations he worked. In this case, the narrow filter on him, and a wide filter on the pileup (which many times was 20kc or more. - Newspaper Headline: Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over - Bill H. in Chicagoland webcams at http://76.16.160.118:8080/ weather at http://hhweather.webhop.org ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
> >I don't think it is as easy as it looks. It's a question of >presentation >and screen real estate. The code is no doubt the easy bit. > I don't understand the presentation issue. Today, there's a blue overlay that shows the area on the panadapter display that corresponds to the SubRx. All I'm talking about is being able to set the width of the SubRx display filter separately from that of the Main Rx display. Same panadpter graphical approach, with the same display limitations. But at least you get to set Main and Sub widths separately. >In practice, I haven't found this restriction to be a big issue and I >just >finished up a DXCC on 80 meters (CW). > >If you're in a situation where the DX is so weak it needs its own, >tighter >filter, IMHO, you're probably not going to beat a pileup anyway. The DX >is too weak to work on your path. It's a rare day where the DX is going >to come _close_ to outlistening the SDR on an HF path. > There's actually quite a bit of wisdom in what you're saying. NEED the second filter? No. But it's easy to argue that there's darn little that one really NEEDs. But would separate filter sizes for VFOA and VFOB be NICE? I think so. I work digital modes almost exclusively. Thus, I'm looking at separate waterfall displays from each VFO. In my world, I very often find that I would like to have a really tight filter on the DX station (like, 50Hz for a PSK31 signal or 250Hz for an RTTY signal), and another really wide filter (5KHz) to watch the pileup. The tight filter would allow me to isolate the DX and potentially increase the copy rate, as well as avoid the folks that tune up next to the DX or call right next to the DX because they apparently believe that "up 3-5" means up 3-5 HZ (or something -- nothing that we can do about the folks that call or tune-up right on the DX's frequency). So, yes, you are entirely correct: This isn't a major limitation or a life-and-death, oh gosh, "wouldn't the SDR-1000 be so much better if we had this feature in PowerSDR" for me. But I think it would be a "nice to have"... de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
>> >>It would be nice to have separate filter widths for each vfo. >>Or does someone have a better way of doing this? >> > > Having separate filters for each "VFO" in PowerSDR for the SDR-1000 is > an enhancement that I requested a while back. > > I looked at the code, and it wouldn't be hard to implement -- But I'm > sure it's in the queue with all the other "good ideas". > I don't think it is as easy as it looks. It's a question of presentation and screen real estate. The code is no doubt the easy bit. In practice, I haven't found this restriction to be a big issue and I just finished up a DXCC on 80 meters (CW). Just make sure you customize (especially on CW) your filter widths correctly. My settings were made into a knowledge base article a while back. I think they work great, but the point is, you can set your own. I find that I have to dynamically alter the value in any serious pileup anyway, and mostly for the "not DX" portion of it. Usually, filter values run between 125 and 300 Hz, changing dynamically. I don't find filter widths below 125 Hz useful in pileups. Try several sizes between 125 and 500 -- I think you'll find it usually does well enough. I don't usually find the setting for the width for the DX (when working split, which is what we're discussing) terribly useful. The key is listening to the pileup. If you're in a situation where the DX is so weak it needs its own, tighter filter, IMHO, you're probably not going to beat a pileup anyway. The DX is too weak to work on your path. It's a rare day where the DX is going to come _close_ to outlistening the SDR on an HF path. Larry Wo0Z ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
"Gonna have to upgrade my PC again." Anybody seen any surplus Cray's on Ebay? :-) -Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Naruta Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:36 PM To: Frank Brickle Cc: FlexRadio List; Robert McGwier Subject: Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k You joke Frank, but how cool would it be to don your stereo goggles and see each receive waterfall as a three dimensional surface? You could use your cyber-glove to reach into one of the receive planes and grasp an interesting signal, setting the filter widths with your hand motions. You could then touch the start of his signal to hear the whole transmission. I can hardly wait for version 2 of the software. Gonna have to upgrade my PC again.:) Mike - AA8K Frank Brickle wrote: > Robert McGwier wrote: > >> In other words, it is only software but the USEFUL >> user interface to controlling it separately from the main RX is a cloudy >> mystery to us right now. > > Actually, I think it's pretty clear how to do it at this point. The > interface will require a 3D compositing window manager, however. The > spectrum display and visual overlays need to be 3D objects that can be > shuffled in the z-plane. > > 73 > Frank > AB2KT > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
You joke Frank, but how cool would it be to don your stereo goggles and see each receive waterfall as a three dimensional surface? You could use your cyber-glove to reach into one of the receive planes and grasp an interesting signal, setting the filter widths with your hand motions. You could then touch the start of his signal to hear the whole transmission. I can hardly wait for version 2 of the software. Gonna have to upgrade my PC again.:) Mike - AA8K Frank Brickle wrote: > Robert McGwier wrote: > >> In other words, it is only software but the USEFUL >> user interface to controlling it separately from the main RX is a cloudy >> mystery to us right now. > > Actually, I think it's pretty clear how to do it at this point. The > interface will require a 3D compositing window manager, however. The > spectrum display and visual overlays need to be 3D objects that can be > shuffled in the z-plane. > > 73 > Frank > AB2KT > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
[Flexradio] I can't seem to do this
Frank, Sorry, I don't understand what you said either. Would you please explain it for me??? In a 2 (independant) receiver scenario will BOTH radios have Dual Watch or one or none?? Regards David - G4PNX -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070802/cc8fdac9/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
On 8/2/2007 10:54:42 AM, Frank Brickle ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Robert McGwier wrote: > > > In other words, it is only software but the USEFUL > > user interface to controlling it separately from the main RX is a cloudy > > > mystery to us right now. > > Actually, I think it's pretty clear how to do it at this point. The > interface will require a 3D compositing window manager, however. The > spectrum display and visual overlays need to be 3D objects that can be > shuffled in the z-plane. > > 73 > Frank > AB2KT Frank, I have no idea what you just said. I have to take it on faith. The hardest thing for me at this age is learning the hand/eye interface coordination to quickly adjust filters, frequency, mode in conjunction with either my DX oriented logging programs or my contest oriented logging programs so I can work at maximum speed. The 'FOCUS' problem that only one program, (PWSDR) or (logging/contest) can accept input or adjustments at a time. I'm slowly improving my 'technique' but there is a wall that I will reach and realize I'll never overcome. ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
Robert McGwier wrote: > In other words, it is only software but the USEFUL > user interface to controlling it separately from the main RX is a cloudy > mystery to us right now. Actually, I think it's pretty clear how to do it at this point. The interface will require a 3D compositing window manager, however. The spectrum display and visual overlays need to be 3D objects that can be shuffled in the z-plane. 73 Frank AB2KT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
On 8/2/07, Robert McGwier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FireBrick wrote: > > Will I be able to with the 5K??? > > > > Chasing FW0MO on 80 meters split this morning > > I enabled the MultiRX so that I could hear the station he just worked. > > > > I had the filter set to 100Hz on the FW0 > > Great, really cut down the qrn so I could copy the FW0 > > But that also means 100Hz on VFO B. > > > > I couldn't find a way to widen VFO B and still maintain 100Hz on VFO A. > > The panadaptor was showing numerous people calling him but they fell outside > > of the filter so I couldn't tell which blip was the one I wanted to xmit on. > > > > It would be nice to have separate filter widths for each vfo. > > Or does someone have a better way of doing this? > > > > > > > The watch RX can have a different filter in the software. In the SDR > core, Frank and I have allowed different filters since the filter is > applied completely independently of the first or main RX. What we have > not figured out is how to present all of this capability to the user > through this GUI. In other words, it is only software but the USEFUL > user interface to controlling it separately from the main RX is a cloudy > mystery to us right now. We can and will allow this later on when we > get our heads back on increasing capabilities. > > Bob Might be worth looking into Iron Python which can be embedded into PowerSDR. This would give a scripting language in Python which natively knows .NET. People then could write scripts to hook various radio chain pieces together. There would have to be some wrapping of DttSP functions in managed code so the DSP module could be used as radio building blocks (somewhat similar to GNURadio with python). I started on this idea back in 2005 with SharpDSP. Now that Mono has come a long way since 2005, I am looking at it again. Of course, to do anything really useful with it users will have to commit to learn a little Python, otherwise it won't help them much. 73 Phil N8VB ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
FireBrick wrote: > Will I be able to with the 5K??? > > Chasing FW0MO on 80 meters split this morning > I enabled the MultiRX so that I could hear the station he just worked. > > I had the filter set to 100Hz on the FW0 > Great, really cut down the qrn so I could copy the FW0 > But that also means 100Hz on VFO B. > > I couldn't find a way to widen VFO B and still maintain 100Hz on VFO A. > The panadaptor was showing numerous people calling him but they fell outside > of the filter so I couldn't tell which blip was the one I wanted to xmit on. > > It would be nice to have separate filter widths for each vfo. > Or does someone have a better way of doing this? > > The watch RX can have a different filter in the software. In the SDR core, Frank and I have allowed different filters since the filter is applied completely independently of the first or main RX. What we have not figured out is how to present all of this capability to the user through this GUI. In other words, it is only software but the USEFUL user interface to controlling it separately from the main RX is a cloudy mystery to us right now. We can and will allow this later on when we get our heads back on increasing capabilities. Bob -- AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair "If you're going to be crazy, you have to get paid for it or else you're going to be locked up." Hunter S. Thompson ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
> >It would be nice to have separate filter widths for each vfo. >Or does someone have a better way of doing this? > Having separate filters for each "VFO" in PowerSDR for the SDR-1000 is an enhancement that I requested a while back. I looked at the code, and it wouldn't be hard to implement -- But I'm sure it's in the queue with all the other "good ideas". de Peter K1PGV ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
Bill. What you are asking for is not hardware dependent; it is a function of PowerSDR. With the second RX installed (which is very different from MultiWatch), you should have independent control of the filter width. The interaction of the second RX with the transceiver and the UI to manipulate those controls is still in the preliminary design stages. -Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of FireBrick Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:00 AM To: FlexRadio List Subject: [Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k Will I be able to with the 5K??? Chasing FW0MO on 80 meters split this morning I enabled the MultiRX so that I could hear the station he just worked. I had the filter set to 100Hz on the FW0 Great, really cut down the qrn so I could copy the FW0 But that also means 100Hz on VFO B. I couldn't find a way to widen VFO B and still maintain 100Hz on VFO A. The panadaptor was showing numerous people calling him but they fell outside of the filter so I couldn't tell which blip was the one I wanted to xmit on. It would be nice to have separate filter widths for each vfo. Or does someone have a better way of doing this? - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them. - Bill H. in Chicagoland webcams at http://76.16.160.118:8080/ weather at http://hhweather.webhop.org ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
[Flexradio] I can't seem to do this with PWSDR1k
Will I be able to with the 5K??? Chasing FW0MO on 80 meters split this morning I enabled the MultiRX so that I could hear the station he just worked. I had the filter set to 100Hz on the FW0 Great, really cut down the qrn so I could copy the FW0 But that also means 100Hz on VFO B. I couldn't find a way to widen VFO B and still maintain 100Hz on VFO A. The panadaptor was showing numerous people calling him but they fell outside of the filter so I couldn't tell which blip was the one I wanted to xmit on. It would be nice to have separate filter widths for each vfo. Or does someone have a better way of doing this? - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them. - Bill H. in Chicagoland webcams at http://76.16.160.118:8080/ weather at http://hhweather.webhop.org ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
