Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
WHY WHY WHY does the ARRL continue to ask people who are software defined radio virgins to review SDR's? They don't ask newly licensed hams with no experience to review something like an IC-7800 do they? In fact they don't ask newbie's to review anything except SDR's It is ridiculous! The guy complains about being bewildered at the number of options, like the AGC options. What is so bewildering? You choose an option and see if it improves your received performance for a given set of band conditions. DUH! He complains about SR yet he says SR does quite effectively what it was designed to do. SR was designed to move a spur out of the filter's pass band you are listening to. What other radio gives you the option to eliminate a spur from the filter's pass band? The lack of insight is incredible. THEY ARE CLUELESS (that means operating without a clue) and I find it terribly annoying. You don't have to be a SDR apologist to review a SDR radio but at least you should ACTUALLY understand what is going on before you put pen to paper. 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
What is the problem, congressional bills follow that pretense all of the time. 73 Ross K9COX WHY WHY WHY does the ARRL continue to ask people who are software defined radio virgins to review SDR's? They don't ask newly licensed hams with no experience to review something like an IC-7800 do they? In fact they don't ask newbie's to review anything except SDR's It is ridiculous! The guy complains about being bewildered at the number of options, like the AGC options. What is so bewildering? You choose an option and see if it improves your received performance for a given set of band conditions. DUH! He complains about SR yet he says SR does quite effectively what it was designed to do. SR was designed to move a spur out of the filter's pass band you are listening to. What other radio gives you the option to eliminate a spur from the filter's pass band? The lack of insight is incredible. THEY ARE CLUELESS (that means operating without a clue) and I find it terribly annoying. You don't have to be a SDR apologist to review a SDR radio but at least you should ACTUALLY understand what is going on before you put pen to paper. 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:48 AM, Lee A Crocker lee_croc...@yahoo.com wrote: WHY WHY WHY does the ARRL continue to ask people who are software defined radio virgins to review SDR's? They don't ask newly licensed hams with no experience to review something like an IC-7800 do they? In fact they don't ask newbie's to review anything except SDR's It is ridiculous! The guy complains about being bewildered at the number of options, like the AGC options. What is so bewildering? You choose an option and see if it improves your received performance for a given set of band conditions. DUH! He complains about SR yet he says SR does quite effectively what it was designed to do. SR was designed to move a spur out of the filter's pass band you are listening to. What other radio gives you the option to eliminate a spur from the filter's pass band? The lack of insight is incredible. THEY ARE CLUELESS (that means operating without a clue) and I find it terribly annoying. You don't have to be a SDR apologist to review a SDR radio but at least you should ACTUALLY understand what is going on before you put pen to paper. If you think about it it, you *want* someone who has never used it before to test it. The idea is to find out what the typical amateur's experience will be like and your typical amateur will never have seen a Flex 3000 or any other SDR before. He/she is probably stepping up from something like an Icom IC-718 or it will be his/her first radio. For the review to be meaningful to that person, it has to be similar to what their experience will be like. The ham who is looking at getting a Flex 5000 is probably considering all the top-of-the-line radios and may have owned several HF rigs before. We can expect that ham to know something about AGC, IMD, duty cycle, multiple antennas, dedicated receiving antennas, etc. I would expect that review to be given to someone with that kind of background. But not the Flex 3000. The only thing I would change is that, given the learning curve, the reviewer should live with the radio for at least three months of regular use in order to be able to talk about how it worked after they dealt with the help from the reflector and Flex, and really learned how to use the radio. That is where the new owner is going to be and they need to know that they are going to end up being able to use the radio just fine and that it is going to outperform anything else they could spend their $1600 on. So, yes, THEY ARE CLUELES, and that is how it -*SHOULD*- be. -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
Forward that to ARRL Lee... Dennis Petrich Amateur Radio Station K0EOO Lakeville Minnesota USA k0...@arrl.net 952-898-1082 - Original Message - From: Lee A Crocker lee_croc...@yahoo.com To: Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 7:48:22 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download WHY WHY WHY does the ARRL continue to ask people who are software defined radio virgins to review SDR's? They don't ask newly licensed hams with no experience to review something like an IC-7800 do they? In fact they don't ask newbie's to review anything except SDR's It is ridiculous! The guy complains about being bewildered at the number of options, like the AGC options. What is so bewildering? You choose an option and see if it improves your received performance for a given set of band conditions. DUH! He complains about SR yet he says SR does quite effectively what it was designed to do. SR was designed to move a spur out of the filter's pass band you are listening to. What other radio gives you the option to eliminate a spur from the filter's pass band? The lack of insight is incredible. THEY ARE CLUELESS (that means operating without a clue) and I find it terribly annoying. You don't have to be a SDR apologist to review a SDR radio but at least you should ACTUALLY understand what is going on before you put pen to paper. 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to radio...@frontiernet.net ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
Hey, a fascinating discussion! As the owner of one of the first Flex5000A's (one with no common mode choke on the mike jack) I will freely admit to being one of those who were clueless as far as what I was getting myself into. And I will admit that it took a lot longer than a few months before I felt confident and secure in operating this marvelous thing that Gerald has created. In the past nearly two years I have succeeded in converting absolutely zero of my close friend hams to SDR. They all know that I would never do without it or my Flex3000 (I expect the door bell to ring at any moment with my UPS driver and upgraded radio) however they know all about my learning experience with SDR and, unlike me, don't find such effort to be rewarding even though they know I can do things they can't with their knob and button radios. When folks ask me if I think they should go the SDR route I decline to answer but do point out that when I sit in my shack with those video displays in front of me I can't help but marvel that I actually have such resources available! I can't imagine that anyone would doubt that these radios are a tremendously great addition to our hobby. 73 Lee K9WRU Quoting Brian Lloyd brian-wb6...@lloyd.com: On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:48 AM, Lee A Crocker lee_croc...@yahoo.com wrote: WHY WHY WHY does the ARRL continue to ask people who are software defined radio virgins to review SDR's? They don't ask newly licensed hams with no experience to review something like an IC-7800 do they? In fact they don't ask newbie's to review anything except SDR's It is ridiculous! THEY ARE CLUELESS (that means operating without a clue) and I find it terribly annoying. You don't have to be a SDR apologist to review a SDR radio but at least you should ACTUALLY understand what is going on before you put pen to paper. If you think about it it, you *want* someone who has never used it before to test it. The idea is to find out what the typical amateur's experience will be like and your typical amateur will never have seen a Flex 3000 or any other SDR before. He/she is probably stepping up from something like an Icom IC-718 or it will be his/her first radio. For the review to be meaningful to that person, it has to be similar to what their experience will be like. The ham who is looking at getting a Flex 5000 is probably considering all the top-of-the-line radios and may have owned several HF rigs before. We can expect that ham to know something about AGC, IMD, duty cycle, multiple antennas, dedicated receiving antennas, etc. I would expect that review to be given to someone with that kind of background. But not the Flex 3000. The only thing I would change is that, given the learning curve, the reviewer should live with the radio for at least three months of regular use in order to be able to talk about how it worked after they dealt with the help from the reflector and Flex, and really learned how to use the radio. That is where the new owner is going to be and they need to know that they are going to end up being able to use the radio just fine and that it is going to outperform anything else they could spend their $1600 on. So, yes, THEY ARE CLUELES, and that is how it -*SHOULD*- be. -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to herbe...@centurytel.net ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
The review problem is greater than just a novice ham reviewing newer technology. The person who reviewed the IC-7600 did not understand what roofing filters are supposed to do. We have also gotten to read completely unsupportable statements over the years, such as comparing radio B to radio A that is turned off (IC-7800 review). It wasn't long ago that we read that the FT-2000D had so much more punch than an FT-2000 due to the extra 100 watts output, but the two radios were used on the air six months apart. One would think the editor would watch for this kind of drivel, but it never seems to end. 73, Rob, NC0B WHY WHY WHY does the ARRL continue to ask people who are software defined radio virgins to review SDR's? They don't ask newly licensed hams with no experience to review something like an IC-7800 do they? In fact they don't ask newbie's to review anything except SDR's It is ridiculous! The guy complains about being bewildered at the number of options, like the AGC options. What is so bewildering? You choose an option and see if it improves your received performance for a given set of band conditions. DUH! He complains about SR yet he says SR does quite effectively what it was designed to do. SR was designed to move a spur out of the filter's pass band you are listening to. What other radio gives you the option to eliminate a spur from the filter's pass band? The lack of insight is incredible. THEY ARE CLUELESS (that means operating without a clue) and I find it terribly annoying. You don't have to be a SDR apologist to review a SDR radio but at least you should ACTUALLY understand what is going on before you put pen to paper. 73 W9OY ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to radio...@frontiernet.net ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to r...@nc0b.com -- If this email is spam, report it here: http://www.onlymyemail.com/view/?action=reportSpamId=ODExMjI6OTc1MDc4NjI4OnJvYkBuYzBiLmNvbQ%3D%3D ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
Brian With all due respect this is precisely what you DONT want. The reviewer can reveal his expertise so an average ham can judge his skill set vs the expert reviewer. That should in no way therefore detract from the veracity of the review. Otherwise the reviewer should disclose he is a complete novice and may completely miss the point of a given feature. I think my two examples are examples where the reviewer completely misses the point and is not experienced enough to even realize he missed the point. I don't want to be too hard on this reviewer as I'm sure he took up the challenge and did the best he could If you have someone clueless reviewing a product you have absolutely NO clear understanding if the product has a fault or the reviewer has a fault or if its just a limitation of the technology in general. For example I would never want to read a review of a 20M beam antenna at 100ft by a guy who has only run a dipole at 20ft. They are both antennas to be sure but that is about all they share in common. From that review I would have NO information regarding the beam. Rather I would like a review from someone who has lots of experience with beams. Even if I was a average ham a dipole on a postage stamp size lot, that review would mean something to me, because it would give me a real way to try and understand the power of a beam. I don't mind a critical review as long as I can trust the skill set of the reviewer. What use would a review of a Ferrari be if it was reviewed by a little old lady who only uses the car to go to the corner using all right turns to get her hair done? Even though she has perhaps 60 years behind the wheel she doesn't have the skill set to really test the machine. I would much rather hear the opinion of a formula one racer. 73 W9OY From: Brian Lloyd brian-wb6...@lloyd.com To: Lee A Crocker lee_croc...@yahoo.com Cc: Flexradio FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 11:44:02 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:48 AM, Lee A Crocker lee_croc...@yahoo.com wrote: WHY WHY WHY does the ARRL continue to ask people who are software defined radio virgins to review SDR's? They don't ask newly licensed hams with no experience to review something like an IC-7800 do they? In fact they don't ask newbie's to review anything except SDR's It is ridiculous! The guy complains about being bewildered at the number of options, like the AGC options. What is so bewildering? You choose an option and see if it improves your received performance for a given set of band conditions. DUH! He complains about SR yet he says SR does quite effectively what it was designed to do. SR was designed to move a spur out of the filter's pass band you are listening to. What other radio gives you the option to eliminate a spur from the filter's pass band? The lack of insight is incredible. THEY ARE CLUELESS (that means operating without a clue) and I find it terribly annoying. You don't have to be a SDR apologist to review a SDR radio but at least you should ACTUALLY understand what is going on before you put pen to paper. If you think about it it, you *want* someone who has never used it before to test it. The idea is to find out what the typical amateur's experience will be like and your typical amateur will never have seen a Flex 3000 or any other SDR before. He/she is probably stepping up from something like an Icom IC-718 or it will be his/her first radio. For the review to be meaningful to that person, it has to be similar to what their experience will be like. The ham who is looking at getting a Flex 5000 is probably considering all the top-of-the-line radios and may have owned several HF rigs before. We can expect that ham to know something about AGC, IMD, duty cycle, multiple antennas, dedicated receiving antennas, etc. I would expect that review to be given to someone with that kind of background. But not the Flex 3000. The only thing I would change is that, given the learning curve, the reviewer should live with the radio for at least three months of regular use in order to be able to talk about how it worked after they dealt with the help from the reflector and Flex, and really learned how to use the radio. That is where the new owner is going to be and they need to know that they are going to end up being able to use the radio just fine and that it is going to outperform anything else they could spend their $1600 on. So, yes, THEY ARE CLUELES, and that is how it -*SHOULD*- be. -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN/J79BPL ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
At 08:44 AM 10/5/2009, Brian Lloyd wrote: your typical amateur will never have seen a Flex 3000 or any other SDR before. He/she is probably stepping up from something like an Icom IC-718 or it will be his/her first radio. I beg your pardon My first radio was an IC-718 and in four years I worked 225 countries. My second radio was an F3K, and I did have some troubles with it, but most were of my own making. I got lots of help from the list. I learned quite a few things, among them: 1. The weakest link in the F3K is the mic input. If you run SSB (or AM), and you don't use a mic with a shielded cable (or maybe even if you do), and you are close to your antenna, watch out for RFI. I solved mine with half a dozen well-placed ferrites. But an unbalanced mic input on the front panel would be a great upgrade. 2. If you use an amp, you can have LOTS of RFI. See point 1. 3. If you have a solid-state amp it is very sensitive to reflected power, so make sure your antenna has a very low SWR. 4. RFI can strike anywhere, all interconnections should have a ferrite at each end. 5. Good RFI grounding can help a lot. I knew a week in I would love the F3K once I got it working well. And now it is working pretty well, the only remaining problem is an SWR that is a little high on 40m. I am going to work with the antenna manufacturer on that. I now have five new countries on my F3K. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html - ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Flexradio] QST review of the FLEX-3000 available for download
The ARRL has given FlexRadio Systems re-print permission to distribute the FLEX-3000 technical review that is in the QST October 2009 edition. You can download it from the FlexRadio Systems Downloads web page http://support.flex-radio.com/Downloads.aspx?id=295 NOTE: There is an update of this review in the QST November 2009 edition that is currently only available to ARRL members (until the November 09 edition is mailed). IP2, IMD DR2 and IMD DR3 values have been restated for the FLEX-3000 after the recent preamp ECO. We will have this data available for download sometime after the first of November. ARRL members can review it from here: http://www.arrl.org/members-only/prodrev/pdf/pr0911.pdf -Tim -- W4TME FlexRadio Systems - Info Management Admin. Tune in Excitement ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Flexradio] QST review
My guess is the problem that the reviewer was having with not seeing signals well enough was because the display adjustments were not set correctly. I use PanaFall 99% of the time and always have to adjust the display settings depending on the band, time of day, etc. I have submitted an enhancement request for a display auto-adjust feature. Best regards, Michael Jones SCSI Toolbox LLC http://www.scsitoolbox.com www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Flexradio] QST review
Hi Mike, That's interesting. What adjustments do you find it necessary to make, and under what conditions? - Original Message - From: Michael Jones mi...@scsitoolbox.com To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:58 AM Subject: [Flexradio] QST review My guess is the problem that the reviewer was having with not seeing signals well enough was because the display adjustments were not set correctly. I use PanaFall 99% of the time and always have to adjust the display settings depending on the band, time of day, etc. I have submitted an enhancement request for a display auto-adjust feature. Best regards, Michael Jones SCSI Toolbox LLC http://www.scsitoolbox.com www.scsitoolbox.com 303-972-2072 ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to paul.hamra...@verizon.net ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Flexradio] QST Review of the Flex-3000 is on the ARRL site
If you are an ARRL member you can look at the October 2009 QST review of the Flex-3000. http://www.arrl.org/members-only/prodrev/ Zack N8FNR ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Flexradio] QST REVIEW
Review of the 5000A is online at arrl. Sri if this is old news for you guys. KN1W ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
