subject:"\[Flexradio\] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A\?"

Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

2009-03-25 Thread Gerald Youngblood

Hi Kerb,

I checked this with our team today in the regular monthly customer service
review.  I confirmed this is the only reported issue of its type reported
since the FLEX-5000 was introduced.  When we have singular reports of a
problem, our customer service representatives work with the individual
customers to resolve any problems unique to that customer. 

If you need any specific assistance we will be glad to work directly with
you.

Regards,
Gerald

Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President
FlexRadio Systems
13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713
www.flex-radio.com

"Tune in excitement!" (TM) 


-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of knesbitt
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:53 PM
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

Gerald,
can you comment on the findings and ultimate resolution to the problems
reported by Andy HB9CVQ re his 5000A and C model?
Thanks,

Kirb - VE6IV
--
-Quote-


  [Flexradio] F5KC RFIO TX EMI-coupling into HTRX Board

*Gerald Youngblood* gerald at flex-radio.com 
<mailto:flexradio%40flex-radio.biz?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BFlexradio%5D%20F5KC%20
RFIO%20TX%20EMI-coupling%20into%20HTRX%20Board&In-Reply-To=%3CE630C57DF99B4D
CABD49DFF766547DE6%40GeraldGateway%3E>
/Tue Jan 13 13:24:53 EST 2009/

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"Hi Andy,

This is the first report of this problem that we are aware of on either the
F5KC or F5KA.  I will be glad to work with you directly to find a solution.


Regards,
Gerald

Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President
FlexRadio Systems
13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713

-Original Message-
From: flexradio-bounces at flex-radio.biz
<http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz>
[mailto:flexradio-bounces at flex-radio.biz
<http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz>] On
Behalf Of Andy Diethard Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:59 AM
To: FlexRadio at flex-radio.biz
<http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz>
Subject: [Flexradio] F5KC RFIO TX EMI-coupling into HTRX Board

Hi ALL

F5KC RFIO TX EMI-coupling into HTRX Board, causing CW, QSK hick-ups + RX
noise

 just found an intra system EMI problem (not software) inside my F5KC and a
first (not yet sufficient) fix (ferrite):

http://www.qrz.com/detail/hb9cvq (scroll all the way down under F5KC test
report )

any comments or suggestions?

73 Andy HB9CVQ


*Snipped* from Andy's report http://www.qrz.com/detail/hb9cvq


"First EMI Field Probe
sniffing investigations (Jan./12/09), internally, inside the
F5KC, reveal uncontrolled RF TX-coupling from the HRFIO board via a
flat 10 line ribbon cable to HTRX (RFIO SV2) board. Inserting a high
permeable (4700) ferrite core (1.5 turns = 13uH- Jan./14/09) here helps
now better keeping the RF in the upper chassis compartment. QSK
operation is now feasable (60ms, 40Wpm) with the Acom 2000A for the
first time. 80m, 1kW, just using one cable: Flex TX1 PTT out, no delay
to Acom key-in. 160m is worse than 80m . On 40 to 15m all is working
fine too. Above, up to 10m, there is probably some capacitive crosstalk
and more cores over some distance are needed.

The given ribbon cable, however, is too short for a higher number of 
turns around the core. CW keying has now rarely any hick-ups and the RX 
muting noise issues have also mostly improved. A longer ribbon cable and 
consequently more windings on the ferrite/or better more ferrite beads 
along the cable, is expected to trigger major problem fixes here. This 
might turn out as relatively easy and cost-effective field fix .Smile

==

*(updated 3/8/2009)* The proposed fix with five ferrites on a longer 
ribbon cable works very well on all bands. Almost ( 60ms) QSK, using 
RX1, works ok, practically no hick-ups, but relay chatter accoustic noise.

On using RX 2, there is still RF coupling (Rx2 only audio muting) , 
mostly from the 3 thin coax cables coming from the RFIO board. Fer

Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

2009-03-25 Thread Gerald Youngblood

Alan,

The shielding was added to reduce radiation of the 500 MHz clock that was
only a couple dB over the CE specification.  It has virtually no effect on
the HF performance of the radio on receive or transmit.  Without the
shielding, the radiated emissions are at least 6 dB better than FCC Class B
requirements.

We will be happy to sell the shielding kit if you would like one.  If it
were my radio, I would not do it.  

Regards,
Gerald

Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President
FlexRadio Systems
13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713
www.flex-radio.com

"Tune in excitement!" (TM) 

-Original Message-
From: Alan NV8A [mailto:n...@charter.net] 
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:05 PM
To: FlexRadio Reflector
Cc: ger...@flex-radio.com
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

Thanks for the reply, Gerald.

But why would we not *all* want to improve the shielding by those extra 
few dB, even if the FCC doesn't tell us we have to? -- and assuming that 
the installation is not too difficult and that the cost is reasonable. 
Might help to make up for those transparent-plastic-cased PCs I see at 
my local independent computer store; how much shielding do you think 
they have? Enough to meet FCC Class anything? I doubt it.

73

Alan NV8A

On 03/23/09 11:09 am Gerald Youngblood wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> The shielding does not improve performance of RX2 itself.  It does allow
it
> to pass the CE requirements for a transceiver.  RX2 meets FCC radiated
> emissions requirements without the shields.  I turns out that CE
> requirements for a transceiver are 8 dB more stringent than FCC Class B.
> Note that CE radiated emissions requirements for a computer are the same
as
> FCC class B.
>
> Regards,
> Gerald
>
> Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
> President
> FlexRadio Systems
> 13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250
> Austin, TX 78729
> Phone: 512-535-4713
> www.flex-radio.com

> Out of curiosity I was reading the installation instructions for RX2,
> which I am thinking that I might get sometime. If I understood
> correctly, the installation kit includes (at least for European
> customers, if not for all) additional metal "fingers" to improve the
> shielding -- presumably to meet CE standards.
>
> Would not anything that improves the shielding be advantageous for all?
> Are such "fingers" available for non-EU Flex-5000A rigs without RX2? Or
> is there some approved widely available product we can use to improve
> the shielding?

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Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

2009-03-23 Thread Alan NV8A


Thanks for the reply, Gerald.

But why would we not *all* want to improve the shielding by those extra 
few dB, even if the FCC doesn't tell us we have to? -- and assuming that 
the installation is not too difficult and that the cost is reasonable. 
Might help to make up for those transparent-plastic-cased PCs I see at 
my local independent computer store; how much shielding do you think 
they have? Enough to meet FCC Class anything? I doubt it.


73

Alan NV8A


On 03/23/09 11:09 am Gerald Youngblood wrote:


Hi Alan,

The shielding does not improve performance of RX2 itself.  It does allow it
to pass the CE requirements for a transceiver.  RX2 meets FCC radiated
emissions requirements without the shields.  I turns out that CE
requirements for a transceiver are 8 dB more stringent than FCC Class B.
Note that CE radiated emissions requirements for a computer are the same as
FCC class B.

Regards,
Gerald

Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President
FlexRadio Systems
13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713
www.flex-radio.com



Out of curiosity I was reading the installation instructions for RX2,
which I am thinking that I might get sometime. If I understood
correctly, the installation kit includes (at least for European
customers, if not for all) additional metal "fingers" to improve the
shielding -- presumably to meet CE standards.

Would not anything that improves the shielding be advantageous for all?
Are such "fingers" available for non-EU Flex-5000A rigs without RX2? Or
is there some approved widely available product we can use to improve
the shielding?



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Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/

Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

2009-03-23 Thread knesbitt


Gerald,
can you comment on the findings and ultimate resolution to the problems 
reported by Andy HB9CVQ re his 5000A and C model?
Thanks,

Kirb - VE6IV
--
-Quote-


 [Flexradio] F5KC RFIO TX EMI-coupling into HTRX Board

*Gerald Youngblood* gerald at flex-radio.com 


/Tue Jan 13 13:24:53 EST 2009/

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 [ thread ]
 

 [ subject ]
 

 [ author ]
 



"Hi Andy,

This is the first report of this problem that we are aware of on either the
F5KC or F5KA.  I will be glad to work with you directly to find a solution.


Regards,
Gerald

Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President
FlexRadio Systems
13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713

-Original Message-
From: flexradio-bounces at flex-radio.biz 

[mailto:flexradio-bounces at flex-radio.biz 
] On 
Behalf Of Andy Diethard Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:59 AM
To: FlexRadio at flex-radio.biz 

Subject: [Flexradio] F5KC RFIO TX EMI-coupling into HTRX Board

Hi ALL

F5KC RFIO TX EMI-coupling into HTRX Board, causing CW, QSK hick-ups + RX
noise

just found an intra system EMI problem (not software) inside my F5KC and a
first (not yet sufficient) fix (ferrite):

http://www.qrz.com/detail/hb9cvq (scroll all the way down under F5KC test
report )

any comments or suggestions?

73 Andy HB9CVQ


*Snipped* from Andy's report http://www.qrz.com/detail/hb9cvq


"First EMI Field Probe
sniffing investigations (Jan./12/09), internally, inside the
F5KC, reveal uncontrolled RF TX-coupling from the HRFIO board via a
flat 10 line ribbon cable to HTRX (RFIO SV2) board. Inserting a high
permeable (4700) ferrite core (1.5 turns = 13uH- Jan./14/09) here helps
now better keeping the RF in the upper chassis compartment. QSK
operation is now feasable (60ms, 40Wpm) with the Acom 2000A for the
first time. 80m, 1kW, just using one cable: Flex TX1 PTT out, no delay
to Acom key-in. 160m is worse than 80m . On 40 to 15m all is working
fine too. Above, up to 10m, there is probably some capacitive crosstalk
and more cores over some distance are needed.

The given ribbon cable, however, is too short for a higher number of 
turns around the core. CW keying has now rarely any hick-ups and the RX 
muting noise issues have also mostly improved. A longer ribbon cable and 
consequently more windings on the ferrite/or better more ferrite beads 
along the cable, is expected to trigger major problem fixes here. This 
might turn out as relatively easy and cost-effective field fix .Smile


==

*(updated 3/8/2009)* The proposed fix with five ferrites on a longer 
ribbon cable works very well on all bands. Almost ( 60ms) QSK, using 
RX1, works ok, practically no hick-ups, but relay chatter accoustic noise.


On using RX 2, there is still RF coupling (Rx2 only audio muting) , 
mostly from the 3 thin coax cables coming from the RFIO board. Ferrites 
will be installed here too soon.


Additional improvement was made by grounding the external cable shields 
( e.g. key, PTT) to the thin galvanized groundplane under the Flex and 
Power Supply. No ESD effects on touching the key anymore. After the 
grounding the cable shield goes through a CM cable choke and internally 
100uH and 4.7nF per pin.


Generally speaking , the EMI Chassis protection principle of Zoning 
(seperation barrier in/outside) is broken by having RCA connectors, 
Key or Firewire not 360 deg. terminated to the conductive rear panel at 
cable entry. The connectors are grounded on the inside of the Flex for 
easy manufacturing, unsuitable for EMC.


Work on the thermal contest issues: presently solved by taking off the 
side covers of the chassis and using an external fan , blowing into the 
CPU compartment. Accoustic noise will have to be reduced here too in the 
future.


==

There are irregular TX-RX transitio

Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

2009-03-23 Thread Gerald Youngblood

Hi Alan,

The shielding does not improve performance of RX2 itself.  It does allow it
to pass the CE requirements for a transceiver.  RX2 meets FCC radiated
emissions requirements without the shields.  I turns out that CE
requirements for a transceiver are 8 dB more stringent than FCC Class B.
Note that CE radiated emissions requirements for a computer are the same as
FCC class B.

Regards,
Gerald

Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
President
FlexRadio Systems
13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250
Austin, TX 78729
Phone: 512-535-4713
www.flex-radio.com

"Tune in excitement!" (TM) 

-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Alan NV8A
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:40 PM
To: FlexRadio Reflector
Subject: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

Out of curiosity I was reading the installation instructions for RX2, 
which I am thinking that I might get sometime. If I understood 
correctly, the installation kit includes (at least for European 
customers, if not for all) additional metal "fingers" to improve the 
shielding -- presumably to meet CE standards.

Would not anything that improves the shielding be advantageous for all? 
Are such "fingers" available for non-EU Flex-5000A rigs without RX2? Or 
is there some approved widely available product we can use to improve 
the shielding?

73

Alan NV8A

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http://www.flex-radio.com/


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[Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

2009-03-22 Thread Alan NV8A

Out of curiosity I was reading the installation instructions for RX2, 
which I am thinking that I might get sometime. If I understood 
correctly, the installation kit includes (at least for European 
customers, if not for all) additional metal "fingers" to improve the 
shielding -- presumably to meet CE standards.


Would not anything that improves the shielding be advantageous for all? 
Are such "fingers" available for non-EU Flex-5000A rigs without RX2? Or 
is there some approved widely available product we can use to improve 
the shielding?


73

Alan NV8A

___
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FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flex-radio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/

Re: [Flexradio] Shielding improvements for Flex 5000A?

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