Re: [Flightgear-devel] EAA Wright Flyer

2002-04-09 Thread Michael Selig

At 4/9/02, you wrote:
>On Wednesday 10 April 2002 10:02 pm, you wrote:
> > "Microsoft To Join The Centennial Of Flight Celebration As Part Of
> >  EAA's Countdown To Kitty Hawk Presented By Ford Motor Company"
> > http://www.countdowntokittyhawk.com/news/microsoft.html
> >
> > Go read it for the full details, but it basically says that Micros~1
> > will be creating a "highly detailed" flight model for the 1903 Wright
> > Flyer to be used in a big simulator.  Here's the interesting part:
> >
> > 
> > To create the most accurate simulation of the 1903 Wright Flyer, the
> > Microsoft "Flight Simulator" team plans to work with EAA to research the
> > details of the aircraft, the site where the Flyer flew and historical
> > accounts of Dec. 17, 1903. The team also will observe wind tunnel tests
> > of EAA's 1903 Wright Flyer reproduction - the only Flyer to fly at the
> > First Flight Centennial Celebration. Those experiences and the data will
> > help ensure that the 3-D visuals and the flight model of the aircraft in
> > Microsoft "Flight Simulator" are as detailed and accurate as possible.
> > 
> >
> > I wonder if the EAA would be willing to share their research data with
> > the rest of us?  Any EAA members here?
>
>I dunno, but M Selig from UIUC has been working on a flyer model for fgfs
>for a while


John is right, I did put together a model of the 1903 Wright Flyer.  I used 
data from the NASA Ames test (AIAA Paper 2000-0512) and the reference is here:

Jex, H, Grimm, R., Latz, J.P., and Hange, C., Full-Scale 1903 Wright Flyer 
Wind Tunnel Test Results from the NASA Ames Research Center AIAA 38th 
Aerospace Sciences Meeting, AIAA Paper No. 2000-0512, 2000. 
http://www.wrightflyer.org/Papers/papers.html

Another key person is Prof Culick at Caltech.  Together with several 
others, he's analyzed the Flyer inside and out, and he's published a number 
of papers on it.  His interests do not stop there: he's planning on flying 
a Wright Flyer look-alike in 2003 ... and because the original design was 
unstable, he asked us here to design a "new" airfoil for his Wright Flyer 
(the Los Angeles AIAA Section/Caltech group).  This new airfoil + a change 
in cg + some other subtle changes will make the aircraft (the "look-alike") 
more stable, which is the only sane thing to do!

The sim model requires CONSTANT attention to maintain pitch attitude and 
avoid stall.  Looking away for 1/3 sec is enough to find yourself looking 
at the ground or blue sky without much of a chance to recover. Stall is 
very interesting.  The aircraft will pitch up, and the canard will stall 
but it still generates enough lift to keep pitching up the "nose".  Then 
the main wing will stall and create an even higher angle of attack on the 
canard as the cg heaves down due to lost of lift.  At this point the canard 
goes into a deep stall, the diving moment of the wing takes over and 
pitches the aircraft down rapidly.  The canard control power is VERY 
marginal, and the pullout is rather dramatic (slow).  50-75 ft can be lost 
very easily ... and that was 50 ft of clawing to altitude.

One illusion in the sim is that when the main wing stalls, the canard seems 
to pitch up "too fast".  What's really happening is that the cg of the 
aircraft is dropping down.  The view from the controls is one of seeing the 
canard rise up.  But in side-view the drop of the main wing can be seen 
fairly well.

The model is here:
http://amber.aae.uiuc.edu/~m-selig/apasim/Aircraft-uiuc.html

The data from the full-scale tests, which I used, is a gold mine to someone 
like me wanting to model the Flyer in a sim.  One important thing is 
lacking, however.  Stall data was not taken because of, presumably, 
instrumentation concerns.  Nevertheless, my model is a nonlinear aero model 
(i.e. has stall) with data going from -35 to +35 deg alfa.  It required 
some effort to estimate the stall data and independent effects of the 
canard and wing.

I have recently added in apparent mass effects (version 2), but that model 
and associated code is not yet in the CVS.

If anyone wants to try it (version 1), a good 3D model is the
"03Flyer.zip" (www.flightsim.com):
FS2002 - 1903 Wright Flyer Model by Paul Beardsley

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**
  Prof. Michael S. Selig
  Dept. of Aero/Astro Engineering
  University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
  306 Talbot Laboratory
  104 South Wright Street
  Urbana, IL 61801-2935
  (217) 244-5757 (o), (509) 691-1373 (fax)
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/m-selig
  http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/m-selig/faq.html (FAQ)
**


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] EAA Wright Flyer

2002-04-09 Thread Paul Deppe

Last year I did an in-flight simulation of the Wright Flyer in our
Variable-Stability Lear 24 for the USAF Test Pilot School.  It was part of
the AIAA Wright Flyer Project - I wonder how this is this related to the EAA
project?  See:

http://www.wrightflyer.org/Future/have_wright.html

The linear model was provided by Dr. Fred Culick of CalTech.  They were
considering adding pitch and roll SAS (which we also tried in flight) to
augment the statically unstable pitch and roll axes, although I'm not sure
what has been done since last year.

If Dr. Culick's model was accurate, Wilbur and Orville really had their
hands full.

Regards,

Paul

Paul R. Deppe
Veridian Engineering (formerly Calspan)
Flight & Aerospace Research Group
150 North Airport Drive
Buffalo, NY  14225
(716) 631-6898
(716) 631-6990 FAX
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


<>

Re: [Flightgear-devel] EAA Wright Flyer

2002-04-09 Thread John Check

On Wednesday 10 April 2002 10:02 pm, you wrote:
> "Microsoft To Join The Centennial Of Flight Celebration As Part Of
>  EAA's Countdown To Kitty Hawk Presented By Ford Motor Company"
> http://www.countdowntokittyhawk.com/news/microsoft.html
>
> Go read it for the full details, but it basically says that Micros~1
> will be creating a "highly detailed" flight model for the 1903 Wright
> Flyer to be used in a big simulator.  Here's the interesting part:
>
> 
> To create the most accurate simulation of the 1903 Wright Flyer, the
> Microsoft "Flight Simulator" team plans to work with EAA to research the
> details of the aircraft, the site where the Flyer flew and historical
> accounts of Dec. 17, 1903. The team also will observe wind tunnel tests
> of EAA's 1903 Wright Flyer reproduction - the only Flyer to fly at the
> First Flight Centennial Celebration. Those experiences and the data will
> help ensure that the 3-D visuals and the flight model of the aircraft in
> Microsoft "Flight Simulator" are as detailed and accurate as possible.
> 
>
> I wonder if the EAA would be willing to share their research data with
> the rest of us?  Any EAA members here?

I dunno, but M Selig from UIUC has been working on a flyer model for fgfs
for a while

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] EAA Wright Flyer

2002-04-09 Thread Jon Berndt

> I wonder if the EAA would be willing to share their research data with
> the rest of us?  Any EAA members here?

IIRC it's not the EAA that's sponsoring the research. I think the model
was tested extensively in the wind tunel at Langley.

http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/aero/wright/tunnels/

I am thinking that the data may be available via FOIA or online.

Jon



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