Re: [Flightgear-devel] External sound dependency in A6M2

2008-12-14 Thread Tatsuhiro Nishioka
Great catch!

I'll fix this soon.

Best,

Tat

On Dec 15, 2008, at 8:26 AM, Frederic Bouvier   
wrote:

> Hi Tat,
>
> do you noticed the A6M2 model use two sound files that are not in  
> the base package :
> Aircraft/p51d/Sounds/p51d_rpm1.wav and Aircraft/p51d/Sounds/ 
> p51d_startup.wav referenced in a6m2-sound.xml ?
>
> -Fred
>
> -- 
> Frédéric Bouvier
> http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/  Photo gallery - album photo
> http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/   FlightGear Scenery Designer
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] c172 flight characteristics

2008-12-14 Thread Ron Jensen
On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 12:56 -0700, John Denker wrote:
> On 12/13/2008 06:16 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> 
> > The manual should allow some fairly thorough testing. 
> 
> OK, good.  I reckon thorough testing would be helpful.
> 
> As several others have mentioned, before delving too
> deeply into the Cessna-specific details, it might be
> worthwhile to vet the engine and prop models.
> 
> Here are some specific hints about where to look:
> 
> 1) Under standard sea-level conditions, I observe the
>  c172p model (from rc2) developing 120% of its rated
>  power at _zero_ kias.  That is peculiar, to say the
>  least.  Usually the static power is significantly
>  less than the rated power ... not more.

The propeller model in use for the c172p (prop_75in2f) does not absorb
enough power at 0 advance ratio to limit the static power of the engine.
Its maximum coefficient of thrust (c_thrust) is 0.062 at an advance
ratio of 0.1.  At 2700 rpm this corresponds to 17 knots.  The McCauley
7557 prop I put together for the Ercoupe has a c_thrust of 0.079 at zero
advance.  This limits the engine model (eng_io320) to about 2200 rpm at
zero advance ratio.  

http://cvs.flightgear.org/viewvc/data/Aircraft/ercoupe/Engines/prop_mccauley_7557.xml?view=log


Advance Ratio: J = V/nD
where V is calibrated airspeed in feet per second 
n is revolutions per second
D is prop diameter in feet

Or any set of 3 consistent units.

> 2a) I observe the engine putting out 90% of its rated
>  power at 60 kias at 10,000 feet.  Based on my experience,
>  that seems "optimistic" to say the least.
>http://www.av8n.com/fly/fgfs/engine-power.png
>  It is also "optimistic" for the engine to put out
>  more than 100% of its rated RPM at 10,000 feet at
>  modest airspeeds.
>
>
> 2b) Also I observe a trend:  At 10,000 feet, as the 
>  airspeed goes down, the engine rotation rate goes
>  down (as expected) but the shaft power output goes
>  _up_.
>http://www.av8n.com/fly/fgfs/engine-power.png
>  This power trend is not only unexpected based on
>  experience, it defies the laws of physics as I
>  understand them.  How can the engine produce more 
>  power at less RPM and constant manifold pressure?

The engine model (eng_io320) currently uses a BSFC of 0.37.  A value of
0.42 might perform more accurately.  Lower values for BSFC increase the
engine's power per fuel unit.

> I suspect these engine anomalies are /masking/ various 
> anomalies in the aircraft FDM.  So, ironically, fixing
> the engine will make some things look worse in the 
> short run.  Sometimes exposing a bug is the best way
> to start fixing it.




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[Flightgear-devel] External sound dependency in A6M2

2008-12-14 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Hi Tat,

do you noticed the A6M2 model use two sound files that are not in the base 
package :
Aircraft/p51d/Sounds/p51d_rpm1.wav and Aircraft/p51d/Sounds/p51d_startup.wav 
referenced in a6m2-sound.xml ?

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-12-14 Thread Csaba Halász
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Martin Spott  wrote:
>
> Not meaning to complain or trying to urge anyone, I just wanted to
> report back that setting:
>
>  --prop:/environment/weather-scenario=METAR
>
> either on the command line or in the ~/-fgfsrc file still does neither
> set the "Weather source" to "METAR" in the "Weather Scenario" menu nor
> does it set the respective entry in the property tree (according to the
> Property Browser).

That's because FGClouds constructor explicitly sets it to "none" for
some reason.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-12-14 Thread Martin Spott
"Csaba Hal??sz" wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:19 AM, Martin Spott  wrote:
> > Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> >> Martin wrote:
> >
> >> > Surprisingly, if you set another weather scenario via the menu, this is
> >> > going to find its proper represenation, as seen in the property
> >> > browser, in the "/environment/weather-scenario" property. If I set a
> >> > different scenario via the property browser, this does not have any
> >> > effect on the visual representation   therefore I'm also unable to
> >> > set a weather scenario via the
> >> >
> >> >   --prop:/environment/weather-scenario=METAR
> >> >
> >> > command line switch. TO me this looks a bit confusing to the user.
> >>
> >> I think it's a bug, rather than confusing :)
> >
> > So, may I, in consequence, declare this as an open issue !?
> 
> I spotted a string comparison problem, see attached patch, that might
> explain some of the oddness.

Not meaning to complain or trying to urge anyone, I just wanted to
report back that setting:

  --prop:/environment/weather-scenario=METAR

either on the command line or in the ~/-fgfsrc file still does neither
set the "Weather source" to "METAR" in the "Weather Scenario" menu nor
does it set the respective entry in the property tree (according to the
Property Browser). When setting the string to METAR in the Property
Browser I _do_ experience a visible change in the cloud scenario and
the "Weather source" indeed lists METAR, but the clouds still look
different from those which I get by selecting the respective "Weather
source" again, directly in the "Weather Scenario" menu.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

2008-12-14 Thread Jon Stockill
Durk Talsma wrote:

> Is it hard for you to compile a list of errors, so we can have a look? We 
> edited most by hand, so it is quite likely some typo's etc. slipped in.

I've mailed you a list.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

2008-12-14 Thread Yon Uriarte
Hi,

On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Jon Stockill  wrote:

> When importing the recently committed traffic files into the traffic
> database I've noticed that there is some duplication, for example:
>
> EC-HDT is defined for both CLI and IBE with different liveries.
>

CLI: clickair, IBE: iberia, IIRC ibe bought cli recently.


>
>
> Jon
>

greetings,
 yon
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

2008-12-14 Thread Durk Talsma
Hi Jon

On Sunday 14 December 2008 20:00:19 Jon Stockill wrote:
> Jon Stockill wrote:
> > When importing the recently committed traffic files into the traffic
> > database I've noticed that there is some duplication, for example:
> >
> > EC-HDT is defined for both CLI and IBE with different liveries.

I used:

http://www.airfleets.net/home/

to get the relevant aircraft data. Duplications in the registration numbers 
could indicate either errors this database, or copyediting errors while 
transcribing.
>
> Some problems with flights too, looks like KLM0757 departs at 10:20 on
> wednesdays to MPTO, and again at 10:45 to VOHS.
>

Those are probably just copy paste errors. 

Is it hard for you to compile a list of errors, so we can have a look? We 
edited most by hand, so it is quite likely some typo's etc. slipped in.

Cheers,
Durk

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Patch for fgfs never leaving game mode

2008-12-14 Thread Peter Pindsle

Csaba Halász wrote:

On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:59 AM, James Turner  wrote:
  

I agree with the reasoning here, but I've never used game mode in my
life, and I'm slightly surprised that we're still using GLUT at all, I
thought everything was running through osgViewer now. It's not an area
of the code I feel qualified to give a yes or no answer to, I'm afraid.

Tim Moore is probably the person with the clearest idea how GLUT fits
into things nowadays.



Indeed, we aren't using glut anymore. Tim has removed all support for
it (including the referenced fg_os.cxx file) from CVS/HEAD 3 weeks
ago.
Peter, you must be using the obsolete PLIB branch, please switch to CVS/HEAD.

  

OK, thanks for the tips.

Peter.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] c172 flight characteristics

2008-12-14 Thread John Denker
On 12/13/2008 06:16 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote:

> The manual should allow some fairly thorough testing. 

OK, good.  I reckon thorough testing would be helpful.

As several others have mentioned, before delving too
deeply into the Cessna-specific details, it might be
worthwhile to vet the engine and prop models.

Here are some specific hints about where to look:

1) Under standard sea-level conditions, I observe the
 c172p model (from rc2) developing 120% of its rated
 power at _zero_ kias.  That is peculiar, to say the
 least.  Usually the static power is significantly
 less than the rated power ... not more.

2a) I observe the engine putting out 90% of its rated
 power at 60 kias at 10,000 feet.  Based on my experience,
 that seems "optimistic" to say the least.
   http://www.av8n.com/fly/fgfs/engine-power.png
 It is also "optimistic" for the engine to put out
 more than 100% of its rated RPM at 10,000 feet at
 modest airspeeds.

2b) Also I observe a trend:  At 10,000 feet, as the 
 airspeed goes down, the engine rotation rate goes
 down (as expected) but the shaft power output goes
 _up_.
   http://www.av8n.com/fly/fgfs/engine-power.png
 This power trend is not only unexpected based on
 experience, it defies the laws of physics as I
 understand them.  How can the engine produce more 
 power at less RPM and constant manifold pressure?

I suspect these engine anomalies are /masking/ various 
anomalies in the aircraft FDM.  So, ironically, fixing
the engine will make some things look worse in the 
short run.  Sometimes exposing a bug is the best way
to start fixing it.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-12-14 Thread Heiko Schulz

> 
> committed. Would it be possible to have some randomness
> when creating a
> layer :
> http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_clouds_grid.jpg ? This
> effect appeared with the last cloudset. Before that it was
> unnoticable
> because there was an overlap between cloud patches ( but
> there was also
> an ugly pink tint I am happy it disappeared )
> 
> Regards,
> -Fred
> 
For this the cloudlayer.xml has to be changed a little. It seems to me that the 
boxes of this cloudlayer has to be changed a bit.


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

2008-12-14 Thread Jon Stockill
Jon Stockill wrote:
> When importing the recently committed traffic files into the traffic 
> database I've noticed that there is some duplication, for example:
> 
> EC-HDT is defined for both CLI and IBE with different liveries.

Some problems with flights too, looks like KLM0757 departs at 10:20 on 
wednesdays to MPTO, and again at 10:45 to VOHS.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-12-14 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Hi Stuart,

Stuart Buchanan a écrit :
> Csaba wrote:
>
>   
>> Also, add one new bug reported by Jano: even if you are using METAR
>> scenario, METAR updates don't affect the visuals. That is, if you fly
>> to another airport, or wait for the 15 minute update interval, nothing
>> changes even though the new values show in the property browser.
>> 
>
> The attached patch fixes this - the 3D clouds now respect changes to 
> the environment caused by updated METAR etc.
>
> It also increases the AlphaFunc as suggested by Tim.
>
> I've also committed Heiko's latest cloud changes. Please let me know 
> if these improve things. 
>   

committed. Would it be possible to have some randomness when creating a
layer : http://frbouvi.free.fr/flightsim/fgfs_clouds_grid.jpg ? This
effect appeared with the last cloudset. Before that it was unnoticable
because there was an overlap between cloud patches ( but there was also
an ugly pink tint I am happy it disappeared )

Regards,
-Fred

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[Flightgear-devel] New Traffic Files

2008-12-14 Thread Jon Stockill
When importing the recently committed traffic files into the traffic 
database I've noticed that there is some duplication, for example:

EC-HDT is defined for both CLI and IBE with different liveries.


Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 3D Clouds - patch and progress report

2008-12-14 Thread Stuart Buchanan
Csaba wrote:

> Also, add one new bug reported by Jano: even if you are using METAR
> scenario, METAR updates don't affect the visuals. That is, if you fly
> to another airport, or wait for the 15 minute update interval, nothing
> changes even though the new values show in the property browser.

The attached patch fixes this - the 3D clouds now respect changes to 
the environment caused by updated METAR etc.

It also increases the AlphaFunc as suggested by Tim.

I've also committed Heiko's latest cloud changes. Please let me know 
if these improve things. 

-Stuart


  

clouds.tar.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] More 3D cloud changes

2008-12-14 Thread Yon Uriarte
Hi,

On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Heiko Schulz  wrote:

>
> My last cloudset has fewer but larger sprites. I did this because I noticed
> that it saves a lot of fps. On the forum Gijs noticed the same with my
> cloudset.
>
> Mores sprites means more alpha and more textures which is always a
> fps-killer.
> I'm pretty sure that there is another solution looking to X-plane which
> seems to use the same technic for their clouds.
>


 Fewer bigger sprites with few parts of the sprite with  0 < alpha < 1. One
opaque pre-pass drawing front to back with
alpha culling != 1 and blending off to fill up z-buffer then a second pass
back to front with alpha culling < 1 and blending on.
Second pass gets massively z-culled, saving on rop blending bandwidth. First
pass gets also z-culled by itself.

 It's a tradeoff between cpu and gpu fill and blend rate, whatever is your
bottleneck.
Sadly, that changes between machines, so the opaque pre-pass should be a
configurable.


>
> Regards
> HHS
>

greetings,
 yon
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] More 3D cloud changes

2008-12-14 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,

Well:

> It seems to
> me that there are 
> relatively few sprites per cloud, unless perhaps I've
> screwed something up 
> somewhere else. This means that each cloud sprite is quite
> large, which makes 
> sorting them difficult. I suggest trying to build the
> clouds with smaller 
> sprites. We're not "vertex limited" or
> anything.

My last cloudset has fewer but larger sprites. I did this because I noticed 
that it saves a lot of fps. On the forum Gijs noticed the same with my cloudset.

Mores sprites means more alpha and more textures which is always a fps-killer.
I'm pretty sure that there is another solution looking to X-plane which seems 
to use the same technic for their clouds.

Regards
HHS 


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Patch for fgfs never leaving game mode

2008-12-14 Thread Csaba Halász
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:59 AM, James Turner  wrote:
>
> I agree with the reasoning here, but I've never used game mode in my
> life, and I'm slightly surprised that we're still using GLUT at all, I
> thought everything was running through osgViewer now. It's not an area
> of the code I feel qualified to give a yes or no answer to, I'm afraid.
>
> Tim Moore is probably the person with the clearest idea how GLUT fits
> into things nowadays.

Indeed, we aren't using glut anymore. Tim has removed all support for
it (including the referenced fg_os.cxx file) from CVS/HEAD 3 weeks
ago.
Peter, you must be using the obsolete PLIB branch, please switch to CVS/HEAD.

-- 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] More 3D cloud changes

2008-12-14 Thread Tim Moore
I have a couple of observations about the clouds.

I think that cranking up the AlphaFunc value would help with the "blue outline" 
problem. That being said, blue outlines are a symptom of sorting problems. I 
see 
a lot of these when testing a local hack that fully sorts the cloud sprites 
instead of doing the partial bubble sort thing. It seems to me that there are 
relatively few sprites per cloud, unless perhaps I've screwed something up 
somewhere else. This means that each cloud sprite is quite large, which makes 
sorting them difficult. I suggest trying to build the clouds with smaller 
sprites. We're not "vertex limited" or anything.

Finally, there is an ordering problem between 2D cloud layer tops and the 3D 
clouds. Stuart got most of the way there with the 2D cloud bottoms; I'll see 
what I can do about the cloud tops.

Tim

gerard robin wrote:
> On samedi 13 décembre 2008, Heiko Schulz wrote:
>> I forgot the link to the video:
>> http://www.vimeo.com/2511328
>>
>>
>>
> Are we sure that the last FG CVS (this morning) contains update which should 
> solve this  (from me)
>   at a higher altitude leaving the "fog",  suddenly the clouds layer under
>  vanish partly, like a mask which move above, then  we get with transparency
>  the sea. We should have a full layer  of clouds
> 
>  again  an alpha order  problem
>  http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/3DClouds-img14.jpg
> 
> or this (from Heiko)
> 
> Images:
> www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-713.jpg
> 
> and some seconds later:
> 
> www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-714.jpg
> 
> I do have it again.
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] More 3D cloud changes

2008-12-14 Thread gerard robin
On samedi 13 décembre 2008, Heiko Schulz wrote:
> I forgot the link to the video:
> http://www.vimeo.com/2511328
>
>
>
Are we sure that the last FG CVS (this morning) contains update which should 
solve this  (from me)
  at a higher altitude leaving the "fog",  suddenly the clouds layer under
 vanish partly, like a mask which move above, then  we get with transparency
 the sea. We should have a full layer  of clouds

 again  an alpha order  problem
 http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/3DClouds-img14.jpg

or this (from Heiko)

Images:
www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-713.jpg

and some seconds later:

www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-714.jpg

I do have it again.



-- 
Gérard
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/

J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. 
Voltaire


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Patch for fgfs never leaving game mode

2008-12-14 Thread James Turner

On 14 Dec 2008, at 07:22, Peter Pindsle wrote:

> When running the opengl (glut) version of fgfs on linux, if I use the
> --enable-game-mode option, it sets the display correctly and all works
> beautifully.  However, once I leave fgfs, the screen resolution stays
> set to whatever I specified on the fgfs command line instead of
> reverting to the original desktop size.
>
> I couldn't find a solution to this, but after quite a bit of  
> searching,
> I found that fgfs tells glut to enter 'game mode' on initialisation,  
> but
> never tells it to leave.  Not sure if this perhaps happens  
> automatically
> on exit with the Windows glut libraries, but it doesn't seem to with  
> the
> freeglut build I am using.  (freeglut 2.4.0 on Fedora 10)
>
> So, I added an atexit() callback for glutLeaveGameMode() and now it
> correctly reverts to the original screen resolution when I exit.

I agree with the reasoning here, but I've never used game mode in my  
life, and I'm slightly surprised that we're still using GLUT at all, I  
thought everything was running through osgViewer now. It's not an area  
of the code I feel qualified to give a yes or no answer to, I'm afraid.

Tim Moore is probably the person with the clearest idea how GLUT fits  
into things nowadays.

Thanks for the contribution, regardless.

James


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