[Flightgear-devel] Class-based MP aircraft visibility

[Jörg Emmerich]

As someone doing ATC 4 days/week, I would like to bring in another point
of view to this issue:

Very definitely we need such a tool for the environment Stuart described
as "the main use-case are pilots wishing to practice .. ATC-controlled
environment". And I agree, those (like e.g. the TGA-events) would
benefit from it most - and I do participate in that TGA and believe it
is great and needs to extend much more -- especially for those "who know
already".

BUT: That is not the environment I want to stress here! In FlightGear we
constantly have lots of Newcomers and especially young ones - we need to
get their attention and convince them to like flying in a controlled
manner -- i.e. do "marketing" for that idea! And best marketing is
addressing people not knowing about it yet and make them curious. The
opposite we would achieve if we build up borders by defining who may do
what -- mostly even prior to them knowing that there exist such things!
Please do not forget: Most people hate to read User-Manuals - especially
our youngsters get into the plane - switch on AP - and off they go. You
need to get there interest!!

In my experience (as ATC-EDDF and strong promoter of FGCOM) most people
drop in because there shows up a crowed in the MPmap - so they want to
join the happening. By the way: At that point the biggest problems is,
that those do not yet have FGCOM --- and do not notice what is going on
because they do not hear the instructions (about 50% FGCOM, sometimes
close to 100%)! That is one of the reasons why I often send the MPchat
msg's in addition to the FGCOM handling. Those guys then notice pretty
fast that working with FGCOM is much better than typing - and start
asking how to! (Achieving that is my goal!)

And yes: There are also those kids, that just try to get some attention
from someone and do everything for that -- they are a real pain in
the ... -- and I very often wish I could just lock them out! On the
other hand I notice (when the biggest stress is over) that after
ignoring them (although they know we others still see them!) they calm
down pretty fast - AND: More then 50% come back some time later to join
in! That is my repayment for the pain! I guess every salesman knows that
problem and success! And everybody has seen the little lonesome kids at
the playground - not knowing how they could join in -- those I want to
help - by which I believe there are a lot of grownups behaving the same
way as those kids!))

If I interpret Rob correct, his TGA would be the perfect customer for
those limitations -- but also he is very much  interested in getting new
people, even if they do not yet qualify in the minimums! I guess you
call it: Learning by doing!

So my take is:
- yes, we need the ability to lock some people out, if it is getting too
bad
- but do not lock out people because they may not (yet) have a certain
qualification
--> try to find a balance between those two!

I know everybody believes we Germans like to regulate everything: I
would prefer to convince!
joe


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] should src/Include/config.h-msvcXX be in .gitignore?

[Torsten Dreyer]

> On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Torsten Dreyer  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > after cloneing the flightgear sources and running make, git status says
> >
> > #   modified:   config.h-msvc71
> > #   modified:   config.h-msvc8
> > #   modified:   config.h-msvc90
> >
> > I didn't touch them for sure.
> >
> > Torsten
> >
> Did you do an in source tree build? These files do get created when
> 
> building flightgear, but they are also in the source repo. They should
> probably be removed and /or put in .gitignore.
Yes, I build in the source tree - bad habits are hard to break ;-)
If these files are created in the build process, the should not be under 
source control, I'd say. 

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] git from cvs

[Sid Boyce]

http://www.io.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/v1.4.4.4/cvs-migration.html
I haven't read it through, but this seems as though it's designed for
such a conversion.
Regards
Sid.


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[Flightgear-devel] [PATCH] Fix fgviewer segfault

[Jeff Taylor]

Hello,

fgviewer crashes when reading channel options (which it doesn't use).
Here is a patch which fixes this by adding a pointer check.

This is my first ever patch to any open source project, so feedback
would be appreciated. :)

Jeff Taylor

---
 src/Main/options.cxx |8 
 1 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/src/Main/options.cxx b/src/Main/options.cxx
index bededfb..0132c02 100644
--- a/src/Main/options.cxx
+++ b/src/Main/options.cxx
@@ -530,6 +530,14 @@ parse_fov( const string& arg ) {

 static bool
 add_channel( const string& type, const string& channel_str ) {
+// This check is neccessary to prevent fgviewer from segfaulting when given
+// weird options. (It doesn't run the full initailization)
+if(globals->get_channel_options_list() == NULL)
+{
+SG_LOG(SG_GENERAL, SG_ALERT, "Option " << type << "=" << channel_str
+ << " ignored.");
+return false; // This isn't checked for, but it shouldn't matter
+}
 SG_LOG(SG_GENERAL, SG_INFO, "Channel string = " << channel_str );
 globals->get_channel_options_list()->push_back( type + "," + channel_str );
 return true;
-- 
1.7.0.1

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] should src/Include/config.h-msvcXX be in.gitignore?

[Anders Gidenstam]

On Sat, 22 May 2010, Alan Teeder wrote:

> TortoiseGit is rather flaky. It does not run out of the box and the
> suggestions on the various forums are quite varied. In my case I fixed it by
> using the tip in
> http://groups.google.com/group/tortoisegit-users/browse_thread/thread/ff1d81f59cd5fe90.

You could try msysgit. I've found it works pretty well on Windows Vista 
and Windows 7 and behaves the same as the Unix commandline version.
By typing  'git  --help' it even opens the manual page for  in 
your default browser.

http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/

Cheers,

Anders
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] should src/Include/config.h-msvcXX be in.gitignore?

[Alan Teeder]

--
From: "Torsten Dreyer" 
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 7:20 PM
To: 
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] should src/Include/config.h-msvcXX be 
in.gitignore?

> Hi,
>
> after cloneing the flightgear sources and running make, git status says
>
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc71
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc8
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc90
>
> I didn't touch them for sure.
>
> Torsten


Not sure about that, but simgear/simgear/version.h is still missing /(or not 
generated automatically) for Msvc users. This was reported ages ago.

My first attempt at a build from the git-maint branch failed in 
SGClipGroup.hxx, with the message "RegisterRenderBinProxy is not a member of 
osgUtil"

This was reported and very quickly fixed back in March.

I do not see this problem using the git-next branch.

TortoiseGit is rather flaky. It does not run out of the box and the 
suggestions on the various forums are quite varied. In my case I fixed it by 
using the tip in 
http://groups.google.com/group/tortoisegit-users/browse_thread/thread/ff1d81f59cd5fe90.

Apart from these foibles the git distribution builds in the same 
XP/Vista/VC++ Express 2008 environment that I have been using for some time.


Alan 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] should src/Include/config.h-msvcXX be in .gitignore?

[Tim Moore]

On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Torsten Dreyer  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> after cloneing the flightgear sources and running make, git status says
>
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc71
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc8
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc90
>
> I didn't touch them for sure.
>
> Torsten
>
> Did you do an in source tree build? These files do get created when
building flightgear, but they are also in the source repo. They should
probably be removed and /or put in .gitignore.

Tim

>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] should src/Include/config.h-msvcXX be in .gitignore?

[Frederic Bouvier]

Le 22/05/2010 20:20, Torsten Dreyer a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> after cloneing the flightgear sources and running make, git status says
>
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc71   
>  
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc8
>  
> #   modified:   config.h-msvc90  
>
> I didn't touch them for sure.
>
>   

The same thing happens to me with text files in the data repository. My
only bet is that it is related to file endings that are transformed by
checkout.

-Fred


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[Flightgear-devel] should src/Include/config.h-msvcXX be in .gitignore?

[Torsten Dreyer]

Hi,

after cloneing the flightgear sources and running make, git status says

#   modified:   config.h-msvc71 
   
#   modified:   config.h-msvc8  
   
#   modified:   config.h-msvc90  

I didn't touch them for sure.

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear git repositories (was Re: GIT or CVS - Confusion)

[Stefan Seifert]

On Saturday 22 May 2010 15:16:41 Jonathan Wagner wrote:
> What about "git clone --no-checkout" in the data directory? This should
> create/pull the .git folder with all of the VCS information, but not
> actually download any files.  After that completes, try running git status
> to see if only changes since your CVS update are out of date or if the
>  whole repository wants to be checked out.

I don't think that changes anything, since the .git folder contains all the 
data of all revisions anyway (compressed) and I cannot imagine that a git 
clone does actually transfer more than that. I just checked fg-data out and it 
transfered about 2.16GiB of data.

If it helps, I could put that in a .tar.lzma on my webserver and you could 
download as much as you can afford this month and the rest next month. Just 
tell me if you want.

Stefan

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Developers

[Tim Moore]

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:32 AM, Peter Morgan wrote:

> Its is/was bit of a "dark" how to get commit "permission" to FG and its
> seems to be one Curt in control.
>
> Can someone explain to process to submitting patches to this new git
> scenario, or are we to be held in the grey area of hopefulnes as well ?
>
> eg I'd like to submit a patch for the 787 that actually makes it boot up!
>
> I encourage people to submit patches either to the mailing list -- using
git format-patch -- or through the merge request process on gitorious.

By the way, I merged two of Anders' merge requests today. I did this because
they seem to be well isolated and I trust Anders not to screw things up, but
in general I will not be handling merge requests in fgdata because I'm
simply not qualified to vet random changes to aircraft. I encourage people
who have commit rights to fgdata to review merge requests and merge them;
I'll be happy to help with the git mechanics.

Tim
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear git repositories (was Re: GIT or CVS - Confusion)

[Jonathan Wagner]

What about "git clone --no-checkout" in the data directory? This should
create/pull the .git folder with all of the VCS information, but not
actually download any files.  After that completes, try running git status
to see if only changes since your CVS update are out of date or if the whole
repository wants to be checked out.

Jonathan Wagner


On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 3:58 AM, Mattt  wrote:

>  James,
>
>   I explored this recently for the same reasons (NextG link - basically a
> slightly better 3G - at 9gb/mth and $250/gb over that). Basically, no can do
> :-(
>
>
> On 22/05/10 18:47, James Sleeman wrote:
>
> On 20/05/10 21:03, Tim Moore wrote:
>
> The Git source repositories for Simgear, Flightgear, and the data
> repositories are now fully enabled at
>
> Probably a silly question, but is there a way for those of us who have a
> somewhat recent CVS checkout to not have to start all over again with a
> complete checkout from the git.
>
> There's a lot of data that would have to be redundantly downloaded if not,
> and that's expensive for some of us, time and money both :-(
>
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear git repositories (was Re: GIT or CVS - Confusion)

[Mattt]

James,

  I explored this recently for the same reasons (NextG link - basically 
a slightly better 3G - at 9gb/mth and $250/gb over that). Basically, no 
can do :-(



On 22/05/10 18:47, James Sleeman wrote:

On 20/05/10 21:03, Tim Moore wrote:
The Git source repositories for Simgear, Flightgear, and the data 
repositories are now fully enabled at 
Probably a silly question, but is there a way for those of us who have 
a somewhat recent CVS checkout to not have to start all over again 
with a complete checkout from the git.


There's a lot of data that would have to be redundantly downloaded if 
not, and that's expensive for some of us, time and money both :-(



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear git repositories (was Re: GIT or CVS - Confusion)

[James Sleeman]

On 20/05/10 21:03, Tim Moore wrote:
The Git source repositories for Simgear, Flightgear, and the data 
repositories are now fully enabled at 
Probably a silly question, but is there a way for those of us who have a 
somewhat recent CVS checkout to not have to start all over again with a 
complete checkout from the git.


There's a lot of data that would have to be redundantly downloaded if 
not, and that's expensive for some of us, time and money both :-(


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