Re: [Flightgear-devel] Willfully violating Google Terms of Use under the FlightGear umbrella ?
Considering the same legal issues arise frequently, would you mind posting a link to the discussion, because all I can find is this: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Copyright_Inquiry And in a quick response to the second question, your scenery would be more detailed if you built it using SRTM-3 and CORINE data. I think SRTM-3 is already used for the areas it is available for, though, and there is possibly previously generated CORINE scenery available for the area you are interested in... Thanks John -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Wordmark terrasync
It looks like the trademark claim is energy based, in my opinion no possible consumer confusion between a piece of integrated software fetching a virtual world from a computer server and natural gas drilling. Thanks John -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Landcover Contribution
Terrasync only downloads from the Terrasync server. If the scenery data on the Custom layer has not been placed in the Terrasync server, you will not be able to download it. I have no idea why the improved Washington, DC is not on the Terrasync server (or for that matter, the improved Rio de Janeiro, and the improved London (not CORINE)). It's been on the custom scenery layer for awhile. If I can help remedy this please let me know. Also, as you know that region of Italy you is already covered by CORINE data - it would be difficult to get more detailed with hand-created data based off LANDSAT, but please feel free to make an attempt. Thanks John -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Willfully violating Google Terms of Use under the FlightGear umbrella ?
Considering the same legal issues arise frequently, would you mind posting a link to the discussion, because all I can find is this: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Copyright_Inquiry And in a quick response to the second question, your scenery would be more detailed if you built it using SRTM-3 and CORINE data. Just to add a note, building scenery with corine could probably be more detailed, but we will never be aware of the well known inconsistency corine has, whith each data cycle. You will find some papers about this. The give an example: we have a much more detailed classification system for Switzerland. Now this has been translated to corine, I guess - no, I'm sure - there are some compromises in classification. And this discussion you will find for every corine member probably. Now maybe when someone is looking to an area he/she knows very well, this inconstistency is noticable quickly. But from another point of view ... for the huge task to get more detailed scenery at europe overall the inconsistency doesnt matter that much. For me its imaginable to have more detailed custom scenery for distinct areas, digitized from scratch or using corine as a base and improving. Depends on resources. But first corine and other public sources have to be verified properly of course, and anyway wider experience using this layers for scenery creation is needed. Another question would be if it really makes sense to have more detailed and improved resources than corine for FlightGear scenery creation at all, or if this is more an interesting side project and somehow overstating the case. BTW. Im wondering why no one uses the new flightgear-scenery mailing list for such discussion? Does it need more promotion? Cheers, Yves -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Landcover Contribution
Not sure if you can get a much higher level of detail by hand drawing... I've found, downloaded and checked the Italy-Corine FlightGear scenery. Corine is great but it lacks a lot of details :-( Looks to be machine generated. My conclusion: I'm definetely gonna be able to do much better by hand!!! Btw, what's the source of the Corine dataset? Where does it all start from? A link to get more knowledge about that? -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
De : Roberto Inzerillo rob...@gmx.net À : FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Envoyé le : Mardi 13 mars 2012 13h30 Objet : Re: [Flightgear-devel] Landcover Contribution Btw, what's the source of the Corine dataset? Where does it all start from? A link to get more knowledge about that? The French wikipedia page is, for once, not that bad. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corine_Land_Cover The origin of it: http://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/COR0-landcover Olivier -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Landcover Contribution
Roberto Inzerillo wrote: I've found, downloaded and checked the Italy-Corine FlightGear scenery. Corine is great but it lacks a lot of details :-( Looks to be machine generated. That's what they call remote sensing ;-) - a prominent and fast-developing topic in today's GIS world. Anyhow, I talked to a person who was involved in producing the 1990 version of CORINE and as far as I can tell there still was a lot of traditional, manual map-making work involved Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
The French wikipedia page is, for once, not that bad. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corine_Land_Cover The origin of it: http://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/COR0-landcover Olivier Since I don't see the Corine landcover imported into FGFS World Scenery Terrain data set I suppose there's a license issue, is that it? -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Ciao Roberto, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Since I don't see the Corine landcover imported into FGFS World Scenery Terrain data set I suppose there's a license issue, is that it? Please read: http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg36273.html and: http://wiki.flightgear.org/FlightGear_Newsletter_January_2012#Scenery_corner There's a simple reason: The VMap0 data is affected by really ugly topological flaws - as is CORINE - and fixing these, which means creating a topologically clean VMap0 and CORINE, is a requirement for inserting CORINE or John Holden's custom landcover into VMap0. As far as I can tell you won't find a single place on the entire Net for downloading topologically clean VMap0 or CORINE for free. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Just a dumb question: can you give a brief summary of what topologically clean means? Thanks, Curt. On Mar 13, 2012 8:05 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: Ciao Roberto, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Since I don't see the Corine landcover imported into FGFS World Scenery Terrain data set I suppose there's a license issue, is that it? Please read: http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg36273.html and: http://wiki.flightgear.org/FlightGear_Newsletter_January_2012#Scenery_corner There's a simple reason: The VMap0 data is affected by really ugly topological flaws - as is CORINE - and fixing these, which means creating a topologically clean VMap0 and CORINE, is a requirement for inserting CORINE or John Holden's custom landcover into VMap0. As far as I can tell you won't find a single place on the entire Net for downloading topologically clean VMap0 or CORINE for free. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Wordmark terrasync
On Mon, 12 Mar 2012, J. Holden wrote: It looks like the trademark claim is energy based, in my opinion no possible consumer confusion between a piece of integrated software fetching a virtual world from a computer server and natural gas drilling. Unfortunately John, that doesn't mean much these days. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Curtis Olson wrote: Just a dumb question: can you give a brief summary of what topologically clean means? No gaps, no overlaps (affects both VMap0 and CORINE), no objects which don't belong into a polygon coverage (particularly VMap0, makes the GEOS library crash). It's preferrable not even to have very small gaps or very small overlaps - that's not necessarily required for mixing land cover datasets but gaps and overlaps are both having a well-proven tradition of crashing fgfs-construct. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Curtis Olson wrote: Just a dumb question: can you give a brief summary of what topologically clean means? I guess you always wondered why I've been pounding on these datasets for so long ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Hi Martin, Ok, understood. I just wanted to make sure what I imagined topologically clean might mean matched your usage. :-) So really, much of the terragear code itself is there to create a topologically clean data set from a plethora of inputs from a wide variety of sources. The problem is that the terragear mechanism uses the GPC polygon clipping library -- and real world GIS data imposes every nasty degenerate case you can imagine -- and does it at the limits of floating point resolution. In some ways you can think of this as inconsistencies that are too small for the GPC library to detect so that leads to non-topologically consistent results. This can lead to any number of problems -- ranging from crashing GPC itself to crashing just about any of the down stream code. I've spent hundreds of hours (probably) investigating individual cases and crafting detection/fixing code for a variety of types of problems. But as you increase the resolution of the data, you just increase the number of these problems, probably stack them on top of each other in some cases, and probably invent some new ones I hadn't seen in the lower res data. Well, it's just a whole lot of fun. :-) And you could create a topologically clean land cover database which is a good thing. But then try to mix this with some other dataset (airports from Robin for instance) and be right back to having topological problems again. I have been wondering if some sort of rasterized painting algorithm would be simpler and more robust (at the expense of some resolution.) And this could be done offline and not involve opengl or rendering at all -- just big 2D arrays. Essentially paint a big image from bottom to top using your polygon data, and then extract the result into actual polygons -- kind of the same process as we do now, but do it in raster space rather than vector space. Every once in a while I've wondered if we've made the problem too hard for ourselves and maybe we should be seeking a bit simpler solution and learn to live with some different set of trade offs? Best regards, Curt. On Mar 13, 2012 8:26 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: Just a dumb question: can you give a brief summary of what topologically clean means? I guess you always wondered why I've been pounding on these datasets for so long ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Willfully violating Google Terms of Use
flightg...@sablonier.ch wrote: BTW. I=92m wondering why no one uses the new flightgear-scenery mailing list for such discussion? Does it need more promotion? According to my personal experience it simply doesn't get any work done to have yet another communication channel (just look at the Scenery web forum - you know what I mean ;-) but it adds more overhead because there's one more channel to monitor. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Hi Curt, I haven't yet spent 100s of hours yet, but my computer has (testing some more problem detectors in terragear). Most of these were to address issues when building the apt.dat version 850 parser. It's certainly not fun. 20,000 airports, and you can get it down to 4 or 5 that crash triangulation. So you look at the poly that crashes, and see some issue that may or may not be the root cause. modify, test the offending airport and it works! Retest all 20,000, and you end up with 5 different crashes on 5 different airports. rinse and repeat. over and over. I think I have a 'solution' now that works 'good enough'. If I snap to a 1cm grid, I get all but a few airports working - If i slightly modify the grid (either 1/2 cm, or 1/4 cm), I can get the rest. I've used a lot of these solutions as well when using Corrine and OSM data in fgfs-construct with similar results. I think the best solution is a combination of the two - using Martin's GRASS work to fix as many issues as possible, and increasing the robustness of terragear to handle anything that falls through the cracks. Also, There's another clipping library that we've been experimenting with that uses int64 for vertices, instead of fp. It certainly helps in some situations, and the author is still actively maintaining the library. He is willing to accept problems we find. Pete On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Martin, Ok, understood. I just wanted to make sure what I imagined topologically clean might mean matched your usage. :-) So really, much of the terragear code itself is there to create a topologically clean data set from a plethora of inputs from a wide variety of sources. The problem is that the terragear mechanism uses the GPC polygon clipping library -- and real world GIS data imposes every nasty degenerate case you can imagine -- and does it at the limits of floating point resolution. In some ways you can think of this as inconsistencies that are too small for the GPC library to detect so that leads to non-topologically consistent results. This can lead to any number of problems -- ranging from crashing GPC itself to crashing just about any of the down stream code. I've spent hundreds of hours (probably) investigating individual cases and crafting detection/fixing code for a variety of types of problems. But as you increase the resolution of the data, you just increase the number of these problems, probably stack them on top of each other in some cases, and probably invent some new ones I hadn't seen in the lower res data. Well, it's just a whole lot of fun. :-) And you could create a topologically clean land cover database which is a good thing. But then try to mix this with some other dataset (airports from Robin for instance) and be right back to having topological problems again. I have been wondering if some sort of rasterized painting algorithm would be simpler and more robust (at the expense of some resolution.) And this could be done offline and not involve opengl or rendering at all -- just big 2D arrays. Essentially paint a big image from bottom to top using your polygon data, and then extract the result into actual polygons -- kind of the same process as we do now, but do it in raster space rather than vector space. Every once in a while I've wondered if we've made the problem too hard for ourselves and maybe we should be seeking a bit simpler solution and learn to live with some different set of trade offs? Best regards, Curt. On Mar 13, 2012 8:26 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: Just a dumb question: can you give a brief summary of what topologically clean means? I guess you always wondered why I've been pounding on these datasets for so long ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Hi Curt, Curtis Olson wrote: So really, much of the terragear code itself is there to create a topologically clean data set from a plethora of inputs from a wide variety of sources. The problem is that the terragear mechanism uses the GPC polygon clipping library -- and real world GIS data imposes every nasty degenerate case you can imagine -- and does it at the limits of floating point resolution. In some ways you can think of this as inconsistencies that are too small for the GPC library to detect so that leads to non-topologically consistent results. Yup, we've discussed this a lot in the past. But the GPC lib is not the sole cause of trouble. There are more items in the processing chain which, while trying to sanitize the slivers for example, are adding even more topological inconsistencies to the picture (centroids ending up sitting in the neighbour polygon). That's why I chose GRASS GIS as the preferred tool, simply because it's known to be topologically robust. I suspect GRASS probably wasn't an option back in these days when you've been working on TerraGear, but a lot has changed in the meantime. Anyhow, GRASS doesn't work wonders, the garbage-in - garbage-out principle still applies. That's why I've been working on creating clean datasets which has the neat side-effect that you don't need to have a landmass any more. And you could create a topologically clean land cover database which is a good thing. But then try to mix this with some other dataset (airports from Robin for instance) and be right back to having topological problems again. No :-) What I was having in mind - and what I actually did - is converting the airport holes (the work directories written by genapts) into shapes and cutting these out of the land cover. Voila, topologically clean airport hole boundaries (I admit you have to dabble with the Z axis a bit). I've done the same with OSM road data - look at this sample, these roads are real polygons and I've been cutting these out _before_ feeding the result to TerraGear: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/map/?lon=6.5045lat=51.23036zoom=14layers=000BTTFFTFFF That's how the result looks like (a screenshot I made for a presentation at PGConf.DE last year): http://foxtrot.mgras.net/bitmap/FGFS/EDLN-OpenLayers-RoadCutout.png Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Willfully violating Google Terms of Use
Am 13.03.12 17:46, schrieb Martin Spott: According to my personal experience it simply doesn't get any work done to have yet another communication channel (just look at the Scenery web forum - you know what I mean ;-) but it adds more overhead because there's one more channel to monitor. Cheers, Martin. Yes, yes, always the same argumentation here far any kind of change. It was not meant as another channel. It replaces this one. ;-)) Cheers, Yves -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Hi Martin, (Replying from my tablet so its really hard to not top-post, sorry.) You are probably correct that sliver elimination could be causing errors with the point in a polygon computation -- but this seems to be an order problem and I'm pretty sure this wan't always the case -- but that doesn't matter if it's a problem in the current code. Agreed that topological consistency problems would go away if you do all the polygon clipping with your external grass tools and none of it within terragear -- but you can't mix them anywhere or you'll be back to having problems again. I'm not sure why not having a landmass is a neat side effect? That was simply a catchall for covering areas not covered by other data -- I could only see that causing problems if the input is not topologically consistent. Regards, Curt. On Mar 13, 2012 10:23 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: Hi Curt, Curtis Olson wrote: So really, much of the terragear code itself is there to create a topologically clean data set from a plethora of inputs from a wide variety of sources. The problem is that the terragear mechanism uses the GPC polygon clipping library -- and real world GIS data imposes every nasty degenerate case you can imagine -- and does it at the limits of floating point resolution. In some ways you can think of this as inconsistencies that are too small for the GPC library to detect so that leads to non-topologically consistent results. Yup, we've discussed this a lot in the past. But the GPC lib is not the sole cause of trouble. There are more items in the processing chain which, while trying to sanitize the slivers for example, are adding even more topological inconsistencies to the picture (centroids ending up sitting in the neighbour polygon). That's why I chose GRASS GIS as the preferred tool, simply because it's known to be topologically robust. I suspect GRASS probably wasn't an option back in these days when you've been working on TerraGear, but a lot has changed in the meantime. Anyhow, GRASS doesn't work wonders, the garbage-in - garbage-out principle still applies. That's why I've been working on creating clean datasets which has the neat side-effect that you don't need to have a landmass any more. And you could create a topologically clean land cover database which is a good thing. But then try to mix this with some other dataset (airports from Robin for instance) and be right back to having topological problems again. No :-) What I was having in mind - and what I actually did - is converting the airport holes (the work directories written by genapts) into shapes and cutting these out of the land cover. Voila, topologically clean airport hole boundaries (I admit you have to dabble with the Z axis a bit). I've done the same with OSM road data - look at this sample, these roads are real polygons and I've been cutting these out _before_ feeding the result to TerraGear: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/map/?lon=6.5045lat=51.23036zoom=14layers=000BTTFFTFFF That's how the result looks like (a screenshot I made for a presentation at PGConf.DE last year): http://foxtrot.mgras.net/bitmap/FGFS/EDLN-OpenLayers-RoadCutout.png Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Curtis Olson wrote: I'm not sure why not having a landmass is a neat side effect? That was simply a catchall for covering areas not covered by other data -- I could only see that causing problems if the input is not topologically consistent. indeed, which is the case with stock VMap0. Regarding the neat side effect: When you aim at replacing the rather coarse VMap0 by detailed custom land cover in coastal regions, then you have to do *something* about the landmass. As long as you rely on having a landmass, adjusting this to the new, detailed land cover is a requirement, because otherwise you'll loose the accuracy of your new, shiny coastline. Imagine how long it took me to manually remove the remains of VMap0 after inserting John's custom land cover just at this rather small place here: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/map/?lon=-71.41411lat=41.57204zoom=11layers=B000TFFF and then think about how long it would take to adjust the landmass accordingly. Therefore I preferred to fill the voids in VMap0 just one single time and to deal with topologically clean data only from this moment. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Just to be clear -- I understand where you are coming from now. But this is an issue of choosing which data sets to include in a world build, and not so much of an algorithm/code issue. Regards, Curt. On Mar 13, 2012 10:50 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: I'm not sure why not having a landmass is a neat side effect? That was simply a catchall for covering areas not covered by other data -- I could only see that causing problems if the input is not topologically consistent. indeed, which is the case with stock VMap0. Regarding the neat side effect: When you aim at replacing the rather coarse VMap0 by detailed custom land cover in coastal regions, then you have to do *something* about the landmass. As long as you rely on having a landmass, adjusting this to the new, detailed land cover is a requirement, because otherwise you'll loose the accuracy of your new, shiny coastline. Imagine how long it took me to manually remove the remains of VMap0 after inserting John's custom land cover just at this rather small place here: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/map/?lon=-71.41411lat=41.57204zoom=11layers=B000TFFF and then think about how long it would take to adjust the landmass accordingly. Therefore I preferred to fill the voids in VMap0 just one single time and to deal with topologically clean data only from this moment. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] auto-coordination
Hi Syd,
This is now in git:
The auto-coordination and auto-coordination-factor properties now live
in /controls/flight. A backward compatibility check in aircraft.nas
checks if somebody created /sim/auto-coordination and if so, spits out
a warning messages and makes this property an alias pointing to the new
one in /controls/flight.
The auto-coordination-factor gets initialized with the default value of
0.5 if it does not exist but keeps it's value if it does exist.
This implementation does not break the existing behavior (well,
hopefully). One now may change the amount of rudder deflection due to
aileron deflection (if auto-coordination is on) by changing the factor
property. Setting the factor property to zero does not move the rudder,
even if auto-coordination is on.
Long message for something that simple, just give it a try ;-)
FG and FGDATA pull required!
Torsten
Am 10.03.2012 15:21, schrieb syd adams:
Sounds good to me.Thanks for dealing with this.
Syd
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Torsten Dreyertors...@t3r.de wrote:
This is in fact my preferred solution.
- it does not break existing aircraft
- it keeps existing --enable-auto-coordination behavior
- it is configurable, even at runtime
- minimal code change
I have the patch ready and I'm about to commit it. While at it, I'd like
to move the involved properties out of /sim/ to /controls.
/sim is so very much unstructured and a melting pot for properties that
never found an appropriate location. And I think /controls just fits
better than don't know where, so put it in /sim. Objections?
I'll take care of the wrightFlyer1903, the pa22, the waveXtreme150, the
Saitek X52 and the bintest protocol in FGDATA and adjust the names
accordingly.
Torsten
Am 09.03.2012 21:41, schrieb syd adams:
Now that sounds like an even better idea.Less chance of breaking
anything , but still adjustable.Thanks Torsten.
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Torsten Dreyertors...@t3r.dewrote:
Am 09.03.2012 20:44, schrieb syd adams:
Ok I haven't entirely given up on the idea of removing the
auto-coordination from the code.Wouldn't it be more appropriate to add
that rudder control to controls.nas?
Then it can be replaced if need be on a per aircraft basis , but not
break anything
otherwise.And maybe it could be slip/skid-ball driven ... my whole
point is NOT to disable it but make it configurable.
Currently the rudder is set to 0.5 * aileron if autocoordination is
enabled. The value of 0.5 is hardcoded.
An easy and portable way to implement your request might be to introduce
a new property (e.g. /sim/auto-coordination-factor) with the default
value of 0.5. and change the code
if ( auto_coordination-getBoolValue() ) {
set_rudder( aileron / 2.0 );
}
to
if ( auto_coordination-getBoolValue()
auto_coordination_factor-getDoubleValue()0.0 ) {
set_rudder( aileron * auto_coordination_factor-getDoubleValue() );
}
so that setting /sim/auto-coordination-factor to a value of zero or less
disables the hardcoded auto-coordination but leaves the command-line
argument and the enable-property usable.
Torsten
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the current reason for the backlog of adding new scenery areas to the custom scenery server? Thanks John -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
J. Holden wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but what is the current reason for the backlog of adding new scenery areas to the custom scenery server? http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg36616.html Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Landcover Contribution
Curtis Olson wrote: Just to be clear -- I understand where you are coming from now. But this is an issue of choosing which data sets to include in a world build, and not so much of an algorithm/code issue. Regarding the neat feature of rendering landmass obsolete that's correct. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
