Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Hi, just a little reminder for those who missed the original announcement: The usual crowd is presenting FlightGear on the LinuxTag expo these days (http://www.linuxtag.org/). Typically we are around EDDF or EDDI on the MP servers between 07:00 and 16:00 UTC: http://foxtrot.mgras.net/bitmap/FGFS/LinuxTag-2009_33.png Feel free to join us there for some serious flying well, at least we're trying to educate our guests pilots to behave accordingly ;-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Can I come? I mean, on MP ;) 2009/6/24, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net: Hi, just a little reminder for those who missed the original announcement: The usual crowd is presenting FlightGear on the LinuxTag expo these days (http://www.linuxtag.org/). Typically we are around EDDF or EDDI on the MP servers between 07:00 and 16:00 UTC: http://foxtrot.mgras.net/bitmap/FGFS/LinuxTag-2009_33.png Feel free to join us there for some serious flying well, at least we're trying to educate our guests pilots to behave accordingly ;-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.netwrote: Would you really like to have yet another discussion about your style of managing the FlightGear web site ? I'm happy to have open and civil discussions, but that doesn't look like the direction you are pointed. Here it is plain and simple: I'm happy to post events to the web site, that's what it's there for. However, I can't post stuff I don't know about, and I'm pretty busy, so I can't spend my days trolling the forums and IRC and the mailing lists to glean things out based on arbitrary threads of conversation that might occur once in a while. So I depend on people sending me specific information about specific events to post. Just because something was discussed somewhere at some random time does not mean I'll automatically notice it, research it, and figure out all the important information and details. I need someone to send me all that so I can post it. Unfortunately magic does not happen on it's own. We all need to work together and help each other out. Hey, let's keep this positive. If you or someone else wants to send me something on Linux Tag that I can post, I'd love to do it. If you want to piss and moan and play victim and not be helpful to prove some point, let's please not do that. Thanks! Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo, June 24 - 27
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Alex Perry alex.pe...@ieee.org wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: There is still certainly an events section on the main front page of the FlightGear web site, but lacking any future events, it only contains a link to a google calendar intended to list upcoming MP events. You might want to add a bunch of developers and users into the list of people permitted to add items to the calendar. That will encourage it to be blank less ... I do this through the google calendar service, so if there's a way I can offer access to other google calendar users to just this one calendar, then sure, happy to do that. If there's are folks out there that have google accounts and want to see if I can figure out how to add you, just shoot me an email and we can give it a try. Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Hi Curt, However, I can't post stuff I don't know about, and I'm pretty busy, so I can't spend my days trolling the forums and IRC and the mailing lists to glean things out based on arbitrary threads of conversation that might occur once in a while. So I depend on people sending me specific information about specific events to post. Just because something was discussed somewhere at some random time does not mean I'll automatically notice it, research it, and figure out all the important information and details. I need someone to send me all that so I can post it. Unfortunately magic does not happen on it's own. We all need to work together and help each other out. We already all know that you haven't much time for all this- so all what Martin and David want is having access to this specific part of flightgear.org. So they can feed the informations and details themself without asking you to do it everytime! Kind regards HHS -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de wrote: We already all know that you haven't much time for all this- so all what Martin and David want is having access to this specific part of flightgear.org. So they can feed the informations and details themself without asking you to do it everytime! For those that haven't stumbled across it, the entire web source tree is available via cvs check out as just another module ... source, data, www, ... http://cvs.flightgear.org/viewvc/www/ So Martin and other developers can check out a local copy and make changes and then commit them back to the cvs repository. I know Martin has done a little of this in the past. This doesn't cause the changes to automatically make it to the actual web server though. I don't have a good way to grant actual physical access to the web server (it's a commercial service so access to the web account has paypal and credit card and other personal information implications that I'm not going to share.) So the deal is that anyone with developer cvs access can check out a copy of the web source tree, make updates, and then commit them back to the repository. CVS access is provided with the assumption that our developers will act in good faith, just like with source code and documentation, and so far we haven't had many problems. Once the changes are commited to cvs, the developer has to notify me so that I can run a cvs update locally and then push the changes up to the web server. I hope this isn't too unreasonable for most people. I could publish the web server account name and password, but then I suspect there wouldn't be much FlightGear content on our web page most of the time ... and I don't know if they could empty my paypal account and spend into my bank account, but certainly I could end up purchasing a lot of new domain names and services that I probably wouldn't have otherwise picked up myself. :-) Best regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Hi, This doesn't cause the changes to automatically make it to the actual web server though. ... I don't have a good way to grant actual physical access to the web server (it's a commercial service so access to the web account has paypal and credit card and other personal information implications that I'm not going to share.) I could publish the web server account name and password, but then I suspect there wouldn't be much FlightGear content on our web page most of the time ... and I don't know if they could empty my paypal account and spend into my bank account, but certainly I could end up purchasing a lot of new domain names and services that I probably wouldn't have otherwise picked up myself. :-) That's sure that you don't want to share this informations. But as an example on my homepage, I have my own password and username for ftp-upload, and If my homepage would be the official FGFS-homepage, I could share this password to trustworthy developers and maintainer here as Martin and others are without sharing this sensible datas like bank account and etc. I see that it seems not to be possible on flightgear.org. But for the project FGFS a better homepage would be very recommended! In the forum I noticed that people have really bad issues to find certain things on the homepage, and all the advertisement make FlightGear-project doesn't look professionell. A Content Manage System could help with the issues on the calender, and giving access to other developers to certain parts of the homepage,so it would be much easier for you to maintain flightgear.org. Do you get what I meant? Best Regards HHS -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: But as an example on my homepage, I have my own password and username for ftp-upload, and If my homepage would be the official FGFS-homepage, I could share this password to trustworthy developers and maintainer here as Martin and others ... I'm sure there are many ways to work things out. But one of the nice things about the current system is that all developer contributions are managed and tracked through our version control system before they get pushed up to the web server. If everyone had direct access, some similar system would still need to be setup so that changes don't step on each other. And I really like having changes tracked through CVS. I avoid remote editing of the web content ... most services don't even allow that and it's often slow behind my dsl connnection, but I'm lucky and have arranged ssh access to the web tree because the service provider (frozenwebhost.com) is a friend of the FlightGear project so I can go physically manipulate things if I need to. We get special attention from the provider, so I feel this is a pretty good place to host our site. And I'm not afraid to put in a plug for frozenwebhost.com at the same time ... I've been real happy with their service. There's been a couple minor glitches over the years, but it's not like when google goes off line and half the world heads to the pub because there's nothing else you can actually accomplish. In the forum I noticed that people have really bad issues to find certain things on the homepage, The web site has undergone reconstruction and reorganization a few times over the years. It's a lot better than when it first started out. That said, of course things could be improved. I'm not able to watch the forum closely. What things were discussed there that are hard to find? I don't mean to complain, but people within the FlightGear community communicate in a large variety of ways, and many issues are discussed. I have to work for a living so I can't sit on IRC all day, I can't read every forum posting, and I'm lucky to at least try to skim all the dev list traffic and pick out what I understand or what I think applies to or affects me. There seems to be a perception that if someone has complained about something, or mentioned something, or voiced an issue or concern ... and has done that somewhere and at some point in the history of the universe, then I should be aware of it, and should have addressed it already ... Unfortunately, I'm well aware of my physical and mental and time limits because I seem to be hitting up against them every day. So if there are situations where there are problems or concerns, and I haven't provided a mechanism for someone to be able to address this, then that's certainly something where I'm fair game for criticism. However, I seem to periodically take heat for issues that have never been brought to my attention because apparently there is a general impression that I'm able to read and remember every comment in every flightgear communication forum. That's simply not the case, so if something hasn't been brought to my personal attention, I don't feel it's tremendously fair to complain that I haven't addressed the issue. I can't deal with things I don't know about. And even when issues are brought to my attention ... we are all volunteers here ... I take time out of my paying work I'm a consultant and have to log my individual working hours on the various projects I get paid for. So when I take time out of my day for FlightGear activities (as I often do and am doing right now) that cuts into my monthly income. It's not like I'm a salaried employee that can sluff a few minutes here and there for non-work activities. So when I put too much time into FlightGear, I really see the effects on my bank account. I'm not complaining, I love being involved in the FilghtGear project. I'm just pointing out that I continue to invest a huge amount of my personal time into the project often at my own personal expense. So if something is brought to my attention and still isn't addressed in a timely manner, I'd simply request the same amount of patience you would give to yourself or any other volunteer FlightGear developer. I think we all (including some of the more negatively vocal people on this list) have projects that haven't gotten done as fast as we hoped they would, and I bet we all have unfinished work and work we've had to set aside when personal and job priorities flare up and have to take precidence. and all the advertisement make FlightGear-project doesn't look professionel. Quick word on this subject ... the revenue helps maintain the site, pay for domain names, etc. It's a balance of factors, but I prefer hosting our web site with a professional service. That doesn't mean they are always perfect, but if we piggy back off people's personal web sites or personal servers, there's more of a chance that these could
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: And for those people, that's ok if that's how you want to approach life, I'm a big boy, and all my clothes are at least 50% asbestos :-) Maybe I should say that all my remaining clothes have a large asbestos content, the articles that do not contain fire protection are quickly scorched away. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Hi All, I think also that it is not wise to let only one person have the sole access to the flightgear website and domain registration. It might be possible that that sole person comes to die or becomes incapable to further handle (shit happens) and so the website and the name are blocked. Also the advertisements are not nice. I have adblock and most likely all other flightgear freaks. I wonder what all those empty blocks were. Thanks to all who develop it. I have flown a lot of hours and even read all the FAA courses. And want to get on with real soaring. I'm no coder, but I can do some website things. Greetings all the best ArthurX On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de wrote: Hi, This doesn't cause the changes to automatically make it to the actual web server though. ... I don't have a good way to grant actual physical access to the web server (it's a commercial service so access to the web account has paypal and credit card and other personal information implications that I'm not going to share.) I could publish the web server account name and password, but then I suspect there wouldn't be much FlightGear content on our web page most of the time ... and I don't know if they could empty my paypal account and spend into my bank account, but certainly I could end up purchasing a lot of new domain names and services that I probably wouldn't have otherwise picked up myself. :-) That's sure that you don't want to share this informations. But as an example on my homepage, I have my own password and username for ftp-upload, and If my homepage would be the official FGFS-homepage, I could share this password to trustworthy developers and maintainer here as Martin and others are without sharing this sensible datas like bank account and etc. I see that it seems not to be possible on flightgear.org. But for the project FGFS a better homepage would be very recommended! In the forum I noticed that people have really bad issues to find certain things on the homepage, and all the advertisement make FlightGear-project doesn't look professionell. A Content Manage System could help with the issues on the calender, and giving access to other developers to certain parts of the homepage,so it would be much easier for you to maintain flightgear.org. Do you get what I meant? Best Regards HHS -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- http://www.arthurx.org -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Curtis Olson wrote: And even when issues are brought to my attention ... we are all volunteers here ... I take time out of my paying work I'm a consultant and have to log my individual working hours on the various projects I get paid for. So when I take time out of my day for FlightGear activities [...] Oh man, whenever the discussion gets to FlightGear's organizational bottleneck (Curt), we almost always read the same whining with just little variation. Ah, you have to take time out of your paying work, you have to log your individual working hours ? Welcome to real life. Curt, the point is (and has for quite a few years already) that you a) reserve to control too many aspects of the project, even though you're unable to catch up with the project's momentum because you b) have too little time. If b) doesn't change, then you should seriously take into account that a) is probably not the best way to head for. And there's also c) in that you have the habit of disrespecting hints about things developing into the 'wrong' (TM) direction as long as they're being brought to you in a polite manner - probably also because of b), I don't know - and if people are getting a bit more 'verbose' because they don't feel like recieving disrespect, then you're blaming them for not behaving civilian. There's a lot to improve. Sharing some responsibility with those who are doing most of the work might be a good start. What do you mean by a content mangement system? Version control? Wiki? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Content_Management_System Regard, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Curtis Olson wrote: [...] But at some point, with some people, it starts to seem like they are more interested in arguing and trotting out all their perpetual sore spots than finding ways to make the system work. Please explain, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Martin Spott wrote: Oh man, whenever the discussion gets to FlightGear's organizational bottleneck (Curt), we almost always read the same whining with just little variation. Hehe, it sounds like we both have each other on tape with the same respective whining several times. Are you sure we weren't married in some former life? :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Curtis Olson wrote: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Martin Spott wrote: Oh man, whenever the discussion gets to FlightGear's organizational bottleneck (Curt), we almost always read the same whining with just little variation. Hehe, it sounds like we both have each other on tape with the same respective whining several times. Not here. BTW, a few postings earlier you wrote: I'm happy to have open and civil discussions, [...]. Did you read past the phrase you've been citing above ? If so, please go ahead and let us have a civil discussion, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.netwrote: Curtis Olson wrote: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Martin Spott wrote: Oh man, whenever the discussion gets to FlightGear's organizational bottleneck (Curt), we almost always read the same whining with just little variation. Hehe, it sounds like we both have each other on tape with the same respective whining several times. Not here. BTW, a few postings earlier you wrote: I'm happy to have open and civil discussions, [...]. Did you read past the phrase you've been citing above ? If so, please go ahead and let us have a civil discussion, Let's start a new thread for that, this thread is going no where fast. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
forces you to read all postings etc. - that are others already doing. And as I know some things due to their experiences was discussed much earlier- without any changes. Quick word on this subject ... the revenue helps maintain the site, pay for domain names, etc. It's a balance of factors, but I prefer hosting our web site with a professional service. That doesn't mean they are always perfect, but if we piggy back off people's personal web sites or personal servers, there's more of a chance that these could go offline with zero warning. Maybe I'm getting old, but I've seen that happen a number of times now, and have been on the scrambling end of trying to pull something together again when the orginal content is no longer available, the person can't be contacted, etc. There are always single points of failure ... even now. If a hoster goes offline without any warning, without having ever any contact and support- then it wasn't professional! I had myself that issue once a time, but was warned two month before the hoster went offline. Life on the web is fast, and noone can say if this will not happen to frozenwebhost.org too. I understand that advertisement is a very comfortable way to get money and helps paying the page. But do we really need 2/3 of the place for advertisement? Advertisement for commercial, unfree sims, which why we began 12 years ago to develope a free, OpenSopurce sim? And aren't there maybe other ways to get money for the domain names etc.? Did you thought about looking for a sponsor? At least: But at some point, with some people, it starts to seem like they are more interested in arguing and trotting out all their perpetual sore spots than finding ways to make the system work. And for those people, that's ok if that's how you want to approach life, I'm a big boy, and all my clothes are at least 50% asbestos :-) but it's certainly not productive and motivational if your end goal is to accomplish something useful. I don't see that- there was a lot of ideas how to make the system work in the past. But it was simply ignored. To be clear: noone wants that you have to do changes allone without help. But all what they want is to say: yes, we can! ;-) I'm looking for your answer Kind regards Heiko still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html Von: Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com An: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Gesendet: Freitag, den 12. Juni 2009, 23:23:49 Uhr Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo, On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: But as an example on my homepage, I have my own password and username for ftp-upload, and If my homepage would be the official FGFS-homepage, I could share this password to trustworthy developers and maintainer here as Martin and others ... I'm sure there are many ways to work things out. But one of the nice things about the current system is that all developer contributions are managed and tracked through our version control system before they get pushed up to the web server. If everyone had direct access, some similar system would still need to be setup so that changes don't step on each other. And I really like having changes tracked through CVS. I avoid remote editing of the web content ... most services don't even allow that and it's often slow behind my dsl connnection, but I'm lucky and have arranged ssh access to the web tree because the service provider (frozenwebhost.com) is a friend of the FlightGear project so I can go physically manipulate things if I need to. We get special attention from the provider, so I feel this is a pretty good place to host our site. And I'm not afraid to put in a plug for frozenwebhost.com at the same time ... I've been real happy with their service. There's been a couple minor glitches over the years, but it's not like when google goes off line and half the world heads to the pub because there's nothing else you can actually accomplish. In the forum I noticed that people have really bad issues to find certain things on the homepage, The web site has undergone reconstruction and reorganization a few times over the years. It's a lot better than when it first started out. That said, of course things could be improved. I'm not able to watch the forum closely. What things were discussed there that are hard to find? I don't mean to complain, but people within the FlightGear community communicate in a large variety of ways, and many issues are discussed. I have to work for a living so I can't sit on IRC all day, I can't read every forum posting, and I'm lucky to at least try to skim all the dev list traffic and pick out what I understand or what I think applies to or affects me. There seems to be a perception that if someone has complained about
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
://de.openoffice.org/ They look all like a professional site, uptodate and attractive! flightgear.org isn't uptodate in design and possibility. I don't mean to complain, but people within the FlightGear community communicate in a large variety of ways, and many issues are discussed. I have to work for a living so I can't sit on IRC all day, I can't read every forum posting, and I'm lucky to at least try to skim all the dev list traffic and pick out what I understand or what I think applies to or affects me. Unfortunately, I'm well aware of my physical and mental and time limits because I seem to be hitting up against them every day. Everyone has limits- so I wonder why you are all doing it alone? Noone forces you to read all postings etc. - that are others already doing. And as I know some things due to their experiences was discussed much earlier- without any changes. Quick word on this subject ... the revenue helps maintain the site, pay for domain names, etc. It's a balance of factors, but I prefer hosting our web site with a professional service. That doesn't mean they are always perfect, but if we piggy back off people's personal web sites or personal servers, there's more of a chance that these could go offline with zero warning. Maybe I'm getting old, but I've seen that happen a number of times now, and have been on the scrambling end of trying to pull something together again when the orginal content is no longer available, the person can't be contacted, etc. There are always single points of failure ... even now. If a hoster goes offline without any warning, without having ever any contact and support- then it wasn't professional! I had myself that issue once a time, but was warned two month before the hoster went offline. Life on the web is fast, and noone can say if this will not happen to frozenwebhost.org too. I understand that advertisement is a very comfortable way to get money and helps paying the page. But do we really need 2/3 of the place for advertisement? Advertisement for commercial, unfree sims, which why we began 12 years ago to develope a free, OpenSopurce sim? And aren't there maybe other ways to get money for the domain names etc.? Did you thought about looking for a sponsor? At least: But at some point, with some people, it starts to seem like they are more interested in arguing and trotting out all their perpetual sore spots than finding ways to make the system work. And for those people, that's ok if that's how you want to approach life, I'm a big boy, and all my clothes are at least 50% asbestos :-) but it's certainly not productive and motivational if your end goal is to accomplish something useful. I don't see that- there was a lot of ideas how to make the system work in the past. But it was simply ignored. To be clear: noone wants that you have to do changes allone without help. But all what they want is to say: yes, we can! ;-) I'm looking for your answer Kind regards Heiko still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html -- *Von:* Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com *An:* FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net *Gesendet:* Freitag, den 12. Juni 2009, 23:23:49 Uhr *Betreff:* Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo, On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: But as an example on my homepage, I have my own password and username for ftp-upload, and If my homepage would be the official FGFS-homepage, I could share this password to trustworthy developers and maintainer here as Martin and others ... I'm sure there are many ways to work things out. But one of the nice things about the current system is that all developer contributions are managed and tracked through our version control system before they get pushed up to the web server. If everyone had direct access, some similar system would still need to be setup so that changes don't step on each other. And I really like having changes tracked through CVS. I avoid remote editing of the web content ... most services don't even allow that and it's often slow behind my dsl connnection, but I'm lucky and have arranged ssh access to the web tree because the service provider ( frozenwebhost.com) is a friend of the FlightGear project so I can go physically manipulate things if I need to. We get special attention from the provider, so I feel this is a pretty good place to host our site. And I'm not afraid to put in a plug for frozenwebhost.com at the same time ... I've been real happy with their service. There's been a couple minor glitches over the years, but it's not like when google goes off line and half the world heads to the pub because there's nothing else you can actually accomplish. In the forum I noticed that people have really bad issues to find certain
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
-Homepage is www.blender.org: -clear menubar, visible on the first glance at the top -a much better organisation of the content. The link to the downloads is visible immediately -news and announcements are not small- all important things are visible immediately Or have a look into yafaray.org: well organized, catch up the eyes and the important things aren't hidden. or the german homepage of OpenOffice! http://de.openoffice.org/ They look all like a professional site, uptodate and attractive! flightgear.org isn't uptodate in design and possibility. I don't mean to complain, but people within the FlightGear community communicate in a large variety of ways, and many issues are discussed. I have to work for a living so I can't sit on IRC all day, I can't read every forum posting, and I'm lucky to at least try to skim all the dev list traffic and pick out what I understand or what I think applies to or affects me. Unfortunately, I'm well aware of my physical and mental and time limits because I seem to be hitting up against them every day. Everyone has limits- so I wonder why you are all doing it alone? Noone forces you to read all postings etc. - that are others already doing. And as I know some things due to their experiences was discussed much earlier- without any changes. Quick word on this subject ... the revenue helps maintain the site, pay for domain names, etc. It's a balance of factors, but I prefer hosting our web site with a professional service. That doesn't mean they are always perfect, but if we piggy back off people's personal web sites or personal servers, there's more of a chance that these could go offline with zero warning. Maybe I'm getting old, but I've seen that happen a number of times now, and have been on the scrambling end of trying to pull something together again when the orginal content is no longer available, the person can't be contacted, etc. There are always single points of failure ... even now. If a hoster goes offline without any warning, without having ever any contact and support- then it wasn't professional! I had myself that issue once a time, but was warned two month before the hoster went offline. Life on the web is fast, and noone can say if this will not happen to frozenwebhost.org too. I understand that advertisement is a very comfortable way to get money and helps paying the page. But do we really need 2/3 of the place for advertisement? Advertisement for commercial, unfree sims, which why we began 12 years ago to develope a free, OpenSopurce sim? And aren't there maybe other ways to get money for the domain names etc.? Did you thought about looking for a sponsor? At least: But at some point, with some people, it starts to seem like they are more interested in arguing and trotting out all their perpetual sore spots than finding ways to make the system work. And for those people, that's ok if that's how you want to approach life, I'm a big boy, and all my clothes are at least 50% asbestos :-) but it's certainly not productive and motivational if your end goal is to accomplish something useful. I don't see that- there was a lot of ideas how to make the system work in the past. But it was simply ignored. To be clear: noone wants that you have to do changes allone without help. But all what they want is to say: yes, we can! ;-) I'm looking for your answer Kind regards Heiko still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html Von: Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com An: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Gesendet: Freitag, den 12. Juni 2009, 23:23:49 Uhr Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo, On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: But as an example on my homepage, I have my own password and username for ftp-upload, and If my homepage would be the official FGFS-homepage, I could share this password to trustworthy developers and maintainer here as Martin and others ... I'm sure there are many ways to work things out. But one of the nice things about the current system is that all developer contributions are managed and tracked through our version control system before they get pushed up to the web server. If everyone had direct access, some similar system would still need to be setup so that changes don't step on each other. And I really like having changes tracked through CVS. I avoid remote editing of the web content ... most services don't even allow that and it's often slow behind my dsl connnection, but I'm lucky and have arranged ssh access to the web tree because the service provider (frozenwebhost.com) is a friend of the FlightGear project so I can go physically manipulate things if I need to. We get special attention from the provider, so I feel this is a pretty good place to host our site. And I'm not afraid to put
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de wrote: Lufthansa has aircraft that allows them to fly from A to B. It's certainly not perfect and doesn't have every feature ever imagined, it may not meet every pilots preferences and desires, but it is functional and workable if the pilots choose to use it: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa-(Berlin-Stiftung)/Junkers-Ju-52-3mg8e/1061495/L/http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa-%28Berlin-Stiftung%29/Junkers-Ju-52-3mg8e/1061495/L/ That's actually a really cool picture! The reflection of the modern jet in the windows in the background. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo, June 24 - 27
Hey Martin, Feel free to submit an event description to me. Let me humbly suggest that that should be step #1, and the step #2 could be to complain if it isn't added. There is still certainly an events section on the main front page of the FlightGear web site, but lacking any future events, it only contains a link to a google calendar intended to list upcoming MP events. But lacking any event submissions, these areas remain largely blank. Thus, I eagerly await your event submissions as well as the event submissions of anyone else, and am slightly disappointed to see a complaint first before anything else. Best regards, Curt. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.netwrote: Hi together, earlier revisions of the FlightGear web page had a feature to mention upcoming events a) as a small note on the main page (even though, errm, it's been mostly pushed aside into some remote corner by the omnipresent advertising ) and b) on a related 'events.html' page to carry more detailed information. Sadly, this feature seems to have vanished some time ago which is why I'd like to advertize the upcoming presentation of FlightGear at the LinuxTag expo with a rough sketch of the former 'events' page: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/events.html Please spread the information to whichever place you think is appropriate and feel invited to add a nicer look to the page ;-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo,
Hi Curt, Curtis Olson wrote: Feel free to submit an event description to me. Let me humbly suggest that that should be step #1, and the step #2 could be to complain if it isn't added. http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg21405.html Thus, I eagerly await your event submissions as well as the event submissions of anyone else, and am slightly disappointed to see a complaint first before anything else. Would you really like to have yet another discussion about your style of managing the FlightGear web site ? Kind regards, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear presentation on the LinuxTag expo, June 24 - 27
Curtis Olson wrote: There is still certainly an events section on the main front page of the FlightGear web site, but lacking any future events, it only contains a link to a google calendar intended to list upcoming MP events. You might want to add a bunch of developers and users into the list of people permitted to add items to the calendar. That will encourage it to be blank less ... -- Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
