Re: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch
I once spent an entire evening (with two other people) trying to come up with a good working definition of kitsch. The conclusion we arrived at was overwrought, sentimental, and (generally) inexpensive. By our definition, particularly since there are lawyers among you (there goes inexpensive!), I very much doubt that you're kitsch. At least not in New Jersey, anyway. Luv, BG From: secret fluxus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/07/01 Thu PM 03:40:42 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch Dear Madawg, Could you please define what you mean by kitsch? We can't tell you if we feel we are doing kitsch until we know what you mean by kitsch. Sincerely, Secret Fluxus Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:30:40 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: question for secret fluxus do you feel that what you are doing is Kitsch? If not, why not? Madawg _ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Re: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch
In a message dated 7/2/04 2:44:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The conclusion we arrived at was "overwrought, sentimental, and (generally) inexpensive." By our definition, particularly since there are lawyers among you (there goes inexpensive!), I very much doubt that you're kitsch. gee do you think that fluxlist could qualify as kitsch?? Dawg
FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch
Dear Madawg, Could you please define what you mean by kitsch? We can't tell you if we feel we are doing kitsch until we know what you mean by kitsch. Sincerely, Secret Fluxus Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:30:40 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: question for secret fluxus do you feel that what you are doing is Kitsch? If not, why not? Madawg _ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Re: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch
Well, I think Kitsch is debated as to its exact meaning. As I understand it it is an artform that looks back to the past. Kitsch was born in the early days of the industrial revolution . Easel painting that reflected a sense of doom or the sublime. Sentimentilizing is associated with Kitsch in the way that anything far back enough in the past gets sentimentilized. Perhaps other fluxlisters can offer more.
RE: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch
Dear Friends: the best way to define the word is to consult the dictionary as a starting point certainly some aspects of kitsch can be what one might term the entropy of the sublime--or --its deteroraition--kitsch is usally a derogative tern--ceratinly associated with asp[ects of thesentimental that are borderingon the "distasteful"--yet do evoke passionate feelings in some--while repulsion in others- there's aloo camp--but i don't think secret fluxus is either camp or kitsch-- this is why i wondered if the aspect of mimicry is not a camouflage, thus attaineing to secret-hood- or if the ritual reenactment of a historical one-time-only event--is not an attempt as it were to 'contact the gods" via a sort of cathartic identification by means of mimicry---"acting out"--yet under strict controls-- or, on the camp theme--there is the impersonation aspect--but i don't think secret fluxus is into this maybe more like textbook illustrations? or like those reenactments one finds at historical villages?-- it does--have to do with history, at the core of it--"getting it right"-- but yes consult ye dictionary!-- "for now we see, as through a glass darkly"--david-bc From: "secret fluxus" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 20:40:42 +0100 Dear Madawg, Could you please define what you mean by kitsch? We can't tell you if we feel we are doing kitsch until we know what you mean by kitsch. Sincerely, Secret Fluxus Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:30:40 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: question for secret fluxus do you feel that what you are doing is Kitsch? If not, why not? Madawg _ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups now 2 months FREE!
Re: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch
In a message dated 7/1/04 4:33:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: kitsch is usally a derogative tern--ceratinly associated with asp[ects of thesentimental that are borderingon the "distasteful"--yet do evoke passionate feelings in some--while repulsion in others- I think some artists such as Odd Nerdrum seek to raise the bar or maybe go back to the sublime mode of Kitsch before it was considred derogative. But that certainly is the modern definition isnt it?
Re: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch
Title: Re: FLUXLIST: Please define kitsch Hi there! ... NB: Rays at his computer and this is his CONSIDEREDresponse Now perhaps Im unusual because I dont think kitsch and FLUXUS are incompatible or even mutually exclusive to wit Thomas Kinkade. Now Tom is, arguably, both kitsch and FLUXUS in a contemporary kind of context and his work is especially so: when you/he make(s) jigsaws out of his paintings a FLUXUSdevotee post them to the edge of the world by CHANCE some customs people mix and shuffle the pieces AND from 3 separate puzzles of different (ascending!) complexity AND pretend that nothing has happened and that it wasnt their fault when you hunt them down AND invoke 9.11 and then claim that it was for the good of the nation anyway (USA?, OZ?) SAVE THE EDGE!!! Theres a part of me that feels that John Cage would have approved and thus would happily admit Tom into the FLUXUSclub. Now some would argue that Madawg did (was responsible for!?) all of that but Ill contest that. Madawg stopped being FLUXUS when he wrapped Kinkades product in his MAILart albeit that he simultaneously assigned a FLUXUSkitsch value to Kinkades product . There are tensions in FLUXUS and kitsch that are not too dissimilar and if Secret Fluxus are indeed closet kitschists I for one do not think theyve got a thing to worry about and even less if they were to come out of their closet. I promise not to be unkind and also to be very understanding. You see my brother was a closet redneck gay person, and I forgave him when owned up, so Ive got a track record. Ray _from way out on the edge eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (when the servers up) On 2/7/04 5:40 AM, secret fluxus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Madawg, Could you please define what you mean by kitsch? We can't tell you if we feel we are doing kitsch until we know what you mean by kitsch. Sincerely, Secret Fluxus Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:30:40 EDT From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: question for secret fluxus do you feel that what you are doing is Kitsch? If not, why not? Madawg _ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
