Re: another nose for the grindstone
Mark, just let me know when you'll start to work on it. Clay, sorry for not making clear that i needed the maintenance code for reference. Jeremias, thanks for the pointer i'm not sure about the following. please correct me if i'm wrong: the (currently named) AWTRenderer allows 3 different kinds of output 1) GUI-application 2) a java Image (containing all areas represented as Graphics2D's) 3) a printed document through AWTPrintRenderer, or is it the commandline options to start the differents output are 1) -awt 2) 3) -print i started to investigate the rendering system. the AbstractRenderer is well designed and already implementing a lot of stuff, so that should go allright for the AWTRenderer. thanks, renaud On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:48:28 +0100, Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clay, he knows that. I told him to use the maintenance branch code as a reference for bringing back the AWT Renderer in CVS HEAD. Renaud and I met last Friday at lots.ch. So, Renaud, please use the code found under the fop-0_20_2-maintain branch for reference. And happy hacking! On 22.02.2005 05:38:58 The Web Maestro wrote: On Feb 21, 2005, at 4:55 PM, Renaud Richardet wrote: bonjour fop-devs Salut! Bienvenue! i would like to work on the awt renderer. Mark (or someone else) , are you working on it? i checked out the code from FOP 0.20.5. is it the latest maintenance version? thanks, renaud Actually, the fop-0.20.5 code is merely for reference. All FOP development has moved away from the fop-0.20-5 branch (fop-0_20-maintain OR 'maintenance' branch) in favor of the re-design branch (HEAD). This was done because the 'maintenance' branch had significant problems that were not easily resolvable. The re-design branch occurred because of problems in implementing the XSL0FO 1.0 spec--specifically with the 'keeps' I believe. In any case, if you wish to contribute to FOP development, please check out the HEAD branch. You may look to fop-0.20.5 for reference, but any work you do on that branch will probably not be integrated into FOP 1.0. Jeremias Maerki -- renaud.richardet (at) gmail (dot) com +41 78 675 9501 www.oslutions.com
Re: another nose for the grindstone
On 22.02.2005 12:43:56 Renaud Richardet wrote: Mark, just let me know when you'll start to work on it. Clay, sorry for not making clear that i needed the maintenance code for reference. Jeremias, thanks for the pointer i'm not sure about the following. please correct me if i'm wrong: the (currently named) AWTRenderer allows 3 different kinds of output 1) GUI-application or only a single window or just a part of a window. 2) a java Image (containing all areas represented as Graphics2D's) Not sure what you mean. Oleg Tkachenko wrote an extension of the AWT Renderer that paints the area tree to a single bitmap (per page) through the Graphics2D interface. This is something I like to see integrated directly into the render.java2d interface. 3) a printed document through AWTPrintRenderer, or is it Right. That's where the Printable interface comes into play. the commandline options to start the differents output are Don't make a 1:1 association between the capabilities of the command line and all the possible use cases of the Java2D renderer. 1) -awt That displays the example preview window in the render.awt.viewer package. 2) With the bitmap output support added, this will be -jpg and -tiff and -png etc. 3) -print That kicks the AWTPrintRenderer. i started to investigate the rendering system. the AbstractRenderer is well designed and already implementing a lot of stuff, so that should go allright for the AWTRenderer. Yes, try to use as much as possible from the AbstractRenderer to avoid duplicate code. If you see possibilities for consolidating functionality between the PDF and Java2D renderer, then please tell us. If I don't get any objections by tomorrow morning (CET) I'm going to rename the AWTRenderer to Java2DRenderer so you can work on the real thing. Another thing: If you plan to regularly start to contribute to FOP or simply to be on the safe side because you're not just going to contribute a small bugfix only, it might be good if you sent a signed ICLA (Individual Contributor License Agreement) to the secretary of the ASF. See here for a text and PDF version of the ICLA: http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf That's not the same as commit rights or committership, but we might get to that in time. :-) Jeremias Maerki
Re: another nose for the grindstone
bonjour fop-devs i would like to work on the awt renderer. Mark (or someone else) , are you working on it? i checked out the code from FOP 0.20.5. is it the latest maintenance version? thanks, renaud On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:54:43 +0100, Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark We'd love to have you with us. On 17.01.2005 05:18:23 Mark Brucks wrote: I'd like to join the fop development group. I've been an xsl/fop user for the last year or so (generating PDF), but several new projects I'm proposing have a need for a robust and complete awt renderer, and I'd like to devote some time to ensuring this happens. I have a little bit of time in the near term to commit to the project, and I hope much more time starting in the April time frame. I'd like to use the next 2 months to come up to speed, then dive in to serious work when more time is available. The AWT renderer is currently missing in CVS HEAD. It would be great if someone took up that task. To build that renderer you can look at the code from the maintenance branch (or FOP 0.20.5) for reference. Our reference renderer in CVS HEAD is the PDF renderer (like before). Personally, I'd rather call it Java2D renderer, not AWT renderer, because Java2D is essentially the name of the API you code against. AWT is, as the name says, a windowing toolkit, not primarily a graphics API. I need some advice. I've learned enough about xsl and fop to get my job done, but there are lots of holes in my knowledge base. I'd like to spend a little bit of time carefully reading the XSL spec. Should I read the XSL V1.1 working draft (in anticipation of things to come), or should I stick with the V1.0 recommendation (which I assume is what the new version of fop will implement). The recommendation is still the main reference. Glen Mazza already started investigating the 1.1 WD (ex. bookmarks) and it might be helpful sometimes to consult the 1.1 WD because it seems to be somewhat more verbose. It's good to prepare for 1.1 but as long as it's in WD phase the focus should remain on the 1.0 Rec for the time being. Do the development and design documents that are available on-line relate to the root/trunk/redesign version, or do they still describe the maintenance branch? They refer to CVS HEAD. If they are not up-to-date, they should be updated. Is there a development schedule or a prioritized list of features to be implemented? A development schedule is always difficult in an all-volunteer project. I think it's pretty realistic now to target an initial release in late summer 2005. I'm currently working off this list: http://wiki.apache.org/xmlgraphics-fop/FOPWorkEstimates But this list isn't binding. You're free to choose what you like to work on. If you want to build the Java2D renderer, that's great. If you want to help with the layout engine, even better. If you start a task simply notify us what you're working on so we don't have duplicate effort. Is anybody else actively working on the awt rendered for the next release? No, not at the moment. Since this is my first foray into open-source development, any and all advice is welcome. The advice is simple: Choose something to work on, notify this list (if it's something bigger), start hacking and in the end send patches via Bugzilla. Of course, this is a bit simplistic but essentially this is all what you need to know for now. :-) If you have questions simply ask. We're happy to help you getting started. Jeremias Maerki
Re: another nose for the grindstone
Renaud et al I've had less time to devote to it than I thought, but I am working my way carefully through the spec (and trying to keep up with the posts to fop-dev). The bottom line is that I'm not actively working on the code yet - I hope to be by April. So, if you've got time now, you should pick what you want to work on, and I'll fill in where needed. Mark Brucks Renaud Richardet wrote: bonjour fop-devs i would like to work on the awt renderer. Mark (or someone else) , are you working on it? i checked out the code from FOP 0.20.5. is it the latest maintenance version? thanks, renaud On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:54:43 +0100, Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark We'd love to have you with us. On 17.01.2005 05:18:23 Mark Brucks wrote: I'd like to join the fop development group. I've been an xsl/fop user for the last year or so (generating PDF), but several new projects I'm proposing have a need for a robust and complete awt renderer, and I'd like to devote some time to ensuring this happens. I have a little bit of time in the near term to commit to the project, and I hope much more time starting in the April time frame. I'd like to use the next 2 months to come up to speed, then dive in to serious work when more time is available. The AWT renderer is currently missing in CVS HEAD. It would be great if someone took up that task. To build that renderer you can look at the code from the maintenance branch (or FOP 0.20.5) for reference. Our reference renderer in CVS HEAD is the PDF renderer (like before). Personally, I'd rather call it Java2D renderer, not AWT renderer, because Java2D is essentially the name of the API you code against. AWT is, as the name says, a windowing toolkit, not primarily a graphics API. I need some advice. I've learned enough about xsl and fop to get my job done, but there are lots of holes in my knowledge base. I'd like to spend a little bit of time carefully reading the XSL spec. Should I read the XSL V1.1 working draft (in anticipation of things to come), or should I stick with the V1.0 recommendation (which I assume is what the new version of fop will implement). The recommendation is still the main reference. Glen Mazza already started investigating the 1.1 WD (ex. bookmarks) and it might be helpful sometimes to consult the 1.1 WD because it seems to be somewhat more verbose. It's good to prepare for 1.1 but as long as it's in WD phase the focus should remain on the 1.0 Rec for the time being. Do the development and design documents that are available on-line relate to the root/trunk/redesign version, or do they still describe the maintenance branch? They refer to CVS HEAD. If they are not up-to-date, they should be updated. Is there a development schedule or a prioritized list of features to be implemented? A development schedule is always difficult in an all-volunteer project. I think it's pretty realistic now to target an initial release in late summer 2005. I'm currently working off this list: http://wiki.apache.org/xmlgraphics-fop/FOPWorkEstimates But this list isn't binding. You're free to choose what you like to work on. If you want to build the Java2D renderer, that's great. If you want to help with the layout engine, even better. If you start a task simply notify us what you're working on so we don't have duplicate effort. Is anybody else actively working on the awt rendered for the next release? No, not at the moment. Since this is my first foray into open-source development, any and all advice is welcome. The advice is simple: Choose something to work on, notify this list (if it's something bigger), start hacking and in the end send patches via Bugzilla. Of course, this is a bit simplistic but essentially this is all what you need to know for now. :-) If you have questions simply ask. We're happy to help you getting started. Jeremias Maerki
Re: another nose for the grindstone
On Feb 21, 2005, at 4:55 PM, Renaud Richardet wrote: bonjour fop-devs Salut! Bienvenue! i would like to work on the awt renderer. Mark (or someone else) , are you working on it? i checked out the code from FOP 0.20.5. is it the latest maintenance version? thanks, renaud Actually, the fop-0.20.5 code is merely for reference. All FOP development has moved away from the fop-0.20-5 branch (fop-0_20-maintain OR 'maintenance' branch) in favor of the re-design branch (HEAD). This was done because the 'maintenance' branch had significant problems that were not easily resolvable. The re-design branch occurred because of problems in implementing the XSL0FO 1.0 spec--specifically with the 'keeps' I believe. In any case, if you wish to contribute to FOP development, please check out the HEAD branch. You may look to fop-0.20.5 for reference, but any work you do on that branch will probably not be integrated into FOP 1.0. Cheers! Web Maestro Clay -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/ My religion is simple. My religion is kindness. - HH The 14th Dalai Lama of Tibet
Re: another nose for the grindstone
Clay, he knows that. I told him to use the maintenance branch code as a reference for bringing back the AWT Renderer in CVS HEAD. Renaud and I met last Friday at lots.ch. So, Renaud, please use the code found under the fop-0_20_2-maintain branch for reference. And happy hacking! On 22.02.2005 05:38:58 The Web Maestro wrote: On Feb 21, 2005, at 4:55 PM, Renaud Richardet wrote: bonjour fop-devs Salut! Bienvenue! i would like to work on the awt renderer. Mark (or someone else) , are you working on it? i checked out the code from FOP 0.20.5. is it the latest maintenance version? thanks, renaud Actually, the fop-0.20.5 code is merely for reference. All FOP development has moved away from the fop-0.20-5 branch (fop-0_20-maintain OR 'maintenance' branch) in favor of the re-design branch (HEAD). This was done because the 'maintenance' branch had significant problems that were not easily resolvable. The re-design branch occurred because of problems in implementing the XSL0FO 1.0 spec--specifically with the 'keeps' I believe. In any case, if you wish to contribute to FOP development, please check out the HEAD branch. You may look to fop-0.20.5 for reference, but any work you do on that branch will probably not be integrated into FOP 1.0. Jeremias Maerki
Re: another nose for the grindstone
Hi Mark We'd love to have you with us. On 17.01.2005 05:18:23 Mark Brucks wrote: I'd like to join the fop development group. I've been an xsl/fop user for the last year or so (generating PDF), but several new projects I'm proposing have a need for a robust and complete awt renderer, and I'd like to devote some time to ensuring this happens. I have a little bit of time in the near term to commit to the project, and I hope much more time starting in the April time frame. I'd like to use the next 2 months to come up to speed, then dive in to serious work when more time is available. The AWT renderer is currently missing in CVS HEAD. It would be great if someone took up that task. To build that renderer you can look at the code from the maintenance branch (or FOP 0.20.5) for reference. Our reference renderer in CVS HEAD is the PDF renderer (like before). Personally, I'd rather call it Java2D renderer, not AWT renderer, because Java2D is essentially the name of the API you code against. AWT is, as the name says, a windowing toolkit, not primarily a graphics API. I need some advice. I've learned enough about xsl and fop to get my job done, but there are lots of holes in my knowledge base. I'd like to spend a little bit of time carefully reading the XSL spec. Should I read the XSL V1.1 working draft (in anticipation of things to come), or should I stick with the V1.0 recommendation (which I assume is what the new version of fop will implement). The recommendation is still the main reference. Glen Mazza already started investigating the 1.1 WD (ex. bookmarks) and it might be helpful sometimes to consult the 1.1 WD because it seems to be somewhat more verbose. It's good to prepare for 1.1 but as long as it's in WD phase the focus should remain on the 1.0 Rec for the time being. Do the development and design documents that are available on-line relate to the root/trunk/redesign version, or do they still describe the maintenance branch? They refer to CVS HEAD. If they are not up-to-date, they should be updated. Is there a development schedule or a prioritized list of features to be implemented? A development schedule is always difficult in an all-volunteer project. I think it's pretty realistic now to target an initial release in late summer 2005. I'm currently working off this list: http://wiki.apache.org/xmlgraphics-fop/FOPWorkEstimates But this list isn't binding. You're free to choose what you like to work on. If you want to build the Java2D renderer, that's great. If you want to help with the layout engine, even better. If you start a task simply notify us what you're working on so we don't have duplicate effort. Is anybody else actively working on the awt rendered for the next release? No, not at the moment. Since this is my first foray into open-source development, any and all advice is welcome. The advice is simple: Choose something to work on, notify this list (if it's something bigger), start hacking and in the end send patches via Bugzilla. Of course, this is a bit simplistic but essentially this is all what you need to know for now. :-) If you have questions simply ask. We're happy to help you getting started. Jeremias Maerki
Re: marketing Defoe (was: another nose for the grindstone)
Peter, it's ok if you make other people aware of your project but the way you did that in your last post disturbs me. We know that you disagree with FOP's approach, but I would have preferred a more constructive form of making Mark aware of Defoe. Maybe I'm overreacting... On 17.01.2005 06:01:27 Peter B. West wrote: Mark, Project Defoe http://defoe.sourceforge.net/, formerly Fop alt-design, is focussed on a Java 2D renderer, robust and complete. By complete I mean, in particular, able to correctly handle last-page, keeps, table auto-layout and large files. Don't make the mistake of thinking that, because FOP has been around for a long time, it is only the place to be for open source XSL-FO development. Rather, ask why, if it has been around for such a long time, these problems haven't been solved. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all software problems are solved by simply applying more resources. Having said that, let me add that the project seems to have found its shepherd, in the form of Finn Bock. Many of the long-standing innovations of alt-design in the property handling have at last been introduced by Finn, who has the happy knack of being able to completely rewrite large chunks of FOP by applying a wide-ranging but complete set of changes. He may well solve FOP's remaining critical problems in the same way. The point is, that FOP needs a major design overhaul. I'm doing that at Defoe, and Finn is doing it, piecemeal, at FOP. His focus though is not on Java 2D, and getting a complete and robust implementation of the 2D renderer will depend on Finn's new design. If you want to know more about where FOP is headed, ask Finn. Defoe is Java 5.0 based. If that doesn't work for you, don't bother with Defoe. Otherwise, if you are interested in avenues for your XSL-FO development efforts, I am happy to talk to you. Jeremias Maerki
Re: another nose for the grindstone
Mark, Project Defoe http://defoe.sourceforge.net/, formerly Fop alt-design, is focussed on a Java 2D renderer, robust and complete. By complete I mean, in particular, able to correctly handle last-page, keeps, table auto-layout and large files. Don't make the mistake of thinking that, because FOP has been around for a long time, it is only the place to be for open source XSL-FO development. Rather, ask why, if it has been around for such a long time, these problems haven't been solved. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all software problems are solved by simply applying more resources. Having said that, let me add that the project seems to have found its shepherd, in the form of Finn Bock. Many of the long-standing innovations of alt-design in the property handling have at last been introduced by Finn, who has the happy knack of being able to completely rewrite large chunks of FOP by applying a wide-ranging but complete set of changes. He may well solve FOP's remaining critical problems in the same way. The point is, that FOP needs a major design overhaul. I'm doing that at Defoe, and Finn is doing it, piecemeal, at FOP. His focus though is not on Java 2D, and getting a complete and robust implementation of the 2D renderer will depend on Finn's new design. If you want to know more about where FOP is headed, ask Finn. Defoe is Java 5.0 based. If that doesn't work for you, don't bother with Defoe. Otherwise, if you are interested in avenues for your XSL-FO development efforts, I am happy to talk to you. Peter Mark Brucks wrote: I'd like to join the fop development group. I've been an xsl/fop user for the last year or so (generating PDF), but several new projects I'm proposing have a need for a robust and complete awt renderer, and I'd like to devote some time to ensuring this happens. I have a little bit of time in the near term to commit to the project, and I hope much more time starting in the April time frame. I'd like to use the next 2 months to come up to speed, then dive in to serious work when more time is available. I need some advice. I've learned enough about xsl and fop to get my job done, but there are lots of holes in my knowledge base. I'd like to spend a little bit of time carefully reading the XSL spec. Should I read the XSL V1.1 working draft (in anticipation of things to come), or should I stick with the V1.0 recommendation (which I assume is what the new version of fop will implement). Do the development and design documents that are available on-line relate to the root/trunk/redesign version, or do they still describe the maintenance branch? Is there a development schedule or a prioritized list of features to be implemented? Is anybody else actively working on the awt rendered for the next release? Since this is my first foray into open-source development, any and all advice is welcome. Thanks - Mark Brucks
