Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production
Fred Bauder wrote: 'Forget altruism. Misanthropy and egotism are the fuel of online social production. That's the conclusion suggested by a new study of the character traits of the contributors to Wikipedia. A team of Israeli research psychologists gave personality tests to 69 Wikipedians and 70 non-Wikipedians. They discovered that, as New Scientist puts ithttp://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16349-psychologist-finds-wikipedians-grumpy-and-closedminded.html, Wikipedians are generally grumpy, disagreeable, and closed to new ideas.' http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2009/06/the_sour_wikipe.php I wonder how the mailing list will react Always knew this, Wikipedia is generally an outlet for folks who have low interpersonal social skills, or at least insufficient outlets for self expression. As to Disagreeable and closed to new ideas, that is policy, Wikipedia is a compendium of established knowledge, not a place for new ideas, which we call original research. The flaw in the latter part of your comments is that I don't believe that they were talking about content. Had it been about content you would certainly be right. Biting newbies, aggressive insistence on established procedures and guidelines across a wide range of article types, or general impatience are all part of the more disagreeable qualities to be found. As a community grows in size and self-importance it becomes easier to ignore new ideas by reacting to them with silence. By quietly disposing of new ideas the community's immune system is at its bacteriophagic best; it is just not smart enough to distinguish between cancers and cures. Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Video and subtitles
http://metavid.org/wiki/ http://metavid.org/wiki/MetaVidWiki_Software http://metavid.org/wiki/MetaVidWiki_Features_Overview On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote: Hoi, I am at the moment at a book sprint about Open Translation Tools. One of the topics in the books is how to deal with video. Subtitling and dubbing are the two obvious techniques to make video relevant for multiple languages. Kaltura was mentioned and, Kaltura has combined its platform with SubPLY for its subtitling. As I understand it at this moment, SubPLY is proprietary. Does this mean that we do not have a way to subtitle the videos that we hope to host in the near future. Thanks, GerardM ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Wikimedia in the UK
What Wikimedia events or activities would you like to see take place in the UK? We're currently trying to pull together ideas for initiatives that Wikimedia UK can support, at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Proposals There have been lots of ideas posted at: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives/Ideas which need fleshing out before they can be taken forward. We've also got a list of things that we've already supported at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Initiatives We're having an open IRC meeting to discuss possible initiatives, which will take place this coming Tuesday, the 30th June 2009, at 8.30PM BST (19:30 GMT), in #wikimedia-uk on irc.freenode.net . For more information, and to say that you'll be coming, please visit: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings/Discussions/Initiatives Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation, and is set up as a membership-run non-profit UK company limited by guarantee. To find out more information, to join or to donate, please visit our website at http://uk.wikimedia.org/ . Thanks, Mike Peel Chair, Wikimedia UK - http://uk.wikimedia.org/ Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited. Wiki UK Ltd is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. The Registered Office is at 23 Cartwright Way, Nottingham, NG9 1RL, United Kingdom ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Why Wikipedia and not the Wikipedia?
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Thomas Daltonthomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/6/28 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com: Wikipedia does not take an article, nor does Wikimedia. As far as I'm concerned Wikimedia doesn't exist as a proper noun. It's just an adjective: the Wikimedia Foundation, the Wikimedia movement, the Wikimedia projects, the Wikimedia community etc. Nonsense -- Wikimedia is a proper (and trademarked) name. There are lots of parts of Wikimedia, and that's generally how it's used -- e.g. the Wikimedia community -- but that's no different than saying the Microsoft developer community. That common usage doesn't mean that Microsoft is not also a proper name! One of the most confusing parts of all of this is the fact that the Wikipedia is incorrect, but the English Wikipedia is correct. SJ explained why better than I can. -- phoebe ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, The signpost is something of the English Wikipedia. I do not frequent there. Also you are wrong on principles when you expect people of this list to give the English Wikipedia all their attention. This is after all the foundation list. Thanks. GerardMM Don't be grumpy :) This seems like a good time to plug the Signpost (again): We have a blog: http://www.wikipediasignpost.com/blog/ with an RSS feed of new issues, so you never have to go near the English Wikipedia if you don't want to. Though if you do, you can sign up for talk page delivery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Tools/Spamlist and as a special bonus Sage is keeping a twitter account with interesting WP news: http://twitter.com/wikisignpost And we're trying hard to include project-wide and Foundation news, including research etc., as well as happenings on en:wp. (don't forget to add your tips to the tipline: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions). -- Phoebe ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikizine at foundaiton-l?
David Gerard wrote: 2009/6/28 Walter Vermeir wal...@wikipedia.be: Probaly useful for those who do not know it; an expamle It comes out infrequently enough that I suggest that posting it here regularly would be an excellent idea. Could generate discussion, too. And reader submissions! I am in favor of this. It's certainly relevant to this list. Cary ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikizine at foundaiton-l?
I also think it's a good idea. It contains a lot of useful information and would be valuable for subscribers to this list. --- Rjd0060 rjd0060.w...@gmail.com On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Cary Bass c...@wikimedia.org wrote: David Gerard wrote: 2009/6/28 Walter Vermeir wal...@wikipedia.be: Probaly useful for those who do not know it; an expamle It comes out infrequently enough that I suggest that posting it here regularly would be an excellent idea. Could generate discussion, too. And reader submissions! I am in favor of this. It's certainly relevant to this list. Cary ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikizine at foundaiton-l?
It's a magnificent idea in my opinion, as well. Just make sure, please, that you include a prominent unsubscribe link in the first couple of issues, so those who are subscribers of this list as well as Wikizine can unsubscribe the duplicate copy. Best, Bence 2009/6/29 Rjd0060 rjd0060.w...@gmail.com I also think it's a good idea. It contains a lot of useful information and would be valuable for subscribers to this list. --- Rjd0060 rjd0060.w...@gmail.com On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Cary Bass c...@wikimedia.org wrote: David Gerard wrote: 2009/6/28 Walter Vermeir wal...@wikipedia.be: Probaly useful for those who do not know it; an expamle It comes out infrequently enough that I suggest that posting it here regularly would be an excellent idea. Could generate discussion, too. And reader submissions! I am in favor of this. It's certainly relevant to this list. Cary ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikizine at foundaiton-l?
Bence Damokos schreef: It's a magnificent idea in my opinion, as well. Just make sure, please, that you include a prominent unsubscribe link in the first couple of issues, so those who are subscribers of this list as well as Wikizine can unsubscribe the duplicate copy. Best, Bence All postings to Foundation-l include by default unsubscribe information in the footer to unsubscribe from Foundation-l. So does the Wikizine mailing lists postings to unsubscribe from those. General RE; Anyone who has problems to unsubscribe can also ask by means of the admin email address / feedback channels that are provided. Please do not to that on the list itself. To what you subscribe is your own choice of course. But it can be useful to stay subscribed to EN Wikizine directly. It depends what your reader profile is. In any case if EN Wikizine can be posted on Foundation-l it increases the exposure to it. What will result, I strongly hope, in deeper penetration in the non-English language projects and feedback increase in general. Greetings, Walter -- Contact: walter AT wikizine DOT org Wikizine.org - news for and about the Wikimedia community ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production
Hoi, Is this blog syndicated on either of the two ? That would be the obvious thing to get it read :) Thanks, GerardM 2009/6/29 phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, The signpost is something of the English Wikipedia. I do not frequent there. Also you are wrong on principles when you expect people of this list to give the English Wikipedia all their attention. This is after all the foundation list. Thanks. GerardMM Don't be grumpy :) This seems like a good time to plug the Signpost (again): We have a blog: http://www.wikipediasignpost.com/blog/ with an RSS feed of new issues, so you never have to go near the English Wikipedia if you don't want to. Though if you do, you can sign up for talk page delivery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Tools/Spamlist and as a special bonus Sage is keeping a twitter account with interesting WP news: http://twitter.com/wikisignpost And we're trying hard to include project-wide and Foundation news, including research etc., as well as happenings on en:wp. (don't forget to add your tips to the tipline: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions ). -- Phoebe ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikizine at foundaiton-l?
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Walter Vermeirwal...@wikipedia.be wrote: Bence Damokos schreef: It's a magnificent idea in my opinion, as well. Just make sure, please, that you include a prominent unsubscribe link in the first couple of issues, so those who are subscribers of this list as well as Wikizine can unsubscribe the duplicate copy. Best, Bence All postings to Foundation-l include by default unsubscribe information in the footer to unsubscribe from Foundation-l. So does the Wikizine mailing lists postings to unsubscribe from those. General RE; Anyone who has problems to unsubscribe can also ask by means of the admin email address / feedback channels that are provided. Please do not to that on the list itself. To what you subscribe is your own choice of course. But it can be useful to stay subscribed to EN Wikizine directly. It depends what your reader profile is. In any case if EN Wikizine can be posted on Foundation-l it increases the exposure to it. What will result, I strongly hope, in deeper penetration in the non-English language projects and feedback increase in general. Greetings, Walter -- Contact: walter AT wikizine DOT org Wikizine.org - news for and about the Wikimedia community ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l Magnificent idea! I would encourage other cross-project user-driven initiatives such as this to consider similar postings (Podcasts too! A copy of the summary with a link to the episode would do nicely :). As long as they're cross-project they would fit the scope of foundation-l well. IMO, everyone benefits! -Chad ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Licensing update rolled out in all languages/projects
After an initial reference implementation in the English Wikipedia and some bottom-up implementations in a number of projects, the licensing update to the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License as the primary text license, with GFDL as a secondary license with limitations, has now been implemented in all previously GFDL-licensed Wikimedia Foundation projects. Wiki communities can now customize these texts further in accordance with the implementation guidelines issued by the Wikimedia Foundation at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Licensing_update/Implementation Importantly, this allows Wikimedia wiki communities to create their own copy of the terms of use, with specific limitations on or guidelines for attribution of externally imported CC-BY-SA content, more detailed explanations for re-users, etc. The implementation guidelines do allow significant flexibility, but we're hoping to ensure baseline consistency across projects and languages, so please do not deviate significantly from the guidelines. (If you feel the guidelines are flawed, feel free to comment on the talk page on meta.) If the messages have not been translated into your language yet, it is appreciated to do this work through translatewiki.net so that it doesn't have to be redundantly done for each Wikimedia project in that language. As translatewiki.net translators know, localization changes from there are rolled out regularly alongside normal code updates. Thanks to our good friends there for helping with the process so far, and thanks to all the translators. The relevant user interface texts are MediaWiki system messages and can be viewed and edited through the MediaWiki: namespace. They are: [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright]] for the site footer [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyrightwarning]] for the editing page, above the save/preview buttons [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-editpage-tos-summary]] for the editing page, below the save/preview buttons. For the more technical users, these changes were introduced to MediaWiki in the following code revision: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/52361. They live in the WikimediaMessages extension, which is only used by Wikimedia Foundation wikis. These messages override standard system messages, [[MediaWiki:Copyright]] and [[MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning]]. [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] has sometimes been used to move this type of licensing information below the buttons/summary; the newly introduced [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-editpage-tos-summary]] is meant to reflect this need while allowing us to consistently update/review these messages. Finally, a note on trademark recognition. Some projects have a little trademark notice in the footers, others don't. This notice isn't required (but helpful); we're working on standardized trademark usage guidelines, and we'll probably add a link to the site footer to these once they're finalized. I'll be checking the wikis, and particularly [[m:Talk:Licensing update]] and [[m:Talk:Licensing update/Implementation]] for comments, but please let me know if there are any immediate issues. Thanks, Erik -- Erik Möller Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Wikipedia article traffic statistics - copyright?
Henrik's Wikipedia article traffic statistics tool does not indicate copyright or license status, so it's not clear if I can include a chart on a Wikipedia page. Does anyone know the license status for the charts? http://stats.grok.se/ -Aude ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] antisocial production pt:wiki policies
Talking about antisocial... It's quite interesting what I experienced in this very list. I wasn't aware of the study published in the New Scientist until I read about it here on the list, and appreciate the information very much. Earlier this month I wrote about my perception of the same inadequate behavior on the Portuguese Wikipedia and the adverse consequences that might have. Not surprisingly I met a pretty derogatory comment and plenty of silence. I certainly don't have the status of the New Scientist. I also don't have, yet, any study to back up my observations. Nevertheless I'm saddened by the undeniable evidence, that even on this list it is easier to find displeasure than empathy, camaraderie, not to mention friendship. As I was told: That doesn't really fly here. Sincerely, Virgilio A. P. Machado ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia article traffic statistics - copyright?
2009/6/30 Aude aude.w...@gmail.com: Henrik's Wikipedia article traffic statistics tool does not indicate copyright or license status, so it's not clear if I can include a chart on a Wikipedia page. Does anyone know the license status for the charts? http://stats.grok.se/ Facts aren't usually copyrightable and I doubt database rights apply (I don't know much about them, though), so it's just the presentation of the data in a chart that could potentially be protected. If you take the numbers and produce your own chart you'll be absolutely fine. I'm not sure there is enough creativity or work involved in making the charts for them to be copyrightable anyway. That said, the easiest solution is probably just to ask the creator to release them under CC-BY-SA here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Henrik ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production pt:wiki policies
The most significant problem, Virgilio, is that there isn't too much people on this list can do. Unless and until problems become so clear that steward or Foundation action are obviously called for, there is unlikely to be much concrete action at all. Since we can't impose a solution to the problems you've identified from afar, and most of us can neither verify these problems nor participate in fixing them without speaking the language... What else should we do? You're right, though, that exchanges on this list aren't always very friendly. Maybe because very few discussions are actually productive, and outside of cooperative effort most friendly exchanges are more likely to be taken off-list. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] antisocial production pt:wiki policies
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Thanks for the comments from Marc, Nathan and Steven. I'm hurrying this response in an attempt to keep the subject alive for a little longer and generate some interest from others. Marc, you comment is not very optimistic, but it was a great incentive to do what I announced above. Hopefully others will be more encouraged to voice their ideas about other matters, knowing they'll find a friendly hear and some useful and very welcome feedback. I'm glad to find Nathan in a better mood this time :-). Of course language is a problem. This is indeed a very interesting problem that I hope has a solution in the international wikipedian community. That is also an obstacle to getting on greater detail in this list since most of its members would not be able to verify and cross check that information. The Foundation can't afford to let a Wikipedia on some obscure language (that is not the case of Portuguese) to run wild and be run by some mob. At some time a flag will go up. What then? I could offer some suggestions, but I was hoping that you all would come up with some useful and tested procedures. I'm afraid to have to admit that the lack of interest and advice that I got, so far, covers both list and off-list. I wish that would change, again not only for the present case, but what kind of message is this sending to others? How sure can we all be that there aren't or there would not be other cases in the future? Quite frankly, I would rather be wrong (not a very palatable prospect) but give others the assurance that their voices will be heard, than letting them remember the story of this guy from somewhere who blew the whistle and nobody cared. Sincerely, Virgilio A. P. Machado ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production pt:wiki policies
Steven Walling wrote: 1. You're wrong. Just today I myself received some kind words offlist, but related to a thread. Just because you're not getting the air of friendliness you desire (at this moment anyway), doesn't mean friendliness doesn't exist. Getting friendly words offlist, says nothing about the list. I'm sure that we all are more friendly with some than with others, so there's nothing unusual about private messages. It's much easier to say something to someone privately; there is less risk of needing to defend every point that you are raising, less risk that some detail might be taken adversarially. 2. It's a mailing list for discussion and debate, not an outlet for personal validation. If you don't like being debated and disagreed with, then don't post your opinions on something. I personally find asking questions rather than making statements tends to garner a gentler response, if you're in need of one. Conflationist nonsense! One of the problems is precisely that those who don't like being bullied don't post, because that shuts out an entire range of opinions from those who are more thoughtful than loud. There's a problem with just asking questions too. If what you want is a dose of paternalistic pablum, that's exactly what you'll get. Attend a political (or some other) speech that is followed by a question period, and there is an implicit social barrier between you and the speaker. If you know he's wrong you still have to concede that he is in a position to shout louder. 3. All mailing lists are at times more hostile than any real life conversation. It's far from unique to Wikimedia lists, and I've seen *far*more angry flame wars on other mailing lists. If it's a problem of the medium of mailing lists and not of Wikimedian culture, then there's nothing we could change about our culture that would make a mailing list more friendly. I for one see us as already going out of our way to try and be a culture that welcomes open discussion free of insulting behavior. It's not just mailing lists. Perhaps our worst offenders don't even participate in the mailing lists. Mailing lists are certainly less hostile than those in-your-face real life situations that encourage violence. Perhaps too, those who shout here wouldn't have the courage to express their real feelings in person to their opponents. Going out of one's way is primarily a reflection of individual efforts, and we do have some such individuals. It doesn't generalize well into a community effort. Ec On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The most significant problem, Virgilio, is that there isn't too much people on this list can do. Unless and until problems become so clear that steward or Foundation action are obviously called for, there is unlikely to be much concrete action at all. Since we can't impose a solution to the problems you've identified from afar, and most of us can neither verify these problems nor participate in fixing them without speaking the language... What else should we do? You're right, though, that exchanges on this list aren't always very friendly. Maybe because very few discussions are actually productive, and outside of cooperative effort most friendly exchanges are more likely to be taken off-list. Nathan ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia article traffic statistics - copyright?
On Jun 30, 2009, at 3:13 AM, Aude wrote: Henrik's Wikipedia article traffic statistics tool does not indicate copyright or license status, so it's not clear if I can include a chart on a Wikipedia page. Does anyone know the license status for the charts? base data is in public domain (the one used by Henrik's, and other tools). not sure if Henrik has placed any limitations on charts themselves :-) Domas ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
