Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Ryan Lomonaco]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Kwan Ting Chan  wrote:

> Local celebrities for next time. "Simon Cowell says: Donate to
>> Wikipedia or I'll put out *two* X-Factor singles for Christmas. I warn
>> you."
>>
>
>
> There has been two X-factor singles. One from the winner, and one from all
> the finalist earlier for charity. ;-)
>

Apparently someone out there didn't donate, and Simon's angry.  I don't know
who it was, but if you're reading this, on behalf of the rest of the world,
look what you've done!  Look what we have to put up with, thanks to you!

-- 
[[User:Ral315]]
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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Kwan Ting Chan]

David Gerard wrote:

2009/12/17 Thomas Dalton :


I agree with Bod - most people I know will have heard of Craigslist,
but I don't know anyone that has used it. We know about it because it
is mentioned quite often on TV imported from the US. However, despite
everyone having heard of Craigslist, it seems Britons aren't inspired
to donate by its founder telling them to. While the Craig Appeal
banner was being shown 20% of the time, Wikimedia UK saw a 20% drop in
fundraising income compared to the WMF (I look at the ratios of our
income to the WMF's, which usually cancels out any changes due to the
different banners). There is plenty of variation day to day, but 20%
is a bigger change that is usual.



Local celebrities for next time. "Simon Cowell says: Donate to
Wikipedia or I'll put out *two* X-Factor singles for Christmas. I warn
you."


There has been two X-factor singles. One from the winner, and one from 
all the finalist earlier for charity. ;-)


--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine


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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[David Gerard]

2009/12/17 Thomas Dalton :

> I agree with Bod - most people I know will have heard of Craigslist,
> but I don't know anyone that has used it. We know about it because it
> is mentioned quite often on TV imported from the US. However, despite
> everyone having heard of Craigslist, it seems Britons aren't inspired
> to donate by its founder telling them to. While the Craig Appeal
> banner was being shown 20% of the time, Wikimedia UK saw a 20% drop in
> fundraising income compared to the WMF (I look at the ratios of our
> income to the WMF's, which usually cancels out any changes due to the
> different banners). There is plenty of variation day to day, but 20%
> is a bigger change that is usual.


Local celebrities for next time. "Simon Cowell says: Donate to
Wikipedia or I'll put out *two* X-Factor singles for Christmas. I warn
you."


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/12/17 Philippe Beaudette :
>
> On Dec 17, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Bod Notbod wrote:
>
>>  Craigslist is certainly well known. But entirely
>> unused.
>
>
> That's fascinating, actually - anthropologically, I'm intrigued at a
> site that's a household name in that demographic while being unused.
> Globalization adds interesting twists to all of this, doesn't it?

I agree with Bod - most people I know will have heard of Craigslist,
but I don't know anyone that has used it. We know about it because it
is mentioned quite often on TV imported from the US. However, despite
everyone having heard of Craigslist, it seems Britons aren't inspired
to donate by its founder telling them to. While the Craig Appeal
banner was being shown 20% of the time, Wikimedia UK saw a 20% drop in
fundraising income compared to the WMF (I look at the ratios of our
income to the WMF's, which usually cancels out any changes due to the
different banners). There is plenty of variation day to day, but 20%
is a bigger change that is usual.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Secret Santa!

[phoebe ayers]

A reminder to sign up by Sat. if you want to participate. -- phoebe

---

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM, phoebe ayers  wrote:
> Hello Wikimedians,
>
> Austin and I thought it might be fun to have a Secret Santa New Year's
> drawing among Wikimedia friends! We're basing it on the MetaFilter
> community Secret Santa drawing, which has 256 participants and uses a
> website called Elfster.
>
> Totally optional of course, but totally fun to get random things in
> the mail from other community members.
>
> Here's the link to sign up and join the group, if you want to participate:
> http://www.elfster.com/apps/exchange/Join.aspx?euid=D78EF055-CF27-4E8F-8E29-205AE28927F6
>
> How it works:
>
> * Sign up at Elfster by Saturday, December 19 if you want to
> participate. This part is important -- we'll do the automagical
> drawing that day. Don't forget to add your address! (address settings
> are under "you" on the site; only the person who draws your name will
> be able to see your mailing address. But do remember that if you want
> to participate, you'll have to make your postal address available to
> at least one other person. The name you register with is visible to
> other group members, but not email.)
>
> * Elfster sends you the name of your secret santa recipient (from
> "sa...@elfster.com")
>
> * buy, make or find a gift -- price guideline $10ish or less
> (+postage); it's just a guideline but don't go crazy. Small gifts are
> fine.
>
> * the deadline to get your present to your recipient is Saturday,
> January 16th (since we're starting so late -- and yes, the
> international mail will have delays).
>
> Happy New Years!
> -- Phoebe and Austin
>



-- 
* I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
 gmail.com *

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Tim Landscheidt]

Bod Notbod  wrote:

>> If we put a quote from Nelson Mandela there, for example, it isn't very 
>> likely that he will get any money
>> or website traffic or any quantifiable benefit from our banner.

> I'm not against the Craig banner but you do raise an interesting
> point, in that I think we could do better.

> Who would people's ideal banner person be?

> I think our aims are noble enough to attract someone truly great.

> Nelson Mandela would be amazing, wouldn't he? I think we could
> genuinely aim that high, especially if we can access him via the One
> Laptop Per Child initiative.

Apparently, he has written quite a few books that a banner
could be construed advertizing for.

Tim


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Re: [Foundation-l] Open Wiki Blog Planet

[Anthony]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Sage Ross

> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Anthony  wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Sage Ross
> > <
> ragesoss%2bwikipe...@gmail.com >
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> For what it's worth, I agree with David Gerard that Open Wiki Blog
> >> Planet is not properly subject to Wikipedia policies;
> >
> >
> > Not even the policies at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_page ?
> > How's that going to work?
>
> I don't see anything there that applies to the way the Open Wiki Blog
> Planet feed list is done,


"there is broad agreement that you may not include in your user space
material that is likely to bring the project into disrepute"  I guess it
doesn't say anything about what you can include in someone else's user
space, but I think that can be assumed.


> and if it did conflict, as David suggested,
> the way to resolve it would be to move the page to another wiki rather
> than censor bloggers.
>

Another wiki not run by the Wikimedia Foundation, fine.  Of course, it's up
to Nick whether he'd prefer to do that.  Personally I see no point in having
Open Wiki Blog Planet host personal attacks (nor for it to host posts having
nothing to do with Wikimedia projects), so if I were Nick I'd choose not to
do so.


> But as John Vandenberg points out in the other thread, the removal had
> nothing to do with ArbCom, and we are of course free to decide which
> blogs we as a community do and don't want as part of the feed.


Whoever runs Open Wiki Blog Planet (I assume it's Nick) is free to decide
which blogs he does and doesn't want as part of the feed.


> It's
> my view, though, that we shouldn't feel compelled to remove a blog
> because of the policies of English Wikipedia.
>

On that, I agree.  Though I assume the policies of English Wikipedia most
likely will overlap with the policies of Open Wiki Blog Planet.
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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Philippe Beaudette]

On Dec 17, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Bod Notbod wrote:

>  Craigslist is certainly well known. But entirely
> unused.


That's fascinating, actually - anthropologically, I'm intrigued at a  
site that's a household name in that demographic while being unused.   
Globalization adds interesting twists to all of this, doesn't it?


Philippe Beaudette  
Facilitator, Strategy Project
Wikimedia Foundation

phili...@wikimedia.org

mobile: 918 200-WIKI (9454)

Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge.  Help us make it a reality!

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Bod Notbod]

With regard to whether Craigslist is too parochial, I can give some
insight into the UK view.

Amongst my online friends (young, 20-40 year old, IT literate,
affluent consumers) Craigslist is certainly well known. But entirely
unused. I haven't heard of a single person using the site from this
country.

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Bod Notbod]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Mark Williamson  wrote:

> If we put a quote from Nelson Mandela there, for example, it isn't very 
> likely that he will get any money
> or website traffic or any quantifiable benefit from our banner.

I'm not against the Craig banner but you do raise an interesting
point, in that I think we could do better.

Who would people's ideal banner person be?

I think our aims are noble enough to attract someone truly great.

Nelson Mandela would be amazing, wouldn't he? I think we could
genuinely aim that high, especially if we can access him via the One
Laptop Per Child initiative.

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[David Gerard]

2009/12/17 Mark Williamson :

> This is great publicity for Craigslist and it would be silly to measure the
> impact by the number of pageviews for our own page on Craigslist. I think
> the point Geni was trying to make is that it has indeed raised some interest
> in Craigslist, rather than just helping WMF.


This implies it's zero-sum.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Mark Williamson]

Overly simplifying, indeed. How did you arrive at the $40 estimate? Are you
trying to convert the 15K pageviews in 1 day into a dollar value?

Do you think that when people see advertisements on TV, they all immediately
flock to websites to look up the product? No, of course not, only a minority
of them will, but the web traffic isn't what the advertisers are paying for.
It is the message, they are paying to get their name out there in a certain
context.

This is great publicity for Craigslist and it would be silly to measure the
impact by the number of pageviews for our own page on Craigslist. I think
the point Geni was trying to make is that it has indeed raised some interest
in Craigslist, rather than just helping WMF.

Mark

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:58 AM, William Pietri wrote:

> Interesting! If I read that right, the Craigslist page on Wikipedia got
> an extra 15k pageviews or so. As a comparison, my rough guess is that
> Craigslist gets 100m pageviews/day. I base that on these numbers:
>
> http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOrigins.htm
> http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/craigslist.org+wikipedia.org
>
> Assuming the estimate of circa $100m in annual revenues, and making a
> number of other overly simplifying assumptions, the ballpark financial
> advantage to Craigslist for Craig Newmark's appearance here is about
> $40, or 13 seconds worth of revenues.
>
> William
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[William Pietri]

On 12/16/2009 05:05 AM, geni wrote:
> There is one point left. We can't measure the change in traffic to
> Craigslist but we can measure this:
>
> http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Craigslist
>


Interesting! If I read that right, the Craigslist page on Wikipedia got 
an extra 15k pageviews or so. As a comparison, my rough guess is that 
Craigslist gets 100m pageviews/day. I base that on these numbers:

http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOrigins.htm
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/craigslist.org+wikipedia.org

Assuming the estimate of circa $100m in annual revenues, and making a 
number of other overly simplifying assumptions, the ballpark financial 
advantage to Craigslist for Craig Newmark's appearance here is about 
$40, or 13 seconds worth of revenues.

William

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Re: [Foundation-l] Open Wiki Blog Planet

[Sage Ross]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Anthony  wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Sage Ross
> 
>> wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, I agree with David Gerard that Open Wiki Blog
>> Planet is not properly subject to Wikipedia policies;
>
>
> Not even the policies at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_page ?
> How's that going to work?

I don't see anything there that applies to the way the Open Wiki Blog
Planet feed list is done, and if it did conflict, as David suggested,
the way to resolve it would be to move the page to another wiki rather
than censor bloggers.

But as John Vandenberg points out in the other thread, the removal had
nothing to do with ArbCom, and we are of course free to decide which
blogs we as a community do and don't want as part of the feed.  It's
my view, though, that we shouldn't feel compelled to remove a blog
because of the policies of English Wikipedia.

-Sage

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Robert Rohde]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Robert Rohde  wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:05 AM, geni  wrote:
>> There is one point left. We can't measure the change in traffic to
>> Craigslist but we can measure this:
>>
>> http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Craigslist
>>
>
> If you are going to play that game, the one for Craig Newmark is better:
>
> http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Craig%20Newmark

To be fair though, you show a message mentioning absolutely anything
40 M times (20% of 200M daily page views) and some people are going to
look it up. Frankly I'm suprised the lookup rate isn't higher.

-Robert Rohde

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Robert Rohde]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 5:05 AM, geni  wrote:
> There is one point left. We can't measure the change in traffic to
> Craigslist but we can measure this:
>
> http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Craigslist
>

If you are going to play that game, the one for Craig Newmark is better:

http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Craig%20Newmark

-Robert Rohde

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Re: [Foundation-l] Open Wiki Blog Planet

[Anthony]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Sage Ross

> wrote:

> For what it's worth, I agree with David Gerard that Open Wiki Blog
> Planet is not properly subject to Wikipedia policies;


Not even the policies at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_page ?
How's that going to work?
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Re: [Foundation-l] Open Wiki Blog Planet

[Sage Ross]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Gregory Kohs  wrote:
> David Gerard says:
>
> +
>
> 2009/12/15 Steven Walling  >:
>
>>* Have you added your new blog to Open Wiki Blog Planet and the Wikimedia
> *>* aggregator?
> *
>
> The en:wp arbcom have started messing with the Open Wiki Blog Planet,
> on the pretext that if the control page is on en:wp then they must own
> it. Suggest moving control page to Meta.
>
>
> - d.
>
> +
>
> David, could you please provide more detail to your characterization that
> ArbCom is "messing with" this aggregator?
>

He must have been talking about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3ANickj%2Fopen-wikiblogplanet-config.ini&action=historysubmit&diff=330197740&oldid=325150787

John Vandenberg removed David Shankbone's blog, with the comment
"remove Shankbone's blog; feel free to add if it can be filtered to
exclude posts that attack BLPs".

For what it's worth, I agree with David Gerard that Open Wiki Blog
Planet is not properly subject to Wikipedia policies; David Shankbone
and other bloggers have a responsibility to own their own words and
deal with any consequences, but (unlike Planet Wikimedia, perhaps) I
don't see any formal connection between Wikipedia and the aggregator
except that the feed list happens to be hosted on en.wp.

-Sage

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Anthony]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:05 AM, geni  wrote:

> There is one point left. We can't measure the change in traffic to
> Craigslist but we can measure this:
>
> http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Craigslist
>

I'm actually not making a point with this link, I just find it interesting:

http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Yizhao%20Lang
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[Foundation-l] Open Wiki Blog Planet

[Gregory Kohs]

David Gerard says:

+

2009/12/15 Steven Walling https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l>>:

>* Have you added your new blog to Open Wiki Blog Planet and the Wikimedia
*>* aggregator?
*

The en:wp arbcom have started messing with the Open Wiki Blog Planet,
on the pretext that if the control page is on en:wp then they must own
it. Suggest moving control page to Meta.


- d.

+

David, could you please provide more detail to your characterization that
ArbCom is "messing with" this aggregator?


--
Gregory Kohs
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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Gregory Kohs]

It sounds like some Foundation-l readers are unfamiliar with Craigslist.
Here are some news clippings to better familiarize yourself:

*http://tinyurl.com/craigslist-in-news

*Gregory Kohs*
*
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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/12/15 Bryan Tong Minh :
> What particularly annoys me, is that the banner invites people to to click on
> them, but when I click on it I get to the Dutch donation page, which does not
> answer my question at all "Why Craig of Craigslist urges me to support
> Wikipedia".

This is a known problem with the way the geolocation works. I uploaded
a patch to bugzilla which would allow chapters to create localised
version of landing pages and have banners go directly to them, but,
despite the WMF thanking me for it, they have completely ignored it.
The UK landing page has a link at the top linking to a page with the
statement from Craig, but the same hasn't been done for other
chapters. I think the WMF is assuming that most people in countries
with chapters taking part in the fundraiser use their local language
version of Wikipedia, and this statement is only being shown on the
English Wikipedia, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. I don't
know how accurate that assumption is.

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Re: [Foundation-l] advertising craigslist

[geni]

2009/12/16 Liam Wyatt :
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Andre Engels  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Thomas Dalton 
>> wrote:
>> > We've advertised third party for-profits in the past with prominent
>> > matched donations notices before (albeit controversially). This isn't
>> > that different.
>>
>> As you say, that one was controversial and this one isn't that
>> different. Then it should not surprise you that this one is
>> controversial too, should it? Or do people lose the right to complain
>> against something if it happens the second time?
>>
>>
>> --
>> André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com
>
>
> At what point is something "controversial"? As far as I can remember there
> hasn't been a single decision in the history of Wikimedia that has received
> universal support. Some people will complain no matter what happens. When
> you're the person doing the complaining it is your POV that the issue is
> "controversial", whereas when you're the one who isn't complaining then it
> is your POV that the issue is NOT "controversial" and the complainers are
> just overreacting.
>
> There is no objective criteria to define controversy. Furthermore, if there
> is one place in the Wikimedia world where people complain the loudest,
> longest and for most obscure reasons - it's here on foundatio.nl So, whilst
> I'm not ignoring the fact that Geni et. al. genuinely feel that this was a
> bad decision on behalf of the fundraising team, I do not believe that this
> particular issue warrants the term "controversy". It is something that some
> people dislike but most people are either indifferent to it or see it
> favourably. Your concerns have been raised, elaborated and debated. I don't
> think there's anything more that can be said about this particular issue
> other than to reiterate already voiced points.
>
> -Liam [[witty lama]]
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata

There is one point left. We can't measure the change in traffic to
Craigslist but we can measure this:

http://stats.grok.se/en/200912/Craigslist


-- 
geni

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