Re: [Foundation-l] Chapters

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

> Nor does off-wiki collaboration require that a formal entity be in
> existence.  Off-wiki activities -- whether social meetups or more formal
> outreach efforts to GLAM institutions and elsewhere -- are no less
> effective
> for being organized by loose groups of interested participants.  So long
as
> there is no need to handle substantial funds -- and how much of
Wikimedia
> contributors' typical work requires such? -- the lack of a legally
> constituted organization matters little.
> 
> But to take this one step further, let us assume -- for the sake of
> argument
> -- that the activities of the contributor community _do_ require the
> existence of a dedicated legal entity in a particular jurisdiction.  One
> could, potentially, construct a scenario where this is the case; for
> example, someone wishes to donate a set of copyrighted works, and
prefers
> that an organization subject to local laws be responsible for handling
the
> process.  Even in this case, however, there is no requirement that the
> legal
> entity be a "chapter" of the Wikimedia Foundation -- or, to be more
> precise,
> that the entity have in place a particular sort of trademark usage
> agreement
> with the WMF.  I can think of no conceivable need that could be filled
by a
> local entity holding rights to (non-commercial!) use of Wikimedia
> trademarks
> but could not be filled just as well by a local entity identical in
every
> way save for the lack of such access to said trademarks.
> 
And just to add to the argument, the projects are divided by language, and
not by jurisdiction. Whereas in many cases it may be unimportant (for
instance, we can safely assume that most of the activbities of the Swedish
chapter are more related to Swedish-language projects, and if there is any
chapter which "caters" to Swedisg-language projects it is the Swedish
chapter), this is not correct for most of the major languages (English,
French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Russian ...) 

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Foundation-l] Chapters

[Kirill Lokshin]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:39 PM,  wrote:

> Decentralization isn't some random choice that somehow was attached to this
> movement; it is the only way the program functions at all. WMF professionals
> can't begin to account for the program work being accomplished by the
> movement.  Has there been a recent push to catalog local train stations on
> the Albanian Wikipedia or is the current trend of work translating articles
> from a larger Wikipedia? No one knows what is actually going on in all
> wikis. Only that something goes on. But why does it go on? Because all these
> people, who could never dream of all being able to speak to one another any
> more than they could stand to live in one another's cultures, all get a
> chance to comfortably make their mark on something that seems to matter. And
> they feel rightfully that this makes them a stakeholder in something that
> matters and perhaps also feel a little more securely about how much they
> themselves matter.  Recent changes doesn't move because of "the Wikipedia
> brand", nor because of how "professional" WMF is run, nor because someone
> that has no understanding of how the program work of Wikimedia is
> accomplished feels that a description of WMF operations fails his gut check.
> Recent changes moves because individuals feel empowered by Wikimedia
> websites.  Recent changes moves entirely based of human feelings of worth
> and power and changing those feelings can make it move faster or slower. And
> there is one overarching reason people click on the banners to donate $, and
> that is because they believe donating will keep website live and recent
> changes moving.  Everything WMF does, should be checked against how it
> either helps or hinders that. And it impossible to both centralize and
> empower disparate people at the same time.


This is all very true, and very insightful; but what does it have to do with
chapters?

Just about everything that makes Wikimedia projects what they are can and
does take place irrespective of the existence of a formal, legal
organization in a particular jurisdiction.  Our putative Albanian
contributors do not wonder, as they write their train station articles,
whether there exists within the borders of Albania a legally instituted
non-profit organization acting in support of Wikimedia principles; they see
themselves as participants in an online project, not agents of a local
charity.

Nor does off-wiki collaboration require that a formal entity be in
existence.  Off-wiki activities -- whether social meetups or more formal
outreach efforts to GLAM institutions and elsewhere -- are no less effective
for being organized by loose groups of interested participants.  So long as
there is no need to handle substantial funds -- and how much of Wikimedia
contributors' typical work requires such? -- the lack of a legally
constituted organization matters little.

But to take this one step further, let us assume -- for the sake of argument
-- that the activities of the contributor community _do_ require the
existence of a dedicated legal entity in a particular jurisdiction.  One
could, potentially, construct a scenario where this is the case; for
example, someone wishes to donate a set of copyrighted works, and prefers
that an organization subject to local laws be responsible for handling the
process.  Even in this case, however, there is no requirement that the legal
entity be a "chapter" of the Wikimedia Foundation -- or, to be more precise,
that the entity have in place a particular sort of trademark usage agreement
with the WMF.  I can think of no conceivable need that could be filled by a
local entity holding rights to (non-commercial!) use of Wikimedia trademarks
but could not be filled just as well by a local entity identical in every
way save for the lack of such access to said trademarks.

This is not to say that there aren't very good reasons for having these
trademark agreements in place, of course; but the reasons have more to do
with effective brand marketing than with any _need_ on anyone's part.

Kirill
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[Foundation-l] Chapters

[Birgitte_sb]

I have realized that WMF seems to seriously misunderstand the role of chapters. 
I say this as someone who has always had a somewhat conservative view of 
chapters to begin with.  But underneath the current rift is a serious 
disconnect between WMF professionals and how this whole program actually works. 
 When I say "program", I mean the actual program work of Wikimedia which is 
scrolling through hundreds of recent changes in more languages than I could pin 
on a map. My problem isn't merely that *way* WMF professionals are approaching 
the Chapters is less than optimal. My problem right now is that reason they are 
approaching the chapters at all seems greatly lacking in clue.

Decentralization isn't some random choice that somehow was attached to this 
movement; it is the only way the program functions at all. WMF professionals 
can't begin to account for the program work being accomplished by the movement. 
 Has there been a recent push to catalog local train stations on the Albanian 
Wikipedia or is the current trend of work translating articles from a larger 
Wikipedia? No one knows what is actually going on in all wikis. Only that 
something goes on. But why does it go on? Because all these people, who could 
never dream of all being able to speak to one another any more than they could 
stand to live in one another's cultures, all get a chance to comfortably make 
their mark on something that seems to matter. And they feel rightfully that 
this makes them a stakeholder in something that matters and perhaps also feel a 
little more securely about how much they themselves matter.  Recent changes 
doesn't move because of "the Wikipedia brand", nor because of how 
"professional" WMF is run, nor because someone that has no understanding of how 
the program work of Wikimedia is accomplished feels that a description of WMF 
operations fails his gut check. Recent changes moves because individuals feel 
empowered by Wikimedia websites.  Recent changes moves entirely based of human 
feelings of worth and power and changing those feelings can make it move faster 
or slower. And there is one overarching reason people click on the banners to 
donate $, and that is because they believe donating will keep website live and 
recent changes moving.  Everything WMF does, should be checked against how it 
either helps or hinders that. And it impossible to both centralize and empower 
disparate people at the same time.

Luckily most of people chugging along in RC don't really even understand what 
WMF is. And that was especially lucky a few years back. Sue has made WMF a 
GREAT deal less embarrassing than it once was.  But in some ways the 
professionals at WMF are so very far out of touch with how the Wikimedia 
program works that I don't even know how to begin encouraging them to 
reconsider.  Here is a try though. There is a blog called "Good Intentions are 
Not Enough" [1] written a woman that has done a lot of on-the-ground program 
work for aid organizations.  She talks about the keys to good aid and how the 
surest way to deliver "bad aid" is to design aid programs around what the 
donors want.  Donors want to build a new school, not fund teacher salaries.  
They want to build orphanages and they volunteer at them for their vacation, 
not subsidize poor families who are considering putting their children in an 
orphanage because they cannot feed them.  But good aid is unglamorous and for 
the most part uninspiring to donors.  Good aid makes the targeted recipients 
feel they are stakeholders in the program rather than charity cases.  Good aid 
is about empowering people much more than funding them. It is not about mapping 
out and planning an initiative that is easily understood and embraced by 
donors, it is about supporting those that are already doing things to make 
their slice of the world better to expand their efforts. Are chapters really 
these people who are already doing things to their slice of the world better? 
Not exactly. But they are at least planted in many different slices of the 
world, which makes them a giant step closer to such people than WMF, and what 
is more they at least have a decent shot at communicating with such people 
without disempowering them. I particularly think the post on this blog 
"Hamburgers for Hindus" does a good job drawing a distinction between 
"donor-led" programs and "owner-led" programs in a very quick read.[2] 

I hope WMF can learn embrace its roots as an "owner-led" organization and not 
forget what the real program work really is. 

BirgitteSB

[1] http://goodintents.org/
[2] http://goodintents.org/aid-recipient-concerns/hamburgers-for-hindus-2
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Re: [Foundation-l] Abigor Account

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 21:03, Huib Laurens  wrote:
> On WikiMania it was brought to my attention by a user that there is a
> account Abigor langcom. He asked me why I created that account...
>
> Since editting meta is blocked for me, I would like to state here after
> asking to a trusted user how I should react that this account is not created
> by me. And I would like to see it blocked (if not already done so) and a
> checkuser preformed so we can see who created it.

Actually, keeping *you* blocked might be a not so bad idea. Since
you've been blocked, your activity inside of LangCom raised a lot. And
I like that :P

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Milos Rancic]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 03:25, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> -- and it is likely that it will be the first result on Google [and
> other] search engines.

... for the search "Wikpedia Central Atlas Tamazight"

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Milos Rancic]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 03:13, M. Williamson  wrote:
> Yes but again as I said, most people will be looking for their languages on
> http://www.wikipedia.org/ or in places where interwiki links are usually
> found. How many out of the 5 million speakers of Central Atlas Tamazight do
> you think are aware that the ISO code for their language is TZM? Probably
> only 3 or 4 people, less than one one-millionth of the total population. So
> maybe it makes it easier for people who already know the test wiki exists,
> but what about people who doesn't? This doesn't help them.

"If you know Central Atlas Tamazight language you can start Wikipedia
." will stay on publicly searchable pages:
* http://tzm.wikipedia.org
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Atlas_Tamazight_language

-- and it is likely that it will be the first result on Google [and
other] search engines.

Besides that:
* Interwiki links are planned to exist.
* It shouldn't be so hard to add the ~100kb more on www.wikipedia.org
with proper "continue" links, similar to microblogging engines.

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[John Vandenberg]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 11:13 AM, M. Williamson  wrote:
> Yes but again as I said, most people will be looking for their languages on
> http://www.wikipedia.org/ or in places where interwiki links are usually
> found.

fwiw, the Wikisource portal lists all languages, inc. the languages in
the Wikisource incubator.

http://www.wikisource.org/

-- 
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[M. Williamson]

Yes but again as I said, most people will be looking for their languages on
http://www.wikipedia.org/ or in places where interwiki links are usually
found. How many out of the 5 million speakers of Central Atlas Tamazight do
you think are aware that the ISO code for their language is TZM? Probably
only 3 or 4 people, less than one one-millionth of the total population. So
maybe it makes it easier for people who already know the test wiki exists,
but what about people who doesn't? This doesn't help them.

2011/8/8 Milos Rancic 

> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 20:08, Casey Brown  wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Thomas Goldammer 
> wrote:
> >> That'd be great, indeed. But if there is an article in enwiki about
> >> that language, there is always also a link to the project(s), even if
> >> it is in the incubator, example:
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afar_language (it's near the bottom and
> >> on the right edge, though, so one might not see it easily). Maybe one
> >> could convince the communities to have such a link in other
> >> wikipediae, too...
> >
> > I was just going to bring that up too. :-)
> >
> > It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it's likely that if someone
> > were looking for a Wikipedia in their language, they'd probably type
> > it into Google. So if we type in "Central Morocco Tamazight
> > wikipedia", we get a link to
> >  in the first
> > result. They read more about what the article has to say, and then
> > they see the link at the bottom and click on it. Much fewer steps, and
> > at least a bit clearer/more logical.
> >
> > (This is actually what we do with many of the languages, at least on
> > enwiki. See French for example:
> > .)
>
> Yep. All those ideas are inside of the project on which Robins works:
> * xyz.wikipedia.org will be redirect for incubator.../wiki/wp/xyz
> * All existing ISO 639-3 codes will get their pages "If you know this
> language, please start to write Wikipedia." Although there would be
> some limitations. For example, just if we are sure that the content is
> written in particular language, it will get *full* redirects
> (http://xyz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Some_Page =>
> http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/wp/xyz/Some_Page). Without that,
> there will be just redirect to the main page.
> * I was thinking to ask en.wp (and other Wikipedian) communities to
> add a template similar to Incubator with note "If you know this
> language you can start Wikipedia by following this link."
>
> There are some problems with that; Robin told me that during
> Wikimania. But, AFAIK, that's going to be changed during the next
> months; likely up to the end of the year or so.
>
> BTW, I repeated the first two points a couple of times on this list
> since LangCom meeting in Berlin. And I am a bit surprised that we are
> passing it again. (It wouldn't be an issue if there are newcomers who
> wonders about it :P )
>
> During the next week or so I'll present here what's happened on
> Wikimania in relation to the languages.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Milos Rancic]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 20:08, Casey Brown  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Thomas Goldammer  
> wrote:
>> That'd be great, indeed. But if there is an article in enwiki about
>> that language, there is always also a link to the project(s), even if
>> it is in the incubator, example:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afar_language (it's near the bottom and
>> on the right edge, though, so one might not see it easily). Maybe one
>> could convince the communities to have such a link in other
>> wikipediae, too...
>
> I was just going to bring that up too. :-)
>
> It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it's likely that if someone
> were looking for a Wikipedia in their language, they'd probably type
> it into Google. So if we type in "Central Morocco Tamazight
> wikipedia", we get a link to
>  in the first
> result. They read more about what the article has to say, and then
> they see the link at the bottom and click on it. Much fewer steps, and
> at least a bit clearer/more logical.
>
> (This is actually what we do with many of the languages, at least on
> enwiki. See French for example:
> .)

Yep. All those ideas are inside of the project on which Robins works:
* xyz.wikipedia.org will be redirect for incubator.../wiki/wp/xyz
* All existing ISO 639-3 codes will get their pages "If you know this
language, please start to write Wikipedia." Although there would be
some limitations. For example, just if we are sure that the content is
written in particular language, it will get *full* redirects
(http://xyz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Some_Page =>
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/wp/xyz/Some_Page). Without that,
there will be just redirect to the main page.
* I was thinking to ask en.wp (and other Wikipedian) communities to
add a template similar to Incubator with note "If you know this
language you can start Wikipedia by following this link."

There are some problems with that; Robin told me that during
Wikimania. But, AFAIK, that's going to be changed during the next
months; likely up to the end of the year or so.

BTW, I repeated the first two points a couple of times on this list
since LangCom meeting in Berlin. And I am a bit surprised that we are
passing it again. (It wouldn't be an issue if there are newcomers who
wonders about it :P )

During the next week or so I'll present here what's happened on
Wikimania in relation to the languages.

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[M. Williamson]

I have a feeling very, very, very few French speakers find the French
Wikipedia through that route. Most people probably find a Wikipedia in their
language at http://www.wikipedia.org/ if they don't already know the URL. I
doubt many speakers will google "Central Atlas Tamazight Wikipedia" in
English like that. I think there are probably also some who find it on a
main page of a larger wiki, or notice it in the interwiki links of an
article they're reading (however, as the number of interwiki links at each
article grows, this option becomes less likely).

So of course none of these mechanisms allows for someone to find Incubator.
http://www.wikipedia.org/ should have a prominently-placed link for people
whose language is not listed (not sure how to do that language-neutrally
though), allowing them to look for it at incubator, and if it's not there,
direct them to a USER FRIENDLY request system (our current one is not) so
they can request a new wiki in their language and start working on a
testwiki.

Main pages of projects should also link to incubator just like they link to
Wikiquote, Wikisource, Wikispecies, etc., if not placing the link even more
prominently than that.

2011/8/8 Casey Brown 

> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Thomas Goldammer 
> wrote:
> > That'd be great, indeed. But if there is an article in enwiki about
> > that language, there is always also a link to the project(s), even if
> > it is in the incubator, example:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afar_language (it's near the bottom and
> > on the right edge, though, so one might not see it easily). Maybe one
> > could convince the communities to have such a link in other
> > wikipediae, too...
>
> I was just going to bring that up too. :-)
>
> It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it's likely that if someone
> were looking for a Wikipedia in their language, they'd probably type
> it into Google. So if we type in "Central Morocco Tamazight
> wikipedia", we get a link to
>  in the first
> result. They read more about what the article has to say, and then
> they see the link at the bottom and click on it. Much fewer steps, and
> at least a bit clearer/more logical.
>
> (This is actually what we do with many of the languages, at least on
> enwiki. See French for example:
> .)
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
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The Signpost – Volume 7, Issue 32 – 08 August 2011

[jarry]

[I apologise to everyone for sending the wrong issue before. This was an 
oversight on my part. This is the correct issue -- Jarry1250.]

Wikimania: Seventh annual Wikimedia conference concluded in Haifa, Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-08/Wikimania

News and notes: Wikimania a success; board letter controversial; and evidence 
showing bitten newbies don't stay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-08/News_and_notes

In the news: Israeli news focusses on Wikimania; worldwide coverage of 
contributor decline and gender gap; brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-08/In_the_news

WikiProject report: Shooting the breeze with WikiProject Firearms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-08/WikiProject_report

Featured content: The best of the week
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-08/Featured_content

Arbitration report: Manipulation of BLPs case opened; one case comes to a close
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-08/Arbitration_report

Technology report: Wikimania technology roundup; brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-08/Technology_report


Single page view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signpost/Single

PDF version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-07-25


http://identi.ca/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost
--
Wikipedia Signpost Staff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost

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Re: [Foundation-l] Sending announcements to this list

[Thomas Dalton]

On 9 August 2011 01:24, Michael Peel  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just to check: I've been assuming of late that everyone that's interested in 
> reading announcements (including things like chapter reports, committee 
> reports and signpost issues) is subscribed to the wikimediaannounce-l mailing 
> list - is that a valid assumption, or should reports continue to be sent to 
> this list?

I'm not subscribed to the announcements list. The idea was that
everything that goes to the announcements list would also go here (as
would replies to anything on the announcements list). That was
supposed to be automatic, but I think there were some problems getting
it to work. Could someone have another go? There must be some way to
do it... (if you can't just subscribe one list to the other, how about
creating a new email address that just forwards everything to
foundation-l and subscribing that to the announcements list?)

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[Foundation-l] Sending announcements to this list

[Michael Peel]

Hi all,

Just to check: I've been assuming of late that everyone that's interested in 
reading announcements (including things like chapter reports, committee reports 
and signpost issues) is subscribed to the wikimediaannounce-l mailing list - is 
that a valid assumption, or should reports continue to be sent to this list?

Thanks,
Mike Peel
(who sends out WMUK reports, amongst occasional others)


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Re: [Foundation-l] The Signpost – Volume 7, Issue 32 – 08 August 2011

[Nathan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost

Main link goes to the current version.

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The Signpost – Volume 7, Issue 32 – 08 August 2011

[jarry]

News and notes: Wikimania; why Board of Trustees elections attract few votes; 
brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/News_and_notes

In the news: Consensus of Wikipedia authors questioned about Shakespeare 
authorship; 10 biggest edit wars on Wikipedia; brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/In_the_news

Research interview: The Huggle Experiment: interview with the research team
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Research_interview

WikiProject report: Little Project, Big Heart — WikiProject Croatia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/WikiProject_report

Featured content: Featured pictures is back in town
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Featured_content

Arbitration report: Proposed decision submitted for one case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Arbitration_report

Technology report: Developers descend on Haifa; wikitech-l discussions; brief 
news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Technology_report


Single page view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signpost/Single

PDF version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-07-25


http://identi.ca/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost
--
Wikipedia Signpost Staff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost

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Re: [Foundation-l] The Signpost – Volume 7, Issue 32 – 08 August 2011

[Strainu]

Forgot to change the content? :P

2011/8/9 jarry :
> News and notes: Wikimania; why Board of Trustees elections attract few votes; 
> brief news
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/News_and_notes
>
> In the news: Consensus of Wikipedia authors questioned about Shakespeare 
> authorship; 10 biggest edit wars on Wikipedia; brief news
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/In_the_news
>
> Research interview: The Huggle Experiment: interview with the research team
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Research_interview
>
> WikiProject report: Little Project, Big Heart — WikiProject Croatia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/WikiProject_report
>
> Featured content: Featured pictures is back in town
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Featured_content
>
> Arbitration report: Proposed decision submitted for one case
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Arbitration_report
>
> Technology report: Developers descend on Haifa; wikitech-l discussions; brief 
> news
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Technology_report
>
>
> Single page view
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signpost/Single
>
> PDF version
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-07-25
>
>
> http://identi.ca/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost
> --
> Wikipedia Signpost Staff
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost
>
>
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The Signpost – Volume 7, Issue 32 – 08 August 2011

[jarry]

News and notes: Wikimania; why Board of Trustees elections attract few votes; 
brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/News_and_notes

In the news: Consensus of Wikipedia authors questioned about Shakespeare 
authorship; 10 biggest edit wars on Wikipedia; brief news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/In_the_news

Research interview: The Huggle Experiment: interview with the research team
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Research_interview

WikiProject report: Little Project, Big Heart — WikiProject Croatia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/WikiProject_report

Featured content: Featured pictures is back in town
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Featured_content

Arbitration report: Proposed decision submitted for one case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Arbitration_report

Technology report: Developers descend on Haifa; wikitech-l discussions; brief 
news
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-08-01/Technology_report


Single page view
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signpost/Single

PDF version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-07-25


http://identi.ca/wikisignpost / https://twitter.com/wikisignpost
--
Wikipedia Signpost Staff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost

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[Foundation-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia Announcements] Language committee report - July 2011

[Milos Rancic]

This one short. The next one will be much longer :)


-- Forwarded message --
From: Robin Pepermans 
Date: Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 23:11
Subject: [Wikimedia Announcements] Language committee report - July 2011
To: the Wikimedia Incubator ,
wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org


See the wiki version here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee/Reports/2011-07

This is the language committee report for July 2011, written in Haifa,
Israel (Wikimania 2011) thanks to the scholarship provided to me by
the Catalan Associació Amical Viquipèdia.

=== Committee ===
Some talk about membership of the LangCom and closing projects.

=== Approvals ===
The Mingrelian Wikipedia (xmf.wikipedia.org) has been created.

=== Eligibility ===
Discussion about the request for a Wikipedia in Tunisian Arabic.

=== Related ===
Thanks to Ryan Kaldari
(),
the Wikimedia Foundation is now an official liaison member of the
Unicode Consortium.

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Casey Brown]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Thomas Goldammer  wrote:
> That'd be great, indeed. But if there is an article in enwiki about
> that language, there is always also a link to the project(s), even if
> it is in the incubator, example:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afar_language (it's near the bottom and
> on the right edge, though, so one might not see it easily). Maybe one
> could convince the communities to have such a link in other
> wikipediae, too...

I was just going to bring that up too. :-)

It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it's likely that if someone
were looking for a Wikipedia in their language, they'd probably type
it into Google. So if we type in "Central Morocco Tamazight
wikipedia", we get a link to
 in the first
result. They read more about what the article has to say, and then
they see the link at the bottom and click on it. Much fewer steps, and
at least a bit clearer/more logical.

(This is actually what we do with many of the languages, at least on
enwiki. See French for example:
.)

-- 
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiConference-India 2011] Oral Citations mentioned in the New York Times

[Béria Lima]

cross-posting
_
*Béria Lima*
(351) 925 171 484

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer .*


On 8 August 2011 17:00, Ashwin Baindur  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am a subscriber to NYT online for almost ten years (its free so far at
> least but about to change). I was most pleasantly surprised to find this :
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/08/business/media/a-push-to-redefine-knowledge-at-wikipedia.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha26
>
> Great exposure & great publicity.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> --
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 89, Issue 13

[Robin McCain]

On 8/8/2011 12:41 AM, foundation-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
> The problem with Incubator: An interactive
>   journey
Written by geeks for geeks...

If you are truly serious about enabling new languages & dialects, it is 
almost mandatory to include a link at the very top level of Wiki/Pedia/ 
like the "other languages" line on the_main wikipedia home page_ that 
will take you directly to the incubator instructions, etc.

Otherwise it will languish until a true geek walks the twisted path.
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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Thomas Goldammer]

That'd be great, indeed. But if there is an article in enwiki about
that language, there is always also a link to the project(s), even if
it is in the incubator, example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afar_language (it's near the bottom and
on the right edge, though, so one might not see it easily). Maybe one
could convince the communities to have such a link in other
wikipediae, too...

BR
Th.

2011/8/8 Nathan :
> People probably won't know the ISO codes,  but a redirect is the
> obvious first step. The second might be, if you do a search for
> "Central Morocco Tamazight" a pointer comes up saying "Are you looking
> for the projects in this language?"

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Nathan]

People probably won't know the ISO codes,  but a redirect is the
obvious first step. The second might be, if you do a search for
"Central Morocco Tamazight" a pointer comes up saying "Are you looking
for the projects in this language?"

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Thomas Goldammer]

But that only includes wikis hosted on the incubator wiki, right? What
about the wikis that already exist?

BR
Th.

2011/8/8 Huib Laurens :
> There is a complete list here:
> http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Wikis I guess it would be easy
> to add a status to it... And link the meta pages back to the list.
>

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Huib Laurens]

There is a complete list here:
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incubator:Wikis I guess it would be easy
to add a status to it... And link the meta pages back to the list.

2011/8/8 Thomas Goldammer 

> There should be a general overview page where all projects are listed
> with a very short description in the respective languages and a status
> ("open", "under supervision", "closed", "in preparation" or what else
> you get), could be hosted on Meta. And this "Wikimedia projects
> summary" or such can be prominently linked from the main pages, like
> "there are Wikipedias in xxx languages, find out more HERE" or
> something accordingly in the other projects.
>
> BR
> Th.
>
> 2011/8/8 M. Williamson :
> > This is an improvement in many ways, but how does it help the average
> user?
> > How are people supposed to know that XYZ code points to XYZ language?
> Right
> > now we don't have any high-traffic pages pointing to incubator; it seems
> > less likely that say, en.wp main page will link to every single test
> wiki.
>
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-- 
Kind regards,

Huib Laurens
WickedWay.nl

Webhosting the wicked way.
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[Foundation-l] Intellectual property policy for open organisations

[John Vandenberg]

There are an increasing number of organisations which have indicated
that their output is Creative Commons by default, however there are
not as many that have a public IP policy which clearly allows staff to
publish "their" work.

i.e. We have moved from the IP policy being the stick used to prevent
openness, and the "work for hire" and "publish process" are the next
frontier.

A few staff at University of Canberra (UC) have written an IP policy
proposal which clearly gives staff ownership of their work, and
requires CC licensing if their staff use organisational infrastructure
to create their work.

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/University_of_Canberra/Proposed_policy_on_intellectual_property

Otago Polytechnic adopted an IP policy like that in 2007.

http://wikieducator.org/Otago_Polytechnic/Intellectual_property

Are there other examples, within or outside academia, where the
organisation empowers its staff by providing a policy which clarifies
when "work for hire" principle is enforced in this murky world of
online collaboration?

Does the WMF have an intellectual property policy for works created by
WMF employees?
Employees edit and upload using free licenses under their own name,
but does the copyright belong to the employee or to the WMF?

Is anyone in our community going to:

Global Congress on Intellectual Property and the Public Interest

Washington College of Law
American University, Washington, DC
August 25-27, 2011

http://infojustice.org/public-events/global-congress

-- 
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Thomas Goldammer]

There should be a general overview page where all projects are listed
with a very short description in the respective languages and a status
("open", "under supervision", "closed", "in preparation" or what else
you get), could be hosted on Meta. And this "Wikimedia projects
summary" or such can be prominently linked from the main pages, like
"there are Wikipedias in xxx languages, find out more HERE" or
something accordingly in the other projects.

BR
Th.

2011/8/8 M. Williamson :
> This is an improvement in many ways, but how does it help the average user?
> How are people supposed to know that XYZ code points to XYZ language? Right
> now we don't have any high-traffic pages pointing to incubator; it seems
> less likely that say, en.wp main page will link to every single test wiki.

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[M. Williamson]

This is an improvement in many ways, but how does it help the average user?
How are people supposed to know that XYZ code points to XYZ language? Right
now we don't have any high-traffic pages pointing to incubator; it seems
less likely that say, en.wp main page will link to every single test wiki.


2011/8/8 Huib Laurens 

> SPQRobin is already working on a extension that will point
> xxx.wikipedia.org to the right place on Incubator. The first version
> is already deployed and he showed me the new version on WikiMania.
>
>
> I'm not sure how long it will take, when wmf staff will help him out
> it will take less time. But a beter version is being worked on.
>
>
> 2011/8/8, Thomas Goldammer :
> > Maybe a new system of "incubation" would be helpful. For example, one
> > could start the requested wikis on their future domain
> > (xxx.wikipedia.org / xxx.wiktionary.org etc.pp.) right from the
> > request, with at least two voluntary experienced supervisors on each
> > (one can supervise more than one of these of course) who get sysop and
> > crat rights and stay there as long as it takes to get the approval of
> > LangCom for an independent wiki (that is, after translating the most
> > important parts of the MW software and that stuff). With email
> > notification, the community of the test project can easily reach the
> > supervisors and they of course should be in the wiki on a daily basis
> > to look that everything is ok there. In the best case, they could try
> > to attract more native speakers of the language to work there. Then a
> > closing request for a wiki that became inactive would just be a
> > request for supervision of that wiki. That means, the wiki stays where
> > it is, but gets two supervisors who take on the administrative tasks
> > and start some promotion maybe. Well, it's just an idea.
> >
> > BR
> > Th.
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
> --
> Verzonden vanaf mijn mobiele apparaat
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Huib Laurens
> WickedWay.nl
>
> Webhosting the wicked way.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Huib Laurens]

I'm not sure about interwiki's

if the project xxx.wikipedia.org/wiki/article will point to
incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/wp/xxx/article I guess it would be possible to
use the [[:xxx:]] interwiki? Cuz it wouldn't directly point the incubator.
So I guess it would be possible... But some changes need to be done in the
interwiki.py maybe? It doesn't sounds really impossible to me...



2011/8/8 Thomas Goldammer 

> Well, that idea also came to my mind (I didn't know that someone is
> already working on it), but then interwikis wouldn't be possible,
> would they? I think interwiki links are not unimportant to get native
> or fluent speakers of a language to a wiki who are currently working
> on other wikis. If they are working on enwiki already, for example,
> and discover that there is an article about their topics in their own
> language (or a language they are fluent in), they might go there and
> maybe improve the article and stay for more work. (I mean I did react
> like this when I discovered some articles about my topics on enwiki,
> maybe others wouldn't... ^^)
>
> But for starters, the redirect thing will work, too. One had to make
> sure that these wikis are properly listed and linked to in as many
> places as possible so that the wiki-finding problems M. Williamson has
> pointed out are solved.
>
> BR
> Th.
>
> 2011/8/8 Huib Laurens :
> > SPQRobin is already working on a extension that will point
> > xxx.wikipedia.org to the right place on Incubator. The first version
> > is already deployed and he showed me the new version on WikiMania.
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure how long it will take, when wmf staff will help him out
> > it will take less time. But a beter version is being worked on.
> >
>
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Webhosting the wicked way.
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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Thomas Goldammer]

Well, that idea also came to my mind (I didn't know that someone is
already working on it), but then interwikis wouldn't be possible,
would they? I think interwiki links are not unimportant to get native
or fluent speakers of a language to a wiki who are currently working
on other wikis. If they are working on enwiki already, for example,
and discover that there is an article about their topics in their own
language (or a language they are fluent in), they might go there and
maybe improve the article and stay for more work. (I mean I did react
like this when I discovered some articles about my topics on enwiki,
maybe others wouldn't... ^^)

But for starters, the redirect thing will work, too. One had to make
sure that these wikis are properly listed and linked to in as many
places as possible so that the wiki-finding problems M. Williamson has
pointed out are solved.

BR
Th.

2011/8/8 Huib Laurens :
> SPQRobin is already working on a extension that will point
> xxx.wikipedia.org to the right place on Incubator. The first version
> is already deployed and he showed me the new version on WikiMania.
>
>
> I'm not sure how long it will take, when wmf staff will help him out
> it will take less time. But a beter version is being worked on.
>

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Huib Laurens]

SPQRobin is already working on a extension that will point
xxx.wikipedia.org to the right place on Incubator. The first version
is already deployed and he showed me the new version on WikiMania.


I'm not sure how long it will take, when wmf staff will help him out
it will take less time. But a beter version is being worked on.


2011/8/8, Thomas Goldammer :
> Maybe a new system of "incubation" would be helpful. For example, one
> could start the requested wikis on their future domain
> (xxx.wikipedia.org / xxx.wiktionary.org etc.pp.) right from the
> request, with at least two voluntary experienced supervisors on each
> (one can supervise more than one of these of course) who get sysop and
> crat rights and stay there as long as it takes to get the approval of
> LangCom for an independent wiki (that is, after translating the most
> important parts of the MW software and that stuff). With email
> notification, the community of the test project can easily reach the
> supervisors and they of course should be in the wiki on a daily basis
> to look that everything is ok there. In the best case, they could try
> to attract more native speakers of the language to work there. Then a
> closing request for a wiki that became inactive would just be a
> request for supervision of that wiki. That means, the wiki stays where
> it is, but gets two supervisors who take on the administrative tasks
> and start some promotion maybe. Well, it's just an idea.
>
> BR
> Th.
>
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Verzonden vanaf mijn mobiele apparaat

Kind regards,

Huib Laurens
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Webhosting the wicked way.

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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[M. Williamson]

This is of course essentially what we did in the Good Old Days, but somebody
(or somebodies?) decided we needed More Rules, so now we have them, and as
is often the case with too many rules, they've constricted what was once a
free-flowing process and limited almost all new wikis to a very small
geographical area: Europe, Russian Federation and Indonesia with only a
couple of outliers, and for little observable benefit, as far as I can tell.

2011/8/8 Thomas Goldammer 

> Maybe a new system of "incubation" would be helpful. For example, one
> could start the requested wikis on their future domain
> (xxx.wikipedia.org / xxx.wiktionary.org etc.pp.) right from the
> request, with at least two voluntary experienced supervisors on each
> (one can supervise more than one of these of course) who get sysop and
> crat rights and stay there as long as it takes to get the approval of
> LangCom for an independent wiki (that is, after translating the most
> important parts of the MW software and that stuff). With email
> notification, the community of the test project can easily reach the
> supervisors and they of course should be in the wiki on a daily basis
> to look that everything is ok there. In the best case, they could try
> to attract more native speakers of the language to work there. Then a
> closing request for a wiki that became inactive would just be a
> request for supervision of that wiki. That means, the wiki stays where
> it is, but gets two supervisors who take on the administrative tasks
> and start some promotion maybe. Well, it's just an idea.
>
> BR
> Th.
>
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Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with Incubator: An interactive journey

[Thomas Goldammer]

Maybe a new system of "incubation" would be helpful. For example, one
could start the requested wikis on their future domain
(xxx.wikipedia.org / xxx.wiktionary.org etc.pp.) right from the
request, with at least two voluntary experienced supervisors on each
(one can supervise more than one of these of course) who get sysop and
crat rights and stay there as long as it takes to get the approval of
LangCom for an independent wiki (that is, after translating the most
important parts of the MW software and that stuff). With email
notification, the community of the test project can easily reach the
supervisors and they of course should be in the wiki on a daily basis
to look that everything is ok there. In the best case, they could try
to attract more native speakers of the language to work there. Then a
closing request for a wiki that became inactive would just be a
request for supervision of that wiki. That means, the wiki stays where
it is, but gets two supervisors who take on the administrative tasks
and start some promotion maybe. Well, it's just an idea.

BR
Th.

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