Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:39 AM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind, before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it is something we should seek actively? The strategic plan and individual board members covered this issue in passing several times, but as far as I know, there is no official community-ratified outline or policy to warrant an active involvement at this stage. Issues like SOPA are rare, they come up once in a while. It was the only one of its kind that required such strong action in the last few years I can remember. I'm not sure if an advocacy department already, is a good thing. Especially, if actions like the Italian Wikipedia blackout prove that local communities are quiet capable of doing this on their own, without the involvement or even the knowledge of WMF. The issue with SOPA blackout was different, the communication from WMF was constantly that it is the community's decision, and the foundation will support what the community decides. There was a quick vote and not long after, a blackout. Then the impression seems to have shifted that it was WMF who took that decision, and everyone agreed. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Advocacy is a sensitive area. I really think if we venture too far into this territory, we might loose our neutrality. Encyclopedias, historically have little to do with politics and political advocacy, the only exception that can be agreed upon is, related to things that affect the existence and pursuit of the mission. Those are quiet rare to warrant an entire department already. I think you are confusing rare with first. This was merely the OPENing salvo of a long and protracted battle to protect wikimedia and the internets and particularly and espescially up and coming internet entrepeneurs from draconian internet/IP legislation and international treaties. This will now, once started, last years if not decades, and we have to stand fast. It isn't our neutrality that is at stake, it is our very existence, and our ability to stay neutral under pressure from governments. -- -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I think we'll be doing some combination of all three of those. But here's the important part: you tell us. I built out the brainstorming page: people are acting as though there's a determined course charted for this team - if anything, it's the opposite. This is the opportunity for the community to tell us how you'd like to be supported by this team. From the ground floor, help us design it. Tell us what will work best. Do we need more Maggies? Do we need someone to help us track issues of free culture? Maybe we don't, because the community has a process in place for that and we just don't know about it. Help us design the team, and its high level goals. We have what we THINK some of those will be (they're on the page, but I've pasted them here [1], also)... but we're open to the community's input - actually, we're begging for it. Edit this team, and edit this plan. :-) pb [1]- - * Maintaining a proactive online content-protection strategy, defending the written and media work of the community on the Projects through litigation and other means with the involvement of the community; * Ensuring increasing amounts and efficacy of global community participation in WMF-generated initiatives (such as revisions to WMF policies); * Setting up international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms, checkusers, OTRS, etc.); * Providing international legislative and policy support to the community, such as providing information about legislative issues of interest like global censorship laws; and * Creating and learning from a community-based advisory board, including implementation of support ideas that serve the advocacy interests of the community and Foundation. On Thu Feb 9 23:42:23 2012, Lodewijk wrote: I must say that after reading all this and the detailed page with the beautiful graphic I am still confused what the department will actually do. There are beautiful abstract goals which everybody would obviously agree with, and there are highly diverse skills involved from on one end Maggie and on the other extreme Geoff. All great. But I hope you can help me by summarizing in one or two sentences of mortal English what you will *do* everyday. Will you be the ones executing decisions from Legal? Will you be nutshelling community decisions and act like an ambassador to the Wikimedia Foundation? Will you be working on guiding the community involvement processes Geoff handled so well with the Terms of Use? Thanks, Lodewijk No dia 10 de Fevereiro de 2012 07:46, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.comescreveu: On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth. Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we should be choosing simple, crisp clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn the chart on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have very little time and interest to parse it. I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be utilized and further advertised in coming days: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll generate lots of tangible value for the community. Then my suggestion would be, rename the department. I completely agree, it is about time Philippe and Maggie get more authority and a dedicated department. I am happy for both of them. They actually do and have been doing the heavy lifting for years when it comes to the community. I would actually be more in favor of calling their department the community department. ;) Regards Theo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Hi Philippe, it sounds great. Awesome. But still, it doesn't make much sense to me, sorry. Saying people can 'edit' is of course bound to cheer people up - but if you don't understand *what* you're editing, it is also bound to either become a mess, or either just become what you pick it to become. I can't suggest changes to team or actions if I am unable to grasp behind the very broadly stated goals. Right now it is clear who is in the team, but honestly I don't know you guys well enough to derive from that what you should be doing. Lodewijk No dia 10 de Fevereiro de 2012 08:54, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org escreveu: I think we'll be doing some combination of all three of those. But here's the important part: you tell us. I built out the brainstorming page: people are acting as though there's a determined course charted for this team - if anything, it's the opposite. This is the opportunity for the community to tell us how you'd like to be supported by this team. From the ground floor, help us design it. Tell us what will work best. Do we need more Maggies? Do we need someone to help us track issues of free culture? Maybe we don't, because the community has a process in place for that and we just don't know about it. Help us design the team, and its high level goals. We have what we THINK some of those will be (they're on the page, but I've pasted them here [1], also)... but we're open to the community's input - actually, we're begging for it. Edit this team, and edit this plan. :-) pb [1]- - * Maintaining a proactive online content-protection strategy, defending the written and media work of the community on the Projects through litigation and other means with the involvement of the community; * Ensuring increasing amounts and efficacy of global community participation in WMF-generated initiatives (such as revisions to WMF policies); * Setting up international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms, checkusers, OTRS, etc.); * Providing international legislative and policy support to the community, such as providing information about legislative issues of interest like global censorship laws; and * Creating and learning from a community-based advisory board, including implementation of support ideas that serve the advocacy interests of the community and Foundation. On Thu Feb 9 23:42:23 2012, Lodewijk wrote: I must say that after reading all this and the detailed page with the beautiful graphic I am still confused what the department will actually do. There are beautiful abstract goals which everybody would obviously agree with, and there are highly diverse skills involved from on one end Maggie and on the other extreme Geoff. All great. But I hope you can help me by summarizing in one or two sentences of mortal English what you will *do* everyday. Will you be the ones executing decisions from Legal? Will you be nutshelling community decisions and act like an ambassador to the Wikimedia Foundation? Will you be working on guiding the community involvement processes Geoff handled so well with the Terms of Use? Thanks, Lodewijk No dia 10 de Fevereiro de 2012 07:46, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com escreveu: On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth. Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we should be choosing simple, crisp clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn the chart on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have very little time and interest to parse it. I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be utilized and further advertised in coming days: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy Congratulations to
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Then my suggestion would be, rename the department. I think the name's pretty spot-on, actually: advocating on behalf of the community. It's the elucidation of that concept that needs to happen to avoid confusion. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Hi All, Firstly, congratulations to Phillipe on a very richly deserved promotion! I'm sure that you will do very well in your new role. However, I must concur with Lodewijk in stating that the idea behind the new department is still not entirely clear to me. It's not about advocacy and lobbying (except when it is), but I'm not sure what else it is supposed to do or why it's organisationally near the legal department? If the purpose is primarily to advocate on behalf of the community internally within WMF, would that be because you feel that the voice of the community has not been heard clearly in the Foundation previously? If so, this is a step forward but it's regrettable that input from the community hasn't been something that's been institutionally considered in the past. Cheers, Craig From: Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org To: phili...@wikimedia.org Cc: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette Message-ID: CACf6BesiWT8F+4JsdV_=yf++do-jhszhxmztar-favg-vyp...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Philippe, it sounds great. Awesome. But still, it doesn't make much sense to me, sorry. Saying people can 'edit' is of course bound to cheer people up - but if you don't understand *what* you're editing, it is also bound to either become a mess, or either just become what you pick it to become. I can't suggest changes to team or actions if I am unable to grasp behind the very broadly stated goals. Right now it is clear who is in the team, but honestly I don't know you guys well enough to derive from that what you should be doing. Lodewijk ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
The name is misleading and confusing as best. This very conversation proves it. In consequence, the naming is bad. On behalf of the community, but do you have even community approval? I'd like to read the strategical report of your consulting firm about this move, just to know on what predictions and goals it was motivated. Le 10/02/2012 06:10, Erik Moeller a écrit : On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Then my suggestion would be, rename the department. I think the name's pretty spot-on, actually: advocating on behalf of the community. It's the elucidation of that concept that needs to happen to avoid confusion. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I just want to put in a bit of my opinion. This is simply my opinion. I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone else in the department or at WMF. :) Certainly, advocacy can be read as externally facing, and sometimes it is. For instance, in the recent case of the takedown notice for the article Tonga, advocating for the community meant pointing out to the publisher their error, that the content they were trying to protect was actually public domain. (see: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/DMCA_Tonga) This matter is also one of advocating for the community with external forces: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Loriot_Signature_Background. Sometimes, the support needed is internal. For instance, the legal department is currently researching questions related to copyright matters to help craft community policies (by community request) on both Commons and English Wikipedia. As people have pointed out, SOPA was an incredibly rare event, and so was the action taken against it. There's no reason to think that future actions in this vein won't be similarly rare. As I've been serving as the Community Liaison for the Foundation since May, it makes perfect sense to me that the two departments should work together officially, because the work has been interconnected as long as I've been onboard. I have been tasked to get assistance from the legal department more than any other department or group in Wikimedia. And any OTRS agent who works quality concerns knows that reader issues (which often winds up meaning article subject issues) sometimes wind up needing legal review. Philippe, legal and the community have been coordinating on these, I understand, for quite some time. In terms of the institutional consideration of the voice of the community, I think the fact that the Wikimedia Foundation has hired not one, but two editors to bring community perspective to the Foundation's work speaks to their interest in community perspectives. :) Not that I kid myself in thinking that their hiring me last May was an aha moment (nor their conceiving and advertising for the Community Liaison role). But it does highlight that is not a new consideration. Maggie On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Craig Franklin cr...@halo-17.net wrote: Hi All, Firstly, congratulations to Phillipe on a very richly deserved promotion! I'm sure that you will do very well in your new role. However, I must concur with Lodewijk in stating that the idea behind the new department is still not entirely clear to me. It's not about advocacy and lobbying (except when it is), but I'm not sure what else it is supposed to do or why it's organisationally near the legal department? If the purpose is primarily to advocate on behalf of the community internally within WMF, would that be because you feel that the voice of the community has not been heard clearly in the Foundation previously? If so, this is a step forward but it's regrettable that input from the community hasn't been something that's been institutionally considered in the past. Cheers, Craig From: Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org To: phili...@wikimedia.org Cc: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette Message-ID: CACf6BesiWT8F+4JsdV_=yf++do-jhszhxmztar-favg-vyp...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Philippe, it sounds great. Awesome. But still, it doesn't make much sense to me, sorry. Saying people can 'edit' is of course bound to cheer people up - but if you don't understand *what* you're editing, it is also bound to either become a mess, or either just become what you pick it to become. I can't suggest changes to team or actions if I am unable to grasp behind the very broadly stated goals. Right now it is clear who is in the team, but honestly I don't know you guys well enough to derive from that what you should be doing. Lodewijk ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Maggie Dennis Community Liaison WikimediaFoundation.org ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On 9 February 2012 23:49, Geoff Brigham gbrig...@wikimedia.org wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the “Legal and Community Advocacy Department.” This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I’m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. Fantastic news. Congratulations, Philippe! Yours, -- James D. Forrester jdforres...@wikimedia.org | jdforres...@gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I think the better question is what will this department actually do? On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On 10 February 2012 02:32, Mono monom...@gmail.com wrote: I think the better question is what will this department actually do? For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.; ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Obviously, we have some ideas - several of them are listed in the announcement page. However, one of the most exciting bits of this is that since it's a community advocacy department, we're asking you to help us define that. There's a page on meta (also linked from the announcement page), and an IRC chat tomorrow to kick that off. :) pb On Thu Feb 9 18:32:42 2012, Mono wrote: I think the better question is what will this department actually do? On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be (in part) focusing on ...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions that support our movement. but it also says that you'll be Setting up international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms, checkusers, OTRS, etc.). Finally, it also says This change will transfer the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and fundraising strategy and implementation. From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the *existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it) and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.). This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users and on the annual fundraiser. Is that a fair assessment? Peace, love metadata On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Quite right, inasmuch as any of our jobs can work in that much of an insular fashion. We'll do quite a bit of dealing with the external community (defending takedown challenges, etc), but you're quite right that it's in a posture of focusing on the existing community. However, our hope is that through this, we can encourage further organic growth of the community, as well as protect the community that we have. pb On 2/9/12 6:35 PM, Liam Wyatt wrote: I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be (in part) focusing on ...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions that support our movement. but it also says that you'll be Setting up international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms, checkusers, OTRS, etc.). Finally, it also says This change will transfer the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and fundraising strategy and implementation. From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the *existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it) and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.). This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users and on the annual fundraiser. Is that a fair assessment? Peace, love metadata On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I believe Liam puts it very close to how I read the announcement. Does this mean Pb is a Chief now? or will that department still be under community/Zack? Also, how does the relation between legal come into this. Is Geoff also in charge of this department or is legal separate from this? And before I forget, Congratulations Pb! Regards Theo On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote: I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be (in part) focusing on ...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions that support our movement. but it also says that you'll be Setting up international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms, checkusers, OTRS, etc.). Finally, it also says This change will transfer the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and fundraising strategy and implementation. From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the *existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it) and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.). This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users and on the annual fundraiser. Is that a fair assessment? Peace, love metadata On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org wrote: I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
No, I report to Geoff. Geoff is the Chief for the legal and community advocacy department. I run the C.A. side of it. :-) On Thu Feb 9 18:48:34 2012, Theo10011 wrote: I believe Liam puts it very close to how I read the announcement. Does this mean Pb is a Chief now? or will that department still be under community/Zack? Also, how does the relation between legal come into this. Is Geoff also in charge of this department or is legal separate from this? And before I forget, Congratulations Pb! Regards Theo On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote: I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be (in part) focusing on ...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions that support our movement. but it also says that you'll be Setting up international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms, checkusers, OTRS, etc.). Finally, it also says This change will transfer the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and fundraising strategy and implementation. From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the *existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it) and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.). This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users and on the annual fundraiser. Is that a fair assessment? Peace, love metadata On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org wrote: I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Geoff Brigham wrote: Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details, please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement. As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new department at full speed. The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours. A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote: I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement. pb Well, what do fighting for content online, providing information about legislative initiatives worldwide that impact online content and censorship, and support the advancement of legal conditions that enable unimpeded access to information online, worldwide mean? Is this program not in one way or another the result and an extension of the recent SOPA blackout? We have found that our community has a keen interest in legal and legislative issues (and the policy makers in those areas return the interest), so we would like to explore new ways to support better the community within the goals of the Foundation. We want to improve our communication with international communities, ensuring that the voice of the global community is heard on important initiatives. How does this not mean that Wikimedia will in part be a lobbying organisation? Or in other words, how can you advocate effectively for favourable legal conditions without involving lobbying and politics? A. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On 2/9/12 7:19 PM, Andreas K. wrote: Well, what do fighting for content online, providing information about legislative initiatives worldwide that impact online content and censorship, and support the advancement of legal conditions that enable unimpeded access to information online, worldwide mean? Fighting for content online includes thing such as pushing back against DMCA takedowns, etc. Providing information about legislative initiatives is just that - making sure that our community is aware of things that are going on. More specifically, building (from within the community) the ability to track that sort of thing. That's an area where crowdsourcing works very very well. Is this program not in one way or another the result and an extension of the recent SOPA blackout? No. It was conceived of prior to that, in fact. We have found that our community has a keen interest in legal and legislative issues (and the policy makers in those areas return the interest), so we would like to explore new ways to support better the community within the goals of the Foundation. We want to improve our communication with international communities, ensuring that the voice of the global community is heard on important initiatives. How does this not mean that Wikimedia will in part be a lobbying organisation? Or in other words, how can you advocate effectively for favourable legal conditions without involving lobbying and politics? By providing our community with the knowledge and the tools to do it... through creative education, and early involvement in decision making to attempt to provide us with more options than the full SOPA blackout. The whole idea here is to increase community capacity, not to lobby. :-) Although it is possible that there will be (at some point) a legislative affairs person, for instance, who would track legislation and provide subject matter expertise on process, that's a far cry from a traditional lobbying effort. pb ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I'm all for a shift from the community department, and dividing focus between existing community and things like new editor retention. Zack and the community department, primarily focus on fundraising, with only indirect involvement with the existing community affairs through Philippe, Maggie and others. It seems like an efficient move to give them some room and autonomy. However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind, before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it is something we should seek actively? The strategic plan and individual board members covered this issue in passing several times, but as far as I know, there is no official community-ratified outline or policy to warrant an active involvement at this stage. Issues like SOPA are rare, they come up once in a while. It was the only one of its kind that required such strong action in the last few years I can remember. I'm not sure if an advocacy department already, is a good thing. Especially, if actions like the Italian Wikipedia blackout prove that local communities are quiet capable of doing this on their own, without the involvement or even the knowledge of WMF. The issue with SOPA blackout was different, the communication from WMF was constantly that it is the community's decision, and the foundation will support what the community decides. There was a quick vote and not long after, a blackout. Then the impression seems to have shifted that it was WMF who took that decision, and everyone agreed. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Advocacy is a sensitive area. I really think if we venture too far into this territory, we might loose our neutrality. Encyclopedias, historically have little to do with politics and political advocacy, the only exception that can be agreed upon is, related to things that affect the existence and pursuit of the mission. Those are quiet rare to warrant an entire department already. Regards Theo On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On 2/9/12 7:19 PM, Andreas K. wrote: Well, what do fighting for content online, providing information about legislative initiatives worldwide that impact online content and censorship, and support the advancement of legal conditions that enable unimpeded access to information online, worldwide mean? Fighting for content online includes thing such as pushing back against DMCA takedowns, etc. Providing information about legislative initiatives is just that - making sure that our community is aware of things that are going on. More specifically, building (from within the community) the ability to track that sort of thing. That's an area where crowdsourcing works very very well. Is this program not in one way or another the result and an extension of the recent SOPA blackout? No. It was conceived of prior to that, in fact. We have found that our community has a keen interest in legal and legislative issues (and the policy makers in those areas return the interest), so we would like to explore new ways to support better the community within the goals of the Foundation. We want to improve our communication with international communities, ensuring that the voice of the global community is heard on important initiatives. How does this not mean that Wikimedia will in part be a lobbying organisation? Or in other words, how can you advocate effectively for favourable legal conditions without involving lobbying and politics? By providing our community with the knowledge and the tools to do it... through creative education, and early involvement in decision making to attempt to provide us with more options than the full SOPA blackout. The whole idea here is to increase community capacity, not to lobby. :-) Although it is possible that there will be (at some point) a legislative affairs person, for instance, who would track legislation and provide subject matter expertise on process, that's a far cry from a traditional lobbying effort. pb ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Philippe Beaudette wrote: MZMcBride wrote: A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) I think, even if Wikimedia staff strictly adheres to the terms advocacy and community advocacy, this fails the duck test.[1] If it's lobbying and political action that people (the Wikimedia community and the Wikimedia Board and other stakeholders) really want the Wikimedia Foundation engaged in, I can't do much to stop that (except leave). But I'm reasonably confident that most people in the Wikimedia community aren't in favor of Wikimedia being a political action committee. So I suppose I'll ask again: has the Wikimedia community or the Wikimedia Board expressed support of going forward with this? MZMcBride [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/duck_test#Etymology ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On 10 February 2012 14:43, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Philippe Beaudette wrote: MZMcBride wrote: A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and Board have said they're okay with this? I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not mentioned at all. What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying roles and flavors. So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything that even resembles it. :) I think, even if Wikimedia staff strictly adheres to the terms advocacy and community advocacy, this fails the duck test.[1] If it's lobbying and political action that people (the Wikimedia community and the Wikimedia Board and other stakeholders) really want the Wikimedia Foundation engaged in, I can't do much to stop that (except leave). But I'm reasonably confident that most people in the Wikimedia community aren't in favor of Wikimedia being a political action committee. So I suppose I'll ask again: has the Wikimedia community or the Wikimedia Board expressed support of going forward with this? MZMcBride [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/duck_test#Etymology As a matter of general principle, I too would like to know whether the WMF Board is consulted and/or informed and/or formally approved the creation of new departments or general major organisation re-shuffling. I don't mind who actually gets to make the announcement first, but I think things on this scale (setting up a new division of the organisation) should be dependent on board approval. Also, it would have been nice to see some discussion and buildup to this (or any) new department or major project rather than merely announcing it one day, ta da! style, and expecting that the community wouldn't make assumptions about why it was kept secret in the first place. With the specifics of is this a political lobbying wing of the WMF or not... I think it is quite clear to everyone that Wikimedians have a hard time agreeing about *anything* but that the two things we all agree on is Free (in the technical sense) and that providing a neutral source of information is itself an inherently non-neutral activity. We spent quite a lot of time talking about the legislative environments where we live (and how that interacts with USA laws), what rules govern freedom of panorama in xyz country, who can request takedown of what content in what circumstances, whether we can provide workaround methods for accessing the content in censoring counties, etc. etc. So, in that light it makes perfect sense to me that there should be a group of people at the WMF dedicated to supporting individuals and Chapters to learn more about those kinds of things and to advocate for a free culture position when appropriate. It is in no way against the WMF's (or Chapter's) mission to advocate in the way it has done in the past, to general community acclaim, with for example, - Mike's brilliant response letter to the CIA takedown notice http://mashable.com/2010/08/03/wikipedia-fbi-seal/ - Geoff's filing of an amicus brief to the Goldman v. Holder case http://www.librarycopyrightalliance.org/submissions/domestic/amicus.shtml - Submissions to government policy reviews such as that written by the Research Committee http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Committee/Areas_of_interest/Open-access_policy/EU_Consultation_on_scientific_information_in_the_digital_age I imagine that it is this kind of thing that would be in the scope of the advocacy aspect of this new department. Certainly, I too do not want to see an overt political lobbying department created, but that is not what is being created. For comparison, the formal job title of Mathias Schindler at WM-DE, if I understand correctly, is project manager - politics and society and it's his job to help write submissions to the German parliament when applicable. He's been doing this task for years. So... vigilance required to make sure we're not losing our way by focusing too much on the politics, but we shouldn't be ignoring it or leaving it to others to sort out either. From what that project page says it looks like this strikes a good balance and we'll see how the department evolves over time. -Liam ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
2012/2/10 Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com: With the specifics of is this a political lobbying wing of the WMF or not... I think it is quite clear to everyone that Wikimedians have a hard time agreeing about *anything* but that the two things we all agree on is Free (in the technical sense) and that providing a neutral source of information is itself an inherently non-neutral activity. We spent quite a lot of time talking about the legislative environments where we live (and how that interacts with USA laws), what rules govern freedom of panorama in xyz country, who can request takedown of what content in what circumstances, whether we can provide workaround methods for accessing the content in censoring counties, etc. etc. So, in that light it makes perfect sense to me that there should be a group of people at the WMF dedicated to supporting individuals and Chapters to learn more about those kinds of things and to advocate for a free culture position when appropriate. It is in no way against the WMF's (or Chapter's) mission to advocate in the way it has done in the past, to general community acclaim, with for example, - Mike's brilliant response letter to the CIA takedown notice http://mashable.com/2010/08/03/wikipedia-fbi-seal/ - Geoff's filing of an amicus brief to the Goldman v. Holder case http://www.librarycopyrightalliance.org/submissions/domestic/amicus.shtml - Submissions to government policy reviews such as that written by the Research Committee http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Committee/Areas_of_interest/Open-access_policy/EU_Consultation_on_scientific_information_in_the_digital_age To add one more example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/News_and_notes#Wikimedia_Foundation_joins_protest_against_Obama.27s_RIAA_appointments I imagine that it is this kind of thing that would be in the scope of the advocacy aspect of this new department. Certainly, I too do not want to see an overt political lobbying department created, but that is not what is being created. For comparison, the formal job title of Mathias Schindler at WM-DE, if I understand correctly, is project manager - politics and society and it's his job to help write submissions to the German parliament when applicable. He's been doing this task for years. So... vigilance required to make sure we're not losing our way by focusing too much on the politics, but we shouldn't be ignoring it or leaving it to others to sort out either. From what that project page says it looks like this strikes a good balance and we'll see how the department evolves over time. -Liam ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Liam Wyatt wrote: I imagine that it is this kind of thing that would be in the scope of the advocacy aspect of this new department. Certainly, I too do not want to see an overt political lobbying department created, but that is not what is being created. For comparison, the formal job title of Mathias Schindler at WM-DE, if I understand correctly, is project manager - politics and society and it's his job to help write submissions to the German parliament when applicable. He's been doing this task for years. Y'know, the CentralNotice extension was originally written for fundraising banners and campaigns. Eventually people liked its power enough that they started using it for other interwiki communications. And then a few people had the idea of using it to turn the English Wikipedia off(!) in protest of bills in the U.S. Congress that they didn't like very much. You'll have to forgive me for thinking that what started as a one-time protest that has now (quickly) morphed into an entire department of the Wikimedia Foundation will not one day be engaged in political lobbying. Likely with the help of the lobbying organization that Wikimedia has already engaged and employed. I will give credit to the Wikimedia Foundation for having the _cojones_ to try to portray this as community advocacy. It certainly takes a large brass pair. So... vigilance required to make sure we're not losing our way by focusing too much on the politics, but we shouldn't be ignoring it or leaving it to others to sort out either. From what that project page says it looks like this strikes a good balance and we'll see how the department evolves over time. Respectfully, I don't think this is as much about being vigilant as it is about saying that the bullets should be taken out of the gun rather than leaving it loaded on the table. I don't foresee a lot of good coming from this (predictable) step by the Wikimedia Foundation, but I do foresee quite a lot of bad. Politics has awesome power... it quite often tears organizations apart. MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind, before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it is something we should seek actively? Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. The new Community Advocacy staff do what they've always done -- represent the community to the Wikimedia Foundation, liaise, and advocate for their issues. Taking into account Philippe's last role, reader relations, it probably also includes advocating for the readers as well. This just spins it off into its own department and gives it a name that more clearly defines what it does. Many organizations, especially membership associations, have positions devoted to advocacy like this. They're the contact people that represent the broader group to the rest of the organization and bring up issues that they want dealt with. -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind, before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it is something we should seek actively? Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. The new Community Advocacy staff do what they've always done -- represent the community to the Wikimedia Foundation, liaise, and advocate for their issues. Taking into account Philippe's last role, reader relations, it probably also includes advocating for the readers as well. This just spins it off into its own department and gives it a name that more clearly defines what it does. Many organizations, especially membership associations, have positions devoted to advocacy like this. They're the contact people that represent the broader group to the rest of the organization and bring up issues that they want dealt with. Hi Casey I took Advocacy to mean the same as its dictionary definition - Public support for or recommendation of a particular cause or policy. What you are describing falls more under the purview of Communications. If you need a separate department to communicate to WMF the wishes of its community, than I must inform you, that the several existing department - starting with the community department, any internal communication even the global development department are useless. What you are talking about is similar to internal communications. WMF is there to serve the community, if this department is being created for the purpose of advocating community wishes to WMF, than it is about time; only 5-6 years late. The issue comes in when it is joined together with the legal department and given the scope of Community advocacy. This smells of advocating on behalf of the community, to whom we can differ on, but the way SOPA blackout was handled leads me to believe that there is going to be a strong handed approach to this. As I stated earlier, the community is very capable of communicating its advocacy wishes, and taking action without even the knowledge of WMF. I do have to state, that the precedent set after the SOPA blackout, and engaging a lobbying firm, points to this being an extension of similar activities. Individual board members have already stated their support for active advocacy for the movement. This does not seem like what you are describing, which seems more like community liaison work, which actually should have been the Community department's job since its inception. Regards Theo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth. Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we should be choosing simple, crisp clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn the chart on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have very little time and interest to parse it. I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be utilized and further advertised in coming days: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll generate lots of tangible value for the community. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Congratulations! I think this is a valuable effort in the right direction. anirudh On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth. Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we should be choosing simple, crisp clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn the chart on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have very little time and interest to parse it. I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be utilized and further advertised in coming days: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll generate lots of tangible value for the community. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth. Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we should be choosing simple, crisp clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn the chart on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have very little time and interest to parse it. I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be utilized and further advertised in coming days: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll generate lots of tangible value for the community. Then my suggestion would be, rename the department. I completely agree, it is about time Philippe and Maggie get more authority and a dedicated department. I am happy for both of them. They actually do and have been doing the heavy lifting for years when it comes to the community. I would actually be more in favor of calling their department the community department. ;) Regards Theo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
I must say that after reading all this and the detailed page with the beautiful graphic I am still confused what the department will actually do. There are beautiful abstract goals which everybody would obviously agree with, and there are highly diverse skills involved from on one end Maggie and on the other extreme Geoff. All great. But I hope you can help me by summarizing in one or two sentences of mortal English what you will *do* everyday. Will you be the ones executing decisions from Legal? Will you be nutshelling community decisions and act like an ambassador to the Wikimedia Foundation? Will you be working on guiding the community involvement processes Geoff handled so well with the Terms of Use? Thanks, Lodewijk No dia 10 de Fevereiro de 2012 07:46, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.comescreveu: On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Advocacy is a much more general term in this context than people seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of the community. Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth. Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we should be choosing simple, crisp clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn the chart on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have very little time and interest to parse it. I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be utilized and further advertised in coming days: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll generate lots of tangible value for the community. Then my suggestion would be, rename the department. I completely agree, it is about time Philippe and Maggie get more authority and a dedicated department. I am happy for both of them. They actually do and have been doing the heavy lifting for years when it comes to the community. I would actually be more in favor of calling their department the community department. ;) Regards Theo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
