Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!
Hi, On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Sriram Ramkrishna s...@ramkrishna.mewrote: As is available on the page referenced in every communication about the removal of fallback? https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features/DropOrFixFallbackMode If people skip reading it intentionally, they'll only see the headline and make their (uninformed) comments. This is pretty much what happened. Yeah, but the name of the feature is Drop or Fix Fallback Mode, not New Features that make Fallback Mode Unnecessary for Many Users.(or however you want to put it). How can you then blame people for focusing *only* on the fact that we are, well, *dropping fallback mode?* * * Meg Ford That's pretty much what was happening. People read the headline and then think GNOME is getting rid of features and then start grumbling again. The whole GNOME is removing stuff is a widespread meme that just propagates. A lot from people still angry from the 1.0 days I think. I sometimes vacillate from get over it to trying to explain the situation. It depends on how deep the thread is. :-) ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!
2012/11/15 Karen Sandler ka...@gnome.org On Thu, November 15, 2012 2:39 pm, William Jon McCann wrote: Hi Karen, I think these are good suggestions. But I think it would be a mistake to leave this critical responsibility to a committee of volunteers. One of the many challenges we face is that our voice and message have been too inconsistent - too infrequently heard. Heard too late. Lacking authority. In want of good taste. And dealing with this is taking a huge toll on our ability to attract and retain contributors. Something needs to be done. I propose that we hire or appoint a full time director of marketing. This is a great idea! And I agree that this is a major area of need for us. Given the GNOME Foundation finances, it probably is also worth considering someone part-time (especially if there is a team of volunteers that can be trained and directed by such a person) or thinking creatively about fundraising for the position. I think the GNOME project must listen its users rather than trying to sell products. I already see the headlines GNOME foundation hires a director of marketing to defend its brand ... and the associated flame wars. It's not acceptable after 3 iterations to ignore/reject the most frequent complaints (I don't want to list them here...). If we need a marketing director to convince people to use GNOME, we failed. Stéphane ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!
On Mon, 2012-11-19 at 17:57 +0100, Stéphane Raimbault wrote: It's not acceptable after 3 iterations to ignore/reject the most frequent complaints (I don't want to list them here...). I don't believe in design by committee. Software development is not a popularity contest. Also, some questionable decisions have been reverted (I don't want to list them here...). andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
RMS: On 11/17/12 07:53 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: Tools that use non-free technologies like Skype or Vonage are not just popular, but a requirement for many people who pay for such services. How many average people would purchase a device that did not support such tools? Is this a real issue? On a free operating system, developers can implement whatever they wish. And users can install it if they wish. Most commercial products that work with video require non-free codecs. While users may do what they wish, installing free software that implements non-free codecs may be considered a crime in some places. This seems to be a disconnect of subject. Before, you were talking about support for Skype. The only company that might plausibly implement a program for Skype on GNU/Linux is Skype. So my response is about that. If Skype wants to implement its snooping-enabled nofree software on GNU/Linux, it can do so, and users can install it if they wish. Like any nonfree software, this would be unethical, but I see no reason why it would be a crime. My point is that we must not do _anything_ that could be construed as recommending that nonfree software, and that includes integrating it. Our duty, rather than integrating nonfree software, is to differentiate it -- not do anything that would grant it ethical legitimacy. Good point. I was really not trying to recommend any non-free software. My examples were just meant to be currently popular examples. Instead I was just trying to highlight that there seems to be a disconnect between the GNOME project team's stated goals of reaching the average computer user when so many average users believe they need non-free products, such as tools that interact with and create media. The same applies to DRM software, which I supposed would be implemented by the same companies that use the DRM, if at all. This too would be proprietary software, and malicious too, so we must not do anything that would grant it ethical legitimacy. I respect that those artists who create digital art should have mechanisms to own their artwork or to control how it should be consumed or presented. However, DRM systems should minimally not disallow the financially disadvantaged from participating in digital culture. Otherwise would be inhumane. Since some states which treat their citizens as enemies persecute such software, GNOME would not be directly involved with it. Aside, perhaps, from helping to envision what a usable accessible desktop for the world's average financially disadvantaged user might look like. Considering that OLPC is a significant distributor of GNOME already and that free software has obvious benefits in regions affected by poverty. I would encourage the GNOME product to focus more strongly on this and other important humanitarian use cases. Currently free software systems are unable to support popular ubiquitous devices, like certain touch-screen features or a DVD movie player. It seems clear humanitarian concerns have not been considered deeply here. As multimedia and human interaction devices become more sophisticated, this will likely become a more serious problem for the desktop. Perhaps it might be possible to help craft more sophisticated law that better protects the ability of companies and artists to profit from their creative work in a more humane manner. To me, this seems like a topic worthy of discussion and action amongst free software desktop developers. Though, you may be talking about something else when you say GNOME should not be directly involved. Brian ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
Another big area is applications. We are working on a new suite of core applications, which are designed in accordance with our high-level goals (cloud integration is a key objective here). Anything designed using the term cloud is taking a risk of encouraging practices that are abusive to the user. That term is nebulous and includes many different practices. Some of them are ok. Some of them are things only fools would use. The term cloud suggests an attitude of insufficient concern for the mistreatment -- in effect, cloudy thinking. To be careful about which network services to use, people need to focus on the specifics of each one -- an attitude just the opposite of what the cloud suggests. We should encourage the attitude of caution and careful thought about each. Encouraging people to depend on network servers run by others is one of the harmful aspects of recent computer products. An ethical product encourages and leads people to keep full control over their data and their computing, not hand them over to companies which we know do surveillance and abuse people's data. Thus, the server we should mainly encourage people to use is the Freedom Box. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
I respect that those artists who create digital art should have mechanisms to own their artwork or to control how it should be consumed or presented. DRM is a scheme to restrict the public. This deserves opposition and defeat -- not respect. DRM additionally attacks the free software movement: DRM-loaded works require nonfree software, and free replacements are censored in the US and some other countries. This is why we started the DefectiveByDesign.org. I suggest making GNOME inform users about DefectiveByDesign.org so as to boost the campaign. (People reading this might want to sign up.) Two noteworthy erroneous assumptions in that text. * That DRM is set up by artists for their own personal goals. Typically it is implemented by companies. * That we consume digital works. One of the advantages of digital formats is that using them does not consume them, or even wear them out. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!
On 11/19/2012 08:57 AM, Stéphane Raimbault wrote: If we need a marketing director to convince people to use GNOME, we failed. This is a cute statement, but is it really true? The people that could most benefit from our choice to build a simple to use system are those that are least likely to discover it on their own. As engineers, we often have a visceral reaction to the term marketing. That doesn't need to be the case. -- Christian ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: GNOME now
RMS: On 11/19/12 03:32 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: I respect that those artists who create digital art should have mechanisms to own their artwork or to control how it should be consumed or presented. This is why we started the DefectiveByDesign.org. I suggest making GNOME inform users about DefectiveByDesign.org so as to boost the campaign. (People reading this might want to sign up.) How do you propose GNOME should inform users? Any promotion in the GNOME source code would be complicated, if not impossible, to require. Two noteworthy erroneous assumptions in that text. * That DRM is set up by artists for their own personal goals. Typically it is implemented by companies. I did not intend for this to be an assumption. I did not say that what we call DRM is the specific solution that should be used for artists to own their artwork. Instead I was trying to only suggest that digital artists should be able to profit from their digital artwork. Maybe it is possible to profit from artwork that you do not own, but that probably requires more social reorganization than I can comprehend today. * That we consume digital works. One of the advantages of digital formats is that using them does not consume them, or even wear them out. Consume is not the best word to use as you point out. Some works of art are expensive and require financing. Most movies or digital games cost a small fortune to make, for example. DRM may not be the best way for such works to be financed, but it is a popular way used by many average people today. This is why, I think, the DefectiveByDesign campaign exists as a voice of contrast. Brian ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
