Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 3:53 pm, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > Yet another PCPOS in GNOME. When will this stop? Is there an end? Any? I refer you to GNOME's Code of Conduct: https://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/ Be respectful and considerate, patient and generous. Please take this into consideration in future posts. karen ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 13:28 -0500, meg ford wrote: > As a native English speaker I can verify that the term it is indeed a > problem. The GIMP, however, is widely used by people I know who don't even > know what Free Software is. Changing its name could have pretty negative > consequences for their project I would imagine No-one is asking the GIMP to change its name (at least not in this thread). This is about renaming the IRC network for the GNOME project as a whole from gimpnet to gnome.net. Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
Hey, On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Philip Van Hoof wrote: > On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:02 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: > > > We are looking into changing our irc server name from irc.gimpnet.org > > to irc.gnome.org and looking for feedback. > > Why? > > > Essentially, it's become problematic to have 'gimp' in the name of our > > server. To many, 'gimp' is an offensive term an given our dedication > > to a11y it seems counter-intuitive to have this name in our > > infrastructure. > > Yet another PCPOS in GNOME. When will this stop? Is there an end? Any? > Yeah idk how "PC" it is to not use the term gimp. The US, where I live, has pretty strong free speech laws, but people don't use this term because it's too offensive. So I think this is kind of an I18n issue. Meg Ford > > > The proposal is to make irc.gnome.org be an DNS A record and we will > > continue to honor irc.gimpnet.org as a CNAME for one year in which > > case we will then remove it altogether. > > Gimpnet is cultural inheritance of GNOME, I think it's a bad idea to do > this for that reason. > > Kind regards, > > Philip > > > -- > Philip Van Hoof > Software developer > Codeminded BVBA - http://codeminded.be > > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:02 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: > We are looking into changing our irc server name from irc.gimpnet.org > to irc.gnome.org and looking for feedback. Why? > Essentially, it's become problematic to have 'gimp' in the name of our > server. To many, 'gimp' is an offensive term an given our dedication > to a11y it seems counter-intuitive to have this name in our > infrastructure. Yet another PCPOS in GNOME. When will this stop? Is there an end? Any? > The proposal is to make irc.gnome.org be an DNS A record and we will > continue to honor irc.gimpnet.org as a CNAME for one year in which > case we will then remove it altogether. Gimpnet is cultural inheritance of GNOME, I think it's a bad idea to do this for that reason. Kind regards, Philip -- Philip Van Hoof Software developer Codeminded BVBA - http://codeminded.be ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Services is now MeetBot capable
On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 12:01 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > from today the Services bot will be able to manage / log meetings by > using the MeetBot plugin. This is pretty awesome. Thanks for setting up nice services like these! Federico ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: "Boston" Summit 2013?
> As far as I see, there are 3 different people working on this (or at > least 2 plus another one interested in). It might be a good idea if you > could coordinate between yourselves if you have not done that yet. Yes, I'll email James and Tristan (are there others?) to try to coordinate something. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Guilherme de Siqueira Pastore < gpast...@gnome.org> wrote: > On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 05:37:52PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > The IRCD ran by the GIMPNET team has all the configuration files pointing > > to their specific subdomains, that obviously won't change by just moving > > the CNAME to an A record. But that's actually expected since we don't run > > an IRCD server "in house" on the GNOME Infrastructure. (and that could be > > the only way for 'Your host is $hostname' to match with irc.gnome.org) > > There actually are some ircd implementations providing a feature of virtual > hosts. Although debatable in many aspects, it could allow anyone connecting > to any GIMPNet server to be shown, to themselves and others, as connected > to > irc.gnome.org, as long as that was the server informed in the USER > command. > > I do not believe that the ircd behind GIMPNet has this feature, though. > > > I'm not sure if the GIMPNET team will agree to fix their MOTD et all to > > show the user connected to irc.gnome.org successfully for one main > reason: > > GIMPNET is not only the GNOME IRC Network, but it currently serves many > > other irc channels not strictly GNOME-related. > > The MOTD has no mention to *gimp*, if you take a closer look. Neither do > the > server names, as a matter of fact. People are still connected to "GIMPNet", > however, as the network identifier. > > Anyway, that was exactly the point of my last e-mail. > > I was simply trying to argue that it is sure possible to switch from a > CNAME > to an A DNS record. This is a technicality with little practical effect (as > long as GNOME keeps track of any changes in servers and their IP > addresses). > We can also direct people to irc.gnome.org instead of irc.gimp.org, which > may > be good in terms of public relations, but I think that is already the case. > > But doing all that will not change the fact that they will still see > themselves connected to GIMPNet - which is a problem well outside the scope > of DNS changes. > > To be honest, I am not even convinced there is indeed a problem, or at > least > one we can solve (particularly while The GIMP continues to be an important > piece of any free desktop and continues to be called The GIMP). > As a native English speaker I can verify that the term it is indeed a problem. The GIMP, however, is widely used by people I know who don't even know what Free Software is. Changing its name could have pretty negative consequences for their project I would imagine (due to reduced name recognition), even though the acronym is unfortunate and offensive. Meg Ford > > I was just pointing out that, although the proposed change can be put into > effect without much further consideration, the original issue remains an > issue. > > > > 2013/5/9 Guilherme de Siqueira Pastore > > > > > On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 01:43:45PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > > > The current DNS entry is setup as a CNAME, that means connecting to > > > > irc.gnome.org will redirect your client to irc.gimp.org. The idea > here > > > is > > > > to switch the DNS entry for irc.gnome.org to be an A record > pointing to > > > the > > > > irc.gimp.org's IP and listing the new entry (irc.gnome.org) as the > > > official > > > > place contributors should connect to. > > > > > > > > That said, any of the irc.*.gimp.* entries will remain as it is > (really > > > > there's no need to update / delete the relevant entry for the solely > > > reason > > > > that GIMPNET doesn't host only GNOME channels, we can't define > GIMPNET as > > > > the *Official* GNOME network as of now), what will change is how the > DNS > > > > record for the irc.gnome.org subdomain will look like, from a CNAME > > > (plain > > > > DNS redirect) to an A record. > > > > > > Then, with all due respect, I am not sure the proposed solution > > > sufficiently > > > addresses the initial concern (or which I was also originally not > aware, > > > not > > > being a native speaker of English myself). > > > > > > IRC servers provide the server name in the 004 message upon connection > and > > > in > > > the 351 reply to the VERSION command. They also (commonly) inform the > > > network > > > name in the de facto standard 005 numeric. > > > > > > That is the case for GIMPNet. Please note that, in the (stripped) > > > transcript > > > below, I specifically informed the server that I was trying to connect > to > > > irc.gnome.org (third argument to the USER command): > > > > > > gpastore@neodymium:~$ telnet irc.gnome.org 6667 > > > Trying 82.99.16.155... > > > Connected to irc.gimp.org. > > > Escape character is '^]'. > > > NICK fatalerror > > > USER gpastore neodymium.pastore.eng.br irc.gnome.org :Guilherme > Pastore > > > :irc.eagle.y.se 001 fatalerror :Welcome to the Internet Relay Network > > > fatalerror > > > :irc.eagle.y.se 002 fatalerror :Your host is irc.eagle.y.se[ > > > irc.eagle.y.se/6667], running version 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3 > > > :irc.eagle
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 05:37:52PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > The IRCD ran by the GIMPNET team has all the configuration files pointing > to their specific subdomains, that obviously won't change by just moving > the CNAME to an A record. But that's actually expected since we don't run > an IRCD server "in house" on the GNOME Infrastructure. (and that could be > the only way for 'Your host is $hostname' to match with irc.gnome.org) There actually are some ircd implementations providing a feature of virtual hosts. Although debatable in many aspects, it could allow anyone connecting to any GIMPNet server to be shown, to themselves and others, as connected to irc.gnome.org, as long as that was the server informed in the USER command. I do not believe that the ircd behind GIMPNet has this feature, though. > I'm not sure if the GIMPNET team will agree to fix their MOTD et all to > show the user connected to irc.gnome.org successfully for one main reason: > GIMPNET is not only the GNOME IRC Network, but it currently serves many > other irc channels not strictly GNOME-related. The MOTD has no mention to *gimp*, if you take a closer look. Neither do the server names, as a matter of fact. People are still connected to "GIMPNet", however, as the network identifier. Anyway, that was exactly the point of my last e-mail. I was simply trying to argue that it is sure possible to switch from a CNAME to an A DNS record. This is a technicality with little practical effect (as long as GNOME keeps track of any changes in servers and their IP addresses). We can also direct people to irc.gnome.org instead of irc.gimp.org, which may be good in terms of public relations, but I think that is already the case. But doing all that will not change the fact that they will still see themselves connected to GIMPNet - which is a problem well outside the scope of DNS changes. To be honest, I am not even convinced there is indeed a problem, or at least one we can solve (particularly while The GIMP continues to be an important piece of any free desktop and continues to be called The GIMP). I was just pointing out that, although the proposed change can be put into effect without much further consideration, the original issue remains an issue. > 2013/5/9 Guilherme de Siqueira Pastore > > > On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 01:43:45PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > > The current DNS entry is setup as a CNAME, that means connecting to > > > irc.gnome.org will redirect your client to irc.gimp.org. The idea here > > is > > > to switch the DNS entry for irc.gnome.org to be an A record pointing to > > the > > > irc.gimp.org's IP and listing the new entry (irc.gnome.org) as the > > official > > > place contributors should connect to. > > > > > > That said, any of the irc.*.gimp.* entries will remain as it is (really > > > there's no need to update / delete the relevant entry for the solely > > reason > > > that GIMPNET doesn't host only GNOME channels, we can't define GIMPNET as > > > the *Official* GNOME network as of now), what will change is how the DNS > > > record for the irc.gnome.org subdomain will look like, from a CNAME > > (plain > > > DNS redirect) to an A record. > > > > Then, with all due respect, I am not sure the proposed solution > > sufficiently > > addresses the initial concern (or which I was also originally not aware, > > not > > being a native speaker of English myself). > > > > IRC servers provide the server name in the 004 message upon connection and > > in > > the 351 reply to the VERSION command. They also (commonly) inform the > > network > > name in the de facto standard 005 numeric. > > > > That is the case for GIMPNet. Please note that, in the (stripped) > > transcript > > below, I specifically informed the server that I was trying to connect to > > irc.gnome.org (third argument to the USER command): > > > > gpastore@neodymium:~$ telnet irc.gnome.org 6667 > > Trying 82.99.16.155... > > Connected to irc.gimp.org. > > Escape character is '^]'. > > NICK fatalerror > > USER gpastore neodymium.pastore.eng.br irc.gnome.org :Guilherme Pastore > > :irc.eagle.y.se 001 fatalerror :Welcome to the Internet Relay Network > > fatalerror > > :irc.eagle.y.se 002 fatalerror :Your host is irc.eagle.y.se[ > > irc.eagle.y.se/6667], running version 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3 > > :irc.eagle.y.se 004 fatalerror irc.eagle.y.se 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3 > > oOiwszcrkfydnxb biklmnopstve > > :irc.eagle.y.se 005 fatalerror WALLCHOPS PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#& > > MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=50 NICKLEN=39 TOPICLEN=500 KICKLEN=90 > > NETWORK=GIMPNet CHANMODES=be,k,l,imnpst EXCEPTS MODES=4 :are supported by > > this server > > VERSION > > :irc.eagle.y.se 351 fatalerror 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3(20020217_2). > > irc.eagle.y.se :ACeGHiMpZ TS5ow > > :irc.eagle.y.se 005 fatalerror WALLCHOPS PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#& > > MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=50 NICKLEN=39 TOPICLEN=500 KICKLEN=90 > > NETWORK=GIMPNet CHANMODES=be,k,l,imnpst EXCEPTS MODES=4 :are supported by > > this server
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
The IRCD ran by the GIMPNET team has all the configuration files pointing to their specific subdomains, that obviously won't change by just moving the CNAME to an A record. But that's actually expected since we don't run an IRCD server "in house" on the GNOME Infrastructure. (and that could be the only way for 'Your host is $hostname' to match with irc.gnome.org) I'm not sure if the GIMPNET team will agree to fix their MOTD et all to show the user connected to irc.gnome.org successfully for one main reason: GIMPNET is not only the GNOME IRC Network, but it currently serves many other irc channels not strictly GNOME-related. 2013/5/9 Guilherme de Siqueira Pastore > On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 01:43:45PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > The current DNS entry is setup as a CNAME, that means connecting to > > irc.gnome.org will redirect your client to irc.gimp.org. The idea here > is > > to switch the DNS entry for irc.gnome.org to be an A record pointing to > the > > irc.gimp.org's IP and listing the new entry (irc.gnome.org) as the > official > > place contributors should connect to. > > > > That said, any of the irc.*.gimp.* entries will remain as it is (really > > there's no need to update / delete the relevant entry for the solely > reason > > that GIMPNET doesn't host only GNOME channels, we can't define GIMPNET as > > the *Official* GNOME network as of now), what will change is how the DNS > > record for the irc.gnome.org subdomain will look like, from a CNAME > (plain > > DNS redirect) to an A record. > > Then, with all due respect, I am not sure the proposed solution > sufficiently > addresses the initial concern (or which I was also originally not aware, > not > being a native speaker of English myself). > > IRC servers provide the server name in the 004 message upon connection and > in > the 351 reply to the VERSION command. They also (commonly) inform the > network > name in the de facto standard 005 numeric. > > That is the case for GIMPNet. Please note that, in the (stripped) > transcript > below, I specifically informed the server that I was trying to connect to > irc.gnome.org (third argument to the USER command): > > gpastore@neodymium:~$ telnet irc.gnome.org 6667 > Trying 82.99.16.155... > Connected to irc.gimp.org. > Escape character is '^]'. > NICK fatalerror > USER gpastore neodymium.pastore.eng.br irc.gnome.org :Guilherme Pastore > :irc.eagle.y.se 001 fatalerror :Welcome to the Internet Relay Network > fatalerror > :irc.eagle.y.se 002 fatalerror :Your host is irc.eagle.y.se[ > irc.eagle.y.se/6667], running version 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3 > :irc.eagle.y.se 004 fatalerror irc.eagle.y.se 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3 > oOiwszcrkfydnxb biklmnopstve > :irc.eagle.y.se 005 fatalerror WALLCHOPS PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#& > MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=50 NICKLEN=39 TOPICLEN=500 KICKLEN=90 > NETWORK=GIMPNet CHANMODES=be,k,l,imnpst EXCEPTS MODES=4 :are supported by > this server > VERSION > :irc.eagle.y.se 351 fatalerror 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3(20020217_2). > irc.eagle.y.se :ACeGHiMpZ TS5ow > :irc.eagle.y.se 005 fatalerror WALLCHOPS PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#& > MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=50 NICKLEN=39 TOPICLEN=500 KICKLEN=90 > NETWORK=GIMPNet CHANMODES=be,k,l,imnpst EXCEPTS MODES=4 :are supported by > this server > > This is what all IRC clients I know will show and, as a consequence, what > the > user will see: GIMPNet - irc.eagle.y.se, as informed by the server, and > not > irc.gnome.org, solely because it is an A instead of CNAME DNS record. > > Just my two cents. > > Kind regards, > > Guilherme > > -- Cheers, Andrea Debian Developer, Fedora / EPEL packager, GNOME Sysadmin, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/~av ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 01:43:45PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > The current DNS entry is setup as a CNAME, that means connecting to > irc.gnome.org will redirect your client to irc.gimp.org. The idea here is > to switch the DNS entry for irc.gnome.org to be an A record pointing to the > irc.gimp.org's IP and listing the new entry (irc.gnome.org) as the official > place contributors should connect to. > > That said, any of the irc.*.gimp.* entries will remain as it is (really > there's no need to update / delete the relevant entry for the solely reason > that GIMPNET doesn't host only GNOME channels, we can't define GIMPNET as > the *Official* GNOME network as of now), what will change is how the DNS > record for the irc.gnome.org subdomain will look like, from a CNAME (plain > DNS redirect) to an A record. Then, with all due respect, I am not sure the proposed solution sufficiently addresses the initial concern (or which I was also originally not aware, not being a native speaker of English myself). IRC servers provide the server name in the 004 message upon connection and in the 351 reply to the VERSION command. They also (commonly) inform the network name in the de facto standard 005 numeric. That is the case for GIMPNet. Please note that, in the (stripped) transcript below, I specifically informed the server that I was trying to connect to irc.gnome.org (third argument to the USER command): gpastore@neodymium:~$ telnet irc.gnome.org 6667 Trying 82.99.16.155... Connected to irc.gimp.org. Escape character is '^]'. NICK fatalerror USER gpastore neodymium.pastore.eng.br irc.gnome.org :Guilherme Pastore :irc.eagle.y.se 001 fatalerror :Welcome to the Internet Relay Network fatalerror :irc.eagle.y.se 002 fatalerror :Your host is irc.eagle.y.se[irc.eagle.y.se/6667], running version 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3 :irc.eagle.y.se 004 fatalerror irc.eagle.y.se 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3 oOiwszcrkfydnxb biklmnopstve :irc.eagle.y.se 005 fatalerror WALLCHOPS PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#& MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=50 NICKLEN=39 TOPICLEN=500 KICKLEN=90 NETWORK=GIMPNet CHANMODES=be,k,l,imnpst EXCEPTS MODES=4 :are supported by this server VERSION :irc.eagle.y.se 351 fatalerror 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3(20020217_2). irc.eagle.y.se :ACeGHiMpZ TS5ow :irc.eagle.y.se 005 fatalerror WALLCHOPS PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#& MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=50 NICKLEN=39 TOPICLEN=500 KICKLEN=90 NETWORK=GIMPNet CHANMODES=be,k,l,imnpst EXCEPTS MODES=4 :are supported by this server This is what all IRC clients I know will show and, as a consequence, what the user will see: GIMPNet - irc.eagle.y.se, as informed by the server, and not irc.gnome.org, solely because it is an A instead of CNAME DNS record. Just my two cents. Kind regards, Guilherme ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Andrea Veri wrote: > That said, any of the irc.*.gimp.* entries will remain as it is (really > there's no need to update / delete the relevant entry for the solely reason > that GIMPNET doesn't host only GNOME channels, we can't define GIMPNET as the > *Official* GNOME network as of now), what will change is how the DNS record > for the irc.gnome.org subdomain will look like, from a CNAME (plain DNS > redirect) to an A record. > Thanks for clarifying this, Andrea! I was concerned that the old irc.*.gimp.* entries would be removed and would cause old clients to break. Since that's not happening, this DNS change has no downsides. Cheers, -- ~Nirbheek Chauhan ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.
2013/5/8 Sriram Ramkrishna The proposal is to make irc.gnome.org be an DNS A record and we will > continue to honor irc.gimpnet.org as a CNAME for one year in which case > we will then remove it altogether. > A little clarification about this, the GNOME Sysadmin team doesn't have access to the DNS zone files for the gimp.org domain, and really there is no plan to change / update / modify any of the irc.*.gimp.*'s DNS entries. The GIMPNET network currently hosts a lot more channels than the GNOME-specific ones, so we can't and we won't drop irc.gimp.org/net all together and switch them to be irc.gnome.org. The current DNS entry is setup as a CNAME, that means connecting to irc.gnome.org will redirect your client to irc.gimp.org. The idea here is to switch the DNS entry for irc.gnome.org to be an A record pointing to the irc.gimp.org's IP and listing the new entry (irc.gnome.org) as the official place contributors should connect to. That said, any of the irc.*.gimp.* entries will remain as it is (really there's no need to update / delete the relevant entry for the solely reason that GIMPNET doesn't host only GNOME channels, we can't define GIMPNET as the *Official* GNOME network as of now), what will change is how the DNS record for the irc.gnome.org subdomain will look like, from a CNAME (plain DNS redirect) to an A record. -- Cheers, Andrea Debian Developer, Fedora / EPEL packager, GNOME Sysadmin, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/~av ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
