Re: [fpc-devel] Binary Package System Discussion?
On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 01:24:36PM -0500, Den wrote: > I know this has been brought up from time to time, but the more I > use NetBeans and other big editors.. The more I miss the fact that it > isolates you from being in their pool of source code to build whenever > you add a component, etc. > Having a binary-only Lazarus would mean an > entire overhaul of a binary package system. What would be amazing to > see actually, is FPC being able to compile into a universal object > (which supports the basic byte code, and sections which will only be > used when converting to a certain architecture if necessary.. Like SSE > optimized code), then being able to convert into native code at > destination machine. Something like Chrome's Native Client does now, > which compiles the code into a universal op-code base, and converts it > to native at their servers.. Aside from the fact that it requires a bunch of tech that is not there and costly to develop (even if you wanted to), it still doesn't solve the recompile on installation of a package (specially if they contain code, like designtime editors). Then there is of course the problem that Java solves by simply not being multiplatform at all. (but run inside a Java world with the real machine at arms length) Such universal code system would still fall down at the first OS specific ifdef. (since code for only the selected platform would be compiled into bytecode ). > Having this universal binary package system, means we can > distribute one package, and have it convert on the destination machine. Yes. And then you would have what exactly? Still only a binary package compiled at the host binary, the link to the IDE is still not done. > Means we don't really have to do tricks when distributing your unit when > you don't want to distribute the source code (ie. Commercial Packages). Good to remind, that is also the problem, since like most bytecodes the intermediate format would be easily decompilable. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Binary Package System Discussion?
Hi Sven! I suppose you can just have Build Servers and build all major OS/Architectures. The platform differences could be solved by an additional 'target dependent' package. But I suppose with the Dynamic Packages, we could just bundle the different architectures in the one Package File, and have a header which states which architectures it has in it, or even in the file listings in the Package in a certain directory. When that time comes, fun stuff will happen, as the Lazarus could be made to auto-update and such for the normal folk. (I know mine is practically auto-update.. Update VCS and then rebuild :p ) and then there's FPCUP .. But just thought something like Netbeans. I was also thinking, when I have time, I wanted to make an API for Lazarus which devs could make their own VCS and have it display in the IDE, to make it more modern.. But I have a project due very very soon, so I can't really work on it yet. :p Anyway, thanks for the reply Sven! I'll have that bug fix tested as soon as I get a moment. Take care! - Den On 14-09-06 03:29 PM, Sven Barth wrote: > Any thoughts? Dream on. FPC is a native compiler and someone would need to implement that proposed bytecode and maintain it. Even once we support LLVM we wouldn't drop any of our native code generators and even if we did LLVM simply does not support all those platforms that we support (e.g. m68k as CPU or OS/2 as OS). Additionally there'd still be the platform differences which would stop you from distributing one set of blobs: on Windows you need to use the WinAPI, on Linux C API and X11 and on Mac OS X C API and Carbon/Cocoa. If you'd encode all this currently handled by ifdefs and different units into those blobs you could simply distribute the source as well. Please note that support for binary packages (aka dynamic packages) will come. But they will depend on a target just as compiled units currently do already. Regards, Sven ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
Am 06.09.2014 11:27 schrieb "Reinier Olislagers" <
reinierolislag...@gmail.com>:
> program hellomips;
>
> {$mode objfpc}
> // let's use short strings {.$H+}
>
> {not$DEFINE UseCThreads} //otherwise it seems we get pthreads which gdb
> can't debug
> uses
> {$IFDEF UNIX}{$IFDEF UseCThreads}
> cthreads,
> {$ENDIF}{$ENDIF}
> Classes
> ;
>
> begin
> writeln('hello mips');
> end.
Would you please as a test remove the Classes unit as well? It does some
rather heavyweight initialization (which I noticed during getting m68k back
to life).
>
> with options
> -MObjFPC -Scghi -Tlinux -Pmips -CpMIPS32R2 -Xs -vewnhibq
> -Filib\mips-linux -Fu. -FUlib\mips-linux -l
Are you sure "mips" is the big endian version? (I don't remember whether
it's mips and mipsle or mipsbe and nips...)
Additionally a simple Helloworld binary like that should not have any
library dependencies (FPC's RTL normally uses syscalls directly on Linux
after all). Would you please check with the mips objdump whether this is
really the case?
Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-devel] Binary Package System Discussion?
> Any thoughts? Dream on. FPC is a native compiler and someone would need to implement that proposed bytecode and maintain it. Even once we support LLVM we wouldn't drop any of our native code generators and even if we did LLVM simply does not support all those platforms that we support (e.g. m68k as CPU or OS/2 as OS). Additionally there'd still be the platform differences which would stop you from distributing one set of blobs: on Windows you need to use the WinAPI, on Linux C API and X11 and on Mac OS X C API and Carbon/Cocoa. If you'd encode all this currently handled by ifdefs and different units into those blobs you could simply distribute the source as well. Please note that support for binary packages (aka dynamic packages) will come. But they will depend on a target just as compiled units currently do already. Regards, Sven ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
On 06/09/2014 18:40, Nikolai Zhubr wrote: > Prebuilt/preflashed openwrt images most definitely do not have normal > glibc, which is supposedly expected by normal linux rtl. Although I > haven't checked myself, I think you could either try to somehow remove > glibc dependancy for your test, or rebuild (and reflash) openwrt > yourself with glibc/eglibc enabled, which might in turn require some > digging and patching, see e.g. > https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=31174 Thanks. I'll have a look... > On the other hand, if you are going to do some fpc-related > testing/development/etc on mips, I can create and account for you on one > of my debian mips boxes for remote access (Those are only used for daily > builds so are idle most time of day). Thanks for your kind offer, but apart from some DBF related stuff I doubt I'll be going to do some FPC-related development on the box. When circumstances change, I'll get in touch ;) ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] Binary Package System Discussion?
Hello all, I know this has been brought up from time to time, but the more I use NetBeans and other big editors.. The more I miss the fact that it isolates you from being in their pool of source code to build whenever you add a component, etc. Having a binary-only Lazarus would mean an entire overhaul of a binary package system. What would be amazing to see actually, is FPC being able to compile into a universal object (which supports the basic byte code, and sections which will only be used when converting to a certain architecture if necessary.. Like SSE optimized code), then being able to convert into native code at destination machine. Something like Chrome's Native Client does now, which compiles the code into a universal op-code base, and converts it to native at their servers.. Having this universal binary package system, means we can distribute one package, and have it convert on the destination machine. Means we don't really have to do tricks when distributing your unit when you don't want to distribute the source code (ie. Commercial Packages). Any thoughts? - Den ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
Reinier Olislagers wrote: On 06/09/2014 12:20, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: I think the previous discussion wound down with the consensus that the distro had custom libraries, possibly derived from ulibc, and that the compiler etc. would have to be specially built for those. I was hoping to set a Qemu-based system to investigate, but didn't get anywhere due to other commitments. Ok. It's running openwrt (also so that may well be the case; however I copied over [1] the libs [2] from the device to my desktop, so that should be a step in the right direction but presumably I need to match the cross binutils [3] ld with the uclibc ld one?!? This might be completely unhelpful, but I'll post it anyway just in case it's perversely relevant. I had FPC running on SPARC under Solaris 10, and investigated getting it running on Solaris 8. The problem turned out to be that a system library (let's say it was libc.so, but I'm working from memory) was symlinked to libc.so.2 on Solaris 10 but libc.so.1 on Solaris 8, and the linking stage was resolving the symlink rather than leaving it until the program was run. In the end I did something like copying libc.so.2 to libc.so.1 and changing libc.so to point to the latter. I built FPC (possibly just ppcsparc) and copied that to the v8 system, then restored the original symlink. At that point FPC ran OK on v8. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
Hi! 06.09.2014 14:53, Reinier Olislagers: [...] Ok. It's running openwrt (also so that may well be the case; however I Prebuilt/preflashed openwrt images most definitely do not have normal glibc, which is supposedly expected by normal linux rtl. Although I haven't checked myself, I think you could either try to somehow remove glibc dependancy for your test, or rebuild (and reflash) openwrt yourself with glibc/eglibc enabled, which might in turn require some digging and patching, see e.g. https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=31174 On the other hand, if you are going to do some fpc-related testing/development/etc on mips, I can create and account for you on one of my debian mips boxes for remote access (Those are only used for daily builds so are idle most time of day). Nikolai ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
Arggghhh. Ok, thanks, Sergei! ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
06.09.2014 14:53, Reinier Olislagers пишет: On 06/09/2014 12:20, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: I think the previous discussion wound down with the consensus that the distro had custom libraries, possibly derived from ulibc, and that the compiler etc. would have to be specially built for those. I was hoping to set a Qemu-based system to investigate, but didn't get anywhere due to other commitments. Ok. It's running openwrt (also so that may well be the case; however I copied over [1] the libs [2] from the device to my desktop, so that should be a step in the right direction but presumably I need to match the cross binutils [3] ld with the uclibc ld one?!? Also tested with fpc at ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/pub/fpc/snapshot/trunk/mips-linux/ which (perhaps unsurprisingly given the above) shows the same problem. The reason could be that uclinux kernel passes argc,argv and envp on startup different to regular linux, which is not yet supported for mips targets. Regards, Sergei ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
On 06/09/2014 12:20, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: > I think the previous discussion wound down with the consensus that the > distro had custom libraries, possibly derived from ulibc, and that the > compiler etc. would have to be specially built for those. I was hoping > to set a Qemu-based system to investigate, but didn't get anywhere due > to other commitments. Ok. It's running openwrt (also so that may well be the case; however I copied over [1] the libs [2] from the device to my desktop, so that should be a step in the right direction but presumably I need to match the cross binutils [3] ld with the uclibc ld one?!? Also tested with fpc at ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/pub/fpc/snapshot/trunk/mips-linux/ which (perhaps unsurprisingly given the above) shows the same problem. [1] from my notes openwrt router mips (big endian) uclibc libuClibc-0.9.33.2 copied /lib /usr/lib (only the root dirs) [2] crtbegin.o crtbeginS.o crtbeginT.o crtend.o crtendS.o crtfastmath.o ld-uClibc.so.0 ld-uClibc-0.9.33.2.so libblkid.so.1 libblkid.so.1.1.0 libblobmsg_json.so libc.so.0 libcrypt.so.0 libcrypt-0.9.33.2.so libcrypto.so.1.0.0 libcurses.so libdl.so.0 libdl-0.9.33.2.so libelf.so.0 libelf.so.0.8.13 libform.so libform.so.5 libform.so.5.7 libfreeswitch.so.1 libfreeswitch.so.1.0.0 libgcc.a libgcc_eh.a libgcc_s.so.1 libgcov.a libhistory.so libhistory.so.5 libhistory.so.5.2 libip4tc.so libip4tc.so.0 libip4tc.so.0.0.0 libiwinfo.so libjpeg.so.62 libjpeg.so.62.0.0 libjson.so.0 libjson.so.0.0.1 liblua.so.5.1.4 liblzo2.so liblzo2.so.2 liblzo2.so.2.0.0 libm.so.0 libm-0.9.33.2.so libmenu.so libmenu.so.5 libmenu.so.5.7 libncurses.so libncurses.so.5 libncurses.so.5.7 libnl-tiny.so libpanel.so libpanel.so.5 libpanel.so.5.7 libpcap.so libpcap.so.1.1 libpcap.so.1.1.1 libpng.so.3 libpng.so.3.46.0 libpng12.so.0 libpng12.so.0.46.0 libpq.so.5 libpq.so.5.3 libpthread.so.0 libpthread-0.9.33.2.so libreadline.so libreadline.so.5 libreadline.so.5.2 librt.so.0 librt-0.9.33.2.so libsqlite.so.0 libsqlite.so.0.8.6 libsqlite3.so.0 libsqlite3.so.0.8.6 libssl.so.1.0.0 libstdc++.so.6 libstdc++.so.6.0.16 libubox.so libubus.so libuci.so libuClibc-0.9.33.2.so libusb.so libusb-0.1.so.4 libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4 libutil.so.0 libutil-0.9.33.2.so libuuid.so.1 libuuid.so.1.3.0 libxtables.so libxtables.so.5 libxtables.so.5.0.0 libz.so libz.so.1 libz.so.1.2.7 [3] mips-linux-ar.exe mips-linux-as.exe mips-linux-ld.exe mips-linux-nm.exe mips-linux-objcopy.exe mips-linux-objdump.exe mips-linux-strip.exe ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
Reinier Olislagers wrote: Hi, Periodically I try to cross-compile a simple program [1] for my router with fpc trunk. It starts but does nothing (does not return to command prompt). Noticed an earlier mail from Dennis Poon where he described the same behaviour. I think the previous discussion wound down with the consensus that the distro had custom libraries, possibly derived from ulibc, and that the compiler etc. would have to be specially built for those. I was hoping to set a Qemu-based system to investigate, but didn't get anywhere due to other commitments. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
Hi,
Periodically I try to cross-compile a simple program [1] for my router
with fpc trunk.
It starts but does nothing (does not return to command prompt).
Noticed an earlier mail from Dennis Poon where he described the same
behaviour.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Reinier
cat /proc/cpuinfo
system type : Atheros AR9344 rev 2
machine : TP-LINK TL-WDR3600/4300/4310
processor : 0
cpu model : MIPS 74Kc V4.12
BogoMIPS: 278.93
wait instruction: yes
microsecond timers : yes
tlb_entries : 32
extra interrupt vector : yes
hardware watchpoint : yes, count: 4, address/irw mask: [0x,
0x0ff8, 0x0ff8, 0x0ff8]
ASEs implemented: mips16 dsp
shadow register sets: 1
kscratch registers : 0
core: 0
VCED exceptions : not available
VCEI exceptions : not available
]1]
program hellomips;
{$mode objfpc}
// let's use short strings {.$H+}
{not$DEFINE UseCThreads} //otherwise it seems we get pthreads which gdb
can't debug
uses
{$IFDEF UNIX}{$IFDEF UseCThreads}
cthreads,
{$ENDIF}{$ENDIF}
Classes
;
begin
writeln('hello mips');
end.
with options
-MObjFPC -Scghi -Tlinux -Pmips -CpMIPS32R2 -Xs -vewnhibq
-Filib\mips-linux -Fu. -FUlib\mips-linux -l
relevant fpc.cfg snippet
# begin fpcup do not remove mips-linux
#cross compile settings dependent on both target OS and target CPU
#IFDEF CPUMIPS
#IFDEF LINUX
# Inserted by fpcup 06/09/2014 11:05:24
-CpMIPS32R2
-CfSOFT
-FDC:\development\cross\bin\mips-linux\
-XPmips-linux-
-Tlinux
-FlC:\development\cross\lib\mips-linux\
-Xr/usr/lib
-FL/usr/lib/ld-linux.so.2
#ENDIF
#ENDIF
# end fpcup do not remove
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[fpc-devel] MIPS big-endian program starts but does nothing
Hi,
Periodically I try to cross-compile a simple program [1] for my router
with fpc trunk.
It starts but does nothing (does not return to command prompt).
Noticed an earlier mail from Dennis Poon where he described the same
behaviour.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Reinier
cat /proc/cpuinfo
system type : Atheros AR9344 rev 2
machine : TP-LINK TL-WDR3600/4300/4310
processor : 0
cpu model : MIPS 74Kc V4.12
BogoMIPS: 278.93
wait instruction: yes
microsecond timers : yes
tlb_entries : 32
extra interrupt vector : yes
hardware watchpoint : yes, count: 4, address/irw mask: [0x,
0x0ff8, 0x0ff8, 0x0ff8]
ASEs implemented: mips16 dsp
shadow register sets: 1
kscratch registers : 0
core: 0
VCED exceptions : not available
VCEI exceptions : not available
]1]
program hellomips;
{$mode objfpc}
// let's use short strings {.$H+}
{not$DEFINE UseCThreads} //otherwise it seems we get pthreads which gdb
can't debug
uses
{$IFDEF UNIX}{$IFDEF UseCThreads}
cthreads,
{$ENDIF}{$ENDIF}
Classes
;
begin
writeln('hello mips');
end.
with options
-MObjFPC -Scghi -Tlinux -Pmips -CpMIPS32R2 -Xs -vewnhibq
-Filib\mips-linux -Fu. -FUlib\mips-linux -l
relevant fpc.cfg snippet
# begin fpcup do not remove mips-linux
#cross compile settings dependent on both target OS and target CPU
#IFDEF CPUMIPS
#IFDEF LINUX
# Inserted by fpcup 06/09/2014 11:05:24
-CpMIPS32R2
-CfSOFT
-FDC:\development\cross\bin\mips-linux\
-XPmips-linux-
-Tlinux
-FlC:\development\cross\lib\mips-linux\
-Xr/usr/lib
-FL/usr/lib/ld-linux.so.2
#ENDIF
#ENDIF
# end fpcup do not remove
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