Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Zitat von Marco van de Voort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > In our previous episode, Mattias Gärtner said: > > > > Any progress? > > > > > > IIRC, we once had the idea to feed the compiler an error message file > > > with only error numbers as error "messages" so parsing would be easier. > > > > The error number is needed, yes. > > But without text debugging becomes harder. > > So you would need a dual system, all info in the beginning of the line > easily (and safely) parsable, and the text version behind it to pass through > to the user? Yes. I know, I can do that simply by sed-ing the errore.msg. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Zitat von Marc Weustink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Mattias Gaertner wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:12:25 +0200 (CEST) > > Daniël Mantione <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> [...] > The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't > Lazarus? > > There is the compiler unit, which *is* available, and this is the > only officially supported compiler interface. We are not against > other officially supported interfaces, but parsing messages is > definately not an offical interface and recommended against. It is > not the first time we have this discussion, we discussed possible > protocols before. > >>> Can you give a link? > >> http://lists.freepascal.org/lists/fpc-devel/2006-May/007788.html > > > > Thanks. > > The thread did not discuss all problems, but it has one good idea: > > We need a machine readable output format for fpc. > > Any progress? > > IIRC, we once had the idea to feed the compiler an error message file > with only error numbers as error "messages" so parsing would be easier. The error number is needed, yes. But without text debugging becomes harder. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Mattias Gaertner wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:12:25 +0200 (CEST) Daniël Mantione <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't Lazarus? There is the compiler unit, which *is* available, and this is the only officially supported compiler interface. We are not against other officially supported interfaces, but parsing messages is definately not an offical interface and recommended against. It is not the first time we have this discussion, we discussed possible protocols before. Can you give a link? http://lists.freepascal.org/lists/fpc-devel/2006-May/007788.html Thanks. The thread did not discuss all problems, but it has one good idea: We need a machine readable output format for fpc. Any progress? IIRC, we once had the idea to feed the compiler an error message file with only error numbers as error "messages" so parsing would be easier. Marc ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Martin Schreiber schrieb: On Thursday 14 August 2008 19.04:27 Florian Klaempfl wrote: Martin Schreiber schrieb: On Thursday 14 August 2008 11.29:40 Florian Klaempfl wrote: Martin Schreiber schrieb: There are no pseudo terminals on win32, I must use pipes. The current 2.0.3 RTL does not flush output on writeln if the filehandle is a pipe (2.0.2 does!). So the IDE target console window is unusable on win32 with FPC 2.0.3 RTL and works OK with FPC 2.0.2 RTL. " ;-) Indeed, people complained about the speed when redirecting output to a file. So the answer is: "It is not possible to get flushed writeln and compiler messages on win32 pipes with FPC"? So far nobody needed this, MSEide+MSEgui and it's users = nobody, I see. Thanks for the clear message. ;-) Didn't you say recently that you didn't know that people still develop under windows ;)? Anyways, I'll implement a switch for now. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
On Thursday 14 August 2008 19.04:27 Florian Klaempfl wrote: > Martin Schreiber schrieb: > > On Thursday 14 August 2008 11.29:40 Florian Klaempfl wrote: > >> Martin Schreiber schrieb: > >>> There are no pseudo terminals on win32, I must use pipes. The current > >>> 2.0.3 RTL does not flush output on writeln if the filehandle is a pipe > >>> (2.0.2 does!). So the IDE target console window is unusable on win32 > >>> with FPC 2.0.3 RTL and works OK with FPC 2.0.2 RTL. > >>> " > >>> ;-) > >> > >> Indeed, people complained about the speed when redirecting output to a > >> file. > > > > So the answer is: > > "It is not possible to get flushed writeln and compiler messages on win32 > > pipes with FPC"? > > So far nobody needed this, MSEide+MSEgui and it's users = nobody, I see. Thanks for the clear message. ;-) Martin ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Marco van de Voort schrieb: In our previous episode, Martin Schreiber said: Indeed, people complained about the speed when redirecting output to a file. So the answer is: "It is not possible to get flushed writeln and compiler messages on win32 pipes with FPC"? Maybe, (with a custom textio driver, so that the generic rtl isn't compromised) but as Daniel said, parsing the text compiler output isn't the most desirable outcome. This is not needed, it's just a switch which does TextRec(Output).FlushFunc:=TextRec(Output).InOutFunc ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Martin Schreiber schrieb: On Thursday 14 August 2008 11.29:40 Florian Klaempfl wrote: Martin Schreiber schrieb: There are no pseudo terminals on win32, I must use pipes. The current 2.0.3 RTL does not flush output on writeln if the filehandle is a pipe (2.0.2 does!). So the IDE target console window is unusable on win32 with FPC 2.0.3 RTL and works OK with FPC 2.0.2 RTL. " ;-) Indeed, people complained about the speed when redirecting output to a file. So the answer is: "It is not possible to get flushed writeln and compiler messages on win32 pipes with FPC"? So far nobody needed this, e.g. I use an IDE with an integrated compiler ;) However, I guess we can add a switch which tells the compiler to flush when writing to a file/pipe. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
In our previous episode, Martin Schreiber said: > > Indeed, people complained about the speed when redirecting output to a > > file. > > So the answer is: > "It is not possible to get flushed writeln and compiler messages on win32 > pipes with FPC"? Maybe, (with a custom textio driver, so that the generic rtl isn't compromised) but as Daniel said, parsing the text compiler output isn't the most desirable outcome. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
On Thursday 14 August 2008 11.29:40 Florian Klaempfl wrote: > Martin Schreiber schrieb: > > There are no pseudo terminals on win32, I must use pipes. The current > > 2.0.3 RTL does not flush output on writeln if the filehandle is a pipe > > (2.0.2 does!). So the IDE target console window is unusable on win32 with > > FPC 2.0.3 RTL and works OK with FPC 2.0.2 RTL. > > " > > ;-) > > Indeed, people complained about the speed when redirecting output to a > file. So the answer is: "It is not possible to get flushed writeln and compiler messages on win32 pipes with FPC"? Martin ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Martin Schreiber schrieb: There are no pseudo terminals on win32, I must use pipes. The current 2.0.3 RTL does not flush output on writeln if the filehandle is a pipe (2.0.2 does!). So the IDE target console window is unusable on win32 with FPC 2.0.3 RTL and works OK with FPC 2.0.2 RTL. " ;-) Indeed, people complained about the speed when redirecting output to a file. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 23.12:25 Daniël Mantione wrote: > > > > Can you give a link? > > http://lists.freepascal.org/lists/fpc-devel/2006-May/007788.html > Hmm, the question remains: " Since some time FPC doesn't flush output on pipes after writeln. On linux I can use a pseudo terminal, what can I do on win32 to get flushed output from FPC into the message window of MSEide? " " I need no machine readable output (up to now), I need a way to get flushed writeln output from the RTL on widows to display it in the MSEide message window (compiler output) and the target window (program output). On linux I use a PTY to connect compiler and target -> all is OK, on win32 I can only use pipes AFAIK where the RTL doesn't flush output on writeln. " " The problem exists not only for the compiler but for all console programs. I found no way to display the interactive output in a IDE window on win32. On Linux I can use a pseudo terminal to get flushed output from target. There are no pseudo terminals on win32, I must use pipes. The current 2.0.3 RTL does not flush output on writeln if the filehandle is a pipe (2.0.2 does!). So the IDE target console window is unusable on win32 with FPC 2.0.3 RTL and works OK with FPC 2.0.2 RTL. " ;-) Martin ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:12:25 +0200 (CEST) Daniël Mantione <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >[...] > >> The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't > >> Lazarus? > >> > >> There is the compiler unit, which *is* available, and this is the > >> only officially supported compiler interface. We are not against > >> other officially supported interfaces, but parsing messages is > >> definately not an offical interface and recommended against. It is > >> not the first time we have this discussion, we discussed possible > >> protocols before. > > > > Can you give a link? > > http://lists.freepascal.org/lists/fpc-devel/2006-May/007788.html Thanks. The thread did not discuss all problems, but it has one good idea: We need a machine readable output format for fpc. Any progress? Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: Because it is a unit: * A crashing compiler would mean a crashing IDE. * A compiler with memory leak would mean a IDE with memory leak. Your point is correct, but the textmode IDE does survive compiler crashes and you can continue development (allthough it's not recommended). It could also clean up memory leaks in the past, it did heap swapping which code is no longer present today. Still, you should think twice doing not recommended things. You can be 100% sure compiler messages will break one time and you should think about migrating away from parsing, rather than do more parsing. Daniël___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Mattias Gaertner: On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:29:59 +0200 (CEST) Daniël Mantione <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. It's not about what is less work. It's about what has the best compatibility, the best maintainability, the best reliability and most features. The not yet designed protocol has a bad score on the feature list, because it is not available. The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't Lazarus? There is the compiler unit, which *is* available, and this is the only officially supported compiler interface. We are not against other officially supported interfaces, but parsing messages is definately not an offical interface and recommended against. It is not the first time we have this discussion, we discussed possible protocols before. Can you give a link? http://lists.freepascal.org/lists/fpc-devel/2006-May/007788.html Daniël___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. It's not about what is less work. It's about what has the best compatibility, the best maintainability, the best reliability and most features. The not yet designed protocol has a bad score on the feature list, because it is not available. The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't Lazarus? Because it is a unit: * A crashing compiler would mean a crashing IDE. * A compiler with memory leak would mean a IDE with memory leak. Vincent ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. It's not about what is less work. It's about what has the best compatibility, the best maintainability, the best reliability and most features. The not yet designed protocol has a bad score on the feature list, because it is not available. The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't Lazarus? Because it is a unit. Switching compilers would mean recompiling lazarus. Vincent ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:29:59 +0200 (CEST) Daniël Mantione <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: > > > Daniël Mantione schreef: > >> Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: > >> > >>> It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to > >>> design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. > >> > >> It's not about what is less work. It's about what has the best > >> compatibility, the best maintainability, the best reliability and > >> most features. > > > > The not yet designed protocol has a bad score on the feature list, > > because it is not available. > > The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't > Lazarus? > > There is the compiler unit, which *is* available, and this is the > only officially supported compiler interface. We are not against > other officially supported interfaces, but parsing messages is > definately not an offical interface and recommended against. It is > not the first time we have this discussion, we discussed possible > protocols before. Can you give a link? Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. It's not about what is less work. It's about what has the best compatibility, the best maintainability, the best reliability and most features. The not yet designed protocol has a bad score on the feature list, because it is not available. The text mode IDE can display statisics while compiling. Why can't Lazarus? There is the compiler unit, which *is* available, and this is the only officially supported compiler interface. We are not against other officially supported interfaces, but parsing messages is definately not an offical interface and recommended against. It is not the first time we have this discussion, we discussed possible protocols before. Daniël___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. It's not about what is less work. It's about what has the best compatibility, the best maintainability, the best reliability and most features. The not yet designed protocol has a bad score on the feature list, because it is not available. Vincent ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Vincent Snijders: It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. It's not about what is less work. It's about what has the best compatibility, the best maintainability, the best reliability and most features. Daniël___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Daniël Mantione schreef: Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Mattias Gärtner: FYI: Because there are several tools to parse FPC/Make/whatever output it is planned to tell fpc to always give english output and show the translated text in the messages window. Ok, for once and for all, and please read up the following words loudly while reading them: Never Parse Compiler Messages! It has always been communicated that the parsing of FPC output is a bad idea. The output is designed to be readbable for humans, not for computers. We want, and feel free to, have the options to change the text output of FPC completely. If you don't want to use the compiler unit, feel free to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. It easier to change the message parser if you change it, than to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. Vincent ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Op Wed, 13 Aug 2008, schreef Mattias Gärtner: FYI: Because there are several tools to parse FPC/Make/whatever output it is planned to tell fpc to always give english output and show the translated text in the messages window. Ok, for once and for all, and please read up the following words loudly while reading them: Never Parse Compiler Messages! It has always been communicated that the parsing of FPC output is a bad idea. The output is designed to be readbable for humans, not for computers. We want, and feel free to, have the options to change the text output of FPC completely. If you don't want to use the compiler unit, feel free to design a protocol for more computer friendly messages. Daniël___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Zitat von ik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Micha Nelissen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bernd Mueller wrote: > >> > >> I think, the proper way could be, that fpc makes this message fatal, if > >> the unit source is not present. > > > > The proper way is probably for Lazarus to parse also other messages in case > > of Fatal, to give more context :-). > > The problem is that there are multiple languages for FPC's error > messages, so it's not that simple. Maybe each error message will start > with the error code ? FYI: Because there are several tools to parse FPC/Make/whatever output it is planned to tell fpc to always give english output and show the translated text in the messages window. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Micha Nelissen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bernd Mueller wrote: >> >> I think, the proper way could be, that fpc makes this message fatal, if >> the unit source is not present. > > The proper way is probably for Lazarus to parse also other messages in case > of Fatal, to give more context :-). The problem is that there are multiple languages for FPC's error messages, so it's not that simple. Maybe each error message will start with the error code ? > > Micha > ___ > fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org > http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel > Ido -- http://ik.homelinux.org/ ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Bernd Mueller wrote: I think, the proper way could be, that fpc makes this message fatal, if the unit source is not present. The proper way is probably for Lazarus to parse also other messages in case of Fatal, to give more context :-). Micha ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Bernd Mueller wrote:
Florian Klaempfl wrote:
Bernd Mueller schrieb:
Hello,
The compiler message "PPU Invalid Version n" should be made a fatal
error. This would help Lazarus to display the real problem (wrong ppu
version), instead of displaying the error Massage "Fatal: Can't find
unit x", which is misleading in this case.
This has a "small" draw back. If this message is fatal the compiler
won't search anymore for the sources of the unit to recompile it.
sorry, I did not notice this, because I don't have the source of the unit.
As a workaround, I put the string "Fatal:" in front of the corresponding
compiler message 10008_U_PPU... So Lazarus displays the correct error
message ("PPU Invalid Version...") if the source of the unit is not
present. If the source is present, fpc does compile it.
I think, the proper way could be, that fpc makes this message fatal, if
the unit source is not present.
Regards, Bernd.
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Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Florian Klaempfl wrote: Bernd Mueller schrieb: Hello, The compiler message "PPU Invalid Version n" should be made a fatal error. This would help Lazarus to display the real problem (wrong ppu version), instead of displaying the error Massage "Fatal: Can't find unit x", which is misleading in this case. This has a "small" draw back. If this message is fatal the compiler won't search anymore for the sources of the unit to recompile it. sorry, I did not notice this, because I don't have the source of the unit. Regards, Bernd. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Proposal to make the compiler message "PPU Invalid Version" a fatal error.
Bernd Mueller schrieb: Hello, The compiler message "PPU Invalid Version n" should be made a fatal error. This would help Lazarus to display the real problem (wrong ppu version), instead of displaying the error Massage "Fatal: Can't find unit x", which is misleading in this case. This has a "small" draw back. If this message is fatal the compiler won't search anymore for the sources of the unit to recompile it. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
