Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
Jürgen Hestermann schreef: Well, they cannot put the blaim on the Lazarus converter, but only on their own ignorance with respect to porting to Lazarus. Why ignorance? I remember someone asking here how to learn programming with FPC/Lazarus and someone else answered that each Delphi learning book would do. How does that fit together when such huge differences between Lazarus and Delphi exist? I am glad I did not give that advice. I have a feeling that the conversion tool is bad publicity for Lazarus that it gives people a false feeling of easy conversion. Lazarus should avoid giving this impression. A much better way would be to improve the converter in that it gives hints about the different coding of strings. This would be enough. Yes, that would be great. Can we expect some improvements (patches) from you soon. Until now, very few people have contributed to it. Improving it would be nice, but people who have Delphi code rather stay with Delphi, and that might not be unwise. The main problem realy is, that (some!) stings are completely omitted when they are Ansi where UTF-8 is needed. Yes, garbage in garbage out. Why "garbage"? A correct and running Delphi program was converted to Lazarus with the converter, how can it be garbage? You feed ansi encoded strings where UTF-8 is needed. That is garbage. Don't trust the converter too much. Vincent ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:26:27 +0100 Jürgen Hestermann wrote: > > And your tone isn't very helpful. I responded only in a intention to > > help, and yet the response doesn't seam to have been apreciated. > > Forgive me if I am sounding a bit rude. Of course that's not meant > against any person on the list. Every help is realy appreciated. I > only was already frustrated about Delphi (7) which has lots of bugs > and a poor help too. Then I read many good things about FPC/Lazarus > so I was expecting it to be at least better than Delphi but found > that it's even worse. I am not sure anymore whether I should migrate > to FPC/Lazarus. Transfering my Delphi code may be more work than I > thought and I am not sure whether it's worth it if I am having even > more problems afterwards. About unicode: The LCL uses one unicode format: UTF8. The problem is that many other libraries (e.g. winapi) use other string formats. Delphi Tiburon tried to solve this problem with compiler magic by implicit conversions, which helps to quickly port old Delphi code, but might kill your speed or have some unexpected and hidden side effects. The FPC team is working on something similar, although because of the many platforms, the problem is a magnitude more difficult. There were very long mail threads about this topic. About the converter: The converter is a simple tool that already saves a lot of work, but I agree with Vincent that it is easily mistaken as a complete tool like converting a word document to openoffice. Basically it handles the filenames, uses sections and compiler options. And it does not yet do any syntax/library conversion. The tool should warn newbies and open the wiki pages. So there is a lot of room for improvements. Mattias ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
Well, they cannot put the blaim on the Lazarus converter, but only on their own ignorance with respect to porting to Lazarus. Why ignorance? I remember someone asking here how to learn programming with FPC/Lazarus and someone else answered that each Delphi learning book would do. How does that fit together when such huge differences between Lazarus and Delphi exist? I have a feeling that the conversion tool is bad publicity for Lazarus that it gives people a false feeling of easy conversion. Lazarus should avoid giving this impression. A much better way would be to improve the converter in that it gives hints about the different coding of strings. This would be enough. The main problem realy is, that (some!) stings are completely omitted when they are Ansi where UTF-8 is needed. Yes, garbage in garbage out. Why "garbage"? A correct and running Delphi program was converted to Lazarus with the converter, how can it be garbage? Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] FreePascal/Lazarus plug-in's for Delphi.
I would like to bring to your attention this project: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=365095 DWPL... it was quite impressive... it had a text gui which was compatible with Delphi... not sure if it's still compatible with Delphi 2007... probably not... maybe it has the same issue's as Lazarus now has... maybe Lazarus was even based on it... (?) Yes, this is really what we need. Ditch DOS filenames and switch to a DOS based text GUI. I think you missed the point here. The point was: DWPL simply replaced some unit aliases, and implemented a compatible text-based VCL (probably using CLX). This ment the application could be compiled for windows with a graphical gui. This ment the application could be compiled for dos with a text gui which looked graphical. Delphi uses: WinTypes=Windows;WinProcs=Windows;DbiTypes=BDE;DbiProcs=BDE;DbiErrs=BDE; DWPL would change it to: messages=sysutils;controls=qcontrols;dialogs=qdialogs;extctrls=qextctrls;forms=qforms;graphics=qgraphics;menus=qmenus;stdctrls=qstdctrls;WinTypes=Windows;WinProcs=Windows;DbiTypes=BDE;DbiProcs=BDE;DbiErrs=BDE; Then use tool to convert windows exe to wdosx32 exe. By using only the supported gui components at least the gui code would simply compile without any changes necessary. Probably same for RTL... for threading I am not sure ;) it was being implemented at the time. Something like that for Lazarus would be nice ! :) Bye, Skybuck. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: > MessageBox(0,'Programmfehler!','SPEED TEST',MB_ICONEXCLAMATION or > MB_TopMost or MB_SetForeGround); You are using a Windows API routine, from the Windows unit. I know that because I know the routines, but it is easy to find out. Just right click "MessageBox" and select "Find Declaration" The "Find in Files" dialog is also useful. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
Jürgen Hestermann schreef: Maybe we should consider removing the convert from the IDE, if it misleads more than helps. I don't think so, it's better than nothing. The problem is, that there are more pitfalls than the conversion routine handles (can handle?). Yes, and until that is fixed, it may be better to remove it, so we don't get such long threads and to spare you debug time. But how would that avoid the confusion? Just the opposite. It would add even more because the conversion avoids at least some of the problems. Well, they cannot put the blaim on the Lazarus converter, but only on their own ignorance with respect to porting to Lazarus. I have a feeling that the conversion tool is bad publicity for Lazarus that it gives people a false feeling of easy conversion. Lazarus should avoid giving this impression. The main problem realy is, that (some!) stings are completely omitted when they are Ansi where UTF-8 is needed. Yes, garbage in garbage out. If I do it the other way round (convert my code to UTF-8 and use these strings for RTL routines) I immediately see that something is wrong with the encoding ("funny" characters are displayed). But when nothing is displayed I have no idea why that happens. I think it should be simple: LCL UTF8, RTL Ansi. Where is this messagebox call defined? That's the correct question. How do I know which routine is from where? And why am I forced to think about such things when programming? In Delphi I am not. Because in Delphi RTL and VCL are unified. But Lazarus programming may be too complicated ... Do Find Declaration and see what the source directory is. Or press F1 a see what the package is (top left, the string after the #). Vincent ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
If you are using MessageBox from the LCL, then it uses UTF-8. Maybe your are using a Windows API. For example, I am just writing MessageBox(0,'Programmfehler!','SPEED TEST',MB_ICONEXCLAMATION or MB_TopMost or MB_SetForeGround); the interface part has the following "uses" entries LCLIntf, Messages, SysUtils, Classes, Graphics, Controls, Forms, Dialogs, StdCtrls, LResources; and the implementation part uses Windows,FileCtrl,DateUtils,clipbrd,interfaces; So what am I using and how do I know what I should use? Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
Maybe we should consider removing the convert from the IDE, if it misleads more than helps. I don't think so, it's better than nothing. The problem is, that there are more pitfalls than the conversion routine handles (can handle?). Yes, and until that is fixed, it may be better to remove it, so we don't get such long threads and to spare you debug time. But how would that avoid the confusion? Just the opposite. It would add even more because the conversion avoids at least some of the problems. The main problem realy is, that (some!) stings are completely omitted when they are Ansi where UTF-8 is needed. If I do it the other way round (convert my code to UTF-8 and use these strings for RTL routines) I immediately see that something is wrong with the encoding ("funny" characters are displayed). But when nothing is displayed I have no idea why that happens. I think it should be simple: LCL UTF8, RTL Ansi. Where is this messagebox call defined? That's the correct question. How do I know which routine is from where? And why am I forced to think about such things when programming? In Delphi I am not. Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Problems with FP-IDE with xterm
In our previous episode, Andrea said: > I can see that all non standard ASCII character are missing (e.g. stressed > vowel). Other times the windows appear diagonal (like the length of the > line was wrong). Sounds like ascii output is interpreted as something else (UTF perhaps?) > Should I use some flags, a different character set or a different X > terminal? > I've tried fp -F and it does not change much. > I've read the man page, but I did not understand much. There is some doc here: http://wiki.freepascal.org/Terminal_%26_Fonts However since that consoles that have UTF-8 as native encoding have popped up that might cause problems (or not, I only guessing here) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
> I just converted to UTF-8 but now got problems with constant strings in > MessageBox calls which require Ansi instead of UTF-8. If you are using MessageBox from the LCL, then it uses UTF-8. Maybe your are using a Windows API. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
Jürgen Hestermann schreef: I used the Delphi-to-Lazarus convertion for my (Delphi) program. Why isn't it also converting to UTF-8 if that's necessary? Maybe we should consider removing the convert from the IDE, if it misleads more than helps. I don't think so, it's better than nothing. The problem is, that there are more pitfalls than the conversion routine handles (can handle?). Yes, and until that is fixed, it may be better to remove it, so we don't get such long threads and to spare you debug time. I just converted to UTF-8 but now got problems with constant strings in MessageBox calls which require Ansi instead of UTF-8. It's quite awkward if different codings are used within one source code file. I would have expected that one single encoding (UTF-8?) is used throughout all source code and all routines that need a different encoding do the conversion themselve. Now each programmer has to learn for each and every routine what encoding is used (and that's not even documented within the help for these routines). I think it should be simple: LCL UTF8, RTL Ansi. Where is this messagebox call defined? Vicnet ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
I used the Delphi-to-Lazarus convertion for my (Delphi) program. Why isn't it also converting to UTF-8 if that's necessary? Maybe we should consider removing the convert from the IDE, if it misleads more than helps. I don't think so, it's better than nothing. The problem is, that there are more pitfalls than the conversion routine handles (can handle?). I just converted to UTF-8 but now got problems with constant strings in MessageBox calls which require Ansi instead of UTF-8. It's quite awkward if different codings are used within one source code file. I would have expected that one single encoding (UTF-8?) is used throughout all source code and all routines that need a different encoding do the conversion themselve. Now each programmer has to learn for each and every routine what encoding is used (and that's not even documented within the help for these routines). Why confront the programmer with more complexity than needed? Especially those who start learning programming from scratch realy have a hard time if such (IMO unnecessary) things are not avoided. Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] Debugger support for FP (issues with libgdb.a)
Hi, I've tried to use the debugger in FP 2.2.2 and I got this error "No debugger support available" The I read online and found that I need to get libgdb.a from a build of gdb and copy it in fpc. I've done that and copied to /fpcsrc/libgdb/linux/libgdb.a Now I get this linker error (+ many more similar) make[3]: Entering directory `/home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/ide' /home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/compiler/ppc386 -di386 -Fl/home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/libgdb/linux -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Sg -Fu/home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/rtl/units/i386-linux -Fu/home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/packages/fv/units/i386-linux -Fu/home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/packages/gdbint/units/i386-linux -Fu/home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/packages/regexpr/units/i386-linux -FE. -FUunits/i386-linux -Fl/usr/lib/gcc/i386-redhat-linux/4.3.0 -Flinclude -Flld.so.conf.d/*.conf -k"--build-id -z noexecstack" -gl -dRELEASE fp.pas /home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/libgdb/linux/libgdb.a(exec.o): In function `generic_skip_trampoline_code': /home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/gdb-6.8/build-i386-redhat-linux-gnu/gdb/../../gdb/arch-utils.c:58: multiple definition of `generic_skip_trampoline_code' /home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/fpcbuild-2.2.2/fpcsrc/libgdb/linux/libgdb.a(arch-utils.o):/home/andrea/rpmbuild/BUILD/gdb-6.8/build-i386-redhat-linux-gnu/gdb/../../gdb/arch-utils.c:58: first defined here Have I done it correctly? I was wondering if there is a documentation about that. Andrea ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
And your tone isn't very helpful. I responded only in a intention to help, and yet the response doesn't seam to have been apreciated. Forgive me if I am sounding a bit rude. Of course that's not meant against any person on the list. Every help is realy appreciated. I only was already frustrated about Delphi (7) which has lots of bugs and a poor help too. Then I read many good things about FPC/Lazarus so I was expecting it to be at least better than Delphi but found that it's even worse. I am not sure anymore whether I should migrate to FPC/Lazarus. Transfering my Delphi code may be more work than I thought and I am not sure whether it's worth it if I am having even more problems afterwards. Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
> In a documentation I would expect to find such important information (at > least as a link). Otherwise I don't need it at all and can find out how it > works myself by trial and error. The wiki is the most important part of the documentation. The other part being the reference of classes/units/etc If you coming from Delphi you should have read: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_For_Delphi_Users And also anything else necessary in: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Documentation If you think this document needs improvements, then you can edit it. And your tone isn't very helpful. I responded only in a intention to help, and yet the response doesn't seam to have been apreciated. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
Jürgen Hestermann schreef: And how do I change my current code to UTF-8? In the menu Tools --> Convert encoding of file/project I used the Delphi-to-Lazarus convertion for my (Delphi) program. Why isn't it also converting to UTF-8 if that's necessary? Maybe we should consider removing the convert from the IDE, if it misleads more than helps. Vincent ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
And how do I change my current code to UTF-8? In the menu Tools --> Convert encoding of file/project I used the Delphi-to-Lazarus convertion for my (Delphi) program. Why isn't it also converting to UTF-8 if that's necessary? But I never used it. I would just open in a text editor which can handle multiple encodings, like notepad++ You mean: Don't use Lazarus but use an alternative standard editor? What purpose is the IDE then? Thanks for the link. But why isn't it documented in the Help of TListBox? No word there that the strings may be UTF-8 only (and that you somehow have to store your code files in that coding if you use stings constants). Because it applies to all of LCL. We would need to repeat that for all classes from the LCL. In a documentation I would expect to find such important information (at least as a link). Otherwise I don't need it at all and can find out how it works myself by trial and error. You cannot not use Unicode with Lazarus. Only UTF-8 is supported, Isn't UTF-8 unicode in the same way as UTF-16? There is obviously some work to be done when migrating to Unicode, but you will be very happy if you ever need to localize your application to Russian or chinese, because the application is already unicode capable and can easely support those languages. Yes. I don't have a problem with Unicode at all, just the opposite. I only miss a clear help that tells me that TStrings in the LCL have to be UTF-8 per definition. And it would have saved me lots of debugging hours if the strange bug would not have omitted the whole string whenever they contain extended characters. It took me a very long time to realize that it's a bug in the LCL and that it's related to extended characters and that it can be avoided by using AnsiToUTF8. Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
> Well, I installed and started Lazarus in the standard way so why isn't it > using UTF-8 by default if that's the only way to store strings? Why let the > user step into this trap? And how do I change my current code to UTF-8? In the menu Tools --> Convert encoding of file/project But I never used it. I would just open in a text editor which can handle multiple encodings, like notepad++ > Thanks for the link. But why isn't it documented in the Help of TListBox? No > word there that the strings may be UTF-8 only (and that you somehow have to > store your code files in that coding if you use stings constants). Because it applies to all of LCL. We would need to repeat that for all classes from the LCL. > Yes, of course that's correct. That's the reason I didn't use Unicode for > Lazarus either. You cannot not use Unicode with Lazarus. Only UTF-8 is supported, which convers all languages, so it's enougth =) > A quite distracting first contact with Lazarus/FPC. There is obviously some work to be done when migrating to Unicode, but you will be very happy if you ever need to localize your application to Russian or chinese, because the application is already unicode capable and can easely support those languages. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
You don't need the AnsiToUTF8 if you encode your source file as UTF-8 without a BOM. Well, I installed and started Lazarus in the standard way so why isn't it using UTF-8 by default if that's the only way to store strings? Why let the user step into this trap? And how do I change my current code to UTF-8? The difference from Delphi is caused by Lazarus supporting unicode and also some limitations of Free Pascal, but nothing which prevents the correct development of unicode apps if you follow the documentation: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/LCL_Unicode_Support Thanks for the link. But why isn't it documented in the Help of TListBox? No word there that the strings may be UTF-8 only (and that you somehow have to store your code files in that coding if you use stings constants). Delphi 7 doesn't support unicode, so I doubt you were using unicode routines there. Isn't that correct? Yes, of course that's correct. That's the reason I didn't use Unicode for Lazarus either. But that failed. So I had a hard time to find out myself that I have to use AnsiToUTF8 for each and every constant string I use. A quite distracting first contact with Lazarus/FPC. Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] Problems with FP-IDE with xterm
Hi, I've just started using fpc and I noticed that xterm does not show the IDE very well. I'm using xterm X.Org 6.8.99.903(236) and fpc 2.2.2 Here are 2 examples http://xoomer.alice.it/enodetti/log/fp1.png http://xoomer.alice.it/enodetti/log/fp2.png I can see that all non standard ASCII character are missing (e.g. stressed vowel). Other times the windows appear diagonal (like the length of the line was wrong). Should I use some flags, a different character set or a different X terminal? I've tried fp -F and it does not change much. I've read the man page, but I did not understand much. Andrea ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] MSEide+MSEgui version 2.0beta2
Hi, MSEide+MSEgui version 2.0beta2 has been released: https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=165409 Martin ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
You don't need the AnsiToUTF8 if you encode your source file as UTF-8 without a BOM. The difference from Delphi is caused by Lazarus supporting unicode and also some limitations of Free Pascal, but nothing which prevents the correct development of unicode apps if you follow the documentation: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/LCL_Unicode_Support On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: > In the bug report it says that Delphi 7 behaves the same but this is not > true. I ported my program from Delphi 7 (where it ran without problem) to > FPC. So I am not sure whether we are talking about the same bug here. Delphi 7 doesn't support unicode, so I doubt you were using unicode routines there. Isn't that correct? The bug is about a unicode routine. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
The UTF8Decode routine kills any string with malformed UTF8 sequences. http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=11791 In the bug report it says that Delphi 7 behaves the same but this is not true. I ported my program from Delphi 7 (where it ran without problem) to FPC. So I am not sure whether we are talking about the same bug here. Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] TListBox bug in LCL of Lazarus?
The UTF8Decode routine kills any string with malformed UTF8 sequences. http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=11791 Thanks for that hint. I am a bit astonished that this bug has survived 2 updates (was reported for 2.2.0 and still exists in 2.2.2). I also didn't find any information that the strings are forced to be UTF8. And how do I insert constant strings in UTF8? Do I realy have to look up all sequences when using extented characters? It took me many hours to find out that the stings were missing only when having german umlauts in them. Not a very reliable programming environment for serious programming if I invest more time in debugging the LCL than in debugging my own programs. Jürgen Hestermann. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal