Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
Marco van de Voort escreveu: In our previous episode, dmitry boyarintsev said: Does Embarcadero offer 2 different way of cross-platform development. Delphi Prism (XDelphi?) with its Mono .Net based development and Does Prism explicitely target Mono, or is it merely possible to DIY? Take a look at http://blogs.remobjects.com/blogs/sebastiang/2010/03/29/p1289 Luiz ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: But the best possible solution (everything everywhere 100% native) is simply not realistic from a business perspective. Why not? Lazarus does it. 1) Lazarus is not a sold product. Moreover since it took like 13 years to get here, I think it rather proves than disproves the point. Only from a business perspective. From a user perspective, I don't care whether it is marketable or not, I need usability. Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: > > But the best possible solution (everything everywhere 100% native) is simply > > not realistic from a business perspective. > > Why not? Lazarus does it. 1) Lazarus is not a sold product. Moreover since it took like 13 years to get here, I think it rather proves than disproves the point. 2) You see the critique of every new user: "is not like Delphi". Lazarus can afford to ignore these till they are ready to fix it. Also Kylix showed that the group that uses the "other" platforms exclusively constantly wants more "native" features, something which is costly for a by-product (*) By positioning the crossplatform stuff _clearly_ as a by-product, one also avoids this trap. It also makes justifying making sub-optimal decisions (like QT instead of COCOA) easier. (*) Every Embarcadero Delphi version seems to have a theme. D2009 was unicode, D2010 was usability, and D2011 is cross-platform (and D2012 will probably be 64-bit). This is mainly to make sure that every release has something marketable to keep the upgrade train rolling. Because that is where the bulk of Delphi sales is. Not in new users with new needs. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: Well, It is the least work for them. Except that they'll have a HUGE amount of bugs to fix, if you look at the FreeCLX bugtracker on sourceforge :-) FreeCLX was afaik based on K1, and K2..K3 followed, and maybe some post K3 development. I don't think FreeCLX is a good measure for the state of CLX. FreeCLX = CLX. There is no difference, Borland never gave up control over it. FreeCLX = CLX v1. The remark was about versioning, not control. People mostly debug the windows app, and only the crossplatform bits remotely.r The GUI is cross-platform, hence there will be bugs in the GUI that pop up only when run on some platform. Yes. And that will have to be done using remote debugging. And yes, that is not the best possible solution. But it is not impossible, I do it nearly every day with D2009. But the best possible solution (everything everywhere 100% native) is simply not realistic from a business perspective. Why not? Lazarus does it. Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said: > > > >From a screenshot on the following page, it shows a "Delphi Prism > > Mono" project type. So I guess Delphi Prism 2010 explicitly targets > Mono too. That's just me guessing, based on a screenshot - I have > never actually used any Delphi since v7. > >http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi-prism I have a Prism (2009) license, but never bothered to install it :-) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
On 6 April 2010 14:33, Marco van de Voort wrote: > > Does Prism explicitely target Mono, or is it merely possible to DIY? >From a screenshot on the following page, it shows a "Delphi Prism > Mono" project type. So I guess Delphi Prism 2010 explicitly targets Mono too. That's just me guessing, based on a screenshot - I have never actually used any Delphi since v7. http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi-prism -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: > > In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: > >> Well, It is the least work for them. > >> Except that they'll have a HUGE amount of bugs to fix, if you look at the > >> FreeCLX bugtracker on sourceforge :-) > > > > FreeCLX was afaik based on K1, and K2..K3 followed, and maybe some post K3 > > development. I don't think FreeCLX is a good measure for the state of CLX. > > FreeCLX = CLX. There is no difference, Borland never gave up > control over it. FreeCLX = CLX v1. The remark was about versioning, not control. > > People mostly debug the windows app, and only the crossplatform bits > > remotely.r > > The GUI is cross-platform, hence there will be bugs in the GUI that pop up > only when run on some platform. Yes. And that will have to be done using remote debugging. And yes, that is not the best possible solution. But it is not impossible, I do it nearly every day with D2009. But the best possible solution (everything everywhere 100% native) is simply not realistic from a business perspective. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: Well, It is the least work for them. Except that they'll have a HUGE amount of bugs to fix, if you look at the FreeCLX bugtracker on sourceforge :-) FreeCLX was afaik based on K1, and K2..K3 followed, and maybe some post K3 development. I don't think FreeCLX is a good measure for the state of CLX. FreeCLX = CLX. There is no difference, Borland never gave up control over it. In each case, the decision for remote debugging is IMHO fatal. I would never want to work like that; it simply is not practical. I don't think an all out approach (Kylix like) for multiple platforms etc makes sense. I think this approach suits the expected target crowd (Delphi users that occasionally want to make a crossplatform binary) better. People mostly debug the windows app, and only the crossplatform bits remotely.r The GUI is cross-platform, hence there will be bugs in the GUI that pop up only when run on some platform. Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
On 6 April 2010 14:24, dmitry boyarintsev wrote: > Does Embarcadero offer 2 different way of cross-platform development. I would say one way only... read further to see why. > Delphi Prism (XDelphi?) with its Mono .Net based development and Delphi Prism is not developed by Embarcadero, that's the job of RemObjects Software. Embarcadero simply struck a deal with RemObjects Software to do the distribution but slap their registered trademark name 'Delphi' on the box. The following URL explains this. As far as I understand, it's a Visual Studio language plugin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Prism So Embarcadero is simply piggybacking on the work of RemObjects Software (most of it). But yes, you could use the Delphi Language (aka object pascal) to create .NET and Mono applications. > Delphi 2011 with new CLX? The posting I quoted was the first new information in months that I head about Embarcadero's cross-platform plans. I guess they'll release CLX and VCL with Delphi 2011 (developer tools like IDE not needing Visual Studio). -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
In our previous episode, dmitry boyarintsev said: > Does Embarcadero offer 2 different way of cross-platform development. > > Delphi Prism (XDelphi?) with its Mono .Net based development and Does Prism explicitely target Mono, or is it merely possible to DIY? ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
Does Embarcadero offer 2 different way of cross-platform development. Delphi Prism (XDelphi?) with its Mono .Net based development and Delphi 2011 with new CLX? thanks, dmitry ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
In our previous episode, Michael Van Canneyt said: > Well, It is the least work for them. > Except that they'll have a HUGE amount of bugs to fix, if you look at the > FreeCLX bugtracker on sourceforge :-) FreeCLX was afaik based on K1, and K2..K3 followed, and maybe some post K3 development. I don't think FreeCLX is a good measure for the state of CLX. > In each case, the decision for remote debugging is IMHO fatal. > I would never want to work like that; it simply is not practical. I don't think an all out approach (Kylix like) for multiple platforms etc makes sense. I think this approach suits the expected target crowd (Delphi users that occasionally want to make a crossplatform binary) better. People mostly debug the windows app, and only the crossplatform bits remotely.r ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
On 6 April 2010 12:02, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > Well, It is the least work for them. > Except that they'll have a HUGE amount of bugs to fix, if you look at the > FreeCLX bugtracker on sourceforge :-) Definately! I just told somebody else on another mailing list that wanted to use the current FreeCLX the same thing - it's riddled with bugs. > In each case, the decision for remote debugging is IMHO fatal. I would never > want to work like that; it simply is not practical. +1 They will probably only attract a few server side developers (non-gui services or daemon and web apps), but I will never be able to work on full desktop GUI apps like that either. This will probably cause the cross-compiler uptake to be very slow - so I can just imagine the cross-compiler support will be canned again in a few years. :-/ Oh well, that's good news for FPC, fpGUI, Lazarus, MSEgui etc. :-) -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
Well, It is the least work for them. Except that they'll have a HUGE amount of bugs to fix, if you look at the FreeCLX bugtracker on sourceforge :-) In each case, the decision for remote debugging is IMHO fatal. I would never want to work like that; it simply is not practical. Michael. On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: It seems Embarcadero is staying with Qt and CLX. According to the following web page: http://www.blaisepascal.eu/index.php?actie=./lazarus_dutch_event --- About Delphi 2011: According to Michael Rozlog [Delphi product manager] in his Delphi Podcast interview: Fulcrum (Codename for Delphi 2011) is currently in private beta phase, and it will be available for public beta testing at the end of March or April. The new cross-platform framework will be a sequel to CLX (based on QT framework) which was available back in Delphi 6, and Delphi 7. The main differences are: 1 - There will only one Windows IDE available. For Linux and Mac, you will have to use either another computer connected to your development machine, or virtualization. According to Miachael Rozlog, the Delphi debugger will automatically switch to Remote Debugger, and the executable will be run on the target machine, and you can debug it just like your Windows based projects, only the forms will be shown in the target machine (or your virtualization software window), not your development machine desktop. 2 - Unlike Borland era, in Embarcadero the Linux-version (name unknown yet) part will have a dedicated development team. 3. There is no guarantee that 64-bit support will be available in this release. In this release we will see the new compiler which should provide a plug-able architecture for supporting more platforms in future, better optimized code, more support for new language features, an upgraded compatibility between Delphi and C++ Builder code, and a unified DCU structure. --- -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] CLX is returning to Delphi 2011
It seems Embarcadero is staying with Qt and CLX. According to the following web page: http://www.blaisepascal.eu/index.php?actie=./lazarus_dutch_event --- About Delphi 2011: According to Michael Rozlog [Delphi product manager] in his Delphi Podcast interview: Fulcrum (Codename for Delphi 2011) is currently in private beta phase, and it will be available for public beta testing at the end of March or April. The new cross-platform framework will be a sequel to CLX (based on QT framework) which was available back in Delphi 6, and Delphi 7. The main differences are: 1 - There will only one Windows IDE available. For Linux and Mac, you will have to use either another computer connected to your development machine, or virtualization. According to Miachael Rozlog, the Delphi debugger will automatically switch to Remote Debugger, and the executable will be run on the target machine, and you can debug it just like your Windows based projects, only the forms will be shown in the target machine (or your virtualization software window), not your development machine desktop. 2 - Unlike Borland era, in Embarcadero the Linux-version (name unknown yet) part will have a dedicated development team. 3. There is no guarantee that 64-bit support will be available in this release. In this release we will see the new compiler which should provide a plug-able architecture for supporting more platforms in future, better optimized code, more support for new language features, an upgraded compatibility between Delphi and C++ Builder code, and a unified DCU structure. --- -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
