Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On 2017-03-04 18:59, Hans-Peter Suter wrote: > Go with modern times! It's the 21st century now ;-) I am, that's why I am starting to use Java more and more. ;-) A very nice language, multiple choices in IDE's, fantastic debugger, fantastic contributions and ecosystem. When I think Records, I think of trying to read a binary file off disk in a complex layout. Records were (and still are) used to read such complex binary files. Methods in records have no place there. Now if I work with objects, I use Classes or Objects - both were designed for that purpose. > (I agree with what you wrote about 'polluting pascal code'. But what can > one do? Don't be a lemming! We can all see in what trouble Delphi has been for the last 15+ years. They are grasping at straws trying to stay above water. They f*cked up so many things during that time and became a very buggy platform to develop in. Free Pascal and Lazarus has a large following already, and is well established and a very solid compiler. Even EMBT proved that by using FPC is one of the Delphi releases (XE2 I think). Free Pascal doesn't need to follow Delphi over the cliff. My personal experience has proven that FPC is just as good... no wait, better that Delphi (multiple CPU support, multiple OS support, mobile support, embedded support etc). So I simply use FPC for everything! I don't need cross-compiler compatibility. > e.g. generics (and that they work well). I'm warming up to Generics (in Object Pascal) - but that is again more so because I'm also using Java, and in Java, generics is very often used. Regards, Graeme -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
2017-02-28 21:50 GMT+01:00 Graeme Geldenhuys : > Records - well, I use them like they were defined > in Delphi 7 and earlier. I really don't see the need for Records with > Methods (ie: TP Objects) and such. > Go with modern times! It's the 21st century now ;-) (For inspiration have e.g. a look at Julia [1] and how they develop incl. syntax changes. - Many discussions/decisions are being done using github issues, here e.g. a quite fundamental keyword change [2, 3]. As you see in this issue, it is often not easy to find *the* good solution, but it's great, how opinions have a place to flow in and can be considered/integrated by the core or other talented devs. - There are branches: people can help but are also told to wait if the timing is not good [4]. - There is a manual, stdlib, devdoc [5] which gets you started quickly and one can easily contribute small things like typos. - A one-stop discourse based forum [6] which is a joy to use and much easier than e.g. the multitude of fpc-maillist, lazarus-forum, newpascal-/mse--lists. - There's a one-stop binary download location [7] and/or install master from source, just a ~ 'git clone, make install' away (llvm is not as fast as fpc though;). - In general uniform syntax (even with `end` like in pascal:) which doesn't make you guess which style/convention to choose. - Organisations which integrate people interested in a specific subject. e.g. [8]. - Package management is currently a bit 'suboptimal' but a new one is being developed, here the propositions [9] where interested people can give input in the design phase, and later while implementing. --- Of course one cannot and should not compare !!! Julia doesn't have a 25+ year long legacy with many (partly a bit obscure) platforms to conserve and maintain. (It 'stole' the compiler, à la MSElang;-) It has developers which work since ~7 years ~professionally and there is quite some funding and many many contributors. But as a maybe longterm inspiration, why not? Maybe some parts are worth stealing? And, with tool-support, maybe possible to steal?) (Ähem, I digressed a bit from the Delphi 7 record topic... I am sorry (more so, considering I forked from you)) (I agree with what you wrote about 'polluting pascal code'. But what can one do? For me, atm, it is super-important that fpc is very compatible with delphi, e.g. generics (and that they work well). Thus, very grateful to people who contribute such things). [1]: http://julialang.org, [2]: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/19157, [3]: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/pull/20418, [4]: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/pull/20885, [5]: https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/tree/master/doc/src, [6]: http://discourse.julialang.org/ (discourse has mailling list integration nowadays...), [7]: http://julialang.org/downloads/, [8]: https://github.com/JuliaGPU, [9]: https://github.com/JuliaLang/Juleps/blob/master/Pkg3.md ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
Hi, with a function call: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=30333 I had benchmark runs where it spend more time in the initializing function than doing any calculations Best, Benito On 03/04/2017 06:41 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Sat, 4 Mar 2017, nore...@z505.com wrote: On 2017-02-28 14:48, Jonas Maebe wrote: On 28/02/17 21:40, nore...@z505.com wrote: What happens with a stack allocated record? (no new() required, nor dispose() so is the record ever initialized/finalized?) Yes, just like records that contain e.g. an ansistring field. Jonas do records which contain ansistring fields have some special stack initialization system (sorry, I should really read the source code in this case - still interested in theory of how this works) Yes. They are initialized. Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On Sat, 4 Mar 2017, nore...@z505.com wrote: On 2017-02-28 14:48, Jonas Maebe wrote: On 28/02/17 21:40, nore...@z505.com wrote: What happens with a stack allocated record? (no new() required, nor dispose() so is the record ever initialized/finalized?) Yes, just like records that contain e.g. an ansistring field. Jonas do records which contain ansistring fields have some special stack initialization system (sorry, I should really read the source code in this case - still interested in theory of how this works) Yes. They are initialized. Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On 2017-02-28 14:48, Jonas Maebe wrote: On 28/02/17 21:40, nore...@z505.com wrote: What happens with a stack allocated record? (no new() required, nor dispose() so is the record ever initialized/finalized?) Yes, just like records that contain e.g. an ansistring field. Jonas do records which contain ansistring fields have some special stack initialization system (sorry, I should really read the source code in this case - still interested in theory of how this works) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On 2017-02-28 14:50, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2017-02-28 20:40, nore...@z505.com wrote: Sorry, I've been out of touch with what's happening with Records lately in modern pascal/delphi/etc. Don't worry, I'm with you on that one. All I know is that Borland/CodeGear/EMBT broken TP Objects somewhere in Delphi. Then they decided they want that functionality back, so instead of fixing TP Objects, the decided to butcher Records to act just like TP Objects (well, pretty much)! Go figure. I mostly code with classes, but do still us TP Objects mixed in with my code for simpler data structures where I don't really want to instantiate objects. Records - well, I use them like they were defined in Delphi 7 and earlier. I really don't see the need for Records with Methods (ie: TP Objects) and such. Regards, Graeme There are many cases where I do not want to free and create an object and just use something on the stack instead. TP objects kind of offered a solution to this, but not really, since if you used an old TP object which was designed to be on the heap, but you used in on the stack instead - problems would occur... I'm fond of what Oberon and Golang are doing to try and solve the issue, but, that's garbage collected rather than stack. And in those languages you have to send the self parameter in as your own (there is no hidden self, you create your own self shortform) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On 2017-02-28 20:40, nore...@z505.com wrote: > Sorry, I've been out of touch with what's happening with Records lately > in modern pascal/delphi/etc. Don't worry, I'm with you on that one. All I know is that Borland/CodeGear/EMBT broken TP Objects somewhere in Delphi. Then they decided they want that functionality back, so instead of fixing TP Objects, the decided to butcher Records to act just like TP Objects (well, pretty much)! Go figure. I mostly code with classes, but do still us TP Objects mixed in with my code for simpler data structures where I don't really want to instantiate objects. Records - well, I use them like they were defined in Delphi 7 and earlier. I really don't see the need for Records with Methods (ie: TP Objects) and such. Regards, Graeme -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On 28/02/17 21:40, nore...@z505.com wrote: What happens with a stack allocated record? (no new() required, nor dispose() so is the record ever initialized/finalized?) Yes, just like records that contain e.g. an ansistring field. Jonas ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On 2017-02-28 05:20, Maciej Izak wrote: It works correctly in all possible ways with RTL: * New (Initialize) * Dispose (Finalize) What happens with a stack allocated record? (no new() required, nor dispose() so is the record ever initialized/finalized?) Or stack records are forbidden? One reason I love records is because you can create a stack record without any worry of freeing and creating it on heap, a huge advantage over OOP programming in delphi/fpc where everything is heap object (except old turbo pascal objects). Sorry, I've been out of touch with what's happening with Records lately in modern pascal/delphi/etc. (If it sounds like a silly newbie question, forgive me, I am not up on the latest and greatest!) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
2017-02-28 13:19 GMT+01:00 Michael Van Canneyt : > You do now. I took care of that :) Thanks ^^ now I can officially fix bugs related to new feature. Mhm. Great... ;) -- Best regards, Maciej Izak ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2017, Maciej Izak wrote: 2017-02-28 12:28 GMT+01:00 denisgolovan : Thanks a lot. I guess http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=30687 should be closed now :) I don't have such powers ;) You do now. I took care of that :) But I set it to fixed for you. Seeing you were the reporter, you can set it to closed :) By the way, thanks for the contribution. Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017, Maciej Izak wrote: 2017-02-28 12:28 GMT+01:00 denisgolovan : Thanks a lot. I guess http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=30687 should be closed now :) I don't have such powers ;) You do now. I took care of that :) But I set it to fixed for you. Seeing you were the reporter, you can set it to closed :) Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
2017-02-28 12:28 GMT+01:00 denisgolovan : > Thanks a lot. > I guess http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=30687 should be closed now > :) > I don't have such powers ;) -- Best regards, Maciej Izak ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Feature announcement: Management Operators
Thanks a lot.I guess http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=30687 should be closed now :) -- Regards,Denis Golovan ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
