Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On 26 February 2012 14:38, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > Take a school. To be able to test for example data entry of a pupil who > comes to inscribe, I need to create and set up the whole eco-system for my > pupil: > > ...snip... > linked together somehow. For the same reason I never understood the use of > 'test data generators' functionalities in database modeling tools. The > generated data is utterly useless... I haven't viewed the video yet, I will tomorrow at work. From everybody's comments, it sounds very interesting. Regarding your comment on data generators. I can say that I have (in our company product) a very similar data structure as you described above. I have created a "data generator" for our product and it does work with our complex data model. It generates realistic data, not just random text garbage (that is indeed useless - maybe this is what you were referring too). We used the data generator for performance testing. Populating for example our Learner table with 500 000 learners (and there related data - like addresses, subjects, schools etc), and then see where any bottlenecks occur in our UI or SQL. I think tiOPF's demo 21 uses a similar data generator to what I created in our Master Maths product. Our company product just uses a much greater scale of generated data. So bottom line - a realistic data generator can be very useful. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://fpgui.sourceforge.net ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On 26 Feb 2012, at 13:24, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: > Roland Schäfer schrieb: >> I am just very busy and really >> just beg you to respect my decision to be on the "fpc-pascal" list and >> not "visions-other". >> > Then why don't you simply ignore (delete) the posts with the subject "Amazing > new development tools"? The whole reason we have four different lists is to minimise cases where people have to do that. This topic indeed belongs on the fpc-other list, not on fpc-pascal (since it's not about programming in or getting help with FPC). Jonas FPC mailing lists admin___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012, ik wrote: On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 13:25, zeljko wrote: On Sunday 26 of February 2012 11:43:38 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: I don't see him doing this in huge corporate administrative business programs where hundreds of database tables are involved. and that tables can contain billion of rows ... so visualisation won't be so snappy :) It depends on your tests. That visualization is for test driven development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development). In Ruby I use Cucumber for such things, and then you can provide also a table with possible values to see how it will react. That is childs play; good for some simple website stuff. We're talking corporate RDBMS here. Take a school. To be able to test for example data entry of a pupil who comes to inscribe, I need to create and set up the whole eco-system for my pupil: - Table with schools - Table with countries - Table with cities - Table with addresses - Table with nationalities - Tables with values for all kinds of parameters. - Table with groups in my school. - Table with teaching subjects. - Table with teachers teaching the subject. All these tables have constraints, time dependencies, whatnot. I cannot even start testing anything pupil-related without having properly set up all this first :/ To be able to visualize or test all that, you need detailed knowledge of the system; a simple "test table with possible values" is unusable; all tables are linked together somehow. For the same reason I never understood the use of 'test data generators' functionalities in database modeling tools. The generated data is utterly useless... Michael. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
Roland Schäfer schrieb: I am just very busy and really just beg you to respect my decision to be on the "fpc-pascal" list and not "visions-other". Then why don't you simply ignore (delete) the posts with the subject "Amazing new development tools"? That's what I am doing: Just open posts which look interesting to me from the subject line. I doubt that anybody else (a moderator) can do this selection for me by sorting such posts into categories. In the end it's the same as a spam filter: It does not work. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
That was the seventh message on a subject which is not related to FPC in any recognizable way. Although not a very frequent poster, I still need to be on this list because I chose FPC for some of my professional work, and I usually learn a lot from following some of the discussions on the list. Why does this type of discussion not go on fpc-other? I know I'm not a moderator or anything. I am just very busy and really just beg you to respect my decision to be on the "fpc-pascal" list and not "visions-other". Thanks, R. On 2/26/2012 12:35 PM, ik wrote: > On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 13:25, zeljko wrote: >> and that tables can contain billion of rows ... so visualisation won't be so >> snappy :) > > It depends on your tests. That visualization is for test driven > development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development). > > In Ruby I use Cucumber for such things, and then you can provide also > a table with possible values to see how it will react. > ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 13:25, zeljko wrote: > On Sunday 26 of February 2012 11:43:38 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > >> I don't see him doing this in huge corporate administrative business > >> programs where hundreds of database tables are involved. > > > and that tables can contain billion of rows ... so visualisation won't be so > snappy :) It depends on your tests. That visualization is for test driven development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development). In Ruby I use Cucumber for such things, and then you can provide also a table with possible values to see how it will react. > > > zeljko > > > ___ > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On Sunday 26 of February 2012 11:43:38 Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > I don't see him doing this in huge corporate administrative business > programs where hundreds of database tables are involved. and that tables can contain billion of rows ... so visualisation won't be so snappy :) zeljko ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:43:38 +0100 (CET) Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > > On Sun, 26 Feb 2012, Vinzent Höfler wrote: > > > On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:15:54 +0100, ik wrote: > > > >> I found the following amazing lecture that present a new idea of a > >> development tool, that I think will interest you all: > >> > >> http://vimeo.com/36579366 > > > > Impressive, indeed. And I am usually not that easily impressed. > > Impressed indeed. But IMHO limited to a certain kind of programming. > The binary search part could probably be done for any kind of programming, I > suppose. I doubt that "any kind of programming". He showed the simplest case: a function that only receives base types. But most functions work on complex parameters - classes. These need to be set up. Either by writing a test environment or by taking a snapshot with the debugger. Then you can run the function repeatedly. The next step is to "compile" the function on every change. Easy with an interpreter. How to compile only one function of a big program and insert/replace it? The next step is to run the function and read every value change. Easy in an interpreter. For a compiled program you have to single step with the debugger. > I don't see him doing this in huge corporate administrative business > programs where hundreds of database tables are involved. > They are hard to connect to or visualize :-) > > But visionary nonetheless. +1 Mattias ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012, Vinzent Höfler wrote: On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:15:54 +0100, ik wrote: I found the following amazing lecture that present a new idea of a development tool, that I think will interest you all: http://vimeo.com/36579366 Impressive, indeed. And I am usually not that easily impressed. Impressed indeed. But IMHO limited to a certain kind of programming. The binary search part could probably be done for any kind of programming, I suppose. I don't see him doing this in huge corporate administrative business programs where hundreds of database tables are involved. They are hard to connect to or visualize :-) But visionary nonetheless. Michael.___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
2012/2/26 Vinzent Höfler > On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:15:54 +0100, ik wrote: > > I found the following amazing lecture that present a new idea of a >> development tool, that I think will interest you all: >> >> http://vimeo.com/36579366 >> > > Impressive, indeed. And I am usually not that easily impressed. > Yes it is! Has this one guy made himself all the tools he demonstrated? He is quite a super-human then. :) Juha ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] OT: Amazing new development tools
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:15:54 +0100, ik wrote: I found the following amazing lecture that present a new idea of a development tool, that I think will interest you all: http://vimeo.com/36579366 Impressive, indeed. And I am usually not that easily impressed. Vinzent. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
