Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Fred Ridder]

> Generating the index isn't a problem. It's the resulting PDFthe linking 
> area doesn't 
> extend to the entire index entryonly the leader dots and page numbering.


It is normal behavior for the active area in generated indexes to include only 
the page numbers and the leading punctuation. The reason is that it is 
completely normal to have a list of multiple page numbers for any given index 
entry. Whenever you have multiple page references it makes no sense to include 
the text of the index entry as part of the hotspot for the first page 
reference, and it makes no sense to have two different behaviors depending on 
single or multiple references, so the standard behavior is the one that's right 
for multipel references. This is one of the fundamental differences between a 
generated list (one entry per occurrence) and a generated index (multiple 
references per entry).

If you are generating a special kind of index where no entry ever has more than 
one page reference, it is possible to move the hypertext marker (or to create a 
duplicate copy) of each hypertext marker at the beginning of each index entry 
paragraph so that the active area includes the whole paragraph rather than just 
the page number. I believe someone has written a script to do this if you have 
FrameScript on your system. Or else you could generate it as a list rather than 
an index.

-Fred Ridder

_
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi,

When you create an index, you will get two types of entries:
Some with a single reference and some with multiple references.

Apple94
Pear.95, 97

When there is only a single reference the link area in the resulting
PDF file encompasses the whole paragraph - provided that there is
really no change in the character formatting (page number, separator,
text). The link area does not start at the position of the marker
but extends in both directions of the marker until there is a change
in the character formatting or the paragraph ends. A change in character
formatting could also be a character format with everything set to As Is.
Test it out, e.g.:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/9.0/Using/framemaker_9_help.pdf
Or the MML reference in the FrameMaker installation folder (at least for FM 8)

When you have more than one reference, then the first link area
encompasses the text, separator and first page number. The next link
areas encompass only the page number.

Therefore, when your link area encompasses only the page number and not
even the dots, then there is definitely a change in the character 
formatting. Check how the page numbers and the separator (tab with dots) 
are formatted.

Best regards

Winfried

> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:16 AM
> To: ecidade at zoominternet.net; framers at lists.frameusers.com; 
> dspreadb at yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)
> 
> 
> > Generating the index isn't a problem. It's the resulting 
> PDFthe linking area doesn't 
> > extend to the entire index entryonly the leader dots 
> and page numbering.
> 
> 
> It is normal behavior for the active area in generated 
> indexes to include only the page numbers and the leading 
> punctuation. The reason is that it is completely normal to 
> have a list of multiple page numbers for any given index 
> entry. Whenever you have multiple page references it makes no 
> sense to include the text of the index entry as part of the 
> hotspot for the first page reference, and it makes no sense 
> to have two different behaviors depending on single or 
> multiple references, so the standard behavior is the one 
> that's right for multipel references. This is one of the 
> fundamental differences between a generated list (one entry 
> per occurrence) and a generated index (multiple references per entry).
> 
> If you are generating a special kind of index where no entry 
> ever has more than one page reference, it is possible to move 
> the hypertext marker (or to create a duplicate copy) of each 
> hypertext marker at the beginning of each index entry 
> paragraph so that the active area includes the whole 
> paragraph rather than just the page number. I believe someone 
> has written a script to do this if you have FrameScript on 
> your system. Or else you could generate it as a list rather 
> than an index.
> 
> -Fred Ridder

Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Milton, Cynthia]

Classification: NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED

W*** is a four-letter thingy where I work. Just uttering it within my
hearing reduces me to jelly. I prefer a quiet life, with no dramas.

Seriously, as far as I'm concerned, ease of use, consistency (and
enforcement thereof), predictability, flexibility, portability,
dependability . . .

Depends entirely on what you want to do. YMMV.

Cynthia Milton - 0773 889 5991
Technical Documentation (Cyclamen - Rollestone) -Original
Message-
--

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:44:29 -0500
From: "Kelly McDaniel" 
To: 
Subject: Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Does anyone have a current comparison they can share?...thanks, Kelly.


Classification: NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED

This e-mail and any attachments may contain sensitive and/or
privileged material. It is for the intended addressee(s) only. If you
are not a named addressee, you must not use, retain or disclose
such information.

Serco cannot guarantee that the email or any attachments are free
from viruses.

The views expressed in this email are those of the originator and do
not necessarily represent the views of Serco.

Nothing in this email shall bind Serco in any contract or obligation.

Please note that all email messages sent to Serco are subject to
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2048608.

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Bartley Way, Hook, Hampshire, RG27 9UY.

Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Shmuel Wolfson]

I don't think too much has changed between the two in the last few 
versions, except if you are interested in single sourcing. (Frame has 
better DITA support than earlier versions.)

I find Frame's two greatest advantages to be automatic error checking 
when updating books and single sourcing. As far as whether Frame is 
worth the investment, in my opinion it really is largely depending on 
whether you are planning on using any of the single sourcing features: 
conditional text, shared chapters and shared sections (text insets).

After using Frame for a few years, I've come to really like it. I can't 
imagine not using some level of single sourcing, and the error checking 
when updating books does reduce some of the stress when finalizing a book.

Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133

Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Combs, Richard]

Reng, Dr. Winfried wrote:

> When there is only a single reference the link area in the resulting
> PDF file encompasses the whole paragraph - provided that there is
> really no change in the character formatting (page number, separator,
> text). The link area does not start at the position of the marker
> but extends in both directions of the marker until there is a change
> in the character formatting or the paragraph ends. A change in character
> formatting could also be a character format with everything set to As Is.
> Test it out, e.g.:
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/9.0/Using/framemaker_9_help.pdf
> Or the MML reference in the FrameMaker installation folder (at least for FM
> 8)

I've created many indexes in FM 5.1 through 7.2, and recently began working 
with 9.0. I've never had my own indexes exhibit this behavior, either in FM or 
in PDF. The hotspots have always been limited to the page numbers, whether an 
entry had one or multiple page numbers. 

I'm looking right now at the FM 7 MIF_Reference.pdf and MML_Reference.pdf. The 
former's index exhibits the behavior I'm familiar with: only the page numbers 
are hyperlinks. The latter exhibits the behavior you describe: the entire line 
is a hyperlink. 

The index behavior I'm familiar with is the result of generating a regular 
index -- which is what I always do. I suspect that the behavior you're 
describing is the result of generating something else -- probably an 
alphabetical list of markers (ALM) or index of markers (IOM). 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Mike Wickham]

> Does anyone have a current comparison they can share?...thanks, Kelly.

A Google search of "Word vs FrameMaker" pops up a whole bunch of 
comparisons.

Mike Wickham

Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Richard,

I create only regular indices, and I get the behaviour I described
and which I also found in official PDF files. You can get link
areas across the whole line with regular indices. You do not
need ALM or IOM.

Did you check the paragraph format of your separators on the
reference page?

Best regards

Winfried

> -Original Message-
> From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.combs at Polycom.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:15 PM
> To: Reng, Dr. Winfried; framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)
> 
> Reng, Dr. Winfried wrote:
>  
> > When there is only a single reference the link area in the resulting
> > PDF file encompasses the whole paragraph - provided that there is
> > really no change in the character formatting (page number, 
> separator,
> > text). The link area does not start at the position of the marker
> > but extends in both directions of the marker until there is a change
> > in the character formatting or the paragraph ends. A change 
> in character
> > formatting could also be a character format with everything 
> set to As Is.
> > Test it out, e.g.:
> > 
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/9.0/Using/framemaker_9_help.pdf
> > Or the MML reference in the FrameMaker installation folder 
> (at least for FM
> > 8)
> 
> I've created many indexes in FM 5.1 through 7.2, and recently 
> began working with 9.0. I've never had my own indexes exhibit 
> this behavior, either in FM or in PDF. The hotspots have 
> always been limited to the page numbers, whether an entry had 
> one or multiple page numbers. 
> 
> I'm looking right now at the FM 7 MIF_Reference.pdf and 
> MML_Reference.pdf. The former's index exhibits the behavior 
> I'm familiar with: only the page numbers are hyperlinks. The 
> latter exhibits the behavior you describe: the entire line is 
> a hyperlink. 
> 
> The index behavior I'm familiar with is the result of 
> generating a regular index -- which is what I always do. I 
> suspect that the behavior you're describing is the result of 
> generating something else -- probably an alphabetical list of 
> markers (ALM) or index of markers (IOM). 
> 
> 
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Dr Rick Smith]

Regarding Frame vs Word, let me explain how I use it: I'm a consultant  
whose vice is book writing. I've been writing books with unstructured  
Frame since version 4. I'm also obliged to use MS Word when writing  
reports for clients.

Rather than list strong points of each, let me list weak points of each:



Weak points of Framemaker

* Hardly anyone uses Frame. There's rarely any point in emailing Frame  
documents to people. Fortunately, both of my publishers have a  
production organization that knows/understands/loves it.

* The vendor doesn't take the product seriously. This is shown through  
lackluster advertising, upgrades, and support. It reminds me of  
Multics under Honeywell, for the oldsters out there.  I'm astonished  
that the program is in as good a shape as it is. I'm always expecting  
another "We're dropping Frame" announcement.

* Since it's not taken seriously, there are rough edges in the user  
interface. Today, even the simplest text editor software understands  
"click and drag." Not Framemaker. When the scroll wheel became a  
common GUI feature a decade ago, Frame required an extra release or  
two before the scroll wheel worked reliably.

* The analytical and statistical tools are weak or nonexistent.  
There's a hokey interface that performs "word count," and that's about  
it. There are no analytics of average sentence complexity or grade  
level. While on one level I'm not confident that an algorithmic  
analysis will provide authoritative answers, I'd like to see how my  
different chapters compare.

* Important features use complicated interfaces that are hard to  
master through pure trial and error. I was initiated into the arcane  
secrets of section numbering by the Wizard Sheldon, who could make  
Framemaker sing soprano. You really need -training- to do advanced  
things like TOCs and indices, either in person or from a clear and  
complete written explanation. I'm only tackling indices this time  
because there's a readable chapter on it in O'Keefe et al's  
"Unstructured Framemaker 8" (and because the publisher isn't doing the  
index himself).

* There's no outlining feature with expand/collapse and a distinction  
between headings and text, like you have in MS Word. While I don't  
find Word's outline feature very effective, it's better than almost  
all 3rd party outliners.



Weak points of MS Word - things that have failed me over the past decade

* If you want a consistent document, you need to put it all in one  
file. Maybe they've fixed that by now, but I've mercifully not had to  
deal with a giant Word document recently.

* If the document gets too big (100+ pages), random things start  
failing. In a previous version, I remember seeing bullet symbols  
randomly disappear from bullet lists when the document reached 100  
pages.

* I can't make cross references work as cleanly and reliably as they  
work in Frame.

* I can't control a figure's location as reliably as I can in Frame.

* I can't make chapter or section or figure or table numbering work as  
cleanly and reliably as it works in Frame.

* I can't change an individual paragraph's format as cleanly as I do  
in Frame. When I try to apply a Word style or a format or whatever to  
a paragraph, I get a bunch of questions about whether I'm trying to  
redefine the style or globally apply this paragraph's format to other  
things, or something else irrelevant.

* I can't reliably make a global change to a paragraph format and  
propagate it to all thusly-formatted paragraphs and do it as easily  
and reliably as I do in Frame.


Over the years I've learned how to fix some of my gripes about Word,  
but the fixes haven't always survived past the next product upgrade.


Rick Smith
Cryptosmith LLC

Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Combs, Richard]

Reng, Dr. Winfried wrote:

> I create only regular indices, and I get the behaviour I described
> and which I also found in official PDF files. You can get link
> areas across the whole line with regular indices. You do not
> need ALM or IOM.
> 
> Did you check the paragraph format of your separators on the
> reference page?

Hmm, you're right. Randomly checking a few files, I see that in each, the 
SeparatorsIX pgf uses a different font than the LevelIX and IndexIX pgfs (in 
fact, in each case it's the same as GroupTitlesIX). 

I have no recollection of ever consciously making that so, but I've 
consistently seen the behavior that this apparently introduces for many years, 
docs, and FM versions. And as I noted, that's the behavior of at least some of 
Adobe's docs (and of PDFs from other sources that I've encountered). 

Mind you, I prefer that behavior, so I'm glad that someone long ago made 
SeparatorsIX different, and I have no intention of changing it. It seems odd to 
me to have the text of an index entry hyperlinked to the first of several pages 
that the entry references. It seems perfectly natural, OTOH, to click the page 
number -- even if there is only one.  

But getting back to Eduardo's question, I suspect you've provided the answer 
for him: check the SeparatorsIX definition. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[st...@siliconprairiesoftware.com]

Regarding a couple of Frame's shortcomings

Readability calculations


I also wanted to do some better structural and readability analysis for
documents, but couldn't. I made Readability Tools to do that analysis.
Features of Readability Tools include determining document statistics,
calculating standard readability formulas, generating readability reports,
and producing lists and counts of all words used in a document or book.
The Flesch Reading Ease, Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level, ARI (Automated
Readability Index), SMOG, and Gunning Fog Index readability tests are
available.

Creating outlines
-

When I'm writing technical docs, I like to create a traditional outline to
get the content organized. I really liked the outlining in Word 5.1 on the
Macintosh. (How old am I?!?!)I am not as happy with the outlining in the
more recent versions of Word. I did like the outlining template that uses
the auto-numbering in Frame, but found that it was difficult to push the
blocks of information around as I was working in the outline. So, I
created the Outline Tools plug-in for Frame that makes it easier to push
blocks of content around in an outline document.

You can read more about these tools at:

http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com

Steve

Acrobat 9 Frustrations...

[Chris Despopoulos]

Yet again.

I know this has been discussed, but I can't seem to find it in my searches.

I have FrameMaker 8 and Acrobat 9 Pro.  I'm trying to move over to a Windows 7 
machine.  I have replicated my original setup that worked on my XP machine.  
But now when I try to save a book as PDF, I get an OffendingCommand error and 
no PDF is generated.  I can generate PDF for any single file in the book.  But 
I can't generate PDF for more than one file in the book.

I know there was some MS HotFix out there for XP, WinServer, and Vista.  I 
guess there was some memory problem where the PS printer drivers ran out of 
memory, unloaded fonts, and did other bad things.  Is this the same problem, 
only now on Win 7?  Or is it just some compatibility problem with FrameMaker 8 
and Acrobat 9?  

If anybody has any notion of what's happening, I'd be most thrilled.  I've just 
been too busy to catalog all these issues as they go by.

Thanks much...   cud

Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Mike Wickham]

>  There are no analytics of average sentence complexity or grade  level.

You might want to check out the very inexpensive Readability Tools plugin 
from .

> There's no outlining feature with expand/collapse

The inexpensive Outline Tools plugin is also available from 
.

Mike Wickham

Is it possible to Save As PDF from FrameMaker 9 using Acrobat 7 on Windows7?

[Ursula McCloy]

Hi,

We have recently upgraded to Windows7, 64-bit, and were also able to
upgrade to FrameMaker9.  We have not yet committed to upgrading our
Acrobat 7 licenses (bundled with CS2; to upgrade that is ~$700 - a tad
steep for our tastes).

While we are pleased with our FM9 upgrade in general, we are unable to
SaveAsPDF, since the Acrobat PDF print driver does not appear to be
installed.  Of course, we could print to file using another print
driver, but that is not generally considered kosher, and can produce a
whole slew of other problems (fonts, colours, etc.) that I do not want
to wrangle with.
* Has anyone been able to get the Acrobat7 PDF print driver to install
on a Windows7 machine?
* If so, is there a particular install sequence we need to follow? (I am
pretty sure IT  remembered to install Acrobat after FrameMaker, but I
can't tell for sure)
* Are there any other options for generating reliable PDFs from
FrameMaker9 on Windows7, other than upgrading to Acrobat9?
* And (though this question is off topic) has anyone experienced any
show stoppers with using CS2 Photoshop, Illustrator, or InDesign on
Windows7?  


Thanks for any insights :).

Ursula McCloy
Information Developer
The PEER Group Inc.

Acrobat 9 Frustrations...

[Steve Johnson]

I have PDFd books using Frame 8 and Acrobat 9 on Windows 7.

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Chris Despopoulos
 wrote:
> Yet again.
>
> I know this has been discussed, but I can't seem to find it in my searches.
>
> I have FrameMaker 8 and Acrobat 9 Pro. ?I'm trying to move over to a Windows 
> 7 machine. ?I have replicated my original setup that worked on my XP machine. 
> ?But now when I try to save a book as PDF, I get an OffendingCommand error 
> and no PDF is generated. ?I can generate PDF for any single file in the book. 
> ?But I can't generate PDF for more than one file in the book.
>
> I know there was some MS HotFix out there for XP, WinServer, and Vista. ?I 
> guess there was some memory problem where the PS printer drivers ran out of 
> memory, unloaded fonts, and did other bad things. ?Is this the same problem, 
> only now on Win 7? ?Or is it just some compatibility problem with FrameMaker 
> 8 and Acrobat 9?
>
> If anybody has any notion of what's happening, I'd be most thrilled. ?I've 
> just been too busy to catalog all these issues as they go by.
>
> Thanks much... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cud
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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>
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>



-- 

Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com

Setting PDF Custom Properties from Structured FrameMaker

[Graham, Jasmine S]

Fellow Framers,



My setup is TCS1 on Windows XP (Frame 8.0, structured, with Adobe 9.0 Pro 
Extended). I need to set up custom properties in the PDF (Document Properties > 
Custom Tab). I want to create these properties as attributes in the Frame book 
file so that I can automatically write them to the PDF.



I know how to set up Frame's File Info dialog, which writes to the PDF Document 
Properties > Description tab, but I must also have additional metadata on the 
Document Properties > Custom Tab. 



Anyone out there doing something like this today? Ideas on how I can get this 
to work? All ideas and input are appreciated. Thanks in advance!



Jasmine Graham

Technical Writer, Research and Development 

Wireline Services

Weatherford ? 481 Winscott Road ? Fort Worth ? TX ? 76126 

Main: +1.817.249.7200 ? Direct: +1.817.249.7032 ? Fax: +1.817.249.7885 ? 
Mobile: +1.817.235.3620 

jasmine.graham at weatherford.com ? www.weatherford.com



===
CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION

The information contained in this message is privileged, confidential, and 
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This message is intended for the individual or entity addressed herein. 
If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or 
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Also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it 
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The sender totally disclaims, and will not accept, any responsibility or 
liability for the unauthorized use, 
or the consequences of any unauthorized use, of this communication or message.

RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi,

When you create an index, you will get two types of entries:
Some with a single reference and some with multiple references.

Apple94
Pear.95, 97

When there is only a single reference the link area in the resulting
PDF file encompasses the whole paragraph - provided that there is
really no change in the character formatting (page number, separator,
text). The link area does not start at the position of the marker
but extends in both directions of the marker until there is a change
in the character formatting or the paragraph ends. A change in character
formatting could also be a character format with everything set to As Is.
Test it out, e.g.:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/9.0/Using/framemaker_9_help.pdf
Or the MML reference in the FrameMaker installation folder (at least for FM 8)

When you have more than one reference, then the first link area
encompasses the text, separator and first page number. The next link
areas encompass only the page number.

Therefore, when your link area encompasses only the page number and not
even the dots, then there is definitely a change in the character 
formatting. Check how the page numbers and the separator (tab with dots) 
are formatted.

Best regards

Winfried

> -Original Message-
> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:16 AM
> To: ecid...@zoominternet.net; framers@lists.frameusers.com; 
> dspre...@yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)
> 
> 
> > Generating the index isn't a problem. It's the resulting 
> PDFthe linking area doesn't 
> > extend to the entire index entryonly the leader dots 
> and page numbering.
> 
> 
> It is normal behavior for the active area in generated 
> indexes to include only the page numbers and the leading 
> punctuation. The reason is that it is completely normal to 
> have a list of multiple page numbers for any given index 
> entry. Whenever you have multiple page references it makes no 
> sense to include the text of the index entry as part of the 
> hotspot for the first page reference, and it makes no sense 
> to have two different behaviors depending on single or 
> multiple references, so the standard behavior is the one 
> that's right for multipel references. This is one of the 
> fundamental differences between a generated list (one entry 
> per occurrence) and a generated index (multiple references per entry).
> 
> If you are generating a special kind of index where no entry 
> ever has more than one page reference, it is possible to move 
> the hypertext marker (or to create a duplicate copy) of each 
> hypertext marker at the beginning of each index entry 
> paragraph so that the active area includes the whole 
> paragraph rather than just the page number. I believe someone 
> has written a script to do this if you have FrameScript on 
> your system. Or else you could generate it as a list rather 
> than an index.
> 
> -Fred Ridder
___


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Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Milton, Cynthia]

 
Classification: NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED

W*** is a four-letter thingy where I work. Just uttering it within my
hearing reduces me to jelly. I prefer a quiet life, with no dramas.

Seriously, as far as I'm concerned, ease of use, consistency (and
enforcement thereof), predictability, flexibility, portability,
dependability . . .

Depends entirely on what you want to do. YMMV.

Cynthia Milton - 0773 889 5991
Technical Documentation (Cyclamen - Rollestone) -Original
Message-
--

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:44:29 -0500
From: "Kelly McDaniel" 
To: 
Subject: Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Does anyone have a current comparison they can share?...thanks, Kelly.

 
Classification: NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED

This e-mail and any attachments may contain sensitive and/or
privileged material. It is for the intended addressee(s) only. If you
are not a named addressee, you must not use, retain or disclose
such information.

Serco cannot guarantee that the email or any attachments are free
from viruses.

The views expressed in this email are those of the originator and do
not necessarily represent the views of Serco.

Nothing in this email shall bind Serco in any contract or obligation.

Please note that all email messages sent to Serco are subject to
monitoring/interception for lawful business purposes.

Serco Group PLC. Registered in England and Wales. No:
2048608.

Registered Office: Serco House, 16 Bartley Wood Business Park,
Bartley Way, Hook, Hampshire, RG27 9UY.
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Re: Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Shmuel Wolfson]

I don't think too much has changed between the two in the last few 
versions, except if you are interested in single sourcing. (Frame has 
better DITA support than earlier versions.)


I find Frame's two greatest advantages to be automatic error checking 
when updating books and single sourcing. As far as whether Frame is 
worth the investment, in my opinion it really is largely depending on 
whether you are planning on using any of the single sourcing features: 
conditional text, shared chapters and shared sections (text insets).


After using Frame for a few years, I've come to really like it. I can't 
imagine not using some level of single sourcing, and the error checking 
when updating books does reduce some of the stress when finalizing a book.


Regards,
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
052-763-7133


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RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Combs, Richard]

Reng, Dr. Winfried wrote:
 
> When there is only a single reference the link area in the resulting
> PDF file encompasses the whole paragraph - provided that there is
> really no change in the character formatting (page number, separator,
> text). The link area does not start at the position of the marker
> but extends in both directions of the marker until there is a change
> in the character formatting or the paragraph ends. A change in character
> formatting could also be a character format with everything set to As Is.
> Test it out, e.g.:
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/9.0/Using/framemaker_9_help.pdf
> Or the MML reference in the FrameMaker installation folder (at least for FM
> 8)

I've created many indexes in FM 5.1 through 7.2, and recently began working 
with 9.0. I've never had my own indexes exhibit this behavior, either in FM or 
in PDF. The hotspots have always been limited to the page numbers, whether an 
entry had one or multiple page numbers. 

I'm looking right now at the FM 7 MIF_Reference.pdf and MML_Reference.pdf. The 
former's index exhibits the behavior I'm familiar with: only the page numbers 
are hyperlinks. The latter exhibits the behavior you describe: the entire line 
is a hyperlink. 

The index behavior I'm familiar with is the result of generating a regular 
index -- which is what I always do. I suspect that the behavior you're 
describing is the result of generating something else -- probably an 
alphabetical list of markers (ALM) or index of markers (IOM). 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
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Re: Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Mike Wickham]

Does anyone have a current comparison they can share?...thanks, Kelly.


A Google search of "Word vs FrameMaker" pops up a whole bunch of 
comparisons.


Mike Wickham


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RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Richard,

I create only regular indices, and I get the behaviour I described
and which I also found in official PDF files. You can get link
areas across the whole line with regular indices. You do not
need ALM or IOM.

Did you check the paragraph format of your separators on the
reference page?

Best regards

Winfried

> -Original Message-
> From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:15 PM
> To: Reng, Dr. Winfried; framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)
> 
> Reng, Dr. Winfried wrote:
>  
> > When there is only a single reference the link area in the resulting
> > PDF file encompasses the whole paragraph - provided that there is
> > really no change in the character formatting (page number, 
> separator,
> > text). The link area does not start at the position of the marker
> > but extends in both directions of the marker until there is a change
> > in the character formatting or the paragraph ends. A change 
> in character
> > formatting could also be a character format with everything 
> set to As Is.
> > Test it out, e.g.:
> > 
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/9.0/Using/framemaker_9_help.pdf
> > Or the MML reference in the FrameMaker installation folder 
> (at least for FM
> > 8)
> 
> I've created many indexes in FM 5.1 through 7.2, and recently 
> began working with 9.0. I've never had my own indexes exhibit 
> this behavior, either in FM or in PDF. The hotspots have 
> always been limited to the page numbers, whether an entry had 
> one or multiple page numbers. 
> 
> I'm looking right now at the FM 7 MIF_Reference.pdf and 
> MML_Reference.pdf. The former's index exhibits the behavior 
> I'm familiar with: only the page numbers are hyperlinks. The 
> latter exhibits the behavior you describe: the entire line is 
> a hyperlink. 
> 
> The index behavior I'm familiar with is the result of 
> generating a regular index -- which is what I always do. I 
> suspect that the behavior you're describing is the result of 
> generating something else -- probably an alphabetical list of 
> markers (ALM) or index of markers (IOM). 
> 
> 
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Dr Rick Smith]

Regarding Frame vs Word, let me explain how I use it: I'm a consultant  
whose vice is book writing. I've been writing books with unstructured  
Frame since version 4. I'm also obliged to use MS Word when writing  
reports for clients.


Rather than list strong points of each, let me list weak points of each:



Weak points of Framemaker

* Hardly anyone uses Frame. There's rarely any point in emailing Frame  
documents to people. Fortunately, both of my publishers have a  
production organization that knows/understands/loves it.


* The vendor doesn't take the product seriously. This is shown through  
lackluster advertising, upgrades, and support. It reminds me of  
Multics under Honeywell, for the oldsters out there.  I'm astonished  
that the program is in as good a shape as it is. I'm always expecting  
another "We're dropping Frame" announcement.


* Since it's not taken seriously, there are rough edges in the user  
interface. Today, even the simplest text editor software understands  
"click and drag." Not Framemaker. When the scroll wheel became a  
common GUI feature a decade ago, Frame required an extra release or  
two before the scroll wheel worked reliably.


* The analytical and statistical tools are weak or nonexistent.  
There's a hokey interface that performs "word count," and that's about  
it. There are no analytics of average sentence complexity or grade  
level. While on one level I'm not confident that an algorithmic  
analysis will provide authoritative answers, I'd like to see how my  
different chapters compare.


* Important features use complicated interfaces that are hard to  
master through pure trial and error. I was initiated into the arcane  
secrets of section numbering by the Wizard Sheldon, who could make  
Framemaker sing soprano. You really need -training- to do advanced  
things like TOCs and indices, either in person or from a clear and  
complete written explanation. I'm only tackling indices this time  
because there's a readable chapter on it in O'Keefe et al's  
"Unstructured Framemaker 8" (and because the publisher isn't doing the  
index himself).


* There's no outlining feature with expand/collapse and a distinction  
between headings and text, like you have in MS Word. While I don't  
find Word's outline feature very effective, it's better than almost  
all 3rd party outliners.




Weak points of MS Word - things that have failed me over the past decade

* If you want a consistent document, you need to put it all in one  
file. Maybe they've fixed that by now, but I've mercifully not had to  
deal with a giant Word document recently.


* If the document gets too big (100+ pages), random things start  
failing. In a previous version, I remember seeing bullet symbols  
randomly disappear from bullet lists when the document reached 100  
pages.


* I can't make cross references work as cleanly and reliably as they  
work in Frame.


* I can't control a figure's location as reliably as I can in Frame.

* I can't make chapter or section or figure or table numbering work as  
cleanly and reliably as it works in Frame.


* I can't change an individual paragraph's format as cleanly as I do  
in Frame. When I try to apply a Word style or a format or whatever to  
a paragraph, I get a bunch of questions about whether I'm trying to  
redefine the style or globally apply this paragraph's format to other  
things, or something else irrelevant.


* I can't reliably make a global change to a paragraph format and  
propagate it to all thusly-formatted paragraphs and do it as easily  
and reliably as I do in Frame.



Over the years I've learned how to fix some of my gripes about Word,  
but the fixes haven't always survived past the next product upgrade.



Rick Smith
Cryptosmith LLC

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RE: Active Areas from Frame-Generated Index(es)

[Combs, Richard]

Reng, Dr. Winfried wrote:
 
> I create only regular indices, and I get the behaviour I described
> and which I also found in official PDF files. You can get link
> areas across the whole line with regular indices. You do not
> need ALM or IOM.
> 
> Did you check the paragraph format of your separators on the
> reference page?

Hmm, you're right. Randomly checking a few files, I see that in each, the 
SeparatorsIX pgf uses a different font than the LevelIX and IndexIX pgfs (in 
fact, in each case it's the same as GroupTitlesIX). 

I have no recollection of ever consciously making that so, but I've 
consistently seen the behavior that this apparently introduces for many years, 
docs, and FM versions. And as I noted, that's the behavior of at least some of 
Adobe's docs (and of PDFs from other sources that I've encountered). 

Mind you, I prefer that behavior, so I'm glad that someone long ago made 
SeparatorsIX different, and I have no intention of changing it. It seems odd to 
me to have the text of an index entry hyperlinked to the first of several pages 
that the entry references. It seems perfectly natural, OTOH, to click the page 
number -- even if there is only one.  

But getting back to Eduardo's question, I suspect you've provided the answer 
for him: check the SeparatorsIX definition. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






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Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[steve]

Regarding a couple of Frame's shortcomings

Readability calculations


I also wanted to do some better structural and readability analysis for
documents, but couldn't. I made Readability Tools to do that analysis.
Features of Readability Tools include determining document statistics,
calculating standard readability formulas, generating readability reports,
and producing lists and counts of all words used in a document or book.
The Flesch Reading Ease, Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level, ARI (Automated
Readability Index), SMOG, and Gunning Fog Index readability tests are
available.

Creating outlines
-

When I'm writing technical docs, I like to create a traditional outline to
get the content organized. I really liked the outlining in Word 5.1 on the
Macintosh. (How old am I?!?!)I am not as happy with the outlining in the
more recent versions of Word. I did like the outlining template that uses
the auto-numbering in Frame, but found that it was difficult to push the
blocks of information around as I was working in the outline. So, I
created the Outline Tools plug-in for Frame that makes it easier to push
blocks of content around in an outline document.

You can read more about these tools at:

http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com

Steve


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Acrobat 9 Frustrations...

[Chris Despopoulos]

Yet again.

I know this has been discussed, but I can't seem to find it in my searches.

I have FrameMaker 8 and Acrobat 9 Pro.  I'm trying to move over to a Windows 7 
machine.  I have replicated my original setup that worked on my XP machine.  
But now when I try to save a book as PDF, I get an OffendingCommand error and 
no PDF is generated.  I can generate PDF for any single file in the book.  But 
I can't generate PDF for more than one file in the book.

I know there was some MS HotFix out there for XP, WinServer, and Vista.  I 
guess there was some memory problem where the PS printer drivers ran out of 
memory, unloaded fonts, and did other bad things.  Is this the same problem, 
only now on Win 7?  Or is it just some compatibility problem with FrameMaker 8 
and Acrobat 9?  

If anybody has any notion of what's happening, I'd be most thrilled.  I've just 
been too busy to catalog all these issues as they go by.

Thanks much...   cud



  
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Re: Framemaker 9 vs Microsoft Word

[Mike Wickham]

 There are no analytics of average sentence complexity or grade  level.


You might want to check out the very inexpensive Readability Tools plugin 
from .



There's no outlining feature with expand/collapse


The inexpensive Outline Tools plugin is also available from 
.


Mike Wickham


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