Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
I used Broadvision Quicksilver for quite a while until 2015’ish. Basically a Windows-based version of Interleaf. It was very useful, and working with their tech team was terrific. What changes they’ve made these past six years or so should be significant. Interleaf was definitely the Gold Standard and I suspect early FrameMaker was developed using many of it’s features. Chris Samoranski On Oct 14, 2021, 13:03 -0700, Steve Rickaby , wrote: > At 13:24 -0400 14/10/21, Lin Sims wrote: > > > Interleaf still exists, but it's called Quicksilver these days. > > So I've heard - but does anyone use it? > > -- > Steve > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
I will say among the many things that annoy about Adobe, the one that really, really annoys me is that it purports itself to be a technical communication company, yet after around FM 6.0, the absolutely FANTASTIC User guides that they produced to support the use of their products just when down the tubes . . .zip, zilch, nada for how many years now? I still have my very dog-eared, tattered Frame bibles that were sent w/ FM 5.5.6, 6.0 and 7.0 and they are my life-savers to this day when I need to remember how to do something that I haven't done in a long time. Nowadays, you're left to hunting and pecking out on the web, hoping like H*LL that someone in a forum has had the same problem asked and answered, or that in Adobe's lame excuse for Online documentation for any product, that you find a hint of what you need. I was stuck using RH2019 WAY before it was ready for prime time a few years ago and if it weren't for Matt Sullivan's class, and the support of Peter Grainger, and Surbhi Maheshwari directly from Adobe, I would have just slit my wrists and it shouldn't have had to be like that at all. Adobe's online "documentation" was so lame - grossly incomplete, flat out wrong in places, missing critical information. How on earth did they expect anyone to be able to use a brand new product w/out any decent user documentation - by osmosis or serendipitously? And yes, I agree - Adobe has D*MNED good products that meet the needs of projects unlike any other product, but w/out competent and timely support - either the human kind or the user guide kind - it doesn't matter. If you can't use the product the correct way and to its fullest extent, what's the point? Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com > -Original Message- > From: Framers bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On > Behalf Of tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:19 PM > To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > Amen!!! > > TVB > > Tammy Van Boening > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > www.spectrumwritingllc.com > > > -Original Message- > > From: Framers > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On > > Behalf Of Craig, Alison GLI/CA > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 11:15 AM > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > IMO, Adobe treats us as open wallets from which to extract more and > > more money - but they deal only reluctantly with our support issues > > (you have to be *very* persistent) and (almost) never fix the actual > > problem. (How many of you have searched the web for an "Adobe > > solution" and come across a bunch of forums with reams of the same > > complaint as yours, and the complaints date back 5, 7, 12 or more > > years?) > > > > I've also had the "unhelpful and/or hours-on-hold support" issue with > > other products (Creative Suite, anyone?) and don't get me started on > > the dog poo they call "Adobe Digital Editions", which they refuse to > > fix and also refuse to support. Yes, I know ADE is free, but do it right or > don't do it at all. > > > > Alison > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Framers > bounces+acraig=greenlightinnovation@lists.frameusers.com> On > > Behalf Of Caroline Tabach > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:47 PM > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > Well, I had Frame 7 for ages and ages, and used to see all the stories > > on forums, so never moved till we got Windows 10 and then went > > straight to frame 2015, so did not encounter these issues. > > > > Now I am in a place which is not using Frame > > > > Caroline Tabach > > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021, 23:17 , wrote: > > > > > Yea, pretty much. . . I figured after the installation fiascos that > > > started with the first attempt at the Technical Communication Suite > > > (TCS, > > > 2009 - remember that!), Adobe had to catch on fast about this issue, > > > but apparently that has not been the case. . . it was horrible then > > > and has stayed just as horrible now. . . at the time, I remember > > > that I referred to TCS as "Totally Cr*ppy Software.) > > > > > > I was an early adopter, and learned fast NOT to be in the case of Adobe. . > > > . that hosed my system so badly that I had to basically take it down > > > to bare metal and set everything up from scratch again and I was not > > > the only one who suffered such a fate. . . > > > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
Amen!!! TVB Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com > -Original Message- > From: Framers bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On > Behalf Of Craig, Alison GLI/CA > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 11:15 AM > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > IMO, Adobe treats us as open wallets from which to extract more and more > money - but they deal only reluctantly with our support issues (you have to > be *very* persistent) and (almost) never fix the actual problem. (How many > of you have searched the web for an "Adobe solution" and come across a > bunch of forums with reams of the same complaint as yours, and the > complaints date back 5, 7, 12 or more years?) > > I've also had the "unhelpful and/or hours-on-hold support" issue with other > products (Creative Suite, anyone?) and don't get me started on the dog poo > they call "Adobe Digital Editions", which they refuse to fix and also refuse > to > support. Yes, I know ADE is free, but do it right or don't do it at all. > > Alison > > > -Original Message- > From: Framers bounces+acraig=greenlightinnovation@lists.frameusers.com> On > Behalf Of Caroline Tabach > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:47 PM > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > Well, I had Frame 7 for ages and ages, and used to see all the stories on > forums, so never moved till we got Windows 10 and then went straight to > frame 2015, so did not encounter these issues. > > Now I am in a place which is not using Frame > > Caroline Tabach > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2021, 23:17 , wrote: > > > Yea, pretty much. . . I figured after the installation fiascos that > > started with the first attempt at the Technical Communication Suite > > (TCS, > > 2009 - remember that!), Adobe had to catch on fast about this issue, > > but apparently that has not been the case. . . it was horrible then > > and has stayed just as horrible now. . . at the time, I remember that > > I referred to TCS as "Totally Cr*ppy Software.) > > > > I was an early adopter, and learned fast NOT to be in the case of Adobe. . > > . that hosed my system so badly that I had to basically take it down > > to bare metal and set everything up from scratch again and I was not > > the only one who suffered such a fate. . . > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__;!!Oq50 > > -tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEap0 > > GTOUFa$ > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Framers > > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On > > > Behalf Of Peter Gold > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 1:34 PM > > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > > > Egad, Tammy! Are you saying, "At least it hasn't gotten worse?" :) > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 2:23 PM > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I just remember a conversation that I had with Dov many years ago > > > > when I was still attending conferences and even back then, I was > > > > lamenting about all that Adobe could do so wrong when it came to > > > > installing/reinstalling/uninstalling and Dov's comment to me was > > > > that a gentleman at the sister conference had commented to Dov > > > > "When in the H*LL is Adobe going to stop screwing up my systems!!!" > > > > > > > > Even after 20+ years of this, nothing has apparently changed and > > > > that is sad. > > > > > > > > TVB > > > > > > > > > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__;!! > > > > Oq50-tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS- > UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2 > > > > ORHqEap0GTOUFa$ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > From: Framers > > > > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> > On > > > > > Behalf Of A Craig > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:06 PM > > > > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software. > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us > > > > > Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wholeheartedly agree — except, sadly, I'm not semi-retired. > > > > > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com > > > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software." > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 12
Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019
Absolutely the LSP should return the finished product using the same software version. I would make a (nice) complaint so that this doesn't happen again - or to other clients. Alison -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 10:51 AM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019 Are you saying that the translator used an as-yet unreleased version? Possibly an NDA violation? Is the secret download location a pre-release repository? Shouldn't the translator return a client's project in the same release it was submitted, or in MIF, to maintain compatibility? On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 12:28 PM wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I was using FM 2019 sporadically. I received files back from a translator > in > a version of FM I could not open. Notpad showed it was FM 16, which I found > was 2020. > > > > I was never notified by Adobe about the new version, any upgrade, etc., > despite being subscribed. That was a bit annoying. > > > > Anyway, after a lengthy but successful support call, I was shown a secret > URL where I could get this new version of FrameMaker, downloaded it, and > installed it. > > > > The icon looks the same as FM 2019. The new version self-identifies as > version 16, not 2020. I don't see any obvious changes off the bat. Anyone > have any idea what the new changes to FM 2020 are, other than 2019 cannot > open 2020 files? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Sean > > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!Oq50-tQ!9_FFT5rqvLuonKOTyVsN1C8BxQYWsBwTOttPgRLOLt0OiiCzH3JP5CPZWuo4DQ2i8CQgzkjr$ > > Archives located at > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mail-archive.com/framers*40lists.frameusers.com/__;JQ!!Oq50-tQ!9_FFT5rqvLuonKOTyVsN1C8BxQYWsBwTOttPgRLOLt0OiiCzH3JP5CPZWuo4DQ2i8Ple8hAG$ > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com__;!!Oq50-tQ!9_FFT5rqvLuonKOTyVsN1C8BxQYWsBwTOttPgRLOLt0OiiCzH3JP5CPZWuo4DQ2i8IiHB5-D$ > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!Oq50-tQ!9_FFT5rqvLuonKOTyVsN1C8BxQYWsBwTOttPgRLOLt0OiiCzH3JP5CPZWuo4DQ2i8CQgzkjr$ Archives located at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mail-archive.com/framers*40lists.frameusers.com/__;JQ!!Oq50-tQ!9_FFT5rqvLuonKOTyVsN1C8BxQYWsBwTOttPgRLOLt0OiiCzH3JP5CPZWuo4DQ2i8Ple8hAG$ Subscribe and unsubscribe at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com__;!!Oq50-tQ!9_FFT5rqvLuonKOTyVsN1C8BxQYWsBwTOttPgRLOLt0OiiCzH3JP5CPZWuo4DQ2i8IiHB5-D$ Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
IMO, Adobe treats us as open wallets from which to extract more and more money - but they deal only reluctantly with our support issues (you have to be *very* persistent) and (almost) never fix the actual problem. (How many of you have searched the web for an "Adobe solution" and come across a bunch of forums with reams of the same complaint as yours, and the complaints date back 5, 7, 12 or more years?) I've also had the "unhelpful and/or hours-on-hold support" issue with other products (Creative Suite, anyone?) and don't get me started on the dog poo they call "Adobe Digital Editions", which they refuse to fix and also refuse to support. Yes, I know ADE is free, but do it right or don't do it at all. Alison -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Caroline Tabach Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:47 PM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe Well, I had Frame 7 for ages and ages, and used to see all the stories on forums, so never moved till we got Windows 10 and then went straight to frame 2015, so did not encounter these issues. Now I am in a place which is not using Frame Caroline Tabach On Wed, 13 Oct 2021, 23:17 , wrote: > Yea, pretty much. . . I figured after the installation fiascos that > started with the first attempt at the Technical Communication Suite (TCS, > 2009 - remember that!), Adobe had to catch on fast about this issue, but > apparently that has not been the case. . . it was horrible then and has > stayed just as horrible now. . . at the time, I remember that I referred to > TCS as "Totally Cr*ppy Software.) > > I was an early adopter, and learned fast NOT to be in the case of Adobe. . > . that hosed my system so badly that I had to basically take it down to > bare metal and set everything up from scratch again and I was not the only > one who suffered such a fate. . . > > Tammy Van Boening > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__;!!Oq50-tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS-UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEap0GTOUFa$ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Framers > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On > > Behalf Of Peter Gold > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 1:34 PM > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > Egad, Tammy! Are you saying, "At least it hasn't gotten worse?" :) > > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 2:23 PM > > wrote: > > > > > I just remember a conversation that I had with Dov many years ago when > > > I was still attending conferences and even back then, I was lamenting > > > about all that Adobe could do so wrong when it came to > > > installing/reinstalling/uninstalling and Dov's comment to me was that > > > a gentleman at the sister conference had commented to Dov "When in the > > > H*LL is Adobe going to stop screwing up my systems!!!" > > > > > > Even after 20+ years of this, nothing has apparently changed and that > > > is sad. > > > > > > TVB > > > > > > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__;!!Oq50-tQ!4YeNP0FWmIjoppPuC6df0zc9rQPfVoaiTMJ-jXcUS-UBlYEMRSBcfhP1w2ORHqEap0GTOUFa$ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: Framers > > > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On > > > > Behalf Of A Craig > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:06 PM > > > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software. > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > > > > > > > > > I wholeheartedly agree — except, sadly, I'm not semi-retired. > > > > > > > > Alison > > > > > > > > > > > > From: tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com > > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software." > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 12 October, 2021 15:55:26 > > > > Subject: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe > > > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe > > > > > > > > Because every single solitary time that I have to > > > > uninstall/reinstall an > > > Adobe > > > > app., I hold my breath to see what kind of friggin' rabbit hole > > > > Adobe > > > takes me > > > > down and yep, it pulled a doozy on me this week, and thanks to > > > > Adobe, I > > > lost > > > > a good 2 hours' worth of work to get my system back up to 'snuff. > > > > > > > > I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime in to > > > > the > > > thread > > > > from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that Adobe > > > > hates their customers. . . well, yea, I understand t
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
They must, or it wouldn't still be being updated and sold. On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 4:03 PM Steve Rickaby wrote: > At 13:24 -0400 14/10/21, Lin Sims wrote: > > >Interleaf still exists, but it's called Quicksilver these days. > > So I've heard - but does anyone use it? > > -- > Steve > ___ > -- Lin Sims ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019
Well, you are right. I now have FrameMaker 16 (2020), Adobe tech support gave me the link, but I have no idea if it is actually released or if I have a beta. Nobody said anything. The vendor was told to use FrameMaker 2019 and made a mistake and sent 2020 files. I don't know if they are part of a beta or not. I was expecting 2019 files, which I can open, so didn't ask for MIF. This opens more questions than those I originally asked Anyone in the know, feel free to chime in. Cheers, Sean -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 1:51 PM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019 Are you saying that the translator used an as-yet unreleased version? Possibly an NDA violation? Is the secret download location a pre-release repository? Shouldn't the translator return a client's project in the same release it was submitted, or in MIF, to maintain compatibility? On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 12:28 PM wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I was using FM 2019 sporadically. I received files back from a > translator in a version of FM I could not open. Notpad showed it was > FM 16, which I found was 2020. > > > > I was never notified by Adobe about the new version, any upgrade, > etc., despite being subscribed. That was a bit annoying. > > > > Anyway, after a lengthy but successful support call, I was shown a > secret URL where I could get this new version of FrameMaker, > downloaded it, and installed it. > > > > The icon looks the same as FM 2019. The new version self-identifies as > version 16, not 2020. I don't see any obvious changes off the bat. > Anyone have any idea what the new changes to FM 2020 are, other than > 2019 cannot open 2020 files? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Sean > > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
At 13:24 -0400 14/10/21, Lin Sims wrote: >Interleaf still exists, but it's called Quicksilver these days. So I've heard - but does anyone use it? -- Steve ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019
The current version of FrameMaker is 16.03.979. It was released last July/August and has had 3 updates so far. Frame's update function is busticated, but that seems to be an issue with Adobe's website. You have to download it from the trial page. As long as you're subscribed, it should install just fine. Every now and again I yell at people in the ACP program or the TCS support about how busted the download and update on the website are. The link from your account page to update Frame still, after 3 years (at least) takes you to the update page for Creative Cloud! Generally speaking, most of the updates were for DITA but there were some nice things added for us non-structured people. There's a navigation pane now that can be used to navigate within a document. Right now it's file-based, but there's hope that they'll be adding book-level navigation soon. They've also added a utility you can use to split files down into multiple files based on a tag name. It has XLIFF capability for translation services, although that requires use of structured/DITA. And it FINALLY has a button for converting selected text to sentence case. ;-) They also added buttons to remove a row or column from a table, which has proven useful. https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/features.html On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 1:50 PM Peter Gold wrote: > Are you saying that the translator used an as-yet unreleased version? > Possibly an NDA violation? > > Is the secret download location a pre-release repository? > > Shouldn't the translator return a client's project in the same release it > was submitted, or in MIF, to maintain compatibility? > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 12:28 PM wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I was using FM 2019 sporadically. I received files back from a translator > > in > > a version of FM I could not open. Notpad showed it was FM 16, which I > found > > was 2020. > > > > > > > > I was never notified by Adobe about the new version, any upgrade, etc., > > despite being subscribed. That was a bit annoying. > > > > > > > > Anyway, after a lengthy but successful support call, I was shown a secret > > URL where I could get this new version of FrameMaker, downloaded it, and > > installed it. > > > > > > > > The icon looks the same as FM 2019. The new version self-identifies as > > version 16, not 2020. I don't see any obvious changes off the bat. Anyone > > have any idea what the new changes to FM 2020 are, other than 2019 cannot > > open 2020 files? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > ___ > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > Archives located at > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > > > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > -- Lin Sims ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019
Are you saying that the translator used an as-yet unreleased version? Possibly an NDA violation? Is the secret download location a pre-release repository? Shouldn't the translator return a client's project in the same release it was submitted, or in MIF, to maintain compatibility? On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 12:28 PM wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I was using FM 2019 sporadically. I received files back from a translator > in > a version of FM I could not open. Notpad showed it was FM 16, which I found > was 2020. > > > > I was never notified by Adobe about the new version, any upgrade, etc., > despite being subscribed. That was a bit annoying. > > > > Anyway, after a lengthy but successful support call, I was shown a secret > URL where I could get this new version of FrameMaker, downloaded it, and > installed it. > > > > The icon looks the same as FM 2019. The new version self-identifies as > version 16, not 2020. I don't see any obvious changes off the bat. Anyone > have any idea what the new changes to FM 2020 are, other than 2019 cannot > open 2020 files? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Sean > > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
[Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019
Hi all, I was using FM 2019 sporadically. I received files back from a translator in a version of FM I could not open. Notpad showed it was FM 16, which I found was 2020. I was never notified by Adobe about the new version, any upgrade, etc., despite being subscribed. That was a bit annoying. Anyway, after a lengthy but successful support call, I was shown a secret URL where I could get this new version of FrameMaker, downloaded it, and installed it. The icon looks the same as FM 2019. The new version self-identifies as version 16, not 2020. I don't see any obvious changes off the bat. Anyone have any idea what the new changes to FM 2020 are, other than 2019 cannot open 2020 files? Cheers, Sean ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
Interleaf still exists, but it's called Quicksilver these days. https://broadvision.com/products/quicksilver/quicksilver-overview/ On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:24 PM Steve Rickaby wrote: > At 16:55 -0600 12/10/21, wrote: > > I tend to agree: all software eventually 'dies' as technology moves on. > Look at Interleaf, for example. But with the cost and effort required to > rewrite FrameMaker from scratch, including structure support, I don't see > it happening. In theory, though, it can be done incrementally, using code > refactoring. > > There is a maybe bright light on the horizon for us old folk. I read that > Cobol programmers can command astronomical fees these days to keep > 'essential' banking software alive. Just an idea... :-) > > -- > Steve > ___ > -- Lin Sims ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
A good reason NOT to speed-read technically-dense material, is that one tends to take humor seriously. For example, I'm imagining recalling retired engineers refactoring original FM code into COBOL! :) Thanks for the image, Steve! IIRC, the original proposals for FM were made by language-oriented folks seeking ways to *process* *language* with computers, rather than engineers looking for cool stuff to program. Technical writing is a hybrid of language and an underlying system to revise and manipulate it. Those who are good at practicing it, can't help but want it to continuously improve while serving its purpose, just as they do. On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 11:23 AM Steve Rickaby wrote: At 16:55 -0600 12/10/21, wrote: >I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime in to the >thread from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that Adobe >hates their customers. . . I think that was me. Long time past, I took a great many textbooks directly to press using FrameMaker and PDF as a pre-press format. Problems were few and solvable, and the only time I had to have recourse to FrameMaker support was in 1997, when an author, who had written his ms in Frame, had managed to create massive equations that would not 'fold'. These jobs included more than one using structure FrameMaker. All that was in FrameMaker version 7. Judging by what I read here, things don't seem to have improved much since Adobe hived FrameMaker off to India. At 19:43 + 13/10/21, nuhDEEN wrote: >However, the effort and expense to maintain the FM might be better spent on developing a completely new underlying software design that seems to work the same from a user's point-of-view I tend to agree: all software eventually 'dies' as technology moves on. Look at Interleaf, for example. But with the cost and effort required to rewrite FrameMaker from scratch, including structure support, I don't see it happening. In theory, though, it can be done incrementally, using code refactoring. There is a maybe bright light on the horizon for us old folk. I read that Cobol programmers can command astronomical fees these days to keep 'essential' banking software alive. Just an idea... :-) -- Steve ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
At 16:55 -0600 12/10/21, wrote: >I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime in to the >thread from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that Adobe >hates their customers. . . I think that was me. Long time past, I took a great many textbooks directly to press using FrameMaker and PDF as a pre-press format. Problems were few and solvable, and the only time I had to have recourse to FrameMaker support was in 1997, when an author, who had written his ms in Frame, had managed to create massive equations that would not 'fold'. These jobs included more than one using structure FrameMaker. All that was in FrameMaker version 7. Judging by what I read here, things don't seem to have improved much since Adobe hived FrameMaker off to India. At 19:43 + 13/10/21, nuhDEEN wrote: >However, the effort and expense to maintain the FM might be better spent on >developing a completely new underlying software design that seems to work the >same from a user's point-of-view I tend to agree: all software eventually 'dies' as technology moves on. Look at Interleaf, for example. But with the cost and effort required to rewrite FrameMaker from scratch, including structure support, I don't see it happening. In theory, though, it can be done incrementally, using code refactoring. There is a maybe bright light on the horizon for us old folk. I read that Cobol programmers can command astronomical fees these days to keep 'essential' banking software alive. Just an idea... :-) -- Steve ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
On 13 Oct 2021 at 14:21, Peter Gold wrote: > In the old days, Adobe had beta-test (AKA pre-release) programs, for which > interested volunteers who represent a range of users from single-person > business to large enterprises with multiple seats, could apply. Is there a > FM beta-test program now? Is anyone on this list in the program? Hello Peter, Yes, there is still a beta test program, and some people on this list (including me) are (semi-) active in that program. It is not that Adobe does nothing, but at least for me (I'm not in real business any more, fully retired) essential things aka old bugs are not targetted in the desired manner. Obviously the focus what FM shall do has changed and no more identical to my spot light... Yes, one of the nastiest areas where I had complained many times and needed help from Adobe experts is realted to installation and licensing. I know, my situation is strange, as I have installed (and running on Win10) FM-6 ... 16. And yes, I'm not a fan at all of subscriptions and cloud. I want to 'own' software... Klaus ~~~ Klaus Daube Phone: +41-44-381 37 77 Schäracher 11 Mail: kl...@daube.ch CH-8053 Zürich Web:www.daube.ch ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Other tools
Affinity Publisher lacks FM- and iD- technical-authoring tools, like x-refs, hierarchical running H/Fs, multi-file books. The Serif AP user forum reveals that footnotes were added after being requested. This stirs optimism that other feature requests will be fulfilled ... in due time. Requests for FM table rows and footnotes that can split across text frame boundaries likewise ... in due time. Some features are essential to delivering projects. Some aren't. The ability to meet deadlines and requirements rules one's choice of professional tools ... in real time. On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 7:17 AM Shmuel Wolfson wrote: > Affinity looks great for magazines, but it currently lacks support for > cross-references, so it's not an option for books IMHO. But it seems > like it is a feature thta they want to add. See > > https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120048-cross-reference-support/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-844902 > > I'm not sure about online help. It seems to have a "web" option, but I > couldn't find any videos about that option, so I can't tell if it would > be an option for online help. > > > On 14-Oct-21 2:00 PM, D B wrote: > > Someone mentioned Affinity here, so I installed it. It looks like it > has a > > lot of potential, but It was more than I needed right now so I didn't put > > much effort into using it. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:49 AM Caroline Tabach < > caroline.tab...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Someone said they hesitated to recommend Frame because of recent > >> installation issues, so told a company to try something else. > >> > >> Can you tell me what it was? > >> > >> We need to put our docs online > >> > >> Caroline Tabach > >> ___ > >> > >> This message is from the Framers mailing list > >> > >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > >> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > >> Archives located at > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at > >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > >> > > ___ > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Other tools
If you have the option of porting to a different authoring system for your source docs, I've long been a fan (and MVP) of WebWorks ePublisher. It's very flexible and you can create multiple outputs. Nadine On Thursday, October 14, 2021, 11:07:00 a.m. EDT, Caroline Tabach wrote: After leaving Framemaker (which I worked with for about 20 years!), I arrived at a company which publishes everything directly to the web using Document360. But this doesn't do everything I want, so I am looking into different options, to publish to the web, create PDF files if required, as well as make a html 5 help file. So I am looking for something else Happy to hear ideas offline Caroline Tabach On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 16:08 nuhDEEN, wrote: Caroline, what are you using now to create your source docs? Nadine On Thursday, October 14, 2021, 08:34:23 a.m. EDT, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: Affinity looks great for magazines, but it currently lacks support for cross-references, so it's not an option for books IMHO. But it seems like it is a feature thta they want to add. See https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120048-cross-reference-support/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-844902 I'm not sure about online help. It seems to have a "web" option, but I couldn't find any videos about that option, so I can't tell if it would be an option for online help. On 14-Oct-21 2:00 PM, D B wrote: > Someone mentioned Affinity here, so I installed it. It looks like it has a > lot of potential, but It was more than I needed right now so I didn't put > much effort into using it. > > Doug > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:49 AM Caroline Tabach > wrote: > >> Someone said they hesitated to recommend Frame because of recent >> installation issues, so told a company to try something else. >> >> Can you tell me what it was? >> >> We need to put our docs online >> >> Caroline Tabach >> ___ >> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list >> >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com >> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com >> Archives located at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com >> > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Other tools
After leaving Framemaker (which I worked with for about 20 years!), I arrived at a company which publishes everything directly to the web using Document360. But this doesn't do everything I want, so I am looking into different options, to publish to the web, create PDF files if required, as well as make a html 5 help file. So I am looking for something else Happy to hear ideas offline Caroline Tabach On Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 16:08 nuhDEEN, wrote: > Caroline, what are you using now to create your source docs? > > Nadine > > On Thursday, October 14, 2021, 08:34:23 a.m. EDT, Shmuel Wolfson < > shmue...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Affinity looks great for magazines, but it currently lacks support for > cross-references, so it's not an option for books IMHO. But it seems > like it is a feature thta they want to add. See > > https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120048-cross-reference-support/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-844902 > > I'm not sure about online help. It seems to have a "web" option, but I > couldn't find any videos about that option, so I can't tell if it would > be an option for online help. > > > On 14-Oct-21 2:00 PM, D B wrote: > > Someone mentioned Affinity here, so I installed it. It looks like it > has a > > lot of potential, but It was more than I needed right now so I didn't put > > much effort into using it. > > > > Doug > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:49 AM Caroline Tabach < > caroline.tab...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Someone said they hesitated to recommend Frame because of recent > >> installation issues, so told a company to try something else. > >> > >> Can you tell me what it was? > >> > >> We need to put our docs online > >> > >> Caroline Tabach > >> ___ > >> > >> This message is from the Framers mailing list > >> > >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > >> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > >> Archives located at > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at > >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > > >> > > ___ > > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Other tools
Caroline, what are you using now to create your source docs? Nadine On Thursday, October 14, 2021, 08:34:23 a.m. EDT, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: Affinity looks great for magazines, but it currently lacks support for cross-references, so it's not an option for books IMHO. But it seems like it is a feature thta they want to add. See https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120048-cross-reference-support/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-844902 I'm not sure about online help. It seems to have a "web" option, but I couldn't find any videos about that option, so I can't tell if it would be an option for online help. On 14-Oct-21 2:00 PM, D B wrote: > Someone mentioned Affinity here, so I installed it. It looks like it has a > lot of potential, but It was more than I needed right now so I didn't put > much effort into using it. > > Doug > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:49 AM Caroline Tabach > wrote: > >> Someone said they hesitated to recommend Frame because of recent >> installation issues, so told a company to try something else. >> >> Can you tell me what it was? >> >> We need to put our docs online >> >> Caroline Tabach >> ___ >> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list >> >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com >> Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com >> Archives located at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com >> > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Other tools
Affinity looks great for magazines, but it currently lacks support for cross-references, so it's not an option for books IMHO. But it seems like it is a feature thta they want to add. See https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120048-cross-reference-support/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-844902 I'm not sure about online help. It seems to have a "web" option, but I couldn't find any videos about that option, so I can't tell if it would be an option for online help. On 14-Oct-21 2:00 PM, D B wrote: Someone mentioned Affinity here, so I installed it. It looks like it has a lot of potential, but It was more than I needed right now so I didn't put much effort into using it. Doug On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:49 AM Caroline Tabach wrote: Someone said they hesitated to recommend Frame because of recent installation issues, so told a company to try something else. Can you tell me what it was? We need to put our docs online Caroline Tabach ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Other tools
Someone mentioned Affinity here, so I installed it. It looks like it has a lot of potential, but It was more than I needed right now so I didn't put much effort into using it. Doug On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:49 AM Caroline Tabach wrote: > Someone said they hesitated to recommend Frame because of recent > installation issues, so told a company to try something else. > > Can you tell me what it was? > > We need to put our docs online > > Caroline Tabach > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com > Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com > Archives located at > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ > Subscribe and unsubscribe at > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com > ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Why so many of us feel the way we do about Adobe
To continue my previous email, I agree that if PDF is not an output you supply to the customers, than there are lots of good options out there that may be cheaper than FM and have other benefits. But there are plenty of products out there that still come with a PDF, or have one available if you go to their support page. I don't know how people can say that PDF is dead. I've never has a cellphone or a printer that I could not download it's manual. On the other hand, those type of products don't need online help, so you could use any page layout program for them. It could by that my company is someone unique in needed nice PDFs for most products, and online help for others. -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 058-763-7133 ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Why so many of us feel the way we do about Adobe
I don't know why everyone likes bashing FrameMaker. Is there anything else that: • Is suitable for long books. • Gives you PDF output as is appears while you are working (WYSIWYG). • Can be converted to online help, (even if it requires buying an extra program). FM happens to have online help conversion built-in, but I could live without that if that was another decent authoring tool that worked together with another decently priced conversion tool. Word comes close to checking all those boxes, but has problems with large files and other issues. Someone mention another page layout program recently, but I forgot what it was. Maybe it was Xara Page & Layout Designer. But can it do online help at all? Please post if you know of another authoring tool that is excellent for PDFs and can be used for online help. My biggest gripe with FM is the price, but you know what, you really don't need to buy every new version that comes out. Do you buy every new smartphone that comes out, or wait until you need a new phone? Anyone under 20 is excluded from answering that question :) -- Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 058-763-7133 ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
Hi, OK. I did not have such severe problems as some of you. My impression is that Adobe and the FrameMaker development reacts much more quickly than "in the good old days", when there was no-one from Adobe to talk to. And at least now FrameMaker is as stable as e.g. FM 7. Adobe now also releases updates every some months to fix bugs and to add new features. Some years ago there was nothing. Yes. Everything can be better, but the situation is not as bad as some of you imply. Best regards Winfried -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:55 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe Because every single solitary time that I have to uninstall/reinstall an Adobe app., I hold my breath to see what kind of friggin' rabbit hole Adobe takes me down and yep, it pulled a doozy on me this week, and thanks to Adobe, I lost a good 2 hours' worth of work to get my system back up to 'snuff. I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime in to the thread from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that Adobe hates their customers. . . well, yea, I understand that feeling. I LOVE Adobe products. . . I HATE installing/uninstalling them and I hate that Adobe apparently does absolutely NO regression/system testing on their stuff when it comes to this. Count me in as another very dissatisfied and p*ssed off Adobe customer who is grateful to be semi-retired and not having to deal w/ this cr*p for much longer. Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com