subject:"Confluence 4 export\: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10"

Yes, I guess we're using CT like text insets on a very fine-grained scale.

Darn about the lack of content reuse in Confluence. Since that thread in July, 
I read some of Confluence's marketing material and got hopeful that they might 
have enough text-inset-like behaviour for our needs. The AutoDesk hybrid system 
looks great but is way out of our budget. Back to XML, I guess.

The goal of this is to get our software developers helping to write the user 
docs. The software developers don't want to use XML because it's difficult to 
learn. They want a nice straightforward wiki. I'll have to see if it's possible 
to make XML authoring easy enough that software developers can pick it up with 
pretty much no training. Ugh. 

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> Robert Lauriston  28/11/12 17:49 >>>
Ah, so you're using conditional text like text insets.

Neither Confluence nor any other extant wiki is set up for reusing
content. We discussed that in detail in July in the "Single sourcing
from Frame and a wiki ... or something ..." topic you started. As I
noted there, AutoDesk's hybrid system does what you want but it's
expensive.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 8:02 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Hi Robert
>
> Thanks for discussing this - I really appreciate it.
>
> Our company produces half a dozen different hardware products with similar
> software feature sets. There's a lot of feature overlap. And we do new
> software releases at least annually. We've got one set of source FM files,
> and we use conditional text to build a document set for each product at each
> new release. Without conditional text, we'd have to maintain multiple
> similar copies of FM files, which would be an error-rich nightmare. Many of
> the differences are at the word or sentence level, but we could rewrite them
> into separate paragraphs if we have to.
>
> I think, if we go to Confluence, we'll need to create one wiki space per
> product (per release), so we can keep delivering product-specific info. That
> would mean maintaining multiple similar copies, unless we can reuse content
> in multiple spaces. So I'm trying to work out what the Confluence model is
> for reusing content, and how we could get there from FM.

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If you have received this message in error please
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

Hi Robert

Thanks for discussing this - I really appreciate it.

Our company produces half a dozen different hardware products with similar 
software feature sets. There's a lot of feature overlap. And we do new software 
releases at least annually. We've got one set of source FM files, and we use 
conditional text to build a document set for each product at each new release. 
Without conditional text, we'd have to maintain multiple similar copies of FM 
files, which would be an error-rich nightmare. Many of the differences are at 
the word or sentence level, but we could rewrite them into separate paragraphs 
if we have to. 

I think, if we go to Confluence, we'll need to create one wiki space per 
product (per release), so we can keep delivering product-specific info. That 
would mean maintaining multiple similar copies, unless we can reuse content in 
multiple spaces. So I'm trying to work out what the Confluence model is for 
reusing content, and how we could get there from FM.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> Robert Lauriston  28/11/12 14:31 >>>
Confluence excerpts are comparable to FrameMaker text insets, not
conditional text.

What are you using conditional text for? Few of the things I've used
it for in FrameMaker make any sense in a wiki.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Oops, I meant "Confluence excerpts".
> https://marketplace.atlassian.com/plugins/biz.artemissoftware.confluence.multiexcerpt.MultiExcerptMacro
>
> So here's my question in a form that might make sense:
>
> Am I right that at the moment, the best FM-to-Confluence flow would be:
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence excerpts?
>
> If there's an easier flow for converting conditional-text-rich FM files into
> Confluence, I'd really appreciate someone describing it.

NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee
named above. If you are not the intended recipient of
this message you are hereby notified that you must not
disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it.
If you have received this message in error please
notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the
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be the views of Allied Telesis Labs.
-- next part --
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

Oops, I meant "Confluence excerpts". 
https://marketplace.atlassian.com/plugins/biz.artemissoftware.confluence.multiexcerpt.MultiExcerptMacro

So here's my question in a form that might make sense:

Am I right that at the moment, the best FM-to-Confluence flow would be:
1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to Confluence 
excerpts?

If there's an easier flow for converting conditional-text-rich FM files into 
Confluence, I'd really appreciate someone describing it.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> Robert Lauriston  27/11/12 05:34 >>>
What are "Confluence extracts"?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 7:50 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
...
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence extracts
...

>>> "rebecca officer"  23/11/12 16:50 
>>> >>>
Make that 7 people interested in MIF2Go and Confluence. We're not MIF2Go users 
but if it supported bulk export to Confluence 4, we'd become users in a flash. 
If it could roundtrip, I'd be over the moon.

Jeremy, I don't want to ask you to put your time into unproductive stuff, but 
if you could describe how MIF2Go's Confluence export handles conditional text, 
I'd appreciate it. Am I right that at the moment, the best flow would be:
1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to Confluence 
extracts

We'd quite like to move to Confluence 4 for its collaborative work environment, 
but we'd have to convert 10K pages of conditional-text-rich content. That's 
extremely offputting.  

Thanks for all the info in this thread; it's been very informative.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> "Jeremy H. Griffith"  21/11/12 11:26 >>>
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:28:01 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
>tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
>command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
>import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
>unsupported?
>
>https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Sounds like a good Open Source project for a 
Confluence user/developer.  It doesn't make 
sense to add it to Mif2Go except as a separate
program anyway, like the other many free utilities
that come with it.  And frankly, it doesn't make
sense for us to spend that much engineering time 
to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care 
about Confluence at all...  ;-)

Of course, if they don't support their own CLI,
what are the odds the APIs work?  Not good, I'd 
say, which may be why nobody has done a batch
import utility yet.

>Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
>documented XHTML storage format.

Does Frame import any of them itself?  You'd lose
a lot, and have to completely redo the markup;
that's why we advise adding such content by hand
(copy/paste as PLAIN TEXT only) to the existing 
Frame files.  It saves a lot of time over a complete 
redo of formats, markers, and conditions.  You'd
think re-import would save time, but you'd be 
very wrong.  ;-)

Thanks again for helping us to get the XHTML format
right; that was also a lot of engineering, and it
would have been much more without your critical 
eye on the testing.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

Yes, I guess we're using CT like text insets on a very fine-grained scale.

Darn about the lack of content reuse in Confluence. Since that thread in July, 
I read some of Confluence's marketing material and got hopeful that they might 
have enough text-inset-like behaviour for our needs. The AutoDesk hybrid system 
looks great but is way out of our budget. Back to XML, I guess.

The goal of this is to get our software developers helping to write the user 
docs. The software developers don't want to use XML because it's difficult to 
learn. They want a nice straightforward wiki. I'll have to see if it's possible 
to make XML authoring easy enough that software developers can pick it up with 
pretty much no training. Ugh. 

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> Robert Lauriston  28/11/12 17:49 >>>
Ah, so you're using conditional text like text insets.

Neither Confluence nor any other extant wiki is set up for reusing
content. We discussed that in detail in July in the "Single sourcing
from Frame and a wiki ... or something ..." topic you started. As I
noted there, AutoDesk's hybrid system does what you want but it's
expensive.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 8:02 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Hi Robert
>
> Thanks for discussing this - I really appreciate it.
>
> Our company produces half a dozen different hardware products with similar
> software feature sets. There's a lot of feature overlap. And we do new
> software releases at least annually. We've got one set of source FM files,
> and we use conditional text to build a document set for each product at each
> new release. Without conditional text, we'd have to maintain multiple
> similar copies of FM files, which would be an error-rich nightmare. Many of
> the differences are at the word or sentence level, but we could rewrite them
> into separate paragraphs if we have to.
>
> I think, if we go to Confluence, we'll need to create one wiki space per
> product (per release), so we can keep delivering product-specific info. That
> would mean maintaining multiple similar copies, unless we can reuse content
> in multiple spaces. So I'm trying to work out what the Confluence model is
> for reusing content, and how we could get there from FM.

NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee
named above. If you are not the intended recipient of
this message you are hereby notified that you must not
disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it.
If you have received this message in error please
notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the
individual sender, except where the sender has the
authority to issue and specifically states them to
be the views of Allied Telesis Labs.
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-28 Thread Robert Lauriston

Ah, so you're using conditional text like text insets.

Neither Confluence nor any other extant wiki is set up for reusing
content. We discussed that in detail in July in the "Single sourcing
from Frame and a wiki ... or something ..." topic you started. As I
noted there, AutoDesk's hybrid system does what you want but it's
expensive.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 8:02 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Hi Robert
>
> Thanks for discussing this - I really appreciate it.
>
> Our company produces half a dozen different hardware products with similar
> software feature sets. There's a lot of feature overlap. And we do new
> software releases at least annually. We've got one set of source FM files,
> and we use conditional text to build a document set for each product at each
> new release. Without conditional text, we'd have to maintain multiple
> similar copies of FM files, which would be an error-rich nightmare. Many of
> the differences are at the word or sentence level, but we could rewrite them
> into separate paragraphs if we have to.
>
> I think, if we go to Confluence, we'll need to create one wiki space per
> product (per release), so we can keep delivering product-specific info. That
> would mean maintaining multiple similar copies, unless we can reuse content
> in multiple spaces. So I'm trying to work out what the Confluence model is
> for reusing content, and how we could get there from FM.
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

Hi Robert

Thanks for discussing this - I really appreciate it.

Our company produces half a dozen different hardware products with similar 
software feature sets. There's a lot of feature overlap. And we do new software 
releases at least annually. We've got one set of source FM files, and we use 
conditional text to build a document set for each product at each new release. 
Without conditional text, we'd have to maintain multiple similar copies of FM 
files, which would be an error-rich nightmare. Many of the differences are at 
the word or sentence level, but we could rewrite them into separate paragraphs 
if we have to. 

I think, if we go to Confluence, we'll need to create one wiki space per 
product (per release), so we can keep delivering product-specific info. That 
would mean maintaining multiple similar copies, unless we can reuse content in 
multiple spaces. So I'm trying to work out what the Confluence model is for 
reusing content, and how we could get there from FM.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> Robert Lauriston  28/11/12 14:31 >>>
Confluence excerpts are comparable to FrameMaker text insets, not
conditional text.

What are you using conditional text for? Few of the things I've used
it for in FrameMaker make any sense in a wiki.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Oops, I meant "Confluence excerpts".
> https://marketplace.atlassian.com/plugins/biz.artemissoftware.confluence.multiexcerpt.MultiExcerptMacro
>
> So here's my question in a form that might make sense:
>
> Am I right that at the moment, the best FM-to-Confluence flow would be:
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence excerpts?
>
> If there's an easier flow for converting conditional-text-rich FM files into
> Confluence, I'd really appreciate someone describing it.

NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee
named above. If you are not the intended recipient of
this message you are hereby notified that you must not
disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it.
If you have received this message in error please
notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the
individual sender, except where the sender has the
authority to issue and specifically states them to
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-28 Thread Robert Lauriston

Confluence excerpts are comparable to FrameMaker text insets, not
conditional text.

What are you using conditional text for? Few of the things I've used
it for in FrameMaker make any sense in a wiki.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Oops, I meant "Confluence excerpts".
> https://marketplace.atlassian.com/plugins/biz.artemissoftware.confluence.multiexcerpt.MultiExcerptMacro
>
> So here's my question in a form that might make sense:
>
> Am I right that at the moment, the best FM-to-Confluence flow would be:
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence excerpts?
>
> If there's an easier flow for converting conditional-text-rich FM files into
> Confluence, I'd really appreciate someone describing it.
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

Oops, I meant "Confluence excerpts". 
https://marketplace.atlassian.com/plugins/biz.artemissoftware.confluence.multiexcerpt.MultiExcerptMacro

So here's my question in a form that might make sense:

Am I right that at the moment, the best FM-to-Confluence flow would be:
1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to Confluence 
excerpts?

If there's an easier flow for converting conditional-text-rich FM files into 
Confluence, I'd really appreciate someone describing it.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> Robert Lauriston  27/11/12 05:34 >>>
What are "Confluence extracts"?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 7:50 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
...
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence extracts
...

>>> "rebecca officer"  23/11/12 16:50 >>>
Make that 7 people interested in MIF2Go and Confluence. We're not MIF2Go users 
but if it supported bulk export to Confluence 4, we'd become users in a flash. 
If it could roundtrip, I'd be over the moon.

Jeremy, I don't want to ask you to put your time into unproductive stuff, but 
if you could describe how MIF2Go's Confluence export handles conditional text, 
I'd appreciate it. Am I right that at the moment, the best flow would be:
1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to Confluence 
extracts

We'd quite like to move to Confluence 4 for its collaborative work environment, 
but we'd have to convert 10K pages of conditional-text-rich content. That's 
extremely offputting.  

Thanks for all the info in this thread; it's been very informative.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> "Jeremy H. Griffith"  21/11/12 11:26 >>>
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:28:01 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
>tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
>command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
>import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
>unsupported?
>
>https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Sounds like a good Open Source project for a 
Confluence user/developer.  It doesn't make 
sense to add it to Mif2Go except as a separate
program anyway, like the other many free utilities
that come with it.  And frankly, it doesn't make
sense for us to spend that much engineering time 
to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care 
about Confluence at all...  ;-)

Of course, if they don't support their own CLI,
what are the odds the APIs work?  Not good, I'd 
say, which may be why nobody has done a batch
import utility yet.

>Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
>documented XHTML storage format.

Does Frame import any of them itself?  You'd lose
a lot, and have to completely redo the markup;
that's why we advise adding such content by hand
(copy/paste as PLAIN TEXT only) to the existing 
Frame files.  It saves a lot of time over a complete 
redo of formats, markers, and conditions.  You'd
think re-import would save time, but you'd be 
very wrong.  ;-)

Thanks again for helping us to get the XHTML format
right; that was also a lot of engineering, and it
would have been much more without your critical 
eye on the testing.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
___

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Any views expressed in this message are those of the
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If you have received this message i

Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-27 Thread Robert Lauriston

Ah, so you're using conditional text like text insets.

Neither Confluence nor any other extant wiki is set up for reusing
content. We discussed that in detail in July in the "Single sourcing
from Frame and a wiki ... or something ..." topic you started. As I
noted there, AutoDesk's hybrid system does what you want but it's
expensive.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 8:02 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Hi Robert
>
> Thanks for discussing this - I really appreciate it.
>
> Our company produces half a dozen different hardware products with similar
> software feature sets. There's a lot of feature overlap. And we do new
> software releases at least annually. We've got one set of source FM files,
> and we use conditional text to build a document set for each product at each
> new release. Without conditional text, we'd have to maintain multiple
> similar copies of FM files, which would be an error-rich nightmare. Many of
> the differences are at the word or sentence level, but we could rewrite them
> into separate paragraphs if we have to.
>
> I think, if we go to Confluence, we'll need to create one wiki space per
> product (per release), so we can keep delivering product-specific info. That
> would mean maintaining multiple similar copies, unless we can reuse content
> in multiple spaces. So I'm trying to work out what the Confluence model is
> for reusing content, and how we could get there from FM.

Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-27 Thread Robert Lauriston

Confluence excerpts are comparable to FrameMaker text insets, not
conditional text.

What are you using conditional text for? Few of the things I've used
it for in FrameMaker make any sense in a wiki.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
> Oops, I meant "Confluence excerpts".
> https://marketplace.atlassian.com/plugins/biz.artemissoftware.confluence.multiexcerpt.MultiExcerptMacro
>
> So here's my question in a form that might make sense:
>
> Am I right that at the moment, the best FM-to-Confluence flow would be:
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence excerpts?
>
> If there's an easier flow for converting conditional-text-rich FM files into
> Confluence, I'd really appreciate someone describing it.

Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-27 Thread Robert Lauriston

What are "Confluence extracts"?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 7:50 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
...
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence extracts
...
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-26 Thread Robert Lauriston

What are "Confluence extracts"?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 7:50 PM, rebecca officer
 wrote:
...
> 1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
> 2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
> 3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to
> Confluence extracts
...

Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-23 Thread rebecca officer

Make that 7 people interested in MIF2Go and Confluence. We're not MIF2Go users 
but if it supported bulk export to Confluence 4, we'd become users in a flash. 
If it could roundtrip, I'd be over the moon.

Jeremy, I don't want to ask you to put your time into unproductive stuff, but 
if you could describe how MIF2Go's Confluence export handles conditional text, 
I'd appreciate it. Am I right that at the moment, the best flow would be:
1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to Confluence 
extracts

We'd quite like to move to Confluence 4 for its collaborative work environment, 
but we'd have to convert 10K pages of conditional-text-rich content. That's 
extremely offputting.  

Thanks for all the info in this thread; it's been very informative.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> "Jeremy H. Griffith"  21/11/12 11:26 >>>
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:28:01 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
>tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
>command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
>import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
>unsupported?
>
>https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Sounds like a good Open Source project for a 
Confluence user/developer.  It doesn't make 
sense to add it to Mif2Go except as a separate
program anyway, like the other many free utilities
that come with it.  And frankly, it doesn't make
sense for us to spend that much engineering time 
to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care 
about Confluence at all...  ;-)

Of course, if they don't support their own CLI,
what are the odds the APIs work?  Not good, I'd 
say, which may be why nobody has done a batch
import utility yet.

>Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
>documented XHTML storage format.

Does Frame import any of them itself?  You'd lose
a lot, and have to completely redo the markup;
that's why we advise adding such content by hand
(copy/paste as PLAIN TEXT only) to the existing 
Frame files.  It saves a lot of time over a complete 
redo of formats, markers, and conditions.  You'd
think re-import would save time, but you'd be 
very wrong.  ;-)

Thanks again for helping us to get the XHTML format
right; that was also a lot of engineering, and it
would have been much more without your critical 
eye on the testing.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-23 Thread rebecca officer

Make that 7 people interested in MIF2Go and Confluence. We're not MIF2Go users 
but if it supported bulk export to Confluence 4, we'd become users in a flash. 
If it could roundtrip, I'd be over the moon.

Jeremy, I don't want to ask you to put your time into unproductive stuff, but 
if you could describe how MIF2Go's Confluence export handles conditional text, 
I'd appreciate it. Am I right that at the moment, the best flow would be:
1) use MIF2Go to export Confluence 4 XHTML from FM
2) import the output into Confluence one page at a time
3) manually muck with each page to convert the conditional text to Confluence 
extracts

We'd quite like to move to Confluence 4 for its collaborative work environment, 
but we'd have to convert 10K pages of conditional-text-rich content. That's 
extremely offputting.  

Thanks for all the info in this thread; it's been very informative.

Cheers
Rebecca

>>> "Jeremy H. Griffith"  21/11/12 11:26 >>>
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:28:01 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
>tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
>command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
>import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
>unsupported?
>
>https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Sounds like a good Open Source project for a 
Confluence user/developer.  It doesn't make 
sense to add it to Mif2Go except as a separate
program anyway, like the other many free utilities
that come with it.  And frankly, it doesn't make
sense for us to spend that much engineering time 
to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care 
about Confluence at all...  ;-)

Of course, if they don't support their own CLI,
what are the odds the APIs work?  Not good, I'd 
say, which may be why nobody has done a batch
import utility yet.

>Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
>documented XHTML storage format.

Does Frame import any of them itself?  You'd lose
a lot, and have to completely redo the markup;
that's why we advise adding such content by hand
(copy/paste as PLAIN TEXT only) to the existing 
Frame files.  It saves a lot of time over a complete 
redo of formats, markers, and conditions.  You'd
think re-import would save time, but you'd be 
very wrong.  ;-)

Thanks again for helping us to get the XHTML format
right; that was also a lot of engineering, and it
would have been much more without your critical 
eye on the testing.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-22 Thread Jim Owens

FWIW, there is a free product called AutoIT that allows you to automate 
complex interactions with the GUI.  The programming language is 
well-documented and quite powerful.

On 2012-11-21 13:32, Robert Lauriston wrote:
> The manual page-by-page import I've done is too complicated to
> automate. You'd want to use one of the APIs or the plugin SDK for bulk
> import.
>
>

Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-22 Thread Jim Owens

FWIW, there is a free product called AutoIT that allows you to automate 
complex interactions with the GUI.  The programming language is 
well-documented and quite powerful.


On 2012-11-21 13:32, Robert Lauriston wrote:

The manual page-by-page import I've done is too complicated to
automate. You'd want to use one of the APIs or the plugin SDK for bulk
import.




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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-22 Thread Robert Lauriston

The manual page-by-page import I've done is too complicated to
automate. You'd want to use one of the APIs or the plugin SDK for bulk
import.

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Jeremy H. Griffith  wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:59:01 -0500, Jim Owens
>  wrote:
>
>>- If you produce pages in Confluence Storage Format (the modified
>>XHTML), you can't import them to Confluence.
>
> From what Robert said at the start of this thread,
> he *could* import the new format one page at a time.
> The problem was bulk import.
>
> Has anyone tried the workaround of a KB macro to
> do the import, called in a loop?  ;-)  There are a
> lot of free KB macro utilities olut there.
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-22 Thread Robert Lauriston

Confluence 4's Import from Disk feature uses the undocumented XML
format created by the Export to XML feature.

I experimented with using Webworks ePublisher Designer to convert from
FrameMaker to Confluence 4. It looks fine, but when you edit a page
the code is an uneditable mess of macros and whatnot due to Webworks
using Confluence 3.x wiki markup rather than Confluence 4 XHTML. It
would be fine for read-only publishing.
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-22 Thread Roger Shuttleworth

There was a Confluence plugin that would import a ditamap into 
Confluence 3.5. I believe it was called Dita2Confluence and was 
developed by Lisa Dyer. It worked pretty well once you got the 
environment variables sorted out. But it was only one-way, so you 
couldn't use it to update your XML files.


Then Confluence moved from wiki markup in v.3 to XHTML in v.4, rendering 
the import utility obsolete. As far as I know there has been no 
development of it since then. Indeed, in moving to v.4 Confluence broke 
a number of other things, including most if not all of our user macros. 
We are still using 3.5.


Roger Shuttleworth
London, Canada

On 21/11/2012 10:32 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:

Hi Jeremy

Make that *SIX *MIF2Go users; I care about Confluence too. ;-)

I played with DITA, Confluence and WebWorks ePublisher a while ago, 
and I think I somehow managed to import a collection of files into 
Confluence. Maybe this can help?


http://ffeathers.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/epublisher-for-converting-documents-to-confluence-wiki/

Cheers

--
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu 

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith > wrote:


(...) And frankly, it doesn't make
sense for us to spend that much engineering time
to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care
about Confluence at all...  ;-)






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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Yves Barbion

Hi Jeremy

Make that *SIX *MIF2Go users; I care about Confluence too. ;-)

I played with DITA, Confluence and WebWorks ePublisher a while ago, and I
think I somehow managed to import a collection of files into Confluence.
Maybe this can help?

http://ffeathers.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/epublisher-for-converting-documents-to-confluence-wiki/

Cheers

-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

> (...) And frankly, it doesn't make
> sense for us to spend that much engineering time
> to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care
> about Confluence at all...  ;-)
>
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Jeremy H. Griffith

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:59:01 -0500, Jim Owens 
 wrote:

>- If you produce pages in Confluence Storage Format (the modified 
>XHTML), you can't import them to Confluence.

>From what Robert said at the start of this thread,
he *could* import the new format one page at a time.
The problem was bulk import.

Has anyone tried the workaround of a KB macro to
do the import, called in a loop?  ;-)  There are a
lot of free KB macro utilities olut there.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/

Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Roger Shuttleworth

There was a Confluence plugin that would import a ditamap into 
Confluence 3.5. I believe it was called Dita2Confluence and was 
developed by Lisa Dyer. It worked pretty well once you got the 
environment variables sorted out. But it was only one-way, so you 
couldn't use it to update your XML files.

Then Confluence moved from wiki markup in v.3 to XHTML in v.4, rendering 
the import utility obsolete. As far as I know there has been no 
development of it since then. Indeed, in moving to v.4 Confluence broke 
a number of other things, including most if not all of our user macros. 
We are still using 3.5.

Roger Shuttleworth
London, Canada

On 21/11/2012 10:32 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:
> Hi Jeremy
>
> Make that *SIX *MIF2Go users; I care about Confluence too. ;-)
>
> I played with DITA, Confluence and WebWorks ePublisher a while ago, 
> and I think I somehow managed to import a collection of files into 
> Confluence. Maybe this can help?
>
> http://ffeathers.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/epublisher-for-converting-documents-to-confluence-wiki/
>
> Cheers
>
> -- 
> Yves Barbion
> www.scripto.nu 
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith  > wrote:
>
> (...) And frankly, it doesn't make
> sense for us to spend that much engineering time
> to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care
> about Confluence at all...  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as shuttie27 at gmail.com.
>
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>
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

I've been looking into this, and it seems there's a problem due to a 
format change. It's important to know what version of Confluence you're 
dealing with.

It seems Confluence 3.x and earlier used Confluence Wiki Markup format  
for their pages. Beginning with 4.0, Atlassian  changed to the more 
expressive Confluence Storage Format. Unfortunately, for importing, they 
didn't add support for the new format. So:

- If you produce pages in Confluence Storage Format (the modified 
XHTML), you can't import them to Confluence.
- If you produce pages in Confluence Wiki Format and try to add them to 
Confluence 4.0 directly via API (as the sourceforge dita2wiki tool 
does), they will not be accepted because of the format change.

It should still be possible to produce pages in Confluence Wiki Format 
and upload them to Confluence 4.0  via the "Import pages from disk" 
feature.  For DITA users, this might involve unbundling a transform I 
assume is in the dita2wiki project, to support writing the output to 
local files instead of directly to Confluence.

I gather it's also possible to add Wiki Format pages via API and invoke 
Atlassian's own converter to change them to Confluence Storage Format, 
but no one in the sourceforge community has fully taken this on.

On 2012-11-21 10:32, Yves Barbion wrote:
> Hi Jeremy
>
> Make that *SIX *MIF2Go users; I care about Confluence too. ;-)
>
> I played with DITA, Confluence and WebWorks ePublisher a while ago, 
> and I think I somehow managed to import a collection of files into 
> Confluence. Maybe this can help?
>
> http://ffeathers.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/epublisher-for-converting-documents-to-confluence-wiki/
>
> Cheers
>
> -- 
> Yves Barbion
> www.scripto.nu 

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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Robert Lauriston

The manual page-by-page import I've done is too complicated to
automate. You'd want to use one of the APIs or the plugin SDK for bulk
import.

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Jeremy H. Griffith  wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:59:01 -0500, Jim Owens
>  wrote:
>
>>- If you produce pages in Confluence Storage Format (the modified
>>XHTML), you can't import them to Confluence.
>
> From what Robert said at the start of this thread,
> he *could* import the new format one page at a time.
> The problem was bulk import.
>
> Has anyone tried the workaround of a KB macro to
> do the import, called in a loop?  ;-)  There are a
> lot of free KB macro utilities olut there.

Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Jeremy H. Griffith

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:59:01 -0500, Jim Owens 
 wrote:

>- If you produce pages in Confluence Storage Format (the modified 
>XHTML), you can't import them to Confluence.

>From what Robert said at the start of this thread,
he *could* import the new format one page at a time.
The problem was bulk import.

Has anyone tried the workaround of a KB macro to
do the import, called in a loop?  ;-)  There are a
lot of free KB macro utilities olut there.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Robert Lauriston

Confluence 4's Import from Disk feature uses the undocumented XML
format created by the Export to XML feature.

I experimented with using Webworks ePublisher Designer to convert from
FrameMaker to Confluence 4. It looks fine, but when you edit a page
the code is an uneditable mess of macros and whatnot due to Webworks
using Confluence 3.x wiki markup rather than Confluence 4 XHTML. It
would be fine for read-only publishing.

Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

I've been looking into this, and it seems there's a problem due to a
format change. It's important to know what version of Confluence you're
dealing with.

It seems Confluence 3.x and earlier used Confluence Wiki Markup format
for their pages. Beginning with 4.0, Atlassian changed to the more
expressive Confluence Storage Format. Unfortunately, for importing, they
didn't add support for the new format. So:

- If you produce pages in Confluence Storage Format (the modified
XHTML), you can't import them to Confluence.
- If you produce pages in Confluence Wiki Format and try to add them to
Confluence 4.0 directly via API (as the sourceforge dita2wiki tool
does), they will not be accepted because of the format change.

It should still be possible to produce pages in Confluence Wiki Format
and upload them to Confluence 4.0 via the "Import pages from disk"
feature. For DITA users, this might involve unbundling a transform I
assume is in the dita2wiki project, to support writing the output to
local files instead of directly to Confluence.

I gather it's also possible to add Wiki Format pages via API and invoke
Atlassian's own converter to change them to Confluence Storage Format,
but no one in the sourceforge community has fully taken this on.

On 2012-11-21 10:32, Yves Barbion wrote:

Hi Jeremy

Make that *SIX *MIF2Go users; I care about Confluence too. ;-)

I played with DITA, Confluence and WebWorks ePublisher a while ago,
and I think I somehow managed to import a collection of files into
Confluence. Maybe this can help?

http://ffeathers.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/epublisher-for-converting-documents-to-confluence-wiki/

Cheers

--
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu

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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Yves Barbion

Hi Jeremy

Make that *SIX *MIF2Go users; I care about Confluence too. ;-)

I played with DITA, Confluence and WebWorks ePublisher a while ago, and I
think I somehow managed to import a collection of files into Confluence.
Maybe this can help?

http://ffeathers.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/epublisher-for-converting-documents-to-confluence-wiki/

Cheers

-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith wrote:

> (...) And frankly, it doesn't make
> sense for us to spend that much engineering time
> to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care
> about Confluence at all...  ;-)
>
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

We've just started using Confluence; we have documents in Frame and 
DITA; and we use Mif2Go and DITA2Go. So naturally I'm interested.

At the risk of going off topic: Confluence has an "Import from disk" 
feature. As far as I can tell, it accepts multiple files placed in a 
folder on the Confluence server.  (At the moment, I'm arranging for 
access to the server disk.) Are you saying this can't be used to bring 
in a set of Confluence-compatible XHTML pages?

Is there a better forum for discussing Confluence import?

On 2012-11-20 18:12, Robert Lauriston wrote:
> The APIs are supported. The command-line interface is a third-party project.
>
> I already have a FrameMaker template that maps to Confluence XHTML, so
> import would be clean.
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

We've just started using Confluence; we have documents in Frame and 
DITA; and we use Mif2Go and DITA2Go. So naturally I'm interested.


At the risk of going off topic: Confluence has an "Import from disk" 
feature. As far as I can tell, it accepts multiple files placed in a 
folder on the Confluence server.  (At the moment, I'm arranging for 
access to the server disk.) Are you saying this can't be used to bring 
in a set of Confluence-compatible XHTML pages?


Is there a better forum for discussing Confluence import?

On 2012-11-20 18:12, Robert Lauriston wrote:

The APIs are supported. The command-line interface is a third-party project.

I already have a FrameMaker template that maps to Confluence XHTML, so
import would be clean.
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

2012-11-21 Thread Robert Lauriston

The APIs are supported. The command-line interface is a third-party project.

I already have a FrameMaker template that maps to Confluence XHTML, so
import would be clean.
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:28:01 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
>tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
>command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
>import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
>unsupported?
>
>https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Sounds like a good Open Source project for a 
Confluence user/developer.  It doesn't make 
sense to add it to Mif2Go except as a separate
program anyway, like the other many free utilities
that come with it.  And frankly, it doesn't make
sense for us to spend that much engineering time 
to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care 
about Confluence at all...  ;-)

Of course, if they don't support their own CLI,
what are the odds the APIs work?  Not good, I'd 
say, which may be why nobody has done a batch
import utility yet.

>Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
>documented XHTML storage format.

Does Frame import any of them itself?  You'd lose
a lot, and have to completely redo the markup;
that's why we advise adding such content by hand
(copy/paste as PLAIN TEXT only) to the existing 
Frame files.  It saves a lot of time over a complete 
redo of formats, markers, and conditions.  You'd
think re-import would save time, but you'd be 
very wrong.  ;-)

Thanks again for helping us to get the XHTML format
right; that was also a lot of engineering, and it
would have been much more without your critical 
eye on the testing.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/

Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

The APIs are supported. The command-line interface is a third-party project.

I already have a FrameMaker template that maps to Confluence XHTML, so
import would be clean.

Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:28:01 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
>tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
>command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
>import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
>unsupported?
>
>https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Sounds like a good Open Source project for a 
Confluence user/developer.  It doesn't make 
sense to add it to Mif2Go except as a separate
program anyway, like the other many free utilities
that come with it.  And frankly, it doesn't make
sense for us to spend that much engineering time 
to benefit only the five Mif2Go users who care 
about Confluence at all...  ;-)

Of course, if they don't support their own CLI,
what are the odds the APIs work?  Not good, I'd 
say, which may be why nobody has done a batch
import utility yet.

>Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
>documented XHTML storage format.

Does Frame import any of them itself?  You'd lose
a lot, and have to completely redo the markup;
that's why we advise adding such content by hand
(copy/paste as PLAIN TEXT only) to the existing 
Frame files.  It saves a lot of time over a complete 
redo of formats, markers, and conditions.  You'd
think re-import would save time, but you'd be 
very wrong.  ;-)

Thanks again for helping us to get the XHTML format
right; that was also a lot of engineering, and it
would have been much more without your critical 
eye on the testing.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
unsupported?

https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
documented XHTML storage format.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Jeremy H. Griffith  wrote:
> Seriously, Confluence has no way to automate
> adding a set of pages, as in all .xhtml in one
> directory?  That's a bit beyond our ability
> (or anyone else's besides Atlassian) to create.
>
>>And there's no way to go the other direction,
>>which would actually be >the biggest selling point.
>
> Confluence has no native export?  ...
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Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:56:33 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>MIF2Go can generate Confluence 4 XHTML, but I still 
>haven't managed to import it into Confluence except 
>page by page.

That's a lot better than not at all...  ;-)

Seriously, Confluence has no way to automate
adding a set of pages, as in all .xhtml in one 
directory?  That's a bit beyond our ability 
(or anyone else's besides Atlassian) to create.

>And there's no way to go the other direction, 
>which would actually be >the biggest selling point.

Confluence has no native export?  Or do you mean
there is no export to Frame specifically?  At one
time, we were planning to add a module to output
to Frame; we even reserved the domain go2mif.com.
But then FM9 happened, our many large enterprise 
customers started going to DITA (and some of them
to DocBook) en masse, not using Frame as editor.
So we didn't want to waste time on a collapsing 
market... even though I started with Frame 2 on 
SunOS, back in the day...

And there is a fundamental problem with any
round-tripping where Frame is one end.  Where
exactly do you put the info Frame needs, but
other formats do not allow?  This is a FAQ
for Word; we have a section in the User's Guide
that discusses the issue in detail.  The same
is true for most other formats, with the possible
exceptions of Interleaf  and to a lesser degree
InDesign.  If a feature isn't available at one
end or the other, you lose it in the round trip.
No, hiding it in Word "hidden text" doesn't work,
because it won't stay with its context when any
edits are made... which defeats the whole idea.

For DITA and DocBook, you have Frame structured
mode to support you, long as you create an app
for it, a tricky consulting job.  And you have
DITA-FMx, from Leximation, that handles a lot
of issues Adobe can't seem to fix.  For other
formats, good luck...

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/

Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

Confluence has two or three APIs that could be used to write an import
tool, as well as the plugin SDK. There's also an unsupported
command-line interface, which in theory should be able to do a batch
import, but I couldn't get it to work, and did I mention it's
unsupported?

https://bobswift.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CSOAP/Confluence+Command+Line+Interface

Confluence 4 can export a space to several formats, but not to the
documented XHTML storage format.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Jeremy H. Griffith  wrote:
> Seriously, Confluence has no way to automate
> adding a set of pages, as in all .xhtml in one
> directory?  That's a bit beyond our ability
> (or anyone else's besides Atlassian) to create.
>
>>And there's no way to go the other direction,
>>which would actually be >the biggest selling point.
>
> Confluence has no native export?  ...

Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:56:33 -0800, Robert Lauriston 
 wrote:

>MIF2Go can generate Confluence 4 XHTML, but I still 
>haven't managed to import it into Confluence except 
>page by page.

That's a lot better than not at all...  ;-)

Seriously, Confluence has no way to automate
adding a set of pages, as in all .xhtml in one 
directory?  That's a bit beyond our ability 
(or anyone else's besides Atlassian) to create.

>And there's no way to go the other direction, 
>which would actually be >the biggest selling point.

Confluence has no native export?  Or do you mean
there is no export to Frame specifically?  At one
time, we were planning to add a module to output
to Frame; we even reserved the domain go2mif.com.
But then FM9 happened, our many large enterprise 
customers started going to DITA (and some of them
to DocBook) en masse, not using Frame as editor.
So we didn't want to waste time on a collapsing 
market... even though I started with Frame 2 on 
SunOS, back in the day...

And there is a fundamental problem with any
round-tripping where Frame is one end.  Where
exactly do you put the info Frame needs, but
other formats do not allow?  This is a FAQ
for Word; we have a section in the User's Guide
that discusses the issue in detail.  The same
is true for most other formats, with the possible
exceptions of Interleaf  and to a lesser degree
InDesign.  If a feature isn't available at one
end or the other, you lose it in the round trip.
No, hiding it in Word "hidden text" doesn't work,
because it won't stay with its context when any
edits are made... which defeats the whole idea.

For DITA and DocBook, you have Frame structured
mode to support you, long as you create an app
for it, a tricky consulting job.  And you have
DITA-FMx, from Leximation, that handles a lot
of issues Adobe can't seem to fix.  For other
formats, good luck...

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
___

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Re: Confluence 4 export: the one feature that would justify my upgrading from FM10