RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stephen O'Brien]

Hi,

I have noticed that if there is a text inset marker at the beginning of a 
paragraph (ex. A title) and it precedes a cross-reference marker, the 
cross-reference marker may become invalid (unseen, unconsidered). The trick is 
to copy the cross-reference marker to another position in the title. 

Have a good one! 

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
T (1) 418.688.2061


-Message d'origine-
De : framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] De la part de Alison Craig
Envoyé : Tuesday, October 01, 2013 6:26 PM
À : Scott Turner; Robert Lauriston
Cc : Framers
Objet : RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as broken even though it is valid.

 On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote:
 
 Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
 
 Are there any text insets involved?
 
 On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
 techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:
 Greetings!
 
 
 
 I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
 xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
 well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
 with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
 of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
 generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stephen O'Brien]

Hi,

I have noticed that if there is a text inset marker at the beginning of a 
paragraph (ex. A title) and it precedes a cross-reference marker, the 
cross-reference marker may become invalid (unseen, unconsidered). The trick is 
to copy the cross-reference marker to another position in the title. 

Have a good one! 

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur ? la documentation et r?dacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
T (1) 418.688.2061


-Message d'origine-
De?: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] De la part de Alison Craig
Envoy??: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 6:26 PM
??: Scott Turner; Robert Lauriston
Cc?: Framers
Objet?: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
>> xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
>> well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
>> with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
>> of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
>> generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
> 
> 
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RE: QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[Harro de Jong]

VLM TechSubs wrote:

 
 Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting
 character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no
 longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I
 don’t wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a 
 thin
 space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a
 nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
 that
 will not have any adverse effect?


This shouldn't be necessary. Frame will not trip over an empty paragraph. And 
when you refer to an empty paragraph, a marker will be placed in the paragraph 
and it won't be empty anymore. 
You're better off switching on View-Text Symbols so you can see where the 
empty paragraphs (and markers) are. 

But why refer to empty headings in the first place? I assume you don't know yet 
what the title will be, but if that's the case, how can you refer to something 
if you haven't decided what you will be referring to? 


Harro de Jong
Triview
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QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[Harro de Jong]

VLM TechSubs wrote:

> 
> Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting
> character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no
> longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I
> don?t wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a 
> thin
> space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a
> nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
> that
> will not have any adverse effect?


This shouldn't be necessary. Frame will not trip over an empty paragraph. And 
when you refer to an empty paragraph, a marker will be placed in the paragraph 
and it won't be empty anymore. 
You're better off switching on View->Text Symbols so you can see where the 
empty paragraphs (and markers) are. 

But why refer to empty headings in the first place? I assume you don't know yet 
what the title will be, but if that's the case, how can you refer to something 
if you haven't decided what you will be referring to? 


Harro de Jong
Triview

Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 

Scott T.

 On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, VLM TechSubs 
 techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:
 
 Greetings!
  
 I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
 other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After 
 working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening 
 generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix 
 them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large 
 number of broken xrefs again.
  
 Has anyone else encountered something like this?
  
 Thanks,
 Elchanan
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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Elchanan,

If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause
unresolved cross-references.
Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed
and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing
fonts).

Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?

Best regards

Winfried

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. 
I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine that would cause the problem 
... would it?

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Greetings!

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again.

Has anyone else encountered something like this?

Thanks,
Elchanan



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QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Scott. I haven’t moved any files, and this was mass breakage of the 
links all at once. 

Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting 
character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no 
longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I don’t 
wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a thin 
space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a 
nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
that will not have any adverse effect?

Thanks to all,
Elchanan

 

From: Scott Turner [mailto:qui...@airmail.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:12 AM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 

 

Scott T.


On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, VLM TechSubs 
techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening,
and I haven't taken time yet to fix that. And . as time goes by, I 
think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with
linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting 
characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that
those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Hi Elchanan,

 

If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause

unresolved cross-references.

Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed

and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing

fonts).

 

Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?

 

Best regards

 

Winfried

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?

 

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

 

  _  


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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stuart Rogers]

On 2013-Oct-01 12:09 PM, VLM TechSubs wrote:

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files
open, because some have that font error message upon opening, and I
haven’t taken time yet to fix that. And … as time goes by, I
think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with linking to
empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting
characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that those paras are
not really empty.




Elchanan,

I really doubt that putting non-printing characters (or printing 
characters, for that matter) into your empty paragraphs will solve the 
problem.  If the paragraph exists at all, then FM has assigned it a 
unique number and will use that number internally to create links.  If 
the target has a cross-ref marker in it, then the pgf is also no longer 
empty but contains the marker with its own unique number for linking. 
You can see that for yourself if you open a .mif version of your files. 
Your empty paragraphs will take up several lines with content of this 
sort (from an empty pgf containing only a xref marker):


Para
  Unique 998909
  PgfTag `special'
  PgfReferenced Yes
  ParaLine
   Marker
MType 9
MTypeName `Cross-Ref'
MText `special pgf marker'
MCurrPage `1'
Unique 998920
# end of Marker
   # end of ParaLine
  # end of Para

There is some other cause for your broken links. Are you saving all open 
files after making corrections, before regenerating files?


Have you tried generating a list of unresolved cross-references when the 
problem occurs? There may be clues in such a list.


http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/8.0/index.html (search on 
Resolving cross-references)


Best regards,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com
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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Fred Ridder]

I'll only comment briefly about the use of empty paragraphs, which is to say 
that they are seldom an optimum solution to issues or document model 
shortcomings in FrameMaker. I cannot imagine a situation where it makes any 
real sense to be linking to an empty heading paragraph. What is it that you 
are attempting to accomplish with empty headings?

But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to 
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference, 
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a 
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell 
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph 
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located within 
that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically creates one 
for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine what is displayed 
at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the autonumber and/or the 
text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself is concerned, the only 
thing that matters is the location of marker with the matching ID. 

You can edit the text in the referenced paragraph to your heart's content--even 
deleting all of the text--and the link will remain intact and functional as 
long as the marker is still there. If you move the marker to a different 
paragraph, that's where the link will now point. But if you accidentally delete 
the marker (or conditionalize it and set that condition to hide), the 
cross-reference will be broken and the referring document will report it as 
unresolved.  

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: wr...@tycoint.com; Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 09:09:48 -0700

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven’t taken 
time yet to fix that. And … as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly that 
this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my 
request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into 
thinking that those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Hi Elchanan, If 
FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may causeunresolved 
cross-references.Could it be that you have a file in the book which is 
closedand which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missingfonts). Does 
it make a difference, if you open all files of the book? Best regards Winfried 
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Perhaps I should 
add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. The process 
called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change 
the index suffix, but I can’t imagine that would cause the problem … would it? 
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Greetings! I put xref 
markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to other chapters, 
nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working for a while, I 
do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that were fine), and 
all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is 
well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.  Has 
anyone else encountered something like this?  Thanks,Elchanan 
This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of 
this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or 
take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have 
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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Robert Lauriston]

How about using printing characters, such as an en or em dash, on both
sides? Start the autonumber format with a dash, and use a dash for the
content?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:09 AM, VLM TechSubs
techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:
 Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open,
 because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven’t taken
 time yet to fix that. And … as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly
 that this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo,
 my request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into
 thinking that those paras are not really empty.
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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Craig Ede]

Maybe what is happening is that you are closing the file without saving once
the markers have  been inserted.

 

Craig

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder




But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference,
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located
within that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically
creates one for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine
what is displayed at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the
autonumber and/or the text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself
is concerned, the only thing that matters is the location of marker with the
matching ID. 



 

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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as broken even though it is valid.

 On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote:
 
 Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
 
 Are there any text insets involved?
 
 On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs
 techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:
 Greetings!
 
 
 
 I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to
 other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After
 working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening
 generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix
 them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large
 number of broken xrefs again.
 ___
 
 
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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Alison Craig]

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as broken even though it is valid.

 On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote:
 
 Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
 
 Are there any text insets involved?
 
 On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
 techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org wrote:
 Greetings!
 
 
 
 I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
 xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
 well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
 with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
 of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
 generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
 ___
 
 
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 Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
 
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QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Scott. I haven?t moved any files, and this was mass breakage of the 
links all at once. 

Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting 
character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no 
longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I don?t 
wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a thin 
space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a 
nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
that will not have any adverse effect?

Thanks to all,
Elchanan



From: Scott Turner [mailto:qui...@airmail.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:12 AM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 



Scott T.


On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, "VLM TechSubs"  wrote:

Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Elchanan,

If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause
unresolved cross-references.
Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed
and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing
fonts).

Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?

Best regards

Winfried

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. 
I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine that would cause the problem 
... would it?

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Greetings!

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again.

Has anyone else encountered something like this?

Thanks,
Elchanan



This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of 
this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or 
take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have 
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening,
and I haven't taken time yet to fix that. And . as time goes by, I 
think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with
linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting 
characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that
those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Hi Elchanan,



If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause

unresolved cross-references.

Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed

and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing

fonts).



Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?



Best regards



Winfried



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?



From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan



  _  


This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the
intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not 
disseminate, copy or take any action in respect of any
information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender immediately by e-mail and
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stuart Rogers]

On 2013-Oct-01 12:09 PM, VLM TechSubs wrote:
> Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files
> open, because some have that font error message upon opening, and I
> haven?t taken time yet to fix that. And ? as time goes by, I
> think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with linking to
> empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting
> characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that those paras are
> not really empty.
>


Elchanan,

I really doubt that putting non-printing characters (or printing 
characters, for that matter) into your "empty" paragraphs will solve the 
problem.  If the paragraph exists at all, then FM has assigned it a 
unique number and will use that number internally to create links.  If 
the target has a cross-ref marker in it, then the pgf is also no longer 
empty but contains the marker with its own unique number for linking. 
You can see that for yourself if you open a .mif version of your files. 
Your "empty" paragraphs will take up several lines with content of this 
sort (from an "empty" pgf containing only a xref marker):


   
   
   
 
 
 
 
> # end of Marker
   > # end of ParaLine
  > # end of Para

There is some other cause for your broken links. Are you saving all open 
files after making corrections, before regenerating files?

Have you tried generating a list of unresolved cross-references when the 
problem occurs? There may be clues in such a list.

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/8.0/index.html (search on 
Resolving cross-references)

Best regards,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com

FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Fred Ridder]

I'll only comment briefly about the use of "empty" paragraphs, which is to say 
that they are seldom an optimum solution to issues or document model 
shortcomings in FrameMaker. I cannot imagine a situation where it makes any 
real sense to be linking to an "empty" heading paragraph. What is it that you 
are attempting to accomplish with empty headings?

But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to 
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference, 
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a 
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell 
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph 
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located within 
that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically creates one 
for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine what is displayed 
at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the autonumber and/or the 
text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself is concerned, the only 
thing that matters is the location of marker with the matching ID. 

You can edit the text in the referenced paragraph to your heart's content--even 
deleting all of the text--and the link will remain intact and functional as 
long as the marker is still there. If you move the marker to a different 
paragraph, that's where the link will now point. But if you accidentally delete 
the marker (or conditionalize it and set that condition to hide), the 
cross-reference will be broken and the referring document will report it as 
unresolved.  

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: wreng at tycoint.com; Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 09:09:48 -0700

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven?t taken 
time yet to fix that. And ? as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly that 
this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my 
request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into 
thinking that those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces 
at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Hi Elchanan, If 
FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may causeunresolved 
cross-references.Could it be that you have a file in the book which is 
closedand which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missingfonts). Does 
it make a difference, if you open all files of the book? Best regards Winfried 
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Perhaps I should 
add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. The process 
called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change 
the index suffix, but I can?t imagine that would cause the problem ? would it? 
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Greetings! I put xref 
markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to other chapters, 
nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working for a while, I 
do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that were fine), and 
all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is 
well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.  Has 
anyone else encountered something like this?  Thanks,Elchanan 
This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of 
this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or 
take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have 
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Robert Lauriston]

How about using printing characters, such as an en or em dash, on both
sides? Start the autonumber format with a dash, and use a dash for the
content?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:09 AM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open,
> because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven?t taken
> time yet to fix that. And ? as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly
> that this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo,
> my request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into
> thinking that those paras are not really empty.

FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Craig Ede]

Maybe what is happening is that you are closing the file without saving once
the markers have  been inserted.



Craig



From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder




But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference,
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located
within that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically
creates one for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine
what is displayed at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the
autonumber and/or the text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself
is concerned, the only thing that matters is the location of marker with the
matching ID. 





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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to
>> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After
>> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening
>> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix
>> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large
>> number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as quills at airmail.net.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
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> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Alison Craig]

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
>> xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
>> well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
>> with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
>> of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
>> generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
> 
> 
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 

Scott T.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, "VLM TechSubs"  VibrantLivingMinistries.org> wrote:
> 
> Greetings!
>  
> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After 
> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening 
> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix 
> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large 
> number of broken xrefs again.
>  
> Has anyone else encountered something like this?
>  
> Thanks,
> Elchanan
> ___
> 
> 
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?

 

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?



From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Robert Lauriston]

Which source type are you using when you create the markers?

Are there any text insets involved?

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Greetings!
>
>
>
> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to
> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After
> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening
> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix
> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large
> number of broken xrefs again.