RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Shuttleworth, Roger]

And another suggestion regarding getting markers into paragraphs of a 
particular format (assuming you don't use IXGen):
Do a Find using the specific paragraph format. When you do Find Next, the 
paragraph is selected. Then Esc,s,m will open the marker box with the text
already in it. But remember to click in the para before adding the marker, 
otherwise the marker replaces the selected text! 

Roger Shuttleworth
Technical Publications
TVWorks Canada, Inc.
150 Dufferin Avenue
London, Ontario
N6A 5N6
Canada
Tel. 519 963-4368
www.tvworks.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Rourke
Sent: January 23, 2008 4:19 PM
To: 'Stuart Rogers'
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

Absolutely great advice. I'm learning new tricks.

I have gone back to putting the <$paranum> in the LOF, which is sufficient.

Thanks again
Pete

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

Pete Rourke wrote:
> FM8 Windows XP
> 
>  
> 
> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the paragraph tag,
> Caption, but I have not figured out how to put this into the reference
page
> (like what the standard index does) to do the alphabetical sorting.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a special marker for figures?
> 
>  
> 
> I have 2 pages of 2 col generated List of figures (screenshots) and when
> indexed are sorted in the order of the pages in the book.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a way to have them appear alphabetically like the generated
regular
> index?
> 

Others have already replied with lots of good advice.  I'll just add 
that a work-around, if you want to sort the list you have, would be to 
convert it to a table, one cell per paragraph, and then sort the table. 
  It's a maintenance headache of course, nothing automated about it, but 
it would accomplish what you ask.

best,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

If it makes things work more easily, why isn't it called lubrican?

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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Pete Rourke]

Thanks Richard,

I started the LOF with the <$paranum> and then started looking for
alternatives that started this chain of communications. (Very
educational-BTW) 
I have gone back to where I started from with the numbered figures. I
actually do cross reference by them all through the book.

Thanks

Pete Rourke
Chandler, AZ

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Combs, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:39 PM
To: Frank Stearns
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

Frank Stearns wrote:  

> > (This entire process could be scripted, of course.)
> 
> Or, you could use IXgen to do this in just a few moments. You 
> can create markers from specific para tags, such as those 
> used for the captions; and you can create markers of whatever 
> type you wanted (including those you define yourself).

 D'oh! I must not have had enough caffein this
morning! 

I use IXgen for indexing and love it. I just completely spaced out that
you can automagically create markers (any kind) from/for all instances
of a pgf format. Sorry, Frank! 

Pete, IXgen will not only solve your problem quickly and easily, it'll
make many index-related tasks far, far easier, too. I highly recommend
it. 

Although if I were you, my first priority would be adding <$paranum> to
the LOF spec. I'm really surprised you aren't including the number
already. I don't think I've ever seen a list of numbered figures that
didn't include the number. You cross-reference them by number, don't
you? ("See Figure 3-2")

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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Re: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Pete:

If I understand your need correctly, you can do it this way:

If your source paragraphs look like this (I used autonumbered tables,
you can use figures):
Table 1:zzz
...content...
Table 2:ccc
...content...
Table 3:www
...content...
Table 4:aaa
...content...
Table 5:nnn

* Use Special > List Of > Figures (or Tables or Paragraphs) they all
extract the paragraph format you specify, in page order .

* Click Set to generate the file, and move the insertion pointer to it.
The result resembles this - no autonumber, page number order:
zzz 1
ccc 10
www 21
aaa 151
nnn 1200

To capture the autonumber ("Figure #, etc.)
* On the reference page of the generated file, type  "<$paranum> " -
without quotes, with trailing space, to the left of the line that
starts  with "<$paratext> <$pagenum>".
* View the generated file's body page again
* Return to the source file and regenerate the file
* The results will resemble (autonumber visible, autonumber order,
page number order:

Table 1: zzz 1
Table 2: ccc 10
Table 3: www 21
Table 4: aaa 151
Table 5: nnn 1200


To sort the list in order of the text that follows the autonumber (aaa...zzz):
* Select the generated text
* Use Table > Convert to Table to create a table with no header rows,
each paragraph a row with cells separated by  ": " (colon+space, no
quotes)
* In each row, select the first through the last cell of the caption
text, and choose Table > Straddle, to merge the caption text cells
into a single cell.
* Type a colon (":") into the empty cell after the table number in the
first row, then select and copy the cell (not just the colon)
* Select-drag down through all the empty cells in the column, and
paste, to fill all the empty cells with a colon.

The result will resemble:

Table | 1 |: | zzz  | 1
_|__|_||__
Table | 2 |: |ccc   |10
_|__|_||__
Table | 3 |: |www |21
_|__|_||__
Table | 4 |: | aaa |   151
_|__|_||__
Table | 5 |: |nnn   | 1200
_|__|_||__

* Click an insertion point in the table and choose Table > Sort
* Choose Ascending on Column 4 (the caption text)
* Click Set to sort the table


The result will resemble this:


Table | 4 |: | aaa | 151
_|__|_||__
Table | 2 |: |ccc  |   10
_|__|_||__
Table | 5 | :|nnn  |1200
_|__|_||__
Table | 3 |: |www|  211
_|__|_||__
Table | 1 |: |zzz  |  1
_|__|_||__

* Adjust the widths of the table columns
* Create table cell paragraph formats that align page numbers as you
prefer; perhaps merge the caption text cells and the page number cells
so you can create and use tab leaders as you prefer
* Create a table format that has no rulings, and apply it to the table.

The set-up work will take some effort, but, if you have lots of
entries, it may be less than creating index markers for each entry.
The virtue of markers is that you can regenerate the index whenever
there's a change that affects the page and figure-sequence numbers.
The table-sort method is best done after the document set is frozen,
although once it's set up, reapplying it to a newly-generated list.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Pete Rourke]

Thanks Roger,

I have learned the hard way about replacing text. It took me forever to make
my standard index clean up from such mistakes.

Thanks again

Pete

-Original Message-
From: Shuttleworth, Roger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stuart Rogers
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

And another suggestion regarding getting markers into paragraphs of a
particular format (assuming you don't use IXGen):
Do a Find using the specific paragraph format. When you do Find Next, the
paragraph is selected. Then Esc,s,m will open the marker box with the text
already in it. But remember to click in the para before adding the marker,
otherwise the marker replaces the selected text! 

Roger Shuttleworth
Technical Publications
TVWorks Canada, Inc.
150 Dufferin Avenue
London, Ontario
N6A 5N6
Canada
Tel. 519 963-4368
www.tvworks.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Rourke
Sent: January 23, 2008 4:19 PM
To: 'Stuart Rogers'
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

Absolutely great advice. I'm learning new tricks.

I have gone back to putting the <$paranum> in the LOF, which is sufficient.

Thanks again
Pete

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

Pete Rourke wrote:
> FM8 Windows XP
> 
>  
> 
> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the paragraph tag,
> Caption, but I have not figured out how to put this into the reference
page
> (like what the standard index does) to do the alphabetical sorting.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a special marker for figures?
> 
>  
> 
> I have 2 pages of 2 col generated List of figures (screenshots) and when
> indexed are sorted in the order of the pages in the book.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a way to have them appear alphabetically like the generated
regular
> index?
> 

Others have already replied with lots of good advice.  I'll just add 
that a work-around, if you want to sort the list you have, would be to 
convert it to a table, one cell per paragraph, and then sort the table. 
  It's a maintenance headache of course, nothing automated about it, but 
it would accomplish what you ask.

best,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

If it makes things work more easily, why isn't it called lubrican?

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orks.com

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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Pete Rourke]

Absolutely great advice. I'm learning new tricks.

I have gone back to putting the <$paranum> in the LOF, which is sufficient.

Thanks again
Pete

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

Pete Rourke wrote:
> FM8 Windows XP
> 
>  
> 
> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the paragraph tag,
> Caption, but I have not figured out how to put this into the reference
page
> (like what the standard index does) to do the alphabetical sorting.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a special marker for figures?
> 
>  
> 
> I have 2 pages of 2 col generated List of figures (screenshots) and when
> indexed are sorted in the order of the pages in the book.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a way to have them appear alphabetically like the generated
regular
> index?
> 

Others have already replied with lots of good advice.  I'll just add 
that a work-around, if you want to sort the list you have, would be to 
convert it to a table, one cell per paragraph, and then sort the table. 
  It's a maintenance headache of course, nothing automated about it, but 
it would accomplish what you ask.

best,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

If it makes things work more easily, why isn't it called lubrican?

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Re: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Stuart Rogers]

Pete Rourke wrote:
> FM8 Windows XP
> 
>  
> 
> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the paragraph tag,
> Caption, but I have not figured out how to put this into the reference page
> (like what the standard index does) to do the alphabetical sorting.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a special marker for figures?
> 
>  
> 
> I have 2 pages of 2 col generated List of figures (screenshots) and when
> indexed are sorted in the order of the pages in the book.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there a way to have them appear alphabetically like the generated regular
> index?
> 

Others have already replied with lots of good advice.  I'll just add 
that a work-around, if you want to sort the list you have, would be to 
convert it to a table, one cell per paragraph, and then sort the table. 
  It's a maintenance headache of course, nothing automated about it, but 
it would accomplish what you ask.

best,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

If it makes things work more easily, why isn't it called lubrican?
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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Combs, Richard]

Frank Stearns wrote:  

> > (This entire process could be scripted, of course.)
> 
> Or, you could use IXgen to do this in just a few moments. You 
> can create markers from specific para tags, such as those 
> used for the captions; and you can create markers of whatever 
> type you wanted (including those you define yourself).

 D'oh! I must not have had enough caffein this
morning! 

I use IXgen for indexing and love it. I just completely spaced out that
you can automagically create markers (any kind) from/for all instances
of a pgf format. Sorry, Frank! 

Pete, IXgen will not only solve your problem quickly and easily, it'll
make many index-related tasks far, far easier, too. I highly recommend
it. 

Although if I were you, my first priority would be adding <$paranum> to
the LOF spec. I'm really surprised you aren't including the number
already. I don't think I've ever seen a list of numbered figures that
didn't include the number. You cross-reference them by number, don't
you? ("See Figure 3-2")

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Pete Rourke]

Thanks Richard,

This is great information, I think the task would be daunting to create my
own index of figures, and I'm not certain of the value. 
The probable resolution to my issue is to include the "Figure 1-12" in the
LOF as opposed to just the text of the caption. This would help the reader
orient the figures to the chapters which would probably be more than
sufficient.

In a future project, I will incorporate your suggestion in index of markers.
Great stuff!

Thanks again

Pete Rourke
Chandler, AZ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Combs, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:12 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

Pete Rourke wrote: 
 
> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the 
> paragraph tag, Caption, but I have not figured out how to put 
> this into the reference page (like what the standard index 
> does) to do the alphabetical sorting.

If you want alphabetical, you need an index. Unfortunately for you,
there is no built-in index of figures or tables (if there were, it would
probably alphabetize on the autonumber that's usually used for
figures/tables -- "Figure 1 ...," "Figure 2 ..."?). 

You can make your own index of figures, but it's a bit of work. In each
Caption pgf, you need to insert a marker. Either define a custom Marker
Type for the purpose -- say, "Figure" -- or use one of the built-in
types that you don't currently use -- say, "Subject" or "Comment." The
Marker Text for each marker should be what you want in the index. If
it's the complete text of the Caption pgf, just select it all and FM
puts it in the Marker Text box of the Marker dialog. (This entire
process could be scripted, of course.)

Once all the markers exist, at the book window, select Add > Index of >
Markers. In the Set Up dialog, move the marker type you used to the
Include list and click Add. Voila!

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Pete Rourke]

Thanks Fred,

 

I missed the paragraph in the book about order of occurrence. J

 

Knowing this, I will tighten up the style rules of my captions.

 

Thanks

 

Pete

 

From: Fred Ridder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

 

Lists (of Contents, Tables, Figures, Paragraphs, whatever...)
are always sorted in order of occurence.  No way I'm aware of 
to change that.
 
Indexes are sorted alphabetically.
 
So if you need an alphabetical list of figure captions, you need 
to insert markers in the captions so that you can build an index
of that marker type. Frame has lots of user-defined marker types
available, so that shouldn't present a problem.
 
But I have to say that I'm not sure I really see the value of an
alphabetical list of captions unless you have some *very* 
well-defined style rules for writing the captions.  
 
-Fred Ridder

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables
> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:42:09 -0700
> 
> FM8 Windows XP
> 
> 
> 
> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the paragraph tag,
> Caption, but I have not figured out how to put this into the reference
page
> (like what the standard index does) to do the alphabetical sorting.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a special marker for figures?
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 pages of 2 col generated List of figures (screenshots) and when
> indexed are sorted in the order of the pages in the book.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a way to have them appear alphabetically like the generated
regular
> index?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or visit
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> 
> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.



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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Frank Stearns]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Combs, Richard wrote:

> Pete Rourke wrote:
>
>> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the
>> paragraph tag, Caption, but I have not figured out how to put
>> this into the reference page (like what the standard index
>> does) to do the alphabetical sorting.

snips

> You can make your own index of figures, but it's a bit of work. In each
> Caption pgf, you need to insert a marker. Either define a custom Marker
> Type for the purpose -- say, "Figure" -- or use one of the built-in
> types that you don't currently use -- say, "Subject" or "Comment." The
> Marker Text for each marker should be what you want in the index. If
> it's the complete text of the Caption pgf, just select it all and FM
> puts it in the Marker Text box of the Marker dialog. (This entire
> process could be scripted, of course.)

Or, you could use IXgen to do this in just a few moments. You can 
create markers from specific para tags, such as those used for the 
captions; and you can create markers of whatever type you wanted 
(including those you define yourself).

This would make later collection and modification very simple and 
fast.

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 360-892-3970  USA FAX: 360-253-1498
http://www.fsatools.com
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RE: Alphabetizing a generated list of Figures or Tables

[Combs, Richard]

Pete Rourke wrote: 
 
> I started from the book add>List of > Figures using the 
> paragraph tag, Caption, but I have not figured out how to put 
> this into the reference page (like what the standard index 
> does) to do the alphabetical sorting.

If you want alphabetical, you need an index. Unfortunately for you,
there is no built-in index of figures or tables (if there were, it would
probably alphabetize on the autonumber that's usually used for
figures/tables -- "Figure 1 ...," "Figure 2 ..."?). 

You can make your own index of figures, but it's a bit of work. In each
Caption pgf, you need to insert a marker. Either define a custom Marker
Type for the purpose -- say, "Figure" -- or use one of the built-in
types that you don't currently use -- say, "Subject" or "Comment." The
Marker Text for each marker should be what you want in the index. If
it's the complete text of the Caption pgf, just select it all and FM
puts it in the Marker Text box of the Marker dialog. (This entire
process could be scripted, of course.)

Once all the markers exist, at the book window, select Add > Index of >
Markers. In the Set Up dialog, move the marker type you used to the
Include list and click Add. Voila!

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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