Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-26 Thread Bill Briggs
At 11:47 AM -0700 4/26/06, Daniel Emory wrote:
>--- "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>> Good post, Dan. However, I'm trying to visualize
>your
>> statement, "...clicking on this button produced a
>> menu of links to major subject areas..." The
>> button part I understand, the menu of links I'm
>> struggling with. A popup menu? If so, could you tell
>> me how you achieve the menu of links functionality?
>
>You asked how a popup menu is created in FrameMaker.
>Here’s the procedure:

 Popups in FrameMaker are a treat. I made a little book for myself once (it had 
all sorts of stuff in it related to work, an address book, and a ton of other 
stuff) and I used it in printed form daily, but it had popups and hyperlink 
buttons for navigation in the software version. It was a great way to get 
around the book. I've used them in a few other places too, sometimes with an 
"invisible" button, so there was nothing in the printed version. Always loved 
that feature.

 - web
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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-26 Thread Bill Briggs
At 1:00 PM -0700 4/26/06, FIONA HANINGTON wrote:
>I would *love* to see a sample of this in action - does anyone have one that 
>they would be willing to share with me?

I'm sending you a current work in progress that uses this feature.

 - web
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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-26 Thread Rick Quatro

Hi Bill,

I agree wholeheartedly, but it's a shame that only FrameMaker users can 
benefit. As Dan said, it would be nice if all of FrameMaker's hypertext 
goodies would convert to PDF.


Rick

Popups in FrameMaker are a treat. I made a little book for myself once (it 
had all sorts of stuff in it related to work, an address book, and a ton 
of other stuff) and I used it in printed form daily, but it had popups and 
hyperlink buttons for navigation in the software version. It was a great 
way to get around the book. I've used them in a few other places too, 
sometimes with an "invisible" button, so there was nothing in the printed 
version. Always loved that feature.


- web


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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-26 Thread Bill Briggs
Yeah, it would be a really great thing to have all of FrameMaker's hypertext 
capabilities survive to PDF. But we'll see a plethora of tiny little 
Photoshop-style pallets before we'll see something useful like what Dan was 
talking about. Makes you wonder what drives the decision mechanism (if there is 
one) regarding software improvements. Once FrameMaker is reduced to a single 
platform, down from the glory days when it was on many. Two great quotes from 
the Wikipedia entry for FrameMaker.

"At the height of its success, FrameMaker ran on more than thirteen UNIX 
platforms, including NeXT Computer's NeXTSTEP and IBM's AIX operating systems."

"Frame Technology later ported FrameMaker to Microsoft Windows, but the company 
lost direction soon after its release."

- web


At 4:31 PM -0400 4/26/06, Rick Quatro wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>I agree wholeheartedly, but it's a shame that only FrameMaker users can 
>benefit. As Dan said, it would be nice if all of FrameMaker's hypertext 
>goodies would convert to PDF.
>
>Rick
>
>>Popups in FrameMaker are a treat. I made a little book for myself once (it 
>>had all sorts of stuff in it related to work, an address book, and a ton of 
>>other stuff) and I used it in printed form daily, but it had popups and 
>>hyperlink buttons for navigation in the software version. It was a great way 
>>to get around the book. I've used them in a few other places too, sometimes 
>>with an "invisible" button, so there was nothing in the printed version. 
>>Always loved that feature.
>>
>>- web

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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-26 Thread Peter Gold

Hi, Bill, Dan, and all:

At 8:46 PM -0300 4/26/06, Bill Briggs wrote:
Yeah, it would be a really great thing to have all of FrameMaker's 
hypertext capabilities survive to PDF. But we'll see a plethora of 
tiny little Photoshop-style pallets before we'll see something 
useful like what Dan was talking about. Makes you wonder what drives 
the decision mechanism (if there is one) regarding software 
improvements. Once FrameMaker is reduced to a single platform, down 
from the glory days when it was on many. Two great quotes from the 
Wikipedia entry for FrameMaker.


"At the height of its success, FrameMaker ran on more than thirteen 
UNIX platforms, including NeXT Computer's NeXTSTEP and IBM's AIX 
operating systems."


"Frame Technology later ported FrameMaker to Microsoft Windows, but 
the company lost direction soon after its release."


I'm not sure if you'd find it by digging in Wikipedia, but to put 
your point in context, it helps to know that in the early days of 
unix and FrameMaker, as with the early days of CP/M, each hardware 
manufacturer had a proprietary version of the OS, which required 
software to be written, converted, adapted, or "ported" to run on it. 
To sell these adamantly-independent hardware platforms, their 
manufacturers like Pyramid, Sequent, CGI, NeXT, and others PAID BIG 
BUCKS to companies like Frame Technology, Sybase, and others whose 
software they wanted to offer to attract customers. NeXT even bundled 
FrameMaker 3.x with its machines.


In its early years, Sun required its resellers to sell a certain 
amount of software and support with each workstation, to avoid having 
resellers compete solely on bottom-dollar hardware prices and leave 
customers with no software and no support. FrameMaker on Solaris was 
a common component in those packages; both companies benefited.


Actually, FrameMaker was ported to Macintosh before Windows, because 
Windows at the time was too wimpy to support it.


While it's easy to point to what FrameMaker still hasn't incorporated 
from the long-standing user wish list, it's pretty remarkable to look 
back all the way to the FrameMaker 2.x era and see how much of the 
product's current productive feature set was built into it so early 
on.


It's quite correct to say that the code base evolved to a point 
that's nearly impossible to maintain, as features have been added and 
refined. This is what's holding back the ability to evolve on any of 
the remaining supported platforms, or those that have been dropped.


While many of us are quite inconvenienced by not having Mac OS X 
FrameMaker, how many users do we hear from who miss FrameMaker on 
Pyramid, Sequent, or NeXT? What's interesting about unix, is that 
it's easy to run FrameMaker on one Solaris machine and serve it to 
whole enterprises of users who connect to it from other unix 
platforms. It's not emulation, dual-boot, or virtual-machine - it's 
just unix.


As far as lack of support for converting the FrameMaker's advanced 
hypertext features - pop-up menus, button matrixes, etc. to other 
distribution formats - mif2go and WebWorks Publisher Professional 
accomplish these behaviors in HTML with somewhat less complex 
preparation in FrameMaker than FrameMaker's own steps require. I 
believe that some of these can also be accomplished in PDF with some 
of Shlomo Perets' tools.


It's half full, IMO. But, like most FrameMaker users, I expect at 
least three-quarters full. Hoping for more...



Regards,

Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Bill Briggs
At 9:18 PM -0500 4/26/06, Peter Gold wrote:
>Hi, Bill, Dan, and all:
>
>At 8:46 PM -0300 4/26/06, Bill Briggs wrote:
>>Yeah, it would be a really great thing to have all of FrameMaker's hypertext 
>>capabilities survive to PDF. But we'll see a plethora of tiny little 
>>Photoshop-style pallets before we'll see something useful like what Dan was 
>>talking about. Makes you wonder what drives the decision mechanism (if there 
>>is one) regarding software improvements. Once FrameMaker is reduced to a 
>>single platform, down from the glory days when it was on many. Two great 
>>quotes from the Wikipedia entry for FrameMaker.
>>
>>"At the height of its success, FrameMaker ran on more than thirteen UNIX 
>>platforms, including NeXT Computer's NeXTSTEP and IBM's AIX operating 
>>systems."
>>
>>"Frame Technology later ported FrameMaker to Microsoft Windows, but the 
>>company lost direction soon after its release."
>
>I'm not sure if you'd find it by digging in Wikipedia, but to put your point 
>in context, it helps to know that in the early days of unix and FrameMaker, as 
>with the early days of CP/M, each hardware manufacturer had a proprietary 
>version of the OS, which required software to be written, converted, adapted, 
>or "ported" to run on it. To sell these adamantly-independent hardware 
>platforms, their manufacturers like Pyramid, Sequent, CGI, NeXT, and others 
>PAID BIG BUCKS to companies like Frame Technology, Sybase, and others whose 
>software they wanted to offer to attract customers. NeXT even bundled 
>FrameMaker 3.x with its machines.

 Yes, they mention the lower pricing of the Windows version and how it was an 
issue in the Wiki. And they mention the investment of platform manufacturers. I 
just thought it was interesting that once Frame Technology got mixed up with 
the Windows world, that's when it all fell apart. Flirt with the Borg and you 
take the consequences...


>In its early years, Sun required its resellers to sell a certain amount of 
>software and support with each workstation, to avoid having resellers compete 
>solely on bottom-dollar hardware prices and leave customers with no software 
>and no support. FrameMaker on Solaris was a common component in those 
>packages; both companies benefited.
>
>Actually, FrameMaker was ported to Macintosh before Windows, because Windows 
>at the time was too wimpy to support it.

 I know. I have a copy of FrameMaker 2.1 for the Mac here somewhere. But I 
didn't use it a LOT until version 3, which I'd still use ahead of Word, if that 
were the choice.

 - web
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RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Bill Briggs
At 7:14 AM -0400 4/27/06, Batsford, Steve wrote:
>Rick,
>
>My sentiment exactly.
>The popups and all of the available links SOUND cool. But in the real
>world all my content to my end users is in PDF.

 There used to be a product called FrameViewer, and you could view other 
people's FrameMaker documents with it. In FV all of the popups worked. Of 
course FV died after Adobe took over the product.

- web
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RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Peter Gold

Hi, Bill:

At 8:23 AM -0300 4/27/06, Bill Briggs wrote:

At 7:14 AM -0400 4/27/06, Batsford, Steve wrote:

Rick,

My sentiment exactly.
The popups and all of the available links SOUND cool. But in the real
world all my content to my end users is in PDF.


 There used to be a product called FrameViewer, and you could view 
other people's FrameMaker documents with it. In FV all of the popups 
worked. Of course FV died after Adobe took over the product.


FrameViewer was FrameMaker, just crippled to prevent authoring. It 
was expensive to purchase for just a product that reads and prints 
FrameMaker files, and it was also expensive in the amount of storage 
space and machine resources it required in those days.


Adobe's not the villain here, IMO. Acrobat's PDF is more versatile 
for distributing files for reading, commenting, printing, 
information-collecting, and publishing for more applications beyond 
FrameMaker.


You might say that Windows is a more likely villain, because on unix, 
FrameMaker's "floating" licensing approach minimized the need to 
purchase one license per user. Floating licenses could be checked 
out, used, and checked in, to release them for other users. If 20 
simultaneous users are likely to need FrameMaker at any one time, a 
customer needs to purchase only 20 floating licenses to serve an 
enterprise of thousands of potential users.


There are some similar third-party application-sharing tools that 
work on Windows across applications; they incur other overhead 
penalties and impose their own maintenance requirements.




Regards,

Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Rick Quatro
If I remember correctly, there was a smaller footprint program called 
FrameReader that could be used to view FrameMaker documents. I think it was 
less expensive than FrameViewer.


Rick

FrameViewer was FrameMaker, just crippled to prevent authoring. It was 
expensive to purchase for just a product that reads and prints FrameMaker 
files, and it was also expensive in the amount of storage space and 
machine resources it required in those days.


Adobe's not the villain here, IMO. Acrobat's PDF is more versatile for 
distributing files for reading, commenting, printing, 
information-collecting, and publishing for more applications beyond 
FrameMaker.


You might say that Windows is a more likely villain, because on unix, 
FrameMaker's "floating" licensing approach minimized the need to purchase 
one license per user. Floating licenses could be checked out, used, and 
checked in, to release them for other users. If 20 simultaneous users are 
likely to need FrameMaker at any one time, a customer needs to purchase 
only 20 floating licenses to serve an enterprise of thousands of potential 
users.


There are some similar third-party application-sharing tools that work on 
Windows across applications; they incur other overhead penalties and 
impose their own maintenance requirements.




Regards,

Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices


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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Paul Findon

On 27 Apr 2006, at 03:18, Peter Gold wrote:


I'm not sure if you'd find it by digging in Wikipedia, but to put your 
point in context, it helps to know that in the early days of unix and 
FrameMaker, as with the early days of CP/M, each hardware manufacturer 
had a proprietary version of the OS, which required software to be 
written, converted, adapted, or "ported" to run on it. To sell these 
adamantly-independent hardware platforms, their manufacturers like 
Pyramid, Sequent, CGI, NeXT, and others PAID BIG BUCKS to companies 
like Frame Technology, Sybase, and others whose software they wanted 
to offer to attract customers. NeXT even bundled FrameMaker 3.x with 
its machines.


I don't remember FrameMaker being bundled with NeXT boxes. Was it a 
trial version? We bought all of our licenses (could have been a site 
license). Should I call tech support?


I remember the word processor Write Now was bundled.

FWIW, Paul

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RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Bill Briggs
At 6:42 AM -0500 4/27/06, Peter Gold wrote:
>Hi, Bill:
>
>At 8:23 AM -0300 4/27/06, Bill Briggs wrote:
>>At 7:14 AM -0400 4/27/06, Batsford, Steve wrote:
>>>Rick,
>>>
>>>My sentiment exactly.
>>>The popups and all of the available links SOUND cool. But in the real
>>>world all my content to my end users is in PDF.
>>
>> There used to be a product called FrameViewer, and you could view other 
>> people's FrameMaker documents with it. In FV all of the popups worked. Of 
>> course FV died after Adobe took over the product.
>
>FrameViewer was FrameMaker, just crippled to prevent authoring. It was 
>expensive to purchase for just a product that reads and prints FrameMaker 
>files, and it was also expensive in the amount of storage space and machine 
>resources it required in those days.

 I know. And as someone already mentioned, there was FrameReader, v5.1 of which 
is still available for download at the Adobe web site.  I forget right off the 
top of my head what the difference was between Reader and Viewer.


>Adobe's not the villain here, IMO. Acrobat's PDF is more versatile for 
>distributing files for reading, commenting, printing, information-collecting, 
>and publishing for more applications beyond FrameMaker.

 Nobody is disputing that. But if the company that owns both is using its head, 
it would roll those really nice features of FrameMaker that we've been lauding 
into PDF functionality.


>You might say that Windows is a more likely villain, because on unix, 
>FrameMaker's "floating" licensing approach minimized the need to purchase one 
>license per user. Floating licenses could be checked out, used, and checked 
>in, to release them for other users. If 20 simultaneous users are likely to 
>need FrameMaker at any one time, a customer needs to purchase only 20 floating 
>licenses to serve an enterprise of thousands of potential users.

 It's even better than that. We bought FrameMaker for our department, and 
including techs and clerical staff we number 30 people. We got FrameMaker 
licenses for Solaris, Windows, and Mac. We were sold 10 concurrent licenses, 
even though only the UNIX version can use a license server. It was done on the 
"honour system". So the mechanism exists to "not buy a licence for every 
computer" if your usage habits are such that it's not warranted. We also paid 
in advance for the upgrade, and given that no Mac upgrade ever surfaced, I 
think we were treated unethically by Adobe. Even the Windows upgrade from 7 to 
7.1 was not worth it.

- web
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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Peter Gold

At 8:17 AM -0400 4/27/06, Rick Quatro wrote:
If I remember correctly, there was a smaller footprint program 
called FrameReader that could be used to view FrameMaker documents. 
I think it was less expensive than FrameViewer.


I think it was FV with even more FrameMaker stuff removed. As Acrobat 
improved, FR was even less attractive.



Regards,

Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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Re: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker

2006-04-27 Thread Peter Gold

 NeXT even bundled FrameMaker 3.x with its machines.


I don't remember FrameMaker being bundled with NeXT boxes. Was it a 
trial version? We bought all of our licenses (could have been a site 
license). Should I call tech support?


I remember the word processor Write Now was bundled.


It was FrameMaker 3.1.

Yes, call tech support. If I answer, it's a time warp, so hang up 
immediately.



Regards,

Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Combs, Richard
David Levy wrote: 

> I'm at the point where, if a client wants the work done in 
> Word, I build it in FM, PDF it, and then use an OCR program 
> to convert it to Word.  The results are better than FM's 
> "Save as" feature. 

 OCR??? The PDF contains *real words*, not an *image* of the
words! Why on earth would you want to treat it as an image? 

> Close my eyes, send it on, and I've never heard back from a client. 

No proofing? You do realize that OCR isn't perfect, don't you? 

> Anyone have other suggestions for getting from FM to Word?

By far the best method is Mif2Go
(http://www.omsys.com/dcl/mif2go_main.htm). Acrobat's Save As RTF is OK,
too. For that matter FM's Save As should work better than OCR, assuming
you have an appropriate Word template that uses styles with the same
names as the FM formats. 

Heck, I'd rather save the whole thing as plain text, dump it into a Word
doc, and retag it than use OCR. 

 

Richard 


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--







Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain
Hi, Richard

Combs, Richard wrote:
> David Levy wrote: 
>> I'm at the point where, if a client wants the work done in 
>> Word, I build it in FM, PDF it, and then use an OCR program 
>> to convert it to Word.  The results are better than FM's 
>> "Save as" feature. 
> 
>  OCR??? The PDF contains *real words*, not an *image* of the
> words! Why on earth would you want to treat it as an image? 

Hmmm ... I would be surprised if he is using a true "image" OCR
program. I suspect a mis-speak! :)

While I have no reason to transfer from FrameMaker to Word, I do use
a program from Nuance (formerly Scansoft) called "PDF Converter 3"
to bring in standard PDF files into Word. This works directly on the
PDF file, not an image.

And, PDF Converter 3 does provide pretty darn good results for this
conversion process.

Z



Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Combs, Richard
Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: 

> Hmmm ... I would be surprised if he is using a true "image" 
> OCR program. I suspect a mis-speak! :)

Perhaps you're right. But in fact, there's no _other_ kind of OCR
program. OCR stands for "optical character recognition." It's the
process of converting an _image_ or _representation_ of a character into
the ASCII (or ANSI or UTF...) character that it appears to represent. 

Pedants 'r Us :-)
Richard 


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--







Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain
Hi, Richard

Combs, Richard wrote:
> Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: 
>  
>> Hmmm ... I would be surprised if he is using a true "image" 
>> OCR program. I suspect a mis-speak! :)
> 
> Perhaps you're right. But in fact, there's no _other_ kind of OCR
> program. OCR stands for "optical character recognition." It's the
> process of converting an _image_ or _representation_ of a character into
> the ASCII (or ANSI or UTF...) character that it appears to represent. 

Yes, sorry, that is what I meant too. Meaning he is *not* doing a true
OCR from an image - just converting from the PDF file with some software
(like I do).

At least, I hope that is the case! Going to Word from a scanned-in
image (printed from the PDF) would be quite an unusual way to do this!

> Pedants 'r Us :-)

:) :)

Z



Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Combs, Richard
David Levy wrote: 
 
> I'm at the point where, if a client wants the work done in 
> Word, I build it in FM, PDF it, and then use an OCR program 
> to convert it to Word.  The results are better than FM's 
> "Save as" feature. 

 OCR??? The PDF contains *real words*, not an *image* of the
words! Why on earth would you want to treat it as an image? 
 
> Close my eyes, send it on, and I've never heard back from a client. 

No proofing? You do realize that OCR isn't perfect, don't you? 
 
> Anyone have other suggestions for getting from FM to Word?

By far the best method is Mif2Go
(http://www.omsys.com/dcl/mif2go_main.htm). Acrobat's Save As RTF is OK,
too. For that matter FM's Save As should work better than OCR, assuming
you have an appropriate Word template that uses styles with the same
names as the FM formats. 

Heck, I'd rather save the whole thing as plain text, dump it into a Word
doc, and retag it than use OCR. 

 

Richard 


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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Re: Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain

Hi, Richard

Combs, Richard wrote:
David Levy wrote: 
I'm at the point where, if a client wants the work done in 
Word, I build it in FM, PDF it, and then use an OCR program 
to convert it to Word.  The results are better than FM's 
"Save as" feature. 


 OCR??? The PDF contains *real words*, not an *image* of the
words! Why on earth would you want to treat it as an image? 


Hmmm ... I would be surprised if he is using a true "image" OCR
program. I suspect a mis-speak! :)

While I have no reason to transfer from FrameMaker to Word, I do use
a program from Nuance (formerly Scansoft) called "PDF Converter 3"
to bring in standard PDF files into Word. This works directly on the
PDF file, not an image.

And, PDF Converter 3 does provide pretty darn good results for this
conversion process.

Z
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RE: Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Combs, Richard
Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: 
 
> Hmmm ... I would be surprised if he is using a true "image" 
> OCR program. I suspect a mis-speak! :)

Perhaps you're right. But in fact, there's no _other_ kind of OCR
program. OCR stands for "optical character recognition." It's the
process of converting an _image_ or _representation_ of a character into
the ASCII (or ANSI or UTF...) character that it appears to represent. 

Pedants 'r Us :-)
Richard 


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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Re: Converting FM to Word (was RE: Creating Popup menus in FrameMaker)

2006-04-27 Thread Syed Zaeem Hosain

Hi, Richard

Combs, Richard wrote:
Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: 
 
Hmmm ... I would be surprised if he is using a true "image" 
OCR program. I suspect a mis-speak! :)


Perhaps you're right. But in fact, there's no _other_ kind of OCR
program. OCR stands for "optical character recognition." It's the
process of converting an _image_ or _representation_ of a character into
the ASCII (or ANSI or UTF...) character that it appears to represent. 


Yes, sorry, that is what I meant too. Meaning he is *not* doing a true
OCR from an image - just converting from the PDF file with some software
(like I do).

At least, I hope that is the case! Going to Word from a scanned-in
image (printed from the PDF) would be quite an unusual way to do this!


Pedants 'r Us :-)


:) :)

Z
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