RE: MadCap Blaze
It's the second, as in your example. If the words leave a line that's too short to look good, you can set how that's managed. It can either recalculate the lines above it and pull the short line up into the paragraph OR it can expand the text and send more into the last line. But it's automatic. You don't have to put a non-breaking space. And if you need to reuse that content in another layout, that non-breaking space could look icky in the second layout. Better to set rules for this and then move on. sharon Sharon Burton CEO, Anthrobytes Consulting 951-369-8590 www.anthrobytes.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Hedley Finger Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:35 PM To: Frame Users Subject: Re: MadCap Blaze Sharon: At Friday, 21/03/2008, 11:07 AM;, you wrote: you also have short line control, missing from FrameMaker. Is that the same as widows and orphans? Or is it when a small word, say all, turns over onto a new line at the end of a paragraph? If the latter, in FM most people just put a non-breaking space before the word, e.g. \ all, in order to bring the preceding word over onto the last line. Regards, Hedley ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
The problem is that XML and by extention XHTML describe content, not presentation or formatting. HTML is designed to present data in a formatted state (XHTML is designed to allow the content author to define the structure and presentation). But HTML does not have the control built into it for printed media. It can be used, but is a pale shadow of what can be done with a word processor, much less dedicate apps like FrameMaker or InDesign. The data format is text for Gods sake. And Blaze's output to print is through PDF or XPS. Fine, but it means you have to define your output. A second step of design that you don't do with FrameMaker or InDesign, or even Word. Scott At 3:39 PM -0800 3/20/08, Sharon Burton wrote: Vendor post Forgive me - these are straight questions. I really don't quite understand. What's convoluted about getting printed output out of XML, HTML, or XHTML topics in Blaze? You create topics, you define and assign style sheets to topics (you can also have multiple style sheets in one project and assign them at build time when you create the output), you create outlines that define the content for the output, you specify PDF, XPS, or HTML as the output, you output, and you're done. What other printed outputs would you want? PDF and XPS seem to be the only ones you can send to a printer for printed books... If your workflow needs you to also output to Word or Frame, we have that too, but it's not really a print output, per se. As to XML, HTML, or XHTML not being the right data format for content, it's the direction the industry is moving. Data in these formats are more extendable and reusable than in a Word format, for example... Pretty much all CMSs, for example, store data as one of these formats. We've not found much that you can do in unstructured Frame that you can't do in Blaze. But Blaze does things that Frame can't do, like Smart Cross-references. [see the docs or our website for what those are but they are very powerful] As to the docs, we have a 36 page Quick Start Guide and very extensive help system in the first beta build. This *is* a beta, so we're finishing the docs during the beta, hopefully using info you guys give us about what else needs tight docs. We would need to know what are you struggling with that needs more docs? Can you help me understand? Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For a product that is supposedly Print oriented, HTML is a lousy media to produce it in. There is no reason to use HTML. Even XHTML is not the best route, nor is XML. While HTML and XHTML are presentation based, they don't allow the same type of easy manipulation that FrameMaker or even Word allows. This just isn't a paradigm that makes sense to me. There isn't an output other than html or PDF or XPS. The means to get to your output result is laborious and convoluted. This just doesn't seem to be a well thought out print solution. And the beta did not provide me with any real documentation that I could view with confidence. Was that a problem with the build? Scott ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Sharon Burton, from MadCap, did a presentation at our last STC meeting. She said that Blaze was for people who only did print publishing and Flare was for print and help files etc. This was one of the disconnects I had. Why only print? Who does only print these days? Even FrameMaker out of the box does more than print. So you need Flare AND Blaze to do print and Help? Seems like overhead to me, and I don't understand this business model at all. Both Blaze and Flare make you write in a topic-oriented way, yet it doesn't do DITA. Sharon talked about all of the advantages of doing topic-oriented writing. Topic oriented writing has its advantages, and so does DITA, which is much more granular than topic oriented. There are advantages to DITA over topic oriented if you have a need to use the same content in multiple spots (like a note, definition, or anything else smaller than a topic) or across product documents. I was rather unimpressed, to be honest, when I learned that Blaze didn't support DITA. That, IMHO, gives FrameMaker a huge leg up over Blaze. I asked her why MadCap would make a product that doesn't do DITA when they are trying to compete with Frame. I said that right now, with Frame 8, all I had to do was flip it to structured and I had DITA, so moving to Blaze or Flare was a step backward. She didn't really have an answer for me on that. She didn't have an answer for me, either. She said that Madcap was creating a CMS first, and then it was going to make Blaze and Flare DITA compatible. I told her that in my opinion, that was a bad plan. They will never be competitive with Frame until they do DITA, and no one is going to buy a CMS when they can get Subversion and CVS for free so they would be better off doing DITA now and the CMS later. Right. There shouldn't be a dependency on a proprietary CMS for Flare and Blaze if the content is indeed XML (which it's not). -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner Senior Member STC, TechValley Chapter STC Single-Sourcing SIG Manager http://techcommdood.blogspot.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MadCap Blaze
Vendor Post I've been at WritersUA and away from my personal email since Sunday. I got back late last night. I'm the product manager for Blaze. (BTW - great conference!) Some clarifications: Blaze is the younger sister of Flare 4. If you need complex print and online docs, then you want Flare 4. If you only need printed output, then you want Blaze. Everything that's in Blaze will be in Flare 4. Blaze is a fully featured print authoring and publishing system. It imports and exports Frame and Word because you may have a workflow that requires you to import from or export to these formats for some reason. We want to account for that. However, you don't *need* to export to Frame to get your output if your workflow doesn't require that. You can import existing Word or Frame documents and you're good to go. Then you can directly create PDFs or XPSs as your deliverables, with the content for those deliverables based on your Outlines. Our page design and layout in Blaze is robust so there's no need to export to Frame if your workflow doesn't require Frame as an output. One of the biggest differences in Blaze - and really, Flare - is that you are not authoring long documents, but rather you're authoring topics. Then, using Outlines, you put together the topics into the deliverables; for example, a User's Guide and an Admin Guide. There's nothing to prevent you from authoring just like you do in Word of Frame in that you can open a new topic in Blaze and then write a 200 page document in one topic. But by doing that, you lose the power of topic-based content development that easily allows content reuse across multiple deliverables for one or more projects. I strongly urge you to attend one of my online demos to learn more about the paradigm shift for Blaze. If you are not aware of the shift and just click Next in the import wizard, you are going to wind up with a mess. I go over that in the demos. (Don't try to signup for a few hours, as all the scheduled demos for the next 6 weeks are full and I have to schedule more. Give me until about 9am Pacific today, please.) As to our newly announced product Press, it's for glossy print materials, like Annual reports or other glossy printed material. It's related to our other products, but it's not the only press solution. As to DITA or CMS, check out our just announced product Team Server. It's a workflow management tool that's amazing. We have ideas about what it should do but we want your input about what you need that tool to do. I'm delighted to answer questions about Blaze or any of our products. If you could send those questions to my MadCap email, that would help me a lot. [EMAIL PROTECTED], please. sharon Sharon Burton MadCap Software Product Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://madcapsoftware.wordpress.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Some clarifications: Blaze is the younger sister of Flare 4. If you need complex print and online docs, then you want Flare 4. If you only need printed output, then you want Blaze. Everything that's in Blaze will be in Flare 4. I really don't understand this, I'm not trying to be difficult... But if Flare does everything that Blaze does and more, and Flare's been out for years, why develop Blaze at all? I guess I don't see the point of spending the time, energy, and money to develop a brand new product that does a subset of what another of your products already does. One of the biggest differences in Blaze - and really, Flare - is that you are not authoring long documents, but rather you're authoring topics. Then, using Outlines, you put together the topics into the deliverables; for example, a User's Guide and an Admin Guide. The classic authoring model for FrameMaker is indeed long document authoring, but it's not so with DITA. There's nothing to prevent you from authoring just like you do in Word of Frame in that you can open a new topic in Blaze and then write a 200 page document in one topic. But by doing that, you lose the power of topic-based content development that easily allows content reuse across multiple deliverables for one or more projects. Well, agreed. That would be just silly. For the record, I've done topic-based authoring in FrameMaker years ago. It's all about how you approach your content structure. I needed to leverage topics in different documents in different ways, so I just created a new document for every portable topic. I don't think topic based content authoring is a revolutionary concept. I strongly urge you to attend one of my online demos to learn more about the paradigm shift for Blaze. I don't see a paradigm shift at all, but the UI is way different than what non-Flare users would be accustomed to. But paradigm shift, no. Topic based authoring is not a new concept. As to DITA or CMS, check out our just announced product Team Server. It's a workflow management tool that's amazing. We have ideas about what it should do but we want your input about what you need that tool to do. I'm confused. Is it a product or is it an idea for a product? I'm delighted to answer questions about Blaze or any of our products. If you could send those questions to my MadCap email, that would help me a lot. [EMAIL PROTECTED], please. I'll keep my questions on the list since that's where they originated. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner Senior Member STC, TechValley Chapter STC Single-Sourcing SIG Manager http://techcommdood.blogspot.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MadCap Blaze
Because some people don't want or need online docs. For example, one of my former clients was a cash register manufacturer. You can buy their products for about $100. There is no concept of online help for these products, as they don't come with a computer. I delivered a PDF of the manual and they sent that to the printer. They delivered a printed book with the product. Why should these people purchase a tool that does way more than they need? Flare 4 is too much for them. I don't wish to get into the DITA discussion because that's very far afield from the discussion of the Blaze beta at this moment. If you are currently doing DITA and you're happy with your tools, then good on you. MadCap will support DITA in the future. That's all I wish to publicly disclose about our plans for DITA at this time. Team Server is being developed right now. I would expect it by the end of the year. Because we want to know what you want in a product like this, and because we are developing it right now, now would be the time to talk to us about what you want in a workflow management tool. We want to build what you are looking for in this sort of tool. We have ideas but you all know your workflow needs. I never said that topic-based authoring is a new concept. But it is a shift from how most people think about docs. Thus, a discussion of this development method is relevant. For lots of good info, see JoAnn Hackos's newest book. She really explains it in detail. And, yes, our UI is very different. Some people love it, some don't. sharon Sharon Burton -Original Message- From: Bill Swallow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Frame Users; Sharon Work Subject: Re: MadCap Blaze Some clarifications: Blaze is the younger sister of Flare 4. If you need complex print and online docs, then you want Flare 4. If you only need printed output, then you want Blaze. Everything that's in Blaze will be in Flare 4. I really don't understand this, I'm not trying to be difficult... But if Flare does everything that Blaze does and more, and Flare's been out for years, why develop Blaze at all? I guess I don't see the point of spending the time, energy, and money to develop a brand new product that does a subset of what another of your products already does. One of the biggest differences in Blaze - and really, Flare - is that you are not authoring long documents, but rather you're authoring topics. Then, using Outlines, you put together the topics into the deliverables; for example, a User's Guide and an Admin Guide. The classic authoring model for FrameMaker is indeed long document authoring, but it's not so with DITA. There's nothing to prevent you from authoring just like you do in Word of Frame in that you can open a new topic in Blaze and then write a 200 page document in one topic. But by doing that, you lose the power of topic-based content development that easily allows content reuse across multiple deliverables for one or more projects. Well, agreed. That would be just silly. For the record, I've done topic-based authoring in FrameMaker years ago. It's all about how you approach your content structure. I needed to leverage topics in different documents in different ways, so I just created a new document for every portable topic. I don't think topic based content authoring is a revolutionary concept. I strongly urge you to attend one of my online demos to learn more about the paradigm shift for Blaze. I don't see a paradigm shift at all, but the UI is way different than what non-Flare users would be accustomed to. But paradigm shift, no. Topic based authoring is not a new concept. As to DITA or CMS, check out our just announced product Team Server. It's a workflow management tool that's amazing. We have ideas about what it should do but we want your input about what you need that tool to do. I'm confused. Is it a product or is it an idea for a product? I'm delighted to answer questions about Blaze or any of our products. If you could send those questions to my MadCap email, that would help me a lot. [EMAIL PROTECTED], please. I'll keep my questions on the list since that's where they originated. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner Senior Member STC, TechValley Chapter STC Single-Sourcing SIG Manager http://techcommdood.blogspot.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
For a product that is supposedly Print oriented, HTML is a lousy media to produce it in. There is no reason to use HTML. Even XHTML is not the best route, nor is XML. While HTML and XHTML are presentation based, they don't allow the same type of easy manipulation that FrameMaker or even Word allows. This just isn't a paradigm that makes sense to me. There isn't an output other than html or PDF or XPS. The means to get to your output result is laborious and convoluted. This just doesn't seem to be a well thought out print solution. And the beta did not provide me with any real documentation that I could view with confidence. Was that a problem with the build? Scott ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Vendor post Forgive me - these are straight questions. I really don't quite understand. What's convoluted about getting printed output out of XML, HTML, or XHTML topics in Blaze? You create topics, you define and assign style sheets to topics (you can also have multiple style sheets in one project and assign them at build time when you create the output), you create outlines that define the content for the output, you specify PDF, XPS, or HTML as the output, you output, and you're done. What other printed outputs would you want? PDF and XPS seem to be the only ones you can send to a printer for printed books... If your workflow needs you to also output to Word or Frame, we have that too, but it's not really a print output, per se. As to XML, HTML, or XHTML not being the right data format for content, it's the direction the industry is moving. Data in these formats are more extendable and reusable than in a Word format, for example... Pretty much all CMSs, for example, store data as one of these formats. We've not found much that you can do in unstructured Frame that you can't do in Blaze. But Blaze does things that Frame can't do, like Smart Cross-references. [see the docs or our website for what those are but they are very powerful] As to the docs, we have a 36 page Quick Start Guide and very extensive help system in the first beta build. This *is* a beta, so we're finishing the docs during the beta, hopefully using info you guys give us about what else needs tight docs. We would need to know what are you struggling with that needs more docs? Can you help me understand? Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For a product that is supposedly Print oriented, HTML is a lousy media to produce it in. There is no reason to use HTML. Even XHTML is not the best route, nor is XML. While HTML and XHTML are presentation based, they don't allow the same type of easy manipulation that FrameMaker or even Word allows. This just isn't a paradigm that makes sense to me. There isn't an output other than html or PDF or XPS. The means to get to your output result is laborious and convoluted. This just doesn't seem to be a well thought out print solution. And the beta did not provide me with any real documentation that I could view with confidence. Was that a problem with the build? Scott ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
leading ... kerning ... tracking ... ligatures ... this kinda stuff (and more) is something you expect from print. HTML, even with the aid of CSS, is not going to be able to give you the control of these that you would get from an app designed for print. Sharon Burton wrote: Can you help me understand? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
In fact, we have these features and in fact you have the sort of control - and in some cases, more control - you expect from an app designed for print. For example, you also have short line control, missing from FrameMaker. Really. Quoting William Gaffga [EMAIL PROTECTED]: leading ... kerning ... tracking ... ligatures ... this kinda stuff (and more) is something you expect from print. HTML, even with the aid of CSS, is not going to be able to give you the control of these that you would get from an app designed for print. Sharon Burton wrote: Can you help me understand? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Sharon: I concur with Bill. What I cannot understand is that this was trumpeted as a FrameMaker killer yet its functionality falls far below. FM is very powerful but still needs a lot of work. For one, the presence of so many indexing add-ons indicates that better indexing and index management needs to be built in. The Adobe DITA support is woeful; thank god Leximation and Silicon Publishing are addressing that with their plugin. At Friday, 21/03/2008, 02:26 AM;, you wrote: One of the biggest differences in Blaze - and really, Flare - is that you are not authoring long documents, but rather you're authoring topics. Then, using Outlines, you put together the topics into the deliverables; for example, a User's Guide and an Admin Guide. Then why didn't you just do DITA from the beginning? It has a much more robust model of technical communications documents -- and you can specialise your own models for specific requirements. The XHTML-based model is foolish because you are simply implementing a good old unstructured document no better than Word, unstructured FrameMaker or Notepad. One of the bugbears in a team environment is ensuring everyone is using the same structure and styles/formats appropriately. You can employ an editor to ride herd on everybody -- or just implement a DTD or schema which automatically enforces conformance. There's nothing to prevent you from authoring just like you do in Word of Frame in that you can open a new topic in Blaze and then write a 200 page document in one topic. ... Well, agreed. ... For the record, I've done topic-based authoring in FrameMaker years ago. A colleague of mine implements a very DITA-like approach by having empty chapter files in which all the content is imported as text insets. The equivalent of the related-links element was implemented by putting FM cross-references in the chapter document after each of the topic text-insets. This ensured the topics were context free but the cross- references were robust. I strongly urge you to attend one of my online demos to learn more about the paradigm shift for Blaze. What paradigm shift? The Madcap team were from Bluesky/Robohelp/eHelp, so must be quite familiar with the topic model. I don't have a problem with quirky GUIs as any IDE is similar. In fact, I think a tech. doco app should have an interface more like an IDE. I played around for five minutes. How do you get to a code view, as long as we are in XML? As to DITA or CMS, check out our just announced product Team Server. It's a workflow management tool that's amazing. We have ideas about what it should do but we want your input about what you need that tool to do. I'm confused. Is it a product or is it an idea for a product? Well, it should allow concurrent checkout, automatic merge on checkin if changes don't clash, and manual compare and merge if changes by different writers do clash. It should allow branching and merging back to the trunk. It should allow automation so overnight doco builds can be done. It should mark topics that have been touched since the last release so that the editor/reviewers/writers don't have to review the entire publication. It should allow staging so that changes by disgruntled employees are not immediately published on to the website. Etc. I'm delighted to answer questions about Blaze or any of our products. If you could send those questions to my MadCap email, that would help me a lot. [EMAIL PROTECTED], please. If I come up with any more suggestions, they will be published right here. They will be better for evaluation and improvement by other list members. Regards, Hedley -- Hedley Stewart Finger 28 Regent Street Camberwell VIC 3124 Australia Tel. +61 3 9809 1229 Mobile +61 412 461 558, E-mail mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Hedley Stewart Finger 28 Regent Street Camberwell VIC 3124 Australia Tel. +61 3 9809 1229 Mobile +61 412 461 558, E-mail mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Sharon: At Friday, 21/03/2008, 11:07 AM;, you wrote: you also have short line control, missing from FrameMaker. Is that the same as widows and orphans? Or is it when a small word, say all, turns over onto a new line at the end of a paragraph? If the latter, in FM most people just put a non-breaking space before the word, e.g. \ all, in order to bring the preceding word over onto the last line. Regards, Hedley -- Hedley Stewart Finger 28 Regent Street Camberwell VIC 3124 Australia Tel. +61 3 9809 1229 Mobile +61 412 461 558, E-mail mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Hi Scott, I downloaded and installed it as well, but there was no documentation to speak of. The interface was anything but intuitive so I uninstalled it. When they have some kind of tutorial available, I may try it again. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com I have been waiting with baited breath ever since the rumors of MadCap Blaze came forth, that a replacement to FrameMaker was in the works. I just downloaded the public beta. Has anyone else done so? If so I wonder if anyone else shares my disappointment. Blaze appears to be a variant of Flare. It isn't an authoring tool so much as a conversion tool. It seems not to know if its main thrust is HTML or XML, and it seems to lean heavily toward HTML. I think that this product sufferes from delusions of adequacy. I am not a fan of MadCap Flare, it's interface is convoluted and difficult to master, and those same features have been duplicated for Blaze. I really don't see much difference between the two products. Now I see that the printed media solution is Press. It makes me wonder if MadCap is trying to emulate the Interleaf model, multiple products for a single solution. Mulitple prices for a single solution. Interleaf at the very least produced solid SGML. It had a fairly good GUI and method for assigning formatting tags. FrameMaker was simplier, monolithic and cheaper. With what MadCap is doing they seem bent on producing a series of products that are more complicated, and more expensive than FrameMaker and any other conversion tool with it. Does anyone else have a simliar view of this, or a different experience? It feels like Blue Sky happening all over again. Scott ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
I honestly came to the same conclusions about Blaze. I don't see it being that much different from Flare at all. I was also disappointed that it wasn't true XML (it's XHTML) and that it's not DITA capable from what I've seen. IMO it's not an alternative to FM at all. On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been waiting with baited breath ever since the rumors of MadCap Blaze came forth, that a replacement to FrameMaker was in the works. I just downloaded the public beta. Has anyone else done so? If so I wonder if anyone else shares my disappointment. Blaze appears to be a variant of Flare. It isn't an authoring tool so much as a conversion tool. It seems not to know if its main thrust is HTML or XML, and it seems to lean heavily toward HTML. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner Senior Member STC, TechValley Chapter STC Single-Sourcing SIG Manager http://techcommdood.blogspot.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Blaze appears to be a variant of Flare. It isn't an authoring tool so much as a conversion tool. It seems not to know if its main thrust is HTML or XML, and it seems to lean heavily toward HTML. Blaze essentially IS Flare in that, if I remember correctly, all the functionality in Blaze is also in Flare. Flare then has additional publishing functionality. == Rick Henkel http://rickhenkel.googlepages.com/index.htm ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Blaze essentially IS Flare in that, if I remember correctly, all the functionality in Blaze is also in Flare. Flare then has additional publishing functionality. Flare has more than Blaze? Ir did you mean that the other way around? Either way, I'm kind of stumped why Blaze wasn't just made into a significant Flare upgrade. -- Bill Swallow HATT List Owner WWP-Users List Owner Senior Member STC, TechValley Chapter STC Single-Sourcing SIG Manager http://techcommdood.blogspot.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Flare has more than Blaze? Ir did you mean that the other way around? Flare has more than Blaze. Kind of like Flare : Blaze :: Acrobat : Reader Rick ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: MadCap Blaze
Am 19.03.2008 um 17:05 schrieb Rick Henkel: Flare has more than Blaze. Kind of like Flare : Blaze :: Acrobat : Reader They must have something up their sleeve... or why did they once position Blaze as FrameMaker killer? You wouldn't expect a serious company to exaggerate things like that, would you? Maybe I forgot, that in marketing everything is allowed... Well, FrameMaker is still listed two times on the Blaze website: As possible import format and as output format (which would only be necessary if the products own print layout capabilities are somewhat limited). BTW, I am hesitant to install .NET 3.0 and enjoy your reports! - Michael -- ___ Michael Müller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologie Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker Lösungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MadCap Blaze
Sharon Burton, from MadCap, did a presentation at our last STC meeting. She said that Blaze was for people who only did print publishing and Flare was for print and help files etc. Both Blaze and Flare make you write in a topic-oriented way, yet it doesn't do DITA. Sharon talked about all of the advantages of doing topic-oriented writing. I asked her why MadCap would make a product that doesn't do DITA when they are trying to compete with Frame. I said that right now, with Frame 8, all I had to do was flip it to structured and I had DITA, so moving to Blaze or Flare was a step backward. She didn't really have an answer for me on that. She said that Madcap was creating a CMS first, and then it was going to make Blaze and Flare DITA compatible. I told her that in my opinion, that was a bad plan. They will never be competitive with Frame until they do DITA, and no one is going to buy a CMS when they can get Subversion and CVS for free so they would be better off doing DITA now and the CMS later. I don't know if she passed on what I said to the MadCap people but we'll see. Thank you, Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 408.545.6316 408.232.5911 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Müller-Hillebrand Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:17 AM To: Frame Users Subject: Re: MadCap Blaze Am 19.03.2008 um 17:05 schrieb Rick Henkel: Flare has more than Blaze. Kind of like Flare : Blaze :: Acrobat : Reader They must have something up their sleeve... or why did they once position Blaze as FrameMaker killer? You wouldn't expect a serious company to exaggerate things like that, would you? Maybe I forgot, that in marketing everything is allowed... Well, FrameMaker is still listed two times on the Blaze website: As possible import format and as output format (which would only be necessary if the products own print layout capabilities are somewhat limited). BTW, I am hesitant to install .NET 3.0 and enjoy your reports! - Michael -- ___ Michael Müller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologie Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker Lösungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MadCap Blaze
The other products in the MadCap lineup hint more at the CMS route (check their press release pages). Once they get those items in play it could be an interesting product set, and personally I think they are right to take on Adobe, even if they are falling short at the moment. Should keep Adobe on their toes (as well as the other vendors). Personally I think the MadCap product suite will more closely compete with AuthorIT but... hey, only time will tell. Gordon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flato, Gillian Sent: 19 March 2008 16:33 To: Frame Users Subject: RE: MadCap Blaze Sharon Burton, from MadCap, did a presentation at our last STC meeting. She said that Blaze was for people who only did print publishing and Flare was for print and help files etc. Both Blaze and Flare make you write in a topic-oriented way, yet it doesn't do DITA. Sharon talked about all of the advantages of doing topic-oriented writing. I asked her why MadCap would make a product that doesn't do DITA when they are trying to compete with Frame. I said that right now, with Frame 8, all I had to do was flip it to structured and I had DITA, so moving to Blaze or Flare was a step backward. She didn't really have an answer for me on that. She said that Madcap was creating a CMS first, and then it was going to make Blaze and Flare DITA compatible. I told her that in my opinion, that was a bad plan. They will never be competitive with Frame until they do DITA, and no one is going to buy a CMS when they can get Subversion and CVS for free so they would be better off doing DITA now and the CMS later. I don't know if she passed on what I said to the MadCap people but we'll see. Thank you, Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 408.545.6316 408.232.5911 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Müller-Hillebrand Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:17 AM To: Frame Users Subject: Re: MadCap Blaze Am 19.03.2008 um 17:05 schrieb Rick Henkel: Flare has more than Blaze. Kind of like Flare : Blaze :: Acrobat : Reader They must have something up their sleeve... or why did they once position Blaze as FrameMaker killer? You wouldn't expect a serious company to exaggerate things like that, would you? Maybe I forgot, that in marketing everything is allowed... Well, FrameMaker is still listed two times on the Blaze website: As possible import format and as output format (which would only be necessary if the products own print layout capabilities are somewhat limited). BTW, I am hesitant to install .NET 3.0 and enjoy your reports! - Michael -- ___ Michael Müller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologie Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker Lösungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gordon.mclean%40grahamte chnology.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. This email (and any attachments) is private and confidential, and is intended solely for the addressee. If you have received this communication in error please remove it and inform us via telephone or email. Although we take all possible steps to ensure mail and attachments are free from malicious content, malware and viruses, we cannot accept any responsibility whatsoever for any changes to content outwith our administrative bounds. The views represented within this mail are solely the view of the author and do not reflect the views of the organisation as a whole. Graham Technology plc Registered in Scotland company no. SC143434 Registered Office India of Inchinnan, Renfrewshire, Scotland PA4 9LH http://www.grahamtechnology.com ___ You
Re: MadCap Blaze
I downloaded it. Underwhelmed. We purchased Flare in our move away from WebWorks Publisher Pro and I am just starting to learn it. I looked at Blaze and was shocked that it looked identical to Flare and that I had no idea how to go about making a book. Never have I acquired a DTP, layout or text app of any sort and had no idea how to proceed. If I banged my head against it for a little while I'm sure I'd get it but decided instead to import a FM book (about 350 pages) and look at the results. 30 minutes later I had a bunch of files all in one structure. PNGs mixed in with HTML files. Chaos. And HTML files? You gotta be kidding me. If I have a lot of free time on my hands I might look again but right now ... not looking at Blaze at all as a replacement for FM. Will. -- Will. Gaffga Documentation Manager Gibbs and Associates Moorpark, CA USA 805-523-0004 AIM:gaffga1 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: MadCap Blaze
I haven't even installed Blaze yet! But I will anyway even though nothing I heard so far is good. I'm interested in this CMS that you mentioned. I'm not using structure yet (haven't found a good enough reason). But writing in topics is becoming a real management nightmare in FrameMaker. Catherine Woods Senior Documentation Specialist Polycom Canada Burnaby, BC [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flato, Gillian Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:33 AM To: Frame Users Subject: RE: MadCap Blaze Sharon Burton, from MadCap, did a presentation at our last STC meeting. She said that Blaze was for people who only did print publishing and Flare was for print and help files etc. Both Blaze and Flare make you write in a topic-oriented way, yet it doesn't do DITA. Sharon talked about all of the advantages of doing topic-oriented writing. I asked her why MadCap would make a product that doesn't do DITA when they are trying to compete with Frame. I said that right now, with Frame 8, all I had to do was flip it to structured and I had DITA, so moving to Blaze or Flare was a step backward. She didn't really have an answer for me on that. She said that Madcap was creating a CMS first, and then it was going to make Blaze and Flare DITA compatible. I told her that in my opinion, that was a bad plan. They will never be competitive with Frame until they do DITA, and no one is going to buy a CMS when they can get Subversion and CVS for free so they would be better off doing DITA now and the CMS later. I don't know if she passed on what I said to the MadCap people but we'll see. Thank you, Gillian Flato Technical Writer (Software) nanometrics 1550 Buckeye Dr. Milpitas, CA. 95035 408.545.6316 408.232.5911 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Müller-Hillebrand Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:17 AM To: Frame Users Subject: Re: MadCap Blaze Am 19.03.2008 um 17:05 schrieb Rick Henkel: Flare has more than Blaze. Kind of like Flare : Blaze :: Acrobat : Reader They must have something up their sleeve... or why did they once position Blaze as FrameMaker killer? You wouldn't expect a serious company to exaggerate things like that, would you? Maybe I forgot, that in marketing everything is allowed... Well, FrameMaker is still listed two times on the Blaze website: As possible import format and as output format (which would only be necessary if the products own print layout capabilities are somewhat limited). BTW, I am hesitant to install .NET 3.0 and enjoy your reports! - Michael -- ___ Michael Müller-Hillebrand: Dokumentations-Technologie Adobe Certified Expert, FrameMaker Lösungen und Training, FrameScript, XML/XSL, Unicode http://cap-studio.de/ -- Tel. +49 (9131) 28747 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/gflato%40nanometrics.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/catwood%40telus.net Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
