TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Kapil Verma]

Craig, Gillian and others,

Thanks for your post and suggestions. I am the FM product manager at Adobe and 
wanted to let you know that we will definitely consider the suggestions 
mentioned in this thread.

Also, though this post, I wanted to point out that now in FrameMaker 11, you 
can easily automatically generate cover page, TOC, index, List of figures, list 
of tables pages etc. through a settings file called ditafm-output.ini. You can 
auto-generate these components either by (1) directly generating the PDF from 
the ditamap or (2) by generating a book first from the ditamap.


* For the first option, one needs to go to the setting file and turn on 
the flag called SavePDFViaBookRoute (i.e. make it 1). Afterwards, choose the 
relevant settings you want e.g. GenerateTOC=1, GenerateIndex=1 etc. Save and 
close, and generate the PDF. FM would create all the components in the PDF 
automatically as specified by you in the settings file. You can even choose 
different templates and specify various numbering options.

* For the second option, setting the SavePDFViaBookRoute flag is not 
required. Rest of the process works the same way.

Useful resources

* See the ditafm-output.ini overview and flag reference documentation 
for more details 
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/ini/framemaker_11_ini_reference.pdf 
(Chapter 1 of the documentation). Online version of the documentation can be 
found here<http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/ini/index.html>. There are 
plenty of flags in this file to allow you to configure how the output gets 
generated

 *   To know more about how you can publish your DITAMAP to a professional PDF, 
while automatically generating TOC, Index etc., please see the blog post 
here<http://blogs.adobe.com/tcs/2012/10/uncategorized/iniref.html>

* Also, see a related video here 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqSMLpaqKxg which shows this capability in 
action.

Hope it helps. Let us know how it goes.

Thx,
Kapil Verma
Sr. Product Manager - FrameMaker line of products



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Craig Ede
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:20 PM
To: gillian.flato at nexenta.com; framers
Subject: RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

I am currently working a contract for a company where we are writing DITA files 
using FM11 (not TCS 4). Producing DITA using FM 11 is fairly easy, but there as 
some caveats. The built in EDDs, etc. allow producing more-or-less adequate PDF 
using SaveAsPDF from ditamap files. To get TOCs, covers and other nicities, you 
have to save the ditamap as a composite FM file and then add the additional 
files into a FM book containing the composite file. Exactly how to massage 
paragraph formats to get the results you desire withing the composite FM file 
is not transparent. Structured documents are more difficult to change the 
formats in since the EDD is the source of that information.  (Any tips on how 
to get the notes that are warnings and cautions will be accepted with much 
happiness from anyone reading this.)

Another avenue to PDF (as well as HTMLHELP, javaHelp and other formats) comes 
through using the DITA Open Toolkit. This is now easy to install so you get 
what you need and the results are great for many of the formats. Most of the 
help systems offered come through without muss or fuss except for an occasional 
unrecognized character that can cause problems but is easily fixed). My boss 
was astounded at the ease of producing HTMLHelp in this way.

The DITAOpenToolkit PDF is equally easy to produce from a ditamap, but, of 
course, has a different look than the SaveAsPDF from FM11. This is because it 
uses CSS templates to format the output. The result is a terrible cover sheet, 
a great TOC, nice formatting of Warnings and the like. The regular notes icon 
is terrible; a finger pointing to the note that seems totally out of place [it 
reminds me of the similar character used by Walt Kelly in the world ballons for 
the P.T. Bridgeport character from POGO]. Wading into the OpenToolkits 
templates to modify the CSS is daughting, but doable. There are tips on this 
that pop up if you search the web, but, again, it is not particularly 
straightforward. Be sure to save the original copy of each template before 
modifying.

My experience with DITA is that it is great at reducing duplication in manuals, 
aids in breaking apart tasks that actually combined multiple tasks in one (thus 
making them both clearer and more reusable), and helps to identify material in 
manuals that just got in there because the designers of a machine were 
enamoured of explaining how the pieces of it work (even if that information is 
useless for any operator or maintainance task). I love it! However, I would 
take the statement that TCS 4 offers a  single out-of-the-box solution with a 
big grain of salt.

I am going to send a separate posti

RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Kapil Verma]

Craig, Gillian and others,

Thanks for your post and suggestions. I am the FM product manager at Adobe and 
wanted to let you know that we will definitely consider the suggestions 
mentioned in this thread.

Also, though this post, I wanted to point out that now in FrameMaker 11, you 
can easily automatically generate cover page, TOC, index, List of figures, list 
of tables pages etc. through a settings file called ditafm-output.ini. You can 
auto-generate these components either by (1) directly generating the PDF from 
the ditamap or (2) by generating a book first from the ditamap.


* For the first option, one needs to go to the setting file and turn on 
the flag called SavePDFViaBookRoute (i.e. make it 1). Afterwards, choose the 
relevant settings you want e.g. GenerateTOC=1, GenerateIndex=1 etc. Save and 
close, and generate the PDF. FM would create all the components in the PDF 
automatically as specified by you in the settings file. You can even choose 
different templates and specify various numbering options.

* For the second option, setting the SavePDFViaBookRoute flag is not 
required. Rest of the process works the same way.

Useful resources

* See the ditafm-output.ini overview and flag reference documentation 
for more details 
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/ini/framemaker_11_ini_reference.pdf 
(Chapter 1 of the documentation). Online version of the documentation can be 
found here<http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/ini/index.html>. There are 
plenty of flags in this file to allow you to configure how the output gets 
generated

 *   To know more about how you can publish your DITAMAP to a professional PDF, 
while automatically generating TOC, Index etc., please see the blog post 
here<http://blogs.adobe.com/tcs/2012/10/uncategorized/iniref.html>

* Also, see a related video here 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqSMLpaqKxg which shows this capability in 
action.

Hope it helps. Let us know how it goes.

Thx,
Kapil Verma
Sr. Product Manager - FrameMaker line of products



From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Craig Ede
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:20 PM
To: gillian.fl...@nexenta.com; framers
Subject: RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

I am currently working a contract for a company where we are writing DITA files 
using FM11 (not TCS 4). Producing DITA using FM 11 is fairly easy, but there as 
some caveats. The built in EDDs, etc. allow producing more-or-less adequate PDF 
using SaveAsPDF from ditamap files. To get TOCs, covers and other nicities, you 
have to save the ditamap as a composite FM file and then add the additional 
files into a FM book containing the composite file. Exactly how to massage 
paragraph formats to get the results you desire withing the composite FM file 
is not transparent. Structured documents are more difficult to change the 
formats in since the EDD is the source of that information.  (Any tips on how 
to get the notes that are warnings and cautions will be accepted with much 
happiness from anyone reading this.)

Another avenue to PDF (as well as HTMLHELP, javaHelp and other formats) comes 
through using the DITA Open Toolkit. This is now easy to install so you get 
what you need and the results are great for many of the formats. Most of the 
help systems offered come through without muss or fuss except for an occasional 
unrecognized character that can cause problems but is easily fixed). My boss 
was astounded at the ease of producing HTMLHelp in this way.

The DITAOpenToolkit PDF is equally easy to produce from a ditamap, but, of 
course, has a different look than the SaveAsPDF from FM11. This is because it 
uses CSS templates to format the output. The result is a terrible cover sheet, 
a great TOC, nice formatting of Warnings and the like. The regular notes icon 
is terrible; a finger pointing to the note that seems totally out of place [it 
reminds me of the similar character used by Walt Kelly in the world ballons for 
the P.T. Bridgeport character from POGO]. Wading into the OpenToolkits 
templates to modify the CSS is daughting, but doable. There are tips on this 
that pop up if you search the web, but, again, it is not particularly 
straightforward. Be sure to save the original copy of each template before 
modifying.

My experience with DITA is that it is great at reducing duplication in manuals, 
aids in breaking apart tasks that actually combined multiple tasks in one (thus 
making them both clearer and more reusable), and helps to identify material in 
manuals that just got in there because the designers of a machine were 
enamoured of explaining how the pieces of it work (even if that information is 
useless for any operator or maintainance task). I love it! However, I would 
take the statement that TCS 4 offers a  single out-of-the-box solution with a 
big grain of salt.

I am going to send a separate posting wi

RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[David Creamer]

The book FrameMaker: A Hands-On Guide to Creating DITA Compliant Documents
is on Frame 9, but most of the info is still good. 
Of course, you will have to check out the new DITA-related features that
Frame 10 and 11 added.

http://www.publishingsmarter.com/resources/books-and-articles/framemaker

David Creamer
IDEAS Training
http://www.ideastraining.com
Adobe Authorized Instructor & Certified Expert since 1995


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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[David Creamer]

The book FrameMaker: A Hands-On Guide to Creating DITA Compliant Documents
is on Frame 9, but most of the info is still good. 
Of course, you will have to check out the new DITA-related features that
Frame 10 and 11 added.

http://www.publishingsmarter.com/resources/books-and-articles/framemaker

David Creamer
IDEAS Training
http://www.ideastraining.com
Adobe Authorized Instructor & Certified Expert since 1995

RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Combs, Richard]

Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: 
 
> I like the Scriptorium _Unstructured_ FrameMaker book a lot (currently
> for version 8), and am looking forward to their Version 11 (as
> mentioned in the link you provided).
> 
> They had also announced, some years ago, a _Structured_ FrameMaker
> Version 8 book, which they decided not to release ... due to a belief
> that sales would not justify the work.
> 
> So, that was my reason for piling on to your comment, i.e. my
> plug/hint/prod to release the old book - perhaps in a PDF-only version?
> - particularly if there is no version 11 planned.

If as you suggest, the FM 8 version was finished or nearly so, releasing it 
makes lots of sense and failing to makes none. The time, effort, and money 
invested in the book are what economists call "sunk costs" (analogous to the 
layperson's concept of "spilt milk"). That's in the past and can't be undone. 

Any sales whatsoever, no matter how few, would be better than none because 
they'd at least recover some of the sunk costs. PDF or EPUB make a lot of sense 
because they don't require any significant additional investment, like printing 
and binding would. 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Combs, Richard]

Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: 

> I like the Scriptorium _Unstructured_ FrameMaker book a lot (currently
> for version 8), and am looking forward to their Version 11 (as
> mentioned in the link you provided).
> 
> They had also announced, some years ago, a _Structured_ FrameMaker
> Version 8 book, which they decided not to release ... due to a belief
> that sales would not justify the work.
> 
> So, that was my reason for piling on to your comment, i.e. my
> plug/hint/prod to release the old book - perhaps in a PDF-only version?
> - particularly if there is no version 11 planned.

If as you suggest, the FM 8 version was finished or nearly so, releasing it 
makes lots of sense and failing to makes none. The time, effort, and money 
invested in the book are what economists call "sunk costs" (analogous to the 
layperson's concept of "spilt milk"). That's in the past and can't be undone. 

Any sales whatsoever, no matter how few, would be better than none because 
they'd at least recover some of the sunk costs. PDF or EPUB make a lot of sense 
because they don't require any significant additional investment, like printing 
and binding would. 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

> My bad. Is the most recent book on structured publishing with FrameMaker 
> actually "Structured Publishing from the Desktop: Frame Technology's 
> Framemaker," published in 1992?

I am not sure, to be honest. I have not looked for those older books.

I like the Scriptorium _Unstructured_ FrameMaker book a lot (currently for 
version 8), and am looking forward to their Version 11 (as mentioned in the 
link you provided).

They had also announced, some years ago, a _Structured_ FrameMaker Version 8 
book, which they decided not to release ... due to a belief that sales would 
not justify the work.

So, that was my reason for piling on to your comment, i.e. my plug/hint/prod to 
release the old book - perhaps in a PDF-only version? - particularly if there 
is no version 11 planned.

Z

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>
>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>
>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>
> Good!
>
> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>
> Z
>
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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

> My bad. Is the most recent book on structured publishing with FrameMaker 
> actually "Structured Publishing from the Desktop: Frame Technology's 
> Framemaker," published in 1992?

I am not sure, to be honest. I have not looked for those older books.

I like the Scriptorium _Unstructured_ FrameMaker book a lot (currently for 
version 8), and am looking forward to their Version 11 (as mentioned in the 
link you provided).

They had also announced, some years ago, a _Structured_ FrameMaker Version 8 
book, which they decided not to release ... due to a belief that sales would 
not justify the work.

So, that was my reason for piling on to your comment, i.e. my plug/hint/prod to 
release the old book - perhaps in a PDF-only version? - particularly if there 
is no version 11 planned.

Z

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(Syed.Hosain at aeris.net)  wrote:
> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>
>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>
>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>
> Good!
>
> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>
> Z
>
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Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

My bad. Is the most recent book on structured publishing with
FrameMaker actually "Structured Publishing from the Desktop: Frame
Technology's Framemaker," published in 1992?

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>
>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>
>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>
> Good!
>
> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>
> Z
>
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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Lin Sims]

What Syed said. I've got the Frame 8 book, and it's still incredibly
useful, but the company I'm now working at is using Frame 10 and is
making noises about moving all of us into structured, so I want both!

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(Syed.Hosain at aeris.net)  wrote:
> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>
>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>
>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>
> Good!
>
> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>
> Z
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims.ML at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ljsims.ml%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.



-- 
Lin Sims

TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

My bad. Is the most recent book on structured publishing with
FrameMaker actually "Structured Publishing from the Desktop: Frame
Technology's Framemaker," published in 1992?

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(Syed.Hosain at aeris.net)  wrote:
> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>
>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>
>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>
> Good!
>
> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>
> Z
>

Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Matt Sullivan]

Yep, the unstructured book is slated for release by early January, both in 
print and in EPUB.

Given the changes from FM8 to FM11, and the usual time period associated with 
FM releases, a structured FM12 book might be the earliest you'd see.




-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Dec 4, 2012, at 8:51 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:

> What Syed said. I've got the Frame 8 book, and it's still incredibly
> useful, but the company I'm now working at is using Frame 10 and is
> making noises about moving all of us into structured, so I want both!
> 
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
> (syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
>> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>> 
>>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>> 
>>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>> 
>> Good!
>> 
>> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
>> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>> 
>> Z
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> 
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims...@gmail.com.
>> 
>> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
>> 
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit 
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ljsims.ml%40gmail.com
>> 
>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lin Sims
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
> 
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> 
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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Matt Sullivan]

Yep, the unstructured book is slated for release by early January, both in 
print and in EPUB.

Given the changes from FM8 to FM11, and the usual time period associated with 
FM releases, a structured FM12 book might be the earliest you'd see.




-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Dec 4, 2012, at 8:51 AM, Lin Sims  wrote:

> What Syed said. I've got the Frame 8 book, and it's still incredibly
> useful, but the company I'm now working at is using Frame 10 and is
> making noises about moving all of us into structured, so I want both!
> 
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
> (Syed.Hosain at aeris.net)  wrote:
>> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>> 
>>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>> 
>>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>> 
>> Good!
>> 
>> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
>> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>> 
>> Z
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> 
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims.ML at gmail.com.
>> 
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>> 
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit 
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ljsims.ml%40gmail.com
>> 
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lin Sims
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as matt at mattrsullivan.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Lin Sims]

What Syed said. I've got the Frame 8 book, and it's still incredibly
useful, but the company I'm now working at is using Frame 10 and is
making noises about moving all of us into structured, so I want both!

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> Robert Lauriston wrote:
>> Ready, shoot, aim!
>>
>> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>>
>> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/
>
> Good!
>
> I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
> updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!
>
> Z
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims...@gmail.com.
>
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RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Robert Lauriston wrote:
> Ready, shoot, aim!
> 
> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
> 
> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/

Good!

I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!

Z

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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Robert Lauriston wrote:
> Ready, shoot, aim!
> 
> Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
> 
> http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/

Good!

I'd also love to see their _unreleased_ Structured FrameMaker 8 ... ideally 
updated for FrameMaker 11, but I'd settle for the older version too!

Z

Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Writer]

>Ready, shoot, aim!
>
>Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>
>http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/

The picture made me laugh.

Nadine
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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Writer]

>Ready, shoot, aim!
>
>Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.
>
>http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/

The picture made me laugh.

Nadine

Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

Ready, shoot, aim!

Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.

http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 3:44 PM, John Sgammato
 wrote:
> Remembering Gillian's original question:
>
> "Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is
> it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party
> scripts, etc."
>
> That's the path I am setting down today. I would very much appreciate
> experiences and warnings form anyone using TCS4 to publish DITA content to
> PDF and help.
> I have a bunch of DITA files, and TCS4 with DITA-FMx. It seems I have
> everything I need to be successful, except knowledge. I can't even find a
> good book on the subject!
___


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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

Ready, shoot, aim!

Scriptorium's updating their book for FM11 but they're not done yet.

http://www.scriptorium.com/books/unstructured-framemaker-11/

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 3:44 PM, John Sgammato
 wrote:
> Remembering Gillian's original question:
>
> "Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is
> it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party
> scripts, etc."
>
> That's the path I am setting down today. I would very much appreciate
> experiences and warnings form anyone using TCS4 to publish DITA content to
> PDF and help.
> I have a bunch of DITA files, and TCS4 with DITA-FMx. It seems I have
> everything I need to be successful, except knowledge. I can't even find a
> good book on the subject!

Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[John Sgammato]

Remembering Gillian's original question: 

"Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc."

That's the path I am setting down today. I would very much appreciate 
experiences and warnings form anyone using TCS4 to publish DITA content to PDF 
and help. 
I have a bunch of DITA files, and TCS4 with DITA-FMx. It seems I have 
everything I need to be successful, except knowledge. I can't even find a good 
book on the subject!

john


On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:45 PM, Liz Fraley  wrote:

> FYI Both Scott Prentice and Maxwell Hoffman will be hosting a workshop at the 
> upcoming TC Camp in January. Want to get a first hand look at these two 
> conversation threads in a workshop setting? Come to TC Camp:  
> http://www.tccamp.org
> 
> Liz
> 
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Gillian Flato  
> wrote:
> Thanks, Scott!
> 
>  
> 
> -Gillian
> 
>  
> 
> From: Scott Prentice [mailto:s...@leximation.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:27 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Gillian Flato
> Subject: Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Gillian...
> 
> As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA 
> authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it to 
> other DITA tools.
> 
> The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that in 
> addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution for 
> both PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools will likely bundle 
> the DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work quite well, if you've got 
> XSLT developers at your disposal. The HTML-based formats aren't too much work 
> to customize, but if PDF is an important deliverable, you're in for a lot of 
> time and money to get XSL-FO styleheets built that would be something you'd 
> deliver to your customers.
> 
> Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online Help 
> from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that come close 
> to what you can get from Frame.
> 
> Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding XML/XSL. 
> Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring experience with Frame 
> over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from Frame (via DITA-FMx), and 
> use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, and EPUB). Samples here ..
> 
> http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/
> 
> If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out DITA-FMx, 
> which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well as makes 
> publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the default options 
> ..
> 
> http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...scott
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Prentice
> Leximation, Inc.
> www.leximation.com
> +1.415.485.1892
>  
>  
> On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:
> 
> I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
> v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that 
> contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don’t have to go to third-party solutions to 
> obtain the necessary pieces.
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is 
> it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
> scripts, etc.
> 
>  
> 
> Thank You,
> 
>  
> 
> Gillian Flato
> 
> Senior Content Developer
> 
> Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
> 
> gillian.fl...@nexenta.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as calto...@gmail.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/caltonia%40gmail.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as john.sgamm...@actifio.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
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> 
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers

TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[John Sgammato]

Remembering Gillian's original question: 

"Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc."

That's the path I am setting down today. I would very much appreciate 
experiences and warnings form anyone using TCS4 to publish DITA content to PDF 
and help. 
I have a bunch of DITA files, and TCS4 with DITA-FMx. It seems I have 
everything I need to be successful, except knowledge. I can't even find a good 
book on the subject!

john


On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:45 PM, Liz Fraley  wrote:

> FYI Both Scott Prentice and Maxwell Hoffman will be hosting a workshop at the 
> upcoming TC Camp in January. Want to get a first hand look at these two 
> conversation threads in a workshop setting? Come to TC Camp:  
> http://www.tccamp.org
> 
> Liz
> 
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Gillian Flato  
> wrote:
> Thanks, Scott!
> 
>  
> 
> -Gillian
> 
>  
> 
> From: Scott Prentice [mailto:sp10 at leximation.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:27 AM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com; Gillian Flato
> Subject: Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Gillian...
> 
> As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA 
> authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it to 
> other DITA tools.
> 
> The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that in 
> addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution for 
> both PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools will likely bundle 
> the DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work quite well, if you've got 
> XSLT developers at your disposal. The HTML-based formats aren't too much work 
> to customize, but if PDF is an important deliverable, you're in for a lot of 
> time and money to get XSL-FO styleheets built that would be something you'd 
> deliver to your customers.
> 
> Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online Help 
> from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that come close 
> to what you can get from Frame.
> 
> Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding XML/XSL. 
> Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring experience with Frame 
> over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from Frame (via DITA-FMx), and 
> use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, and EPUB). Samples here ..
> 
> http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/
> 
> If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out DITA-FMx, 
> which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well as makes 
> publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the default options 
> ..
> 
> http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...scott
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Prentice
> Leximation, Inc.
> www.leximation.com
> +1.415.485.1892
>  
>  
> On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:
> 
> I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
> v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that 
> contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don?t have to go to third-party solutions to 
> obtain the necessary pieces.
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is 
> it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
> scripts, etc.
> 
>  
> 
> Thank You,
> 
>  
> 
> Gillian Flato
> 
> Senior Content Developer
> 
> Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
> 
> Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as caltonia at gmail.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/caltonia%40gmail.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as john.sgammato at actifio.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> or visit 
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> 
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Liz Fraley]

FYI Both Scott Prentice and Maxwell Hoffman will be hosting a workshop at
the upcoming TC Camp in January. Want to get a first hand look at these two
conversation threads in a workshop setting? Come to TC Camp:
http://www.tccamp.org

Liz

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:

>  Thanks, Scott!
>
> ** **
>
> -Gillian
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Scott Prentice [mailto:s...@leximation.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:27 AM
> *To:* framers@lists.frameusers.com; Gillian Flato
> *Subject:* Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Gillian...
>
> As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA
> authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it to
> other DITA tools.
>
> The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that
> in addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution
> for both PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools will likely
> bundle the DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work quite well, if
> you've got XSLT developers at your disposal. The HTML-based formats aren't
> too much work to customize, but if PDF is an important deliverable, you're
> in for a lot of time and money to get XSL-FO styleheets built that would be
> something you'd deliver to your customers.
>
> Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online
> Help from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that
> come close to what you can get from Frame.
>
> Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding XML/XSL.
> Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring experience with
> Frame over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from Frame (via
> DITA-FMx), and use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, and EPUB).
> Samples here ..
>
> http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/
>
> If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out DITA-FMx,
> which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well as makes
> publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the default
> options ..
>
> http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/
>
> Cheers,
>
> ...scott
>
>
> 
>
> Scott Prentice
>
> Leximation, Inc.
>
> www.leximation.com
>
> +1.415.485.1892
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:
>
> I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on
> TCS v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that
> contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don’t have to go to third-party solutions
> to obtain the necessary pieces.
>
>  
>
> Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it?
> Is it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party
> scripts, etc.
>
>  
>
> *Thank You,*
>
> * *
>
> *Gillian Flato*
>
> *Senior Content Developer*
>
> *Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*
>
> *gillian.fl...@nexenta.com*
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as calto...@gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/caltonia%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
___


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http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Liz Fraley]

FYI Both Scott Prentice and Maxwell Hoffman will be hosting a workshop at
the upcoming TC Camp in January. Want to get a first hand look at these two
conversation threads in a workshop setting? Come to TC Camp:
http://www.tccamp.org

Liz

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:

>  Thanks, Scott!
>
> ** **
>
> -Gillian
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Scott Prentice [mailto:sp10 at leximation.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:27 AM
> *To:* framers at lists.frameusers.com; Gillian Flato
> *Subject:* Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Gillian...
>
> As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA
> authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it to
> other DITA tools.
>
> The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that
> in addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution
> for both PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools will likely
> bundle the DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work quite well, if
> you've got XSLT developers at your disposal. The HTML-based formats aren't
> too much work to customize, but if PDF is an important deliverable, you're
> in for a lot of time and money to get XSL-FO styleheets built that would be
> something you'd deliver to your customers.
>
> Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online
> Help from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that
> come close to what you can get from Frame.
>
> Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding XML/XSL.
> Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring experience with
> Frame over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from Frame (via
> DITA-FMx), and use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, and EPUB).
> Samples here ..
>
> http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/
>
> If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out DITA-FMx,
> which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well as makes
> publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the default
> options ..
>
> http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/
>
> Cheers,
>
> ...scott
>
>
> 
>
> Scott Prentice
>
> Leximation, Inc.
>
> www.leximation.com
>
> +1.415.485.1892
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:
>
> I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on
> TCS v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that
> contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don?t have to go to third-party solutions
> to obtain the necessary pieces.
>
>  
>
> Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it?
> Is it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party
> scripts, etc.
>
>  
>
> *Thank You,*
>
> * *
>
> *Gillian Flato*
>
> *Senior Content Developer*
>
> *Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*
>
> *Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com*
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as caltonia at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/caltonia%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
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RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

Thanks, Scott!

-Gillian

From: Scott Prentice [mailto:s...@leximation.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:27 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Gillian Flato
Subject: Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

Hi Gillian...

As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA 
authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it to 
other DITA tools.

The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that in 
addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution for both 
PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools will likely bundle the 
DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work quite well, if you've got XSLT 
developers at your disposal. The HTML-based formats aren't too much work to 
customize, but if PDF is an important deliverable, you're in for a lot of time 
and money to get XSL-FO styleheets built that would be something you'd deliver 
to your customers.

Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online Help 
from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that come close 
to what you can get from Frame.

Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding XML/XSL. 
Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring experience with Frame 
over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from Frame (via DITA-FMx), and 
use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, and EPUB). Samples here ..

http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/

If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out DITA-FMx, 
which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well as makes 
publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the default options ..

http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/

Cheers,

...scott



Scott Prentice

Leximation, Inc.

www.leximation.com<http://www.leximation.com>

+1.415.485.1892




On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:
I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
gillian.fl...@nexenta.com<mailto:gillian.fl...@nexenta.com>






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Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

FrameMaker 10 comes with DTDs, EDDs, and templates, but those did not
give me enough to go on to figure out how to create a project. The
documentation was no help, nor were the resources people on the
Structured FrameMaker forum pointed me to adequate:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4094654

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Roger Shuttleworth  wrote:
> ... FrameMaker does come with DTDs, EDDs, and templates provided, so you can
> immediately create, save, and open DITA XML documents. You'd want to tweak
> the templates, of course, and it helps if you are familiar with EDDs. ...
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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

Thanks, Scott!

-Gillian

From: Scott Prentice [mailto:s...@leximation.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:27 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com; Gillian Flato
Subject: Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

Hi Gillian...

As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA 
authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it to 
other DITA tools.

The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that in 
addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution for both 
PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools will likely bundle the 
DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work quite well, if you've got XSLT 
developers at your disposal. The HTML-based formats aren't too much work to 
customize, but if PDF is an important deliverable, you're in for a lot of time 
and money to get XSL-FO styleheets built that would be something you'd deliver 
to your customers.

Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online Help 
from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that come close 
to what you can get from Frame.

Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding XML/XSL. 
Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring experience with Frame 
over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from Frame (via DITA-FMx), and 
use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, and EPUB). Samples here ..

http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/

If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out DITA-FMx, 
which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well as makes 
publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the default options ..

http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/

Cheers,

...scott



Scott Prentice

Leximation, Inc.

www.leximation.com<http://www.leximation.com>

+1.415.485.1892




On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:
I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com<mailto:Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com>






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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

Thanks Craig. Appreciate the response.

-Gillian

From: Craig Ede [mailto:craig...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:50 AM
To: Gillian Flato; framers
Subject: RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

I am currently working a contract for a company where we are writing DITA files 
using FM11 (not TCS 4). Producing DITA using FM 11 is fairly easy, but there as 
some caveats. The built in EDDs, etc. allow producing more-or-less adequate PDF 
using SaveAsPDF from ditamap files. To get TOCs, covers and other nicities, you 
have to save the ditamap as a composite FM file and then add the additional 
files into a FM book containing the composite file. Exactly how to massage 
paragraph formats to get the results you desire withing the composite FM file 
is not transparent. Structured documents are more difficult to change the 
formats in since the EDD is the source of that information.  (Any tips on how 
to get the notes that are warnings and cautions will be accepted with much 
happiness from anyone reading this.)

Another avenue to PDF (as well as HTMLHELP, javaHelp and other formats) comes 
through using the DITA Open Toolkit. This is now easy to install so you get 
what you need and the results are great for many of the formats. Most of the 
help systems offered come through without muss or fuss except for an occasional 
unrecognized character that can cause problems but is easily fixed). My boss 
was astounded at the ease of producing HTMLHelp in this way.

The DITAOpenToolkit PDF is equally easy to produce from a ditamap, but, of 
course, has a different look than the SaveAsPDF from FM11. This is because it 
uses CSS templates to format the output. The result is a terrible cover sheet, 
a great TOC, nice formatting of Warnings and the like. The regular notes icon 
is terrible; a finger pointing to the note that seems totally out of place [it 
reminds me of the similar character used by Walt Kelly in the world ballons for 
the P.T. Bridgeport character from POGO]. Wading into the OpenToolkits 
templates to modify the CSS is daughting, but doable. There are tips on this 
that pop up if you search the web, but, again, it is not particularly 
straightforward. Be sure to save the original copy of each template before 
modifying.

My experience with DITA is that it is great at reducing duplication in manuals, 
aids in breaking apart tasks that actually combined multiple tasks in one (thus 
making them both clearer and more reusable), and helps to identify material in 
manuals that just got in there because the designers of a machine were 
enamoured of explaining how the pieces of it work (even if that information is 
useless for any operator or maintainance task). I love it! However, I would 
take the statement that TCS 4 offers a  single out-of-the-box solution with a 
big grain of salt.

I am going to send a separate posting with some DITA codeview interface 
complaints for Adobe to consider as areas where improvement is desired (at 
least from this user).

Thanks.

Craig Ede

From: Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com<mailto:gillian.fl...@nexenta.com>
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:08:51 +
I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com<mailto:Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com>




___ You are currently subscribed to 
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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

Thanks for the response.

-Gillian

From: Roger Shuttleworth [mailto:shutti...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:10 AM
To: Gillian Flato
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

Hello Gillian

Regarding your question about TCS4 being the "complete solution" for DITA. You 
have to analyze that statement rather carefully and remember it's from the 
evangelist! The comments below are from a TCS4 user.

First, several of the components of TCS4 have nothing at all to do with DITA - 
Captivate, Illustrator, RoboScreen Capture, and Acrobat. That basically leaves 
FrameMaker and RoboHelp as candidates. So right there you ask yourself: would 
buying just FM and RH be better and/or cheaper?

FrameMaker does come with DTDs, EDDs, and templates provided, so you can 
immediately create, save, and open DITA XML documents. You'd want to tweak the 
templates, of course, and it helps if you are familiar with EDDs. As an XML 
editor, FM11 in my view is a big step forward from 9 and 10, but I doubt it can 
compete with oXygen or xMetal (I have not used the latter). The ability to 
output fine PDF is a key difference in favour of FM. There are some 
deficiencies in FM, which Scott Prentice has identified in his comparison at 
http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/featurecomparison.php (that comparison covers 
FM10 but not 11, but it's still applicable). You may want to supplement FM11 
with DITA-FMx, though there are pros and cons for that too.

Moving on to RoboHelp: RH was fundamentally designed as an HTML authoring tool. 
Integration with FrameMaker has been cobbled into it, and it works on book 
files, not ditamaps. So you have to create your book from a ditamap in FM, then 
open the book in RH. RoboHelp can also process ditamaps directly, but it rather 
depends on the day of the week and how you hold your mouth. I sometimes have a 
problem with the mouth part. DITA support in RH has a lng way to go, and 
the glowing reports I read of DITA support in WebWorks (not cheap) give me the 
impression that is probably the better tool.

Having said all that, yes, you can use TCS4 to output DITA to PDF and HTML (we 
do it). If you don't want impressive PDF, FM is inferior to the alternatives 
you mention. If you're happy to just have FM and forgo the other TCS4 
components, there are other tools you could use with FM alone to create output 
from DITA files: WebWorks, as mentioned, DITA2Go, etc.

Hope this helps alleviate some of the marketing overhead!

Roger Shuttleworth
London, Canada
On 26/11/2012 2:08 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:
I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com<mailto:Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com>







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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

FrameMaker 10 comes with DTDs, EDDs, and templates, but those did not
give me enough to go on to figure out how to create a project. The
documentation was no help, nor were the resources people on the
Structured FrameMaker forum pointed me to adequate:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4094654

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Roger Shuttleworth  
wrote:
> ... FrameMaker does come with DTDs, EDDs, and templates provided, so you can
> immediately create, save, and open DITA XML documents. You'd want to tweak
> the templates, of course, and it helps if you are familiar with EDDs. ...

Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

When I evaluated Oxygen XML, it seemed like a full-featured
single-source help authoring tool much like Madcap Flare, except using
DITA as its source format. Out-of-the-box web help and PDF output
seemed of professional quality to me. I could have been productive
immediately.

TCS 3.5 / FrameMaker 10, on the other hand, I was unable to evaluate
(even though I'm fairly expert in unstructured FrameMaker) due to the
lack of documentation and samples for doing DITA with structured
FrameMaker. I know from reading other people's reports that it can be
used to author DITA and DocBook projects, but figuring out how to do
it would have required some sort of third-party consulting, training,
or add-ons. Maybe TCS 4 / FrameMaker 11 has better samples and
documentation, but I looked for such improvements when it came out and
did not find them.

Another weakness of TCS: all else being equal, I would prefer not to
create any new projects involving RoboHelp. I've found it inflexible
and buggy, and had to use MIF2Go for some output formats RoboHelp
could not generate.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Scott Prentice  wrote:
> ... The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that 
> in
> addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution for
> both PDF and various online formats. ...
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RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

Thanks Craig. Appreciate the response.

-Gillian

From: Craig Ede [mailto:craig...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:50 AM
To: Gillian Flato; framers
Subject: RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

I am currently working a contract for a company where we are writing DITA files 
using FM11 (not TCS 4). Producing DITA using FM 11 is fairly easy, but there as 
some caveats. The built in EDDs, etc. allow producing more-or-less adequate PDF 
using SaveAsPDF from ditamap files. To get TOCs, covers and other nicities, you 
have to save the ditamap as a composite FM file and then add the additional 
files into a FM book containing the composite file. Exactly how to massage 
paragraph formats to get the results you desire withing the composite FM file 
is not transparent. Structured documents are more difficult to change the 
formats in since the EDD is the source of that information.  (Any tips on how 
to get the notes that are warnings and cautions will be accepted with much 
happiness from anyone reading this.)

Another avenue to PDF (as well as HTMLHELP, javaHelp and other formats) comes 
through using the DITA Open Toolkit. This is now easy to install so you get 
what you need and the results are great for many of the formats. Most of the 
help systems offered come through without muss or fuss except for an occasional 
unrecognized character that can cause problems but is easily fixed). My boss 
was astounded at the ease of producing HTMLHelp in this way.

The DITAOpenToolkit PDF is equally easy to produce from a ditamap, but, of 
course, has a different look than the SaveAsPDF from FM11. This is because it 
uses CSS templates to format the output. The result is a terrible cover sheet, 
a great TOC, nice formatting of Warnings and the like. The regular notes icon 
is terrible; a finger pointing to the note that seems totally out of place [it 
reminds me of the similar character used by Walt Kelly in the world ballons for 
the P.T. Bridgeport character from POGO]. Wading into the OpenToolkits 
templates to modify the CSS is daughting, but doable. There are tips on this 
that pop up if you search the web, but, again, it is not particularly 
straightforward. Be sure to save the original copy of each template before 
modifying.

My experience with DITA is that it is great at reducing duplication in manuals, 
aids in breaking apart tasks that actually combined multiple tasks in one (thus 
making them both clearer and more reusable), and helps to identify material in 
manuals that just got in there because the designers of a machine were 
enamoured of explaining how the pieces of it work (even if that information is 
useless for any operator or maintainance task). I love it! However, I would 
take the statement that TCS 4 offers a  single out-of-the-box solution with a 
big grain of salt.

I am going to send a separate posting with some DITA codeview interface 
complaints for Adobe to consider as areas where improvement is desired (at 
least from this user).

Thanks.

Craig Ede

From: gillian.fl...@nexenta.com<mailto:gillian.fl...@nexenta.com>
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:08:51 +
I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
gillian.fl...@nexenta.com<mailto:gillian.fl...@nexenta.com>




___ You are currently subscribed to 
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RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

Thanks for the response.

-Gillian

From: Roger Shuttleworth [mailto:shutti...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:10 AM
To: Gillian Flato
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

Hello Gillian

Regarding your question about TCS4 being the "complete solution" for DITA. You 
have to analyze that statement rather carefully and remember it's from the 
evangelist! The comments below are from a TCS4 user.

First, several of the components of TCS4 have nothing at all to do with DITA - 
Captivate, Illustrator, RoboScreen Capture, and Acrobat. That basically leaves 
FrameMaker and RoboHelp as candidates. So right there you ask yourself: would 
buying just FM and RH be better and/or cheaper?

FrameMaker does come with DTDs, EDDs, and templates provided, so you can 
immediately create, save, and open DITA XML documents. You'd want to tweak the 
templates, of course, and it helps if you are familiar with EDDs. As an XML 
editor, FM11 in my view is a big step forward from 9 and 10, but I doubt it can 
compete with oXygen or xMetal (I have not used the latter). The ability to 
output fine PDF is a key difference in favour of FM. There are some 
deficiencies in FM, which Scott Prentice has identified in his comparison at 
http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/featurecomparison.php (that comparison covers 
FM10 but not 11, but it's still applicable). You may want to supplement FM11 
with DITA-FMx, though there are pros and cons for that too.

Moving on to RoboHelp: RH was fundamentally designed as an HTML authoring tool. 
Integration with FrameMaker has been cobbled into it, and it works on book 
files, not ditamaps. So you have to create your book from a ditamap in FM, then 
open the book in RH. RoboHelp can also process ditamaps directly, but it rather 
depends on the day of the week and how you hold your mouth. I sometimes have a 
problem with the mouth part. DITA support in RH has a lng way to go, and 
the glowing reports I read of DITA support in WebWorks (not cheap) give me the 
impression that is probably the better tool.

Having said all that, yes, you can use TCS4 to output DITA to PDF and HTML (we 
do it). If you don't want impressive PDF, FM is inferior to the alternatives 
you mention. If you're happy to just have FM and forgo the other TCS4 
components, there are other tools you could use with FM alone to create output 
from DITA files: WebWorks, as mentioned, DITA2Go, etc.

Hope this helps alleviate some of the marketing overhead!

Roger Shuttleworth
London, Canada
On 26/11/2012 2:08 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:
I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
gillian.fl...@nexenta.com<mailto:gillian.fl...@nexenta.com>







___





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RE: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Craig Ede]

I am currently working a contract for a company where we are writing DITA files 
using FM11 (not TCS 4). Producing DITA using FM 11 is fairly easy, but there as 
some caveats. The built in EDDs, etc. allow producing more-or-less adequate PDF 
using SaveAsPDF from ditamap files. To get TOCs, covers and other nicities, you 
have to save the ditamap as a composite FM file and then add the additional 
files into a FM book containing the composite file. Exactly how to massage 
paragraph formats to get the results you desire withing the composite FM file 
is not transparent. Structured documents are more difficult to change the 
formats in since the EDD is the source of that information.  (Any tips on how 
to get the notes that are warnings and cautions will be accepted with much 
happiness from anyone reading this.)  Another avenue to PDF (as well as 
HTMLHELP, javaHelp and other formats) comes through using the DITA Open 
Toolkit. This is now easy to install so you get what you need and the results 
are great for many of the formats. Most of the help systems offered come 
through without muss or fuss except for an occasional unrecognized character 
that can cause problems but is easily fixed). My boss was astounded at the ease 
of producing HTMLHelp in this way. The DITAOpenToolkit PDF is equally easy to 
produce from a ditamap, but, of course, has a different look than the SaveAsPDF 
from FM11. This is because it uses CSS templates to format the output. The 
result is a terrible cover sheet, a great TOC, nice formatting of Warnings and 
the like. The regular notes icon is terrible; a finger pointing to the note 
that seems totally out of place [it reminds me of the similar character used by 
Walt Kelly in the world ballons for the P.T. Bridgeport character from POGO]. 
Wading into the OpenToolkits templates to modify the CSS is daughting, but 
doable. There are tips on this that pop up if you search the web, but, again, 
it is not particularly straightforward. Be sure to save the original copy of 
each template before modifying. My experience with DITA is that it is great at 
reducing duplication in manuals, aids in breaking apart tasks that actually 
combined multiple tasks in one (thus making them both clearer and more 
reusable), and helps to identify material in manuals that just got in there 
because the designers of a machine were enamoured of explaining how the pieces 
of it work (even if that information is useless for any operator or 
maintainance task). I love it! However, I would take the statement that TCS 4 
offers a  single out-of-the-box solution with a big grain of salt. I am going 
to send a separate posting with some DITA codeview interface complaints for 
Adobe to consider as areas where improvement is desired (at least from this 
user). Thanks. Craig EdeFrom: gillian.fl...@nexenta.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:08:51 +









I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don’t have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the
 necessary pieces.
 
Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.
 
Thank You,
 
Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
gillian.fl...@nexenta.com
 
 
 




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Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Roger Shuttleworth]

Hello Gillian

Regarding your question about TCS4 being the "complete solution" for 
DITA. You have to analyze that statement rather carefully and remember 
it's from the evangelist! The comments below are from a TCS4 user.


First, several of the components of TCS4 have nothing at all to do with 
DITA - Captivate, Illustrator, RoboScreen Capture, and Acrobat. That 
basically leaves FrameMaker and RoboHelp as candidates. So right there 
you ask yourself: would buying just FM and RH be better and/or cheaper?


FrameMaker does come with DTDs, EDDs, and templates provided, so you can 
immediately create, save, and open DITA XML documents. You'd want to 
tweak the templates, of course, and it helps if you are familiar with 
EDDs. As an XML editor, FM11 in my view is a big step forward from 9 and 
10, but I doubt it can compete with oXygen or xMetal (I have not used 
the latter). The ability to output fine PDF is a key difference in 
favour of FM. There are some deficiencies in FM, which Scott Prentice 
has identified in his comparison at 
http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/featurecomparison.php (that comparison 
covers FM10 but not 11, but it's still applicable). You may want to 
supplement FM11 with DITA-FMx, though there are pros and cons for that too.


Moving on to RoboHelp: RH was fundamentally designed as an HTML 
authoring tool. Integration with FrameMaker has been cobbled into it, 
and it works on book files, not ditamaps. So you have to create your 
book from a ditamap in FM, then open the book in RH. RoboHelp can also 
process ditamaps directly, but it rather depends on the day of the week 
and how you hold your mouth. I sometimes have a problem with the mouth 
part. DITA support in RH has a lng way to go, and the glowing 
reports I read of DITA support in WebWorks (not cheap) give me the 
impression that is probably the better tool.


Having said all that, yes, you can use TCS4 to output DITA to PDF and 
HTML (we do it). If you don't want impressive PDF, FM is inferior to the 
alternatives you mention. If you're happy to just have FM and forgo the 
other TCS4 components, there are other tools you could use with FM alone 
to create output from DITA files: WebWorks, as mentioned, DITA2Go, etc.


Hope this helps alleviate some of the marketing overhead!

Roger Shuttleworth
London, Canada

On 26/11/2012 2:08 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:


I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe 
on TCS v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA 
solution that contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to 
third-party solutions to obtain the necessary pieces.


Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking 
it? Is it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen 
with 3^rd -party scripts, etc.


*Thank You,*

**

*Gillian Flato*

*Senior Content Developer*

*Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*

*gillian.fl...@nexenta.com*



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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Robert Lauriston]

When I evaluated Oxygen XML, it seemed like a full-featured
single-source help authoring tool much like Madcap Flare, except using
DITA as its source format. Out-of-the-box web help and PDF output
seemed of professional quality to me. I could have been productive
immediately.

TCS 3.5 / FrameMaker 10, on the other hand, I was unable to evaluate
(even though I'm fairly expert in unstructured FrameMaker) due to the
lack of documentation and samples for doing DITA with structured
FrameMaker. I know from reading other people's reports that it can be
used to author DITA and DocBook projects, but figuring out how to do
it would have required some sort of third-party consulting, training,
or add-ons. Maybe TCS 4 / FrameMaker 11 has better samples and
documentation, but I looked for such improvements when it came out and
did not find them.

Another weakness of TCS: all else being equal, I would prefer not to
create any new projects involving RoboHelp. I've found it inflexible
and buggy, and had to use MIF2Go for some output formats RoboHelp
could not generate.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Scott Prentice  wrote:
> ... The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is that 
> in
> addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing solution for
> both PDF and various online formats. ...

Re: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Scott Prentice]

Hi Gillian...

As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA 
authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it 
to other DITA tools.


The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is 
that in addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing 
solution for both PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools 
will likely bundle the DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work 
quite well, if you've got XSLT developers at your disposal. The 
HTML-based formats aren't too much work to customize, but if PDF is an 
important deliverable, you're in for a lot of time and money to get 
XSL-FO styleheets built that would be something you'd deliver to your 
customers.


Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online 
Help from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that 
come close to what you can get from Frame.


Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding 
XML/XSL. Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring 
experience with Frame over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from 
Frame (via DITA-FMx), and use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, 
and EPUB). Samples here ..


http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/

If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out 
DITA-FMx, which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well 
as makes publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the 
default options ..


http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/

Cheers,

...scott

Scott Prentice
Leximation, Inc.
www.leximation.com
+1.415.485.1892


On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:


I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe 
on TCS v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA 
solution that contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to 
third-party solutions to obtain the necessary pieces.


Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking 
it? Is it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen 
with 3^rd -party scripts, etc.


*Thank You,*

**

*Gillian Flato*

*Senior Content Developer*

*Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*

*gillian.fl...@nexenta.com*





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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Scott Prentice]

Hi Gillian...

As I'm sure you're aware, I'm a big proponent of using Frame for DITA 
authoring, but I do try to remain reasonably objective when comparing it 
to other DITA tools.

The big thing that sets TCS apart from other DITA authoring tools is 
that in addition to authoring, it provides a more complete publishing 
solution for both PDF and various online formats. Other authoring tools 
will likely bundle the DITA-OT as the publishing tool, which can work 
quite well, if you've got XSLT developers at your disposal. The 
HTML-based formats aren't too much work to customize, but if PDF is an 
important deliverable, you're in for a lot of time and money to get 
XSL-FO styleheets built that would be something you'd deliver to your 
customers.

Because TCS includes RoboHelp, you'll find it much easier to get online 
Help from DITA, and you'll be hard-pressed to get PDFs from the OT that 
come close to what you can get from Frame.

Personally, I use Frame for authoring DITA and Oxygen for coding 
XML/XSL. Oxygen is a great tool, but I much prefer the authoring 
experience with Frame over any other tool out there. I publish PDFs from 
Frame (via DITA-FMx), and use the OT for my online outputs (HTML, CHM, 
and EPUB). Samples here ..

 http://docs.leximation.com/dita-fmx/1.1/

If you do decide to use Frame/TCS for DITA, you should check out 
DITA-FMx, which provides numerous additional authoring features, as well 
as makes publishing complete and PDF-ready books much easier than the 
default options ..

 http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/

Cheers,

...scott

Scott Prentice
Leximation, Inc.
www.leximation.com
+1.415.485.1892


On 11/26/12 11:08 AM, Gillian Flato wrote:
>
> I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe 
> on TCS v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA 
> solution that contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to 
> third-party solutions to obtain the necessary pieces.
>
> Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking 
> it? Is it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen 
> with 3^rd -party scripts, etc.
>
> *Thank You,*
>
> **
>
> *Gillian Flato*
>
> *Senior Content Developer*
>
> *Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*
>
> *Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com*
>
>
>

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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Craig Ede]

I am currently working a contract for a company where we are writing DITA files 
using FM11 (not TCS 4). Producing DITA using FM 11 is fairly easy, but there as 
some caveats. The built in EDDs, etc. allow producing more-or-less adequate PDF 
using SaveAsPDF from ditamap files. To get TOCs, covers and other nicities, you 
have to save the ditamap as a composite FM file and then add the additional 
files into a FM book containing the composite file. Exactly how to massage 
paragraph formats to get the results you desire withing the composite FM file 
is not transparent. Structured documents are more difficult to change the 
formats in since the EDD is the source of that information.  (Any tips on how 
to get the notes that are warnings and cautions will be accepted with much 
happiness from anyone reading this.)  Another avenue to PDF (as well as 
HTMLHELP, javaHelp and other formats) comes through using the DITA Open 
Toolkit. This is now easy to install so you get what you need and the results 
are great for many of the formats. Most of the help systems offered come 
through without muss or fuss except for an occasional unrecognized character 
that can cause problems but is easily fixed). My boss was astounded at the ease 
of producing HTMLHelp in this way. The DITAOpenToolkit PDF is equally easy to 
produce from a ditamap, but, of course, has a different look than the SaveAsPDF 
from FM11. This is because it uses CSS templates to format the output. The 
result is a terrible cover sheet, a great TOC, nice formatting of Warnings and 
the like. The regular notes icon is terrible; a finger pointing to the note 
that seems totally out of place [it reminds me of the similar character used by 
Walt Kelly in the world ballons for the P.T. Bridgeport character from POGO]. 
Wading into the OpenToolkits templates to modify the CSS is daughting, but 
doable. There are tips on this that pop up if you search the web, but, again, 
it is not particularly straightforward. Be sure to save the original copy of 
each template before modifying. My experience with DITA is that it is great at 
reducing duplication in manuals, aids in breaking apart tasks that actually 
combined multiple tasks in one (thus making them both clearer and more 
reusable), and helps to identify material in manuals that just got in there 
because the designers of a machine were enamoured of explaining how the pieces 
of it work (even if that information is useless for any operator or 
maintainance task). I love it! However, I would take the statement that TCS 4 
offers a  single out-of-the-box solution with a big grain of salt. I am going 
to send a separate posting with some DITA codeview interface complaints for 
Adobe to consider as areas where improvement is desired (at least from this 
user). Thanks. Craig EdeFrom: Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:08:51 +









I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don?t have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the
 necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com







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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Roger Shuttleworth]

Hello Gillian

Regarding your question about TCS4 being the "complete solution" for 
DITA. You have to analyze that statement rather carefully and remember 
it's from the evangelist! The comments below are from a TCS4 user.

First, several of the components of TCS4 have nothing at all to do with 
DITA - Captivate, Illustrator, RoboScreen Capture, and Acrobat. That 
basically leaves FrameMaker and RoboHelp as candidates. So right there 
you ask yourself: would buying just FM and RH be better and/or cheaper?

FrameMaker does come with DTDs, EDDs, and templates provided, so you can 
immediately create, save, and open DITA XML documents. You'd want to 
tweak the templates, of course, and it helps if you are familiar with 
EDDs. As an XML editor, FM11 in my view is a big step forward from 9 and 
10, but I doubt it can compete with oXygen or xMetal (I have not used 
the latter). The ability to output fine PDF is a key difference in 
favour of FM. There are some deficiencies in FM, which Scott Prentice 
has identified in his comparison at 
http://leximation.com/dita-fmx/featurecomparison.php (that comparison 
covers FM10 but not 11, but it's still applicable). You may want to 
supplement FM11 with DITA-FMx, though there are pros and cons for that too.

Moving on to RoboHelp: RH was fundamentally designed as an HTML 
authoring tool. Integration with FrameMaker has been cobbled into it, 
and it works on book files, not ditamaps. So you have to create your 
book from a ditamap in FM, then open the book in RH. RoboHelp can also 
process ditamaps directly, but it rather depends on the day of the week 
and how you hold your mouth. I sometimes have a problem with the mouth 
part. DITA support in RH has a lng way to go, and the glowing 
reports I read of DITA support in WebWorks (not cheap) give me the 
impression that is probably the better tool.

Having said all that, yes, you can use TCS4 to output DITA to PDF and 
HTML (we do it). If you don't want impressive PDF, FM is inferior to the 
alternatives you mention. If you're happy to just have FM and forgo the 
other TCS4 components, there are other tools you could use with FM alone 
to create output from DITA files: WebWorks, as mentioned, DITA2Go, etc.

Hope this helps alleviate some of the marketing overhead!

Roger Shuttleworth
London, Canada

On 26/11/2012 2:08 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:
>
> I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe 
> on TCS v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA 
> solution that contains DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to 
> third-party solutions to obtain the necessary pieces.
>
> Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking 
> it? Is it better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen 
> with 3^rd -party scripts, etc.
>
> *Thank You,*
>
> **
>
> *Gillian Flato*
>
> *Senior Content Developer*
>
> *Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*
>
> *Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com*
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as shuttie27 at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shuttie27%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
gillian.fl...@nexenta.com



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http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

TCS 4 as DITA out-of-the-box solution

[Gillian Flato]

I went to a presentation last week given by Maxwell Hoffman from Adobe on TCS 
v4.x. He stated that TCS v4.x is an out-of-the-box DITA solution that contains 
DTDs, EDDs, etc, so you don't have to go to third-party solutions to obtain the 
necessary pieces.

Has anyone used TCS v4.x as a complete DITA solution? Are you liking it? Is it 
better or worse than using, for example, XMetal or Oxygen with 3rd-party 
scripts, etc.

Thank You,

Gillian Flato
Senior Content Developer
Skype: Gillian.B.Flato
Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com



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