TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell...hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?) then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the admin mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. -Lise On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. I always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all responded that they had good English and were experts with MS Word. They wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the edits from their bosses, so they knew how to handle document review. We had to start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a minimal requirement with no equivalency allowed. Rene Keith Smyth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As in So easy a Caveman could do it? I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone totally clueless thinking all we do is type. Had a gal at one of our square dances from our church in 1983 tell me that while she is a store clerk, she is going to become a tech writer, because if you can do it, anyone can do it. And she went to an interview. Never heard from her again. You think that's insulting? When we had a req open for another tech writer in January, we had people from our shipping department and the warehouse coming to us and asking us if they could apply for the job. As if Tech Writing was so easy, someone with shipping or warehouse experience could do it. Thank you, -Gillian -- Keith L. Smyth President Smyth Consulting - Religion was in charge during the dark ages. - Technical Documentation Consultant ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Rene L. Stephenson eNovative Solutions, Inc. Business Phone: 678-513-0051 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit
Re: TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
Hi All, I agree with Diane. I have encountered candidates with english degrees and certifications in english who have failed badly when it comes to the writing piece and working on the relevant documentation tools. Regards, Debashish On 5/16/07, Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell...hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?) then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the admin mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. -Lise On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. I always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all responded that they had good English and were experts with MS Word. They wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the edits from their bosses, so they knew how to handle document review. We had to start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a minimal requirement with no equivalency allowed. Rene Keith Smyth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As in So easy a Caveman could do it? I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone totally clueless thinking all we do is type. Had a gal at one of our square dances from our church in 1983 tell me that while she is a store clerk, she is going to become a tech writer, because if you can do it, anyone can do it. And she went to an interview. Never heard from her again. You think that's insulting? When we had a req open for another tech writer in January, we had people from our shipping department and the warehouse coming to us and asking us if they could apply for the job. As if Tech Writing was so easy, someone with shipping or warehouse experience could do it. Thank you, -Gillian -- Keith L. Smyth President Smyth Consulting - Religion was in charge during the dark ages. - Technical Documentation Consultant ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Rene L. Stephenson eNovative Solutions, Inc. Business Phone: 678-513-0051 Email: [EMAIL
Re: TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
Those are good points. Rene Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell...hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?) then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the admin mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. -Lise On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson wrote: I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. I always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all responded that they had good English and were experts with MS Word. They wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the edits from their bosses, so they knew how to handle document review. We had to start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a minimal requirement with no equivalency allowed. Rene Keith Smyth wrote: As in So easy a Caveman could do it? I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone totally clueless thinking all we do is type. Had a gal at one of our square dances from our church in 1983 tell me that while she is a store clerk, she is going to become a tech writer, because if you can do it, anyone can do it. And she went to an interview. Never heard from her again. You think that's insulting? When we had a req open for another tech writer in January, we had people from our shipping department and the warehouse coming to us and asking us if they could apply for the job. As if Tech Writing was so easy, someone with shipping or warehouse experience could do it. Thank you, -Gillian -- Keith L. Smyth President Smyth Consulting - Religion was in charge during the dark ages. - Technical Documentation Consultant ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Rene L. Stephenson eNovative Solutions, Inc. Business Phone: 678-513-0051 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit
Re: TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
I like these views on qualifications. Very revealing, however, I am convinced that to do or accomplish anything (task or objective) in life, there is but one key word and that is: motivation. Do you, or more correctly how do you assess the motivation of the candidate? Thanks for comments peter Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those are good points. Rene Diane Gaskill wrote: Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell...hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?) then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the admin mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. -Lise On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson wrote: I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. I always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all responded that they had good English and were experts with MS Word. They wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the edits from their bosses, so they knew how to handle document review. We had to start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a minimal requirement with no equivalency allowed. Rene Keith Smyth wrote: As in So easy a Caveman could do it? I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone totally clueless thinking all we do is type. Had a gal at one of our square dances from our church in 1983 tell me that while she is a store clerk, she is going to become a tech writer, because if you can do it, anyone can do it. And she went to an interview. Never heard from her again. You think that's insulting? When we had a req open for another tech writer in January, we had people from our shipping department and the warehouse coming to us and asking us if they could apply for the job. As if Tech Writing was so easy, someone with shipping or warehouse experience could do it. Thank you, -Gillian -- Keith L. Smyth President Smyth Consulting - Religion was in charge during the dark ages. - Technical Documentation Consultant ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. Rene L. Stephenson
Re: TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
I don't think anyone thinks that an English degree alone means a person is qualified. It's just a way to try to weed through applicants when you're buried under a pile of resumes of applicants with no writing experience. As I said, it was a response to a particular situation at a particular company, and if you knew all the HR constraints in that company and what it forced into various decisions and how much of the decision could be forced based on HR policies rather than hiring manager's input, you'd have likely made the same decision in that situation. Even tenure in the field isn't always a good indicator. We hired one writer with a 25 year history, but then found out over the course of the next 6 mo that there was very little discipline or tool knowledge, and a prevalent attitude that edits are a luxury and little things like consistently referring to AC power in caps was considered making it pretty and that writer didn't have time for pretty even though there was time built into the schedule and not plenty of writer bandwidth. Certainly, there have been good writers with non-English degrees and prior work experience in a technical field. I have hired a couple myself, and I work with one now. It's hard to find a good blend of writing skill and technical expertise, but it's out there. Rene Deb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I agree with Diane. I have encountered candidates with english degrees and certifications in english who have failed badly when it comes to the writing piece and working on the relevant documentation tools. Regards, Debashish On 5/16/07, Diane Gaskill wrote: Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell...hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?) then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the admin mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. -Lise On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson wrote: I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. I always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all responded that they had good English and were experts with MS Word. They wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the edits from their bosses, so they knew how to handle document review. We had to start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a minimal requirement with no equivalency allowed. Rene Keith Smyth wrote: As in So easy a Caveman could do it? I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone
Re: TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
I have found that open-ended questions and carefully listening help during the interview, but it's really hard to figure out what motivates someone you don't know. You could ask some questions that pose difficult choices and follow up with why they chose what they did. You could ask questions about if they were told they had to choose to spend a month in various undesireable situations, which one would they choose. That could give you an understanding if they are transparent, but sometimes candidates will tell you either what they think you want to hear or what they think is the most benign choice. I have found with employees, as with my children, that motivation is largely internal. You can give incentives, but that only works for those who are motivated by wanting more. You can give praise, but that only works for the pleasers. You can give challenges, but that only works for those not easily intimidated. You can give encouragement, but those who like to be coddled may well just settle into a comfort zone and demotivate. I think it's more key to understand what's important to them first. Then you can figure out how to balance what's important to them with the needs of your company and what you can offer to keep everyone moving forward. If the question isn't WHAT motivates, but rather IF they're motivated, that's another issue altogether. In that case, you can glimpse some hints sometimes by probing into recent projects (tell me about a recent project that you found enjoyable/frustrating/challenging/bothersome and why). Around my town, tech writing is a small community, so it's easy to find out about someone by word of mouth, too. I know some people who don't check references, unless they personally know the listed reference, because folks aren't going to put down a reference that's not going to just say how grand the candidate is. However, I have gotten some good insight from references from time to time, so I don't know that I agree with that tack. My 2¢US (right, that's not the strongest currency these days LOL) Rene Peter Courlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like these views on qualifications. Very revealing, however, I am convinced that to do or accomplish anything (task or objective) in life, there is but one key word and that is: motivation. Do you, or more correctly how do you assess the motivation of the candidate? Thanks for comments peter Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those are good points. Rene Diane Gaskill wrote: Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell...hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?) then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the admin mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise,
TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell..."hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?") then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the "admin" mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. -Lise On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson wrote: > I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. I always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all responded that they had "good English" and were experts with MS Word. They wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the "edits" from their bosses, so they "knew" how to handle document review. We had to start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a minimal requirement with no "equivalency" allowed. > > Rene > > > Keith Smyth wrote: > As in "So easy a Caveman could do it"? > > I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone totally clueless > thinking all we do is type. Had a gal at one of our square dances from > our church in 1983 tell me that while she is a store clerk, she is going to > become a tech writer, "because if you can do it, anyone can do it". > > And she went to an interview. Never heard from her again. > > > >You think that's insulting? When we had a req open for another tech > >writer in January, we had people from our shipping department and the > >warehouse coming to us and asking us if they could apply for the job. As > >if Tech Writing was so easy, someone with shipping or warehouse > >experience could do it. > > > > > >Thank you, > > > > -Gillian > > -- > Keith L. Smyth > President > Smyth Consulting > - > Religion was in charge during the dark ages. > - > Technical Documentation Consultant > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > Rene L. Stephenson > eNovative Solutions, Inc. > Business Phone: 678-513-0051 > Email: rinnie1 at yahoo.com > > > > ___ > > > You are currently
TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
Hi All, I agree with Diane. I have encountered candidates with english degrees and certifications in english who have failed badly when it comes to the writing piece and working on the relevant documentation tools. Regards, Debashish On 5/16/07, Diane Gaskill wrote: > > Rene, All, > > Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on > an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. > > As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with > MAs > and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I > hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical > experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to > look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience > when > screening and hiring writers. > > I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A > degree > in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL > writer. I'd > personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer > science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are > usually > sw developers or designers, not writers. > > Diane Gaskill > San Jose, CA > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On > Behalf Of Lise Bible > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA > > > Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at > my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others > assume that if you can type and spell > (or *not* spell..."hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?") then > you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. > > But it is hard to break out of the "admin" mold. I don't have a degree > in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because > I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a > specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and > ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. > Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my > department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two > acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer > position here opened up, and I applied. > > I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position > out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services > department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken > classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at > Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. > > Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think > outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed > out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. > > -Lise > > On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson wrote: > > I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. > Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. > I > always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all > responded that they had "good English" and were experts with MS Word. They > wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the > "edits" > from their bosses, so they "knew" how to handle document review. We had to > start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a > minimal requirement with no "equivalency" allowed. > > > > Rene > > > > > > Keith Smyth wrote: > > As in "So easy a Caveman could do it"? > > > > I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone totally clueless > > thinking all we do is type. Had a gal at one of our square dances from > > our church in 1983 tell me that while she is a store clerk, she is going > to > > become a tech writer, "because if you can do it, anyone can do it". > > > > And she went to an interview. Never heard from her again. > > > > > > >You think that's insulting? When we had a req open for another tech > > >writer in January, we had people from our shipping department and the > > >warehouse coming to us and asking us if they could apply for the job. > As > > >if Tech Writing was so easy, someone with shipping or warehouse > > >experience could do it. > > > > > > > > >Thank you, > > > > > > -Gillian > > > > -- > > Keith L. Smyth > > President > > Smyth Consulting > > - > > Religion was in charge during the dark ages. > > - > > Technical Documentation Consultant > > > > ___ > > > > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com. > > > > Send list messages to framers at
TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
Those are good points. Rene Diane Gaskill wrote: Rene, All, Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when screening and hiring writers. I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually sw developers or designers, not writers. Diane Gaskill San Jose, CA -Original Message- From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of Lise Bible Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others assume that if you can type and spell (or *not* spell..."hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?") then you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. But it is hard to break out of the "admin" mold. I don't have a degree in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer position here opened up, and I applied. I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. -Lise On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson wrote: > I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. I always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all responded that they had "good English" and were experts with MS Word. They wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the "edits" from their bosses, so they "knew" how to handle document review. We had to start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a minimal requirement with no "equivalency" allowed. > > Rene > > > Keith Smyth wrote: > As in "So easy a Caveman could do it"? > > I am sure all of us have had the experience of someone totally clueless > thinking all we do is type. Had a gal at one of our square dances from > our church in 1983 tell me that while she is a store clerk, she is going to > become a tech writer, "because if you can do it, anyone can do it". > > And she went to an interview. Never heard from her again. > > > >You think that's insulting? When we had a req open for another tech > >writer in January, we had people from our shipping department and the > >warehouse coming to us and asking us if they could apply for the job. As > >if Tech Writing was so easy, someone with shipping or warehouse > >experience could do it. > > > > > >Thank you, > > > > -Gillian > > -- > Keith L. Smyth > President > Smyth Consulting > - > Religion was in charge during the dark ages. > - > Technical Documentation Consultant > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rinnie1%40yahoo.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > > > Rene L. Stephenson > eNovative Solutions, Inc. > Business Phone: 678-513-0051 > Email: rinnie1 at yahoo.com > > > >
TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
I don't think anyone thinks that an English degree alone means a person is qualified. It's just a way to try to weed through applicants when you're buried under a pile of resumes of applicants with no writing experience. As I said, it was a response to a particular situation at a particular company, and if you knew all the HR constraints in that company and what it forced into various decisions and how much of the decision could be forced based on HR policies rather than hiring manager's input, you'd have likely made the same decision in that situation. Even tenure in the field isn't always a good indicator. We hired one writer with a 25 year history, but then found out over the course of the next 6 mo that there was very little discipline or tool knowledge, and a prevalent attitude that edits are a luxury and little things like consistently referring to AC power in caps was considered "making it pretty" and that writer "didn't have time for pretty" even though there was time built into the schedule and not plenty of writer bandwidth. Certainly, there have been good writers with non-English degrees and prior work experience in a technical field. I have hired a couple myself, and I work with one now. It's hard to find a good blend of writing skill and technical expertise, but it's out there. Rene Deb wrote: Hi All, I agree with Diane. I have encountered candidates with english degrees and certifications in english who have failed badly when it comes to the writing piece and working on the relevant documentation tools. Regards, Debashish On 5/16/07, Diane Gaskill wrote: > > Rene, All, > > Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on > an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job. > > As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with > MAs > and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I > hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical > experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to > look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience > when > screening and hiring writers. > > I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A > degree > in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL > writer. I'd > personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer > science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are > usually > sw developers or designers, not writers. > > Diane Gaskill > San Jose, CA > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On > Behalf Of Lise Bible > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA > > > Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at > my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others > assume that if you can type and spell > (or *not* spell..."hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?") then > you're fully qualified to be a tech writer. > > But it is hard to break out of the "admin" mold. I don't have a degree > in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because > I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a > specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and > ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company. > Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my > department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two > acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer > position here opened up, and I applied. > > I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position > out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services > department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken > classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at > Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job. > > Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's not a bad thing to think > outside the box, hiring-wise, but yes, it is hard to effectively weed > out the unqualified while finding the right person for the job. > > -Lise > > On 5/15/07, Rene Stephenson wrote: > > I have had secretaries apply for tech writer openings in my group. > Internal candidates always get phone screening, so I'd have to call them. > I > always asked what they felt were their qualifications, and they all > responded that they had "good English" and were experts with MS Word. They > wrote lots of corresondence and updated their draft letters with the > "edits" > from their bosses, so they "knew" how to handle document review. We had to > start posting BA or higher in English or directly relevant field as a > minimal requirement with
TW hiring qualifications was: RE: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
I have found that open-ended questions and carefully listening help during the
interview, but it's really hard to figure out what motivates someone you don't
know. You could ask some questions that pose difficult choices and follow up
with why they chose what they did. You could ask questions about if they were
told they had to choose to spend a month in various undesireable situations,
which one would they choose. That could give you an understanding if they are
transparent, but sometimes candidates will tell you either what they think you
want to hear or what they think is the most benign choice.
I have found with employees, as with my children, that motivation is largely
internal. You can give incentives, but that only works for those who are
motivated by wanting more. You can give praise, but that only works for the
pleasers. You can give challenges, but that only works for those not easily
intimidated. You can give encouragement, but those who like to be coddled may
well just settle into a comfort zone and demotivate. I think it's more key to
understand what's important to them first. Then you can figure out how to
balance what's important to them with the needs of your company and what you
can offer to keep everyone moving forward.
If the question isn't WHAT motivates, but rather IF they're motivated, that's
another issue altogether. In that case, you can glimpse some hints sometimes by
probing into recent projects ("tell me about a recent project that you found
enjoyable/frustrating/challenging/bothersome and why"). Around my town, tech
writing is a small community, so it's easy to find out "about" someone by word
of mouth, too.
I know some people who don't check references, unless they personally know
the listed reference, because folks aren't going to put down a reference that's
not going to just say how grand the candidate is. However, I have gotten some
good insight from references from time to time, so I don't know that I agree
with that tack.
My 2?US (right, that's not the strongest currency these days LOL)
Rene
Peter Courlis wrote:
I like these views on qualifications. Very revealing,
however, I am convinced that to do or accomplish
anything (task or objective) in life, there is but one
key word and that is: motivation.
Do you, or more correctly how do you assess
the motivation of the candidate?
Thanks for comments
peter
Rene Stephenson wrote: Those are good points.
Rene
Diane Gaskill wrote:
Rene, All,
Be careful about rejecting applicants without a degree, and don't count on
an applicant having a degree being qualified for the job.
As a Tech Pubs Manager for 10 years, I disqualified several people with MAs
and even PhDs because they had little or no technical experience. And I
hired more than one writer with no degree but had a great deal of tehnical
experience and writing talent as well. I would strongly encourage you to
look at each applicant individually and consider equivalent experience when
screening and hiring writers.
I suggest that you consider other degrees besides English as well. A degree
in English does not by itself qualify anyone to be a TECHNICAL writer. I'd
personally rather hire someone with a degree in engineering or computer
science and who is a good writer. But people with those degrees are usually
sw developers or designers, not writers.
Diane Gaskill
San Jose, CA
-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On
Behalf Of Lise Bible
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:25 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Entry Level Technical Writer - Contract - Moorpark, CA
Well, I guess I can kind of see both sides. I've been a tech writer at
my company for a year and a half, and it is frustrating when others
assume that if you can type and spell
(or *not* spell..."hey, that's what spell-check is for, right?") then
you're fully qualified to be a tech writer.
But it is hard to break out of the "admin" mold. I don't have a degree
in English, but I have a BA in Psychology. I majored in Psych because
I thought the classes were really quite interesting, not having a
specific career goal in mind. After college, I started temping, and
ended up in an admin/customer service role at a manufacturing company.
Among other things, I wrote work instructions and the like for my
department, learned PageMaker and became an expert at Word. Two
acquisitions, two office moves and 2 years later, the tech writer
position here opened up, and I applied.
I think my former boss went to bat for me, as they moved the position
out of the marketing department and into the Engineering Services
department (where I was already), and here I am. I've since taken
classes in Frame and a Tech Writing course through University of IL at
Chicago, and I find I have an affinity for the job.
Moral of my story, I guess, is that it's
