Re: Third-party or out of the box plugins [was re: Frame's future]

[eric . dunn]

Marcus Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 02/22/2007 10:46:17 PM:
 For our mechanically gifted friend, I'd be 
 inclined to provide a graphic interface and a touch screen that let him 
 drill to the warp drive than compel him to hunt and peck on a toughened 
 keyboard. An index may have its place, but it's a much smaller home than 

 where it used to live.
 

Now what exactly is the difference between hunt and peck and drill. 
And how is a toughened and oil covered touch-screen and more elegant than 
a toughened keyboard? It's poor form to use derogatory terminology for one 
option we don't support and positive terminology for the one we do. The 
statements also unveil a certain snobbery of IT superiority by denigrating 
those that work in other fields. Denigrate anything linked to the awful 
old hands-on industry and try to enlighten it with beautiful IT derived 
terms and symbology.

Graphical interfaces have their advantages. And when applied where they 
are the best choice/toll for the application they're great. But a purely 
graphical interface is a poor option in terms of efficiency. The mouse has 
it's place, but for MANY actions keyboard shortcuts are the best option. 
And would you suggest the stupidity of a graphical only interface and 
touch-screen with  the abomination of a touch-screen pop-up keyboard for 
data and text tasks?

There is no hunting or pecking not drilling in either a well designed 
graphical interface or a well designed index if the thing being searched 
for is at the top level (say the engine). But, when searching for 
something more arcane down in the bowels, what is faster and more 
efficient? A bad paper index and a bad on-line index (or ghastly full-text 
search) may both list hood or wrench. But only a good index (hardcopy 
or electronic) will quickly redirect you when you search for bonnet or 
spanner.

Drop the prejudice against indices as a hardcopy only issue and recognise 
that index information is useful metadata, regardless of how it is 
ultimately searched and presented.

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

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Third-party or "out of the box" plugins [was "re: Frame's future"]

[Marcus Carr]

Hedley Finger wrote:

> The original discussion was, generally, about what Adobe needed to do
> to find out what functionality their customers would need in the
> future.
> 
> I attempted to make the point that a study of the third-party plugins
> would indicate to Adobe the gaps in FrameMaker's functionality that
> they need to address, and chose indexing plugins as an example where
> there are many independent plugins to improve this functionality.

While I agree that plugin usage indicates shortfalls in the current 
product, I don't accept that Adobe should take direction from that. Most 
of the plugins mentioned have been developed to support hardcopy 
publishing, but Adobe know as well as anyone that that market is in 
chronic decline. Putting a lot of effort into supporting hardcopy would 
be throwing good money after bad.

I like what Adobe has been doing, adding XSLT support and improving 
their XML handling. Those are the sorts of changes that will keep it 
alive, but they're only first steps. In another ten years, FrameMaker 
will probably need to be a web-based application focused on connecting 
and incorporating information from multiple sources and maybe making it 
look consistent to improve the user's experience. Or something else - I 
don't know. Either way, you can be pretty sure that it's not going to be 
an application for the lossy process of converting information into 
patterns on paper to be posted to someone who will slowly read and 
interpret it back into information. (Yeah, I know, PDF, HTML, but that's 
mostly just paper-to-pixels.)

We had one of the senior XML people from Microsoft in Redmond presenting 
to our developers yesterday - he was showing off things like 
round-tripping, incorporation of microformats into Word and generating 
Word documents from java, all running in Linux to illustrate how little 
dependency there was on Microsoft technology. It was *very* slick. 
Nobody can afford to sit back and wait anymore - the bar gets raised too 
frequently for anyone to recover.

Go long, Adobe!! Blow our socks off!!


-- 
Regards,

Marcus Carr  email:  mcarr at allette.com.au
___
Allette Systems (Australia)  www:http://www.allette.com.au
___
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
- Einstein

Third-party or "out of the box" plugins [was "re: Frame's future"]

[hedley.fin...@myob.com]

Marcus, Marcus, Marcus:

> > I attempted to make the point that a study of the third-party plugins
> > would indicate to Adobe the gaps in FrameMaker's functionality that
> > they need to address, and chose indexing plugins as an example where
> > there are many independent plugins to improve this functionality.
> 
> While I agree that plugin usage indicates shortfalls in the current 
> product, I don't accept that Adobe should take direction from that. Most 

> of the plugins mentioned have been developed to support hardcopy 
> publishing, but Adobe know as well as anyone that that market is in 
> chronic decline.

I'm surprised that you of all people should associate functionality with 
presentation.  It's a bit similar to 
separating format from content.   8^)  And I'm surprised that you equate 
indexes only with hardcopy.

I was trying to make the point that when there are a bunch of plugins to 
support indexing (= data entry), 
Adobe should get the message -- that the indexing functionality in 
FrameMaker sucks.  It was NOT a 
plea to reproduce third-party plugins as is, just their functionality -- 
do we really want the slick user 
interface of IXgen (sorry, Frank)?

Whether that index finishes up in a hardcopy book, PDF, help file, or web 
site is immaterial.  Getting index 
entries into FrameMaker is more difficult than it need be.  And hardcopy 
isn't dead.  If you and I are like 
other people, how many times do we print out a help topic or web page to 
read it? 

And in the wonderful world of personalised content that adapts to the 
custom product you have ordered, 
the country you are in, the access privileges you have, and the set of 
topics you have chosen to print, 
wouldn't it be wonderful if you have chosen to print out your own 
personalised workshop manual for your 
custom 2009 Turbo Tarburner with optional hydrogen fuel cell and electric 
motor (as against the standard 
biodiesel motor), racing slicks, two-tone duco and hard-top convertible 
four-door.  And of course this 
personalised manual would come with its own custom index. When your head 
is under the bonnet, 
Google doesn't work too well with your Haynes repair manual..

Regards,
Hedley

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd 
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia

Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

? MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007

Third-party or "out of the box" plugins [was "re: Frame's future"]

[Marcus Carr]

hedley.finger at myob.com wrote:

> Marcus, Marcus, Marcus:

Hedley, Hedley, Hedley... :-)

> I'm surprised that you of all people should associate functionality
> with presentation.  It's a bit similar to separating format from
> content.   8^)  And I'm surprised that you equate indexes only with
> hardcopy.

My point was more that the plugins reflect improvements to the current 
paradigms, as dictated by the application. It's circular, so 
improvements strike me as tinkering at the edge. Take indexes for 
example - we work through and judiciously mark up occurrences of words 
to appear in an index. The decision as to whether a particular 
occurrence of a word is significant is pretty much based on the current 
view of the data, or configuration of the document, or whatever you 
might want to call it.

What if the fragment of information containing an index marker is pulled 
together with other fragments into a new document? Is that index entry 
still relevant? A more useful approach would be to dynamically index 
once the fragments had been assembled. The results aren't likely to be 
any worse than than just trusting the indexing designed for a different 
document...

So would it be better for Adobe to incorporate the plugin, or to try to 
fix the problem? Maybe both in this particular case, but do you get my 
drift? Adobe following users who are following FrameMaker isn't really 
the path to longevity.

> I was trying to make the point that when there are a bunch of plugins
> to support indexing (= data entry), Adobe should get the message --
> that the indexing functionality in FrameMaker sucks.

I didn't say that it didn't suck, I just think that making it suck less 
at one point in the process isn't really going to work for too long.

> And hardcopy isn't dead.  If you and I are like other people, how
> many times do we print out a help topic or web page to read it?

We have just completed a publishing system for a federal government 
department. It includes hardcopy publication, website and PDAs. They 
used to print and distribute 10,000 hardcopies per release. Since the 
website went live on December 1, the demand has dropped to 1000. In six 
months, it could be down to a couple of hundred. In another year or so, 
the production of hardcopy is scheduled to cease. Hardcopy is as dead as 
a doornail. Never again will as much hardcopy be produced as was 
produced today - you can say that with confidence every morning.

> And in the wonderful world of personalised content that adapts to the
> custom product you have ordered, the country you are in, the access
> privileges you have, and the set of topics you have chosen to print, 
> wouldn't it be wonderful if you have chosen to print out your own 
> personalised workshop manual for your custom 2009 Turbo Tarburner
> with optional hydrogen fuel cell and electric motor (as against the
> standard biodiesel motor), racing slicks, two-tone duco and hard-top
> convertible four-door.  And of course this personalised manual would
> come with its own custom index. When your head is under the bonnet, 
> Google doesn't work too well with your Haynes repair manual..

So there I am, with my head under the bonnet of a piece of machinery 
filled with computers and with a suitable power supply - why wouldn't I 
just have a screen mounted on the inside of the bonnet? The other 
computers in my car could further shape my manual, providing information 
based on diagnostics and rectification procedures. Of course all of 
those permutations could be accounted for in the hardcopy too, but then 
I'd have to have my Tarburner fitted with the optional tow bar so I 
could pull the trailer containing my manuals...

Indexing in this case would be dynamic and would be performed by 
combining the information and the circumstances. Why do I need to know 
where the most significant occurrence of "hydrogen fuel cell" is when my 
car has pointed me to the correct repair procedure?


Marcus

Third-party or "out of the box" plugins [was "re: Frame's future"]

[hedley.fin...@myob.com]

Marcus^3:

The example of the Turbo Tarburner was chosen with care.  Even as we 
bicker, a major automotive manufacturer is implementing an on-demand 
customised workshop manual.

The mechanic will simply enter the car's body number or VIN or whatever, 
and a custom manual for just the equipment in that build will be created 
on the fly and presented on screen.

The mechanic will be able to use a TOC, Index, or boolean search engine to 
find the instructions they need.  The index is there for people who, 
unlike us, do NOT work in the IT industry and have a more sophisticated 
approach to information retrieval.  But EVERYBODY knows how to use a 
back-of-the-book index -- even if it is on-line!

And they will probably print out just the pages they need to fix the warp 
drive.

Regards,
Hedley 

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd 
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia

Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

? MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007

Third-party or "out of the box" plugins [was "re: Frame's future"]

[Marcus Carr]

H4y^3,

hedley.finger at myob.com wrote:

> The example of the Turbo Tarburner was chosen with care.  Even as we
> bicker, a major automotive manufacturer is implementing an on-demand
> customised workshop manual.
> 
> The mechanic will simply enter the car's body number or VIN or
> whatever, and a custom manual for just the equipment in that build
> will be created on the fly and presented on screen.

It makes perfect sense - the information about what the car is equipped 
with has to be pretty easy to obtain. Even things like the service 
history of a vehicle should be stored electronically in one of its 
numerous computers. Writing it in a book that sits in the glove box for 
the life of the car is pretty silly.

> The mechanic will be able to use a TOC, Index, or boolean search
> engine to find the instructions they need.  The index is there for
> people who, unlike us, do NOT work in the IT industry and have a more
> sophisticated approach to information retrieval.  But EVERYBODY knows
> how to use a back-of-the-book index -- even if it is on-line!

Maybe, though I usually think of an index as being a collection of 
shortcuts necessary because the information is difficult to find by 
other means. Of course it is difficult to find things in hardcopy, but 
in an electronic product I might question whether the user interface is 
as good as it could be. For our mechanically gifted friend, I'd be 
inclined to provide a graphic interface and a touch screen that let him 
drill to the warp drive than compel him to hunt and peck on a toughened 
keyboard. An index may have its place, but it's a much smaller home than 
where it used to live.

> And they will probably print out just the pages they need to fix the 
> warp drive.

Perhaps they could load the printer with gasket paper - at least that 
way they'd be able to recycle effectively...

Have a good weekend, Hedley!


Marcus

Third-party or out of the box plugins [was re: Frame's future]

[Marcus Carr]

Hedley Finger wrote:


The original discussion was, generally, about what Adobe needed to do
to find out what functionality their customers would need in the
future.

I attempted to make the point that a study of the third-party plugins
would indicate to Adobe the gaps in FrameMaker's functionality that
they need to address, and chose indexing plugins as an example where
there are many independent plugins to improve this functionality.


While I agree that plugin usage indicates shortfalls in the current 
product, I don't accept that Adobe should take direction from that. Most 
of the plugins mentioned have been developed to support hardcopy 
publishing, but Adobe know as well as anyone that that market is in 
chronic decline. Putting a lot of effort into supporting hardcopy would 
be throwing good money after bad.


I like what Adobe has been doing, adding XSLT support and improving 
their XML handling. Those are the sorts of changes that will keep it 
alive, but they're only first steps. In another ten years, FrameMaker 
will probably need to be a web-based application focused on connecting 
and incorporating information from multiple sources and maybe making it 
look consistent to improve the user's experience. Or something else - I 
don't know. Either way, you can be pretty sure that it's not going to be 
an application for the lossy process of converting information into 
patterns on paper to be posted to someone who will slowly read and 
interpret it back into information. (Yeah, I know, PDF, HTML, but that's 
mostly just paper-to-pixels.)


We had one of the senior XML people from Microsoft in Redmond presenting 
to our developers yesterday - he was showing off things like 
round-tripping, incorporation of microformats into Word and generating 
Word documents from java, all running in Linux to illustrate how little 
dependency there was on Microsoft technology. It was *very* slick. 
Nobody can afford to sit back and wait anymore - the bar gets raised too 
frequently for anyone to recover.


Go long, Adobe!! Blow our socks off!!


--
Regards,

Marcus Carr  email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Allette Systems (Australia)  www:http://www.allette.com.au
___
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
   - Einstein
___


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Re: Third-party or out of the box plugins [was re: Frame's future]

[hedley . finger]

Marcus, Marcus, Marcus:

  I attempted to make the point that a study of the third-party plugins
  would indicate to Adobe the gaps in FrameMaker's functionality that
  they need to address, and chose indexing plugins as an example where
  there are many independent plugins to improve this functionality.
 
 While I agree that plugin usage indicates shortfalls in the current 
 product, I don't accept that Adobe should take direction from that. Most 

 of the plugins mentioned have been developed to support hardcopy 
 publishing, but Adobe know as well as anyone that that market is in 
 chronic decline.

I'm surprised that you of all people should associate functionality with 
presentation.  It's a bit similar to 
separating format from content.   8^)  And I'm surprised that you equate 
indexes only with hardcopy.

I was trying to make the point that when there are a bunch of plugins to 
support indexing (= data entry), 
Adobe should get the message -- that the indexing functionality in 
FrameMaker sucks.  It was NOT a 
plea to reproduce third-party plugins as is, just their functionality -- 
do we really want the slick user 
interface of IXgen (sorry, Frank)?

Whether that index finishes up in a hardcopy book, PDF, help file, or web 
site is immaterial.  Getting index 
entries into FrameMaker is more difficult than it need be.  And hardcopy 
isn't dead.  If you and I are like 
other people, how many times do we print out a help topic or web page to 
read it? 

And in the wonderful world of personalised content that adapts to the 
custom product you have ordered, 
the country you are in, the access privileges you have, and the set of 
topics you have chosen to print, 
wouldn't it be wonderful if you have chosen to print out your own 
personalised workshop manual for your 
custom 2009 Turbo Tarburner with optional hydrogen fuel cell and electric 
motor (as against the standard 
biodiesel motor), racing slicks, two-tone duco and hard-top convertible 
four-door.  And of course this 
personalised manual would come with its own custom index. When your head 
is under the bonnet, 
Google doesn't work too well with your Haynes repair manual..

Regards,
Hedley

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd http://myob.com/au
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia
mailto:hedleyDOTfingerATmyobDOTcom
Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

© MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007
___


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Re: Third-party or out of the box plugins [was re: Frame's future]

[Marcus Carr]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Marcus, Marcus, Marcus:


Hedley, Hedley, Hedley... :-)


I'm surprised that you of all people should associate functionality
with presentation.  It's a bit similar to separating format from
content.   8^)  And I'm surprised that you equate indexes only with
hardcopy.


My point was more that the plugins reflect improvements to the current 
paradigms, as dictated by the application. It's circular, so 
improvements strike me as tinkering at the edge. Take indexes for 
example - we work through and judiciously mark up occurrences of words 
to appear in an index. The decision as to whether a particular 
occurrence of a word is significant is pretty much based on the current 
view of the data, or configuration of the document, or whatever you 
might want to call it.


What if the fragment of information containing an index marker is pulled 
together with other fragments into a new document? Is that index entry 
still relevant? A more useful approach would be to dynamically index 
once the fragments had been assembled. The results aren't likely to be 
any worse than than just trusting the indexing designed for a different 
document...


So would it be better for Adobe to incorporate the plugin, or to try to 
fix the problem? Maybe both in this particular case, but do you get my 
drift? Adobe following users who are following FrameMaker isn't really 
the path to longevity.



I was trying to make the point that when there are a bunch of plugins
to support indexing (= data entry), Adobe should get the message --
that the indexing functionality in FrameMaker sucks.


I didn't say that it didn't suck, I just think that making it suck less 
at one point in the process isn't really going to work for too long.



And hardcopy isn't dead.  If you and I are like other people, how
many times do we print out a help topic or web page to read it?


We have just completed a publishing system for a federal government 
department. It includes hardcopy publication, website and PDAs. They 
used to print and distribute 10,000 hardcopies per release. Since the 
website went live on December 1, the demand has dropped to 1000. In six 
months, it could be down to a couple of hundred. In another year or so, 
the production of hardcopy is scheduled to cease. Hardcopy is as dead as 
a doornail. Never again will as much hardcopy be produced as was 
produced today - you can say that with confidence every morning.



And in the wonderful world of personalised content that adapts to the
custom product you have ordered, the country you are in, the access
privileges you have, and the set of topics you have chosen to print, 
wouldn't it be wonderful if you have chosen to print out your own 
personalised workshop manual for your custom 2009 Turbo Tarburner

with optional hydrogen fuel cell and electric motor (as against the
standard biodiesel motor), racing slicks, two-tone duco and hard-top
convertible four-door.  And of course this personalised manual would
come with its own custom index. When your head is under the bonnet, 
Google doesn't work too well with your Haynes repair manual..


So there I am, with my head under the bonnet of a piece of machinery 
filled with computers and with a suitable power supply - why wouldn't I 
just have a screen mounted on the inside of the bonnet? The other 
computers in my car could further shape my manual, providing information 
based on diagnostics and rectification procedures. Of course all of 
those permutations could be accounted for in the hardcopy too, but then 
I'd have to have my Tarburner fitted with the optional tow bar so I 
could pull the trailer containing my manuals...


Indexing in this case would be dynamic and would be performed by 
combining the information and the circumstances. Why do I need to know 
where the most significant occurrence of hydrogen fuel cell is when my 
car has pointed me to the correct repair procedure?



Marcus
___


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Re: Third-party or out of the box plugins [was re: Frame's future]

[hedley . finger]

Marcus^3:

The example of the Turbo Tarburner was chosen with care.  Even as we 
bicker, a major automotive manufacturer is implementing an on-demand 
customised workshop manual.

The mechanic will simply enter the car's body number or VIN or whatever, 
and a custom manual for just the equipment in that build will be created 
on the fly and presented on screen.

The mechanic will be able to use a TOC, Index, or boolean search engine to 
find the instructions they need.  The index is there for people who, 
unlike us, do NOT work in the IT industry and have a more sophisticated 
approach to information retrieval.  But EVERYBODY knows how to use a 
back-of-the-book index -- even if it is on-line!

And they will probably print out just the pages they need to fix the warp 
drive.

Regards,
Hedley 

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd http://myob.com/au
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia
mailto:hedleyDOTfingerATmyobDOTcom
Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

© MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007
___


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Re: Third-party or out of the box plugins [was re: Frame's future]

[Marcus Carr]

H4y^3,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


The example of the Turbo Tarburner was chosen with care.  Even as we
bicker, a major automotive manufacturer is implementing an on-demand
customised workshop manual.

The mechanic will simply enter the car's body number or VIN or
whatever, and a custom manual for just the equipment in that build
will be created on the fly and presented on screen.


It makes perfect sense - the information about what the car is equipped 
with has to be pretty easy to obtain. Even things like the service 
history of a vehicle should be stored electronically in one of its 
numerous computers. Writing it in a book that sits in the glove box for 
the life of the car is pretty silly.



The mechanic will be able to use a TOC, Index, or boolean search
engine to find the instructions they need.  The index is there for
people who, unlike us, do NOT work in the IT industry and have a more
sophisticated approach to information retrieval.  But EVERYBODY knows
how to use a back-of-the-book index -- even if it is on-line!


Maybe, though I usually think of an index as being a collection of 
shortcuts necessary because the information is difficult to find by 
other means. Of course it is difficult to find things in hardcopy, but 
in an electronic product I might question whether the user interface is 
as good as it could be. For our mechanically gifted friend, I'd be 
inclined to provide a graphic interface and a touch screen that let him 
drill to the warp drive than compel him to hunt and peck on a toughened 
keyboard. An index may have its place, but it's a much smaller home than 
where it used to live.


And they will probably print out just the pages they need to fix the 
warp drive.


Perhaps they could load the printer with gasket paper - at least that 
way they'd be able to recycle effectively...


Have a good weekend, Hedley!


Marcus
___


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Third-party or "out of the box" plugins [was "re: Frame's future"]

[hedley.fin...@myob.com]

Since my post about plugins diverted this thread from its original topic 
onto a discussion of the merits of plugins, may I amplify my remarks?

The original discussion was, generally, about what Adobe needed to do to 
find out what functionality their customers would need in the future.

I attempted to make the point that a study of the third-party plugins 
would indicate to Adobe the gaps in FrameMaker's functionality that they 
need to address, and chose indexing plugins as an example where there are 
many independent plugins to improve this functionality.  Indexing is 
surely a fundamental function of a publishing application, not bloatware 
as one correspondent implied.  I am not a professional indexer, but any 
user of Sky Index, Cindex, Authex, or Macrex will tell you how *fast* 
these tools are -- progressive matching against previous entries to speed 
up entry, real-time display of the compiled index, editing entries in the 
real-time display (e.g. "dogs/feeding", "dogs/breeds", "dogs/shows" can be 
quickly changed to "canines/feeding", "canines/breeds", "canines/shows" by 
changing the main entry "dogs" in one place), fast construction of sort 
order, application of char formats, view of entries in page order showing 
what entries are on what page, etc.**

These many plugins are surely a pointer to a need to improve the indexing 
functionality "out of the box", either by Adobe developing this 
functionality to a level comparable to the standalone tools or by 
licensing in suitable third-party plugins.

While there are many ingenious plugins available that various people have 
developed to scratch an itch shared by only a few, FrameMaker customers 
should not have to hunt for third-party tools that address *fundamental* 
functionality.  I am sure that Frank Elmore would be happy to license 
FrameScript/ElmScript if Adobe were willing to pay an appropriate fee, for 
instance.

Regards,
Hedley


** Amazingly, none of these "smart" tools embed the entries in the source 
file as Word and FrameMaker do.  If the pagination changes there are some 
crude methods of reassigning page numbers but if, say, the pagination is 
radically different in a new edition (think of the various paperback, 
hardcover and coffee-table edition of Dava Sobel's "Longitude") the index 
has to be manually recompiled! Truly!

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd 
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia

Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

? MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007

Third-party or out of the box plugins [was re: Frame's future]

[hedley . finger]

Since my post about plugins diverted this thread from its original topic 
onto a discussion of the merits of plugins, may I amplify my remarks?

The original discussion was, generally, about what Adobe needed to do to 
find out what functionality their customers would need in the future.

I attempted to make the point that a study of the third-party plugins 
would indicate to Adobe the gaps in FrameMaker's functionality that they 
need to address, and chose indexing plugins as an example where there are 
many independent plugins to improve this functionality.  Indexing is 
surely a fundamental function of a publishing application, not bloatware 
as one correspondent implied.  I am not a professional indexer, but any 
user of Sky Index, Cindex, Authex, or Macrex will tell you how *fast* 
these tools are -- progressive matching against previous entries to speed 
up entry, real-time display of the compiled index, editing entries in the 
real-time display (e.g. dogs/feeding, dogs/breeds, dogs/shows can be 
quickly changed to canines/feeding, canines/breeds, canines/shows by 
changing the main entry dogs in one place), fast construction of sort 
order, application of char formats, view of entries in page order showing 
what entries are on what page, etc.**

These many plugins are surely a pointer to a need to improve the indexing 
functionality out of the box, either by Adobe developing this 
functionality to a level comparable to the standalone tools or by 
licensing in suitable third-party plugins.

While there are many ingenious plugins available that various people have 
developed to scratch an itch shared by only a few, FrameMaker customers 
should not have to hunt for third-party tools that address *fundamental* 
functionality.  I am sure that Frank Elmore would be happy to license 
FrameScript/ElmScript if Adobe were willing to pay an appropriate fee, for 
instance.

Regards,
Hedley


** Amazingly, none of these smart tools embed the entries in the source 
file as Word and FrameMaker do.  If the pagination changes there are some 
crude methods of reassigning page numbers but if, say, the pagination is 
radically different in a new edition (think of the various paperback, 
hardcover and coffee-table edition of Dava Sobel's Longitude) the index 
has to be manually recompiled! Truly!

--
Hedley Finger
Training Content Developer and Tools Specialist
MYOB Australia Pty Ltd http://myob.com/au
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia
mailto:hedleyDOTfingerATmyobDOTcom
Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

© MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2007
___


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