Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 234: Standardizing our use of INavigationRoot

[David Glick]

On Oct 27, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Andreas Zeidler wrote:


hi team,

afaict PLIP 234[1] was never proposed to the framework team list.   
technically we require this in order to consider a PLIP, or at least  
we repeatedly asked PLIP authors to announce their PLIPs here so  
we're aware of them.  seeing that this particular PLIP has already  
received two votes[3] — probably because wichert (i reckon) has  
included in in the list for 3.3[2] — and since it's already been  
proposed in august, i suppose we want to be friendly and make an  
exception here.  right? :)


The core developer reference[1] was incorrectly stating that PLIPs  
should be announced on the plone developers list, rather than the  
framework team list.  So I'm glad that we were willing to be lenient  
in this case.  I have corrected that error -- if you see the same  
error elsewhere, please fix it.


SteveM and I are going to do a more thorough review of the process- 
related parts of our developer documentation sometime after the US  
election, to make sure they are up to date, so please let one of us  
know if you are aware of new pieces of knowledge that are in our  
collective heads but should be written down for the sake of new people  
coming on board.


By the way, have any deadlines been named for implementing the PLIPs  
that were approved for 3.3?


[1] 
http://plone.org/documentation/manual/plone-developer-reference/overview/release-process


peace,

David Glick
Web Developer
ONE/Northwest

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Re: [Framework-Team] Kicking off Plone 4: Release Manager candidate

[Jon Stahl]

Tom Lazar wrote:

On 28.10.2008, at 13:03, Alan Runyan wrote:


+1 to Hanno/Martin being Plone 4 release manager/communicator


same here!

I couldn't possibly imagine two more qualified people.   Three cheers 
for you both! :-)


:jon


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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP #187: Working out-of-the-box WebDAV

[Ricardo Newbery]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Alan Runyan wrote:

If the OSX webdav support was dropped from this PLIP, then perhaps  
the PLIP
should be updated to make that clear. At the moment, it clearly  
suggests

that the OSX behavior was specifically targeted.


I will leave that up to Sidnei.  Having a working WebDAV is a big  
change.
We have been working on the problem for over 3 years.  I would  
suggest that
sidnei/framework team focus on a platform agnostic dav client on the  
first
go around.  If you focus on having every platform supported fully -  
it may or

may not happen.

I will let sidnei answer for himself.

--
Alan Runyan



Just to be clear, even though this issue is important to me, I'm  
agnostic about whether this particular PLIP *should* include OSX  
webdav fixes.


But regardless, I think we can agree that it is very important that  
PLIPs accurately reflect what is actually being proposed before they  
become part of the public release documentation.


Ric




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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP #187: Working out-of-the-box WebDAV

[Alan Runyan]

> If the OSX webdav support was dropped from this PLIP, then perhaps the PLIP
> should be updated to make that clear. At the moment, it clearly suggests
> that the OSX behavior was specifically targeted.

I will leave that up to Sidnei.  Having a working WebDAV is a big change.
We have been working on the problem for over 3 years.  I would suggest that
sidnei/framework team focus on a platform agnostic dav client on the first
go around.  If you focus on having every platform supported fully - it may or
may not happen.

I will let sidnei answer for himself.

-- 
Alan Runyan
Enfold Systems, Inc.
http://www.enfoldsystems.com/
phone: +1.713.942.2377x111
fax: +1.832.201.8856

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default

[Danny Bloemendaal]

Well, I am all in favor of having the UI fixed. Perhaps some of the  
kss boys can do this. You need to have a hover event that shows a  
button next to the widget (button can styles using css into a pencil  
or something) and the click should trigger the edit mode. I think that  
jeroen vloothuis could do this in an afternoon. we could ask him to  
help.



On 28 okt 2008, at 18:18, Wichert Akkerman wrote:


Previously Alan Runyan wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Alec Mitchell  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Is it really that much work to fix the ui for starting an edit?  I
think there are a lot of people who like this feature, but are
frustrated by the UI.  Disabling it does nothing to fix that though,
it's just another regression to work around what many consider a  
real

UI bug.


I agree.  Who owns this part of the UI?


No part of the UI is 'owned'. If someone has a better implementation  
I'm
all for that, but I don't have the right skillset to implement it.  
Until

then this PLIP improves the currently situation quite a bit.

Wichert.

--
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/   It is hard to make things  
simple.


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Re: [Framework-Team] Comments on PLIP 244

[Ricardo Alves]

Wichert Akkerman wrote:

Previously Ricardo Alves wrote:

Hi framework team,

I'm sorry I didnt' comment on the previous discussion about PLIP #244, 
but I wasn't subscribing this list. Anyway, I'd like to comment on some 
of the objections already posted in the PLIP page.


About the usefulness of site-wide portlets, let me give an example: you 
have a static portlet assignment at a folder, and that portlet makes 
sense only in the context of that folder, so you want to block it in 
subfolders but keeping site-wide portlets visible (e.g. like news, 
review list, events, etc). Currently you can't do this, unless you 
manage to setup some weird combination using the other categories...


I disagree. Again you are just describing a special case of a more
generic problem: the lack of ability to selective block (and perhaps
unblock) portlets. 


I agree that per-portlet blocking would make it easier, and it shouldn't 
be that hard to implement.



I can not think of a single situation where site
portlets would make sense.



The use case is almost the same, even with per-portlet blocking. I'll 
try to describe it.


Say you have the following site structure:

/ (Site Root)
/services (Folder)
/services/network/ (Folder)

- the site root has a portlet assignment (e.g. news portlet)

- the folder "/services" blocks the news portlet

- but you don't want to block the news portlet in folder "/services/network"

- if using a site-wide portlet, folder "/services" would be the only one 
blocking it and it would be shown in "/services/network".



Anyway, I do agree that this use case is not that common, and 
per-portlet blocking would do the trick for most use cases. So I guess 
the best is to start working on it :)



Ricardo


--
Ricardo Alves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Eurotux  



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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP #187: Working out-of-the-box WebDAV

[Ricardo Newbery]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 5:20 AM, Alan Runyan wrote:


Andreas,

Please confirm, the outstanding questions are:

 - Wichert asking, "How are the marshallers configured via  
GenericSetup"


 This is a great question.

 - Ricardo asking, "how the OS X resource fork issue was resolved."

We should not focus on how a certain platform works
correctly/incorrectly. We should focus on getting a standard webdav
client to work.  By standard I mean either davlib.py or cadaver.  Not
OSX or Windows Web Folders.  FWIW: Enfold Desktop uses davlib.py.



If the OSX webdav support was dropped from this PLIP, then perhaps the  
PLIP should be updated to make that clear. At the moment, it clearly  
suggests that the OSX behavior was specifically targeted.


Ric




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[Framework-Team] Plone 3.3 PLIP Recommendations

[Steve McMahon]

Here are the 3.3 PLIP Recommendations. A vote breakdown is attached in PDF.

Steve

===

126: "Link type should automatically redirect when accessed directly"
Accepted

187: "Working Out-of-the-box WebDAV "
Accepted
197: "Add FeedParser as external requirement"
Accepted
228: "Restore 'Add Item..' menu on all pages"
Rejected for default: Violates continuity of UI within 3.x series.
Acceptable as add-on or switch with current behavior as default.

232: "Resource Registries Improvements"
Accepted

234: "Standardizing our use of INavigationRoot"
Accepted after amendment to use navigation_root_url
236: "Move Display menu to edit and allow for custom properties"
Rejected: Violates continuity of UI in 3.x series

237: "Minor i18n upgrades"
Accepted
238: "Disable inline editing by default"
Accepted
239: "Adapterise the Extensible Indexable Object Wrapper"
Accepted

240: "Improve locking configurability"
Accepted

241: "Clean up auto-sort:  auto-order code"
Accepted
242: "Move manage-portlets link to site actions"
Rejected: Violates continuity of UI in 3.x series

243: "Replace workflow history viewlet with content history viewlet"
Accepted

244: "Portlet management improvements"
Rejected: Too much risk given unclear implementation
246: "View for rendering events as an iCalendar file"
Accepted

247: "Automate ZCML Loading for Plone Plug-ins"
Accepted


plips.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Framework-Team] Comments on PLIP 244

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Ricardo Alves wrote:
> Hi framework team,
> 
> I'm sorry I didnt' comment on the previous discussion about PLIP #244, 
> but I wasn't subscribing this list. Anyway, I'd like to comment on some 
> of the objections already posted in the PLIP page.
> 
> About the usefulness of site-wide portlets, let me give an example: you 
> have a static portlet assignment at a folder, and that portlet makes 
> sense only in the context of that folder, so you want to block it in 
> subfolders but keeping site-wide portlets visible (e.g. like news, 
> review list, events, etc). Currently you can't do this, unless you 
> manage to setup some weird combination using the other categories...

I disagree. Again you are just describing a special case of a more
generic problem: the lack of ability to selective block (and perhaps
unblock) portlets. I can not think of a single situation where site
portlets would make sense.

Wichert.

-- 
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/   It is hard to make things simple.

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Alan Runyan wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Alec Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is it really that much work to fix the ui for starting an edit?  I
> > think there are a lot of people who like this feature, but are
> > frustrated by the UI.  Disabling it does nothing to fix that though,
> > it's just another regression to work around what many consider a real
> > UI bug.
> 
> I agree.  Who owns this part of the UI?

No part of the UI is 'owned'. If someone has a better implementation I'm
all for that, but I don't have the right skillset to implement it. Until
then this PLIP improves the currently situation quite a bit.

Wichert.

-- 
Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/   It is hard to make things simple.

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default

[Alan Runyan]

On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Alec Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it really that much work to fix the ui for starting an edit?  I
> think there are a lot of people who like this feature, but are
> frustrated by the UI.  Disabling it does nothing to fix that though,
> it's just another regression to work around what many consider a real
> UI bug.

I agree.  Who owns this part of the UI?

-- 
Alan Runyan
Enfold Systems, Inc.
http://www.enfoldsystems.com/
phone: +1.713.942.2377x111
fax: +1.832.201.8856

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[Framework-Team] Draft Call for Team Membership Applications

[Steve McMahon]

DRAFT Call for Plone 4.x Framework Team Members

Would you like to help choose what goes into Plone 4?

The Plone Framework team is now receiving applications for membership in the
Plone 4 Framework Team.

The Framework Team will be responsible for evaluating the PLone Improvement
Proposals (PLIPS) for Plone 4.x. The team also nominates the release manager
to the Plone Foundation Board, which does the hiring. PLIP evaluation
consists of considering the benefits and risks associated with a PLIP and
casting a reasoned and explained +/- 1 vote on each proposal. Framework Team
members also follow PLIP implementation, and make recommendations to the
Release Manager.

Qualifications include:

   - An awareness of community strategic discussions about Plone's
   development;
   - Ability to make a long-term committment. Plone 4 will take some time,
   and the team will stay together to work on the entire 4.x series.
   - A good understanding of Plone's architecture and UI: enough to weigh
   risks and benefits;
   - Time to keep up with discussions on the Framework Team mailing lists;
   - The ability to occasionally budget a significant amount of time for
   evaluating PLIPs in detail as feature-lock deadlines approach;
   - The ability to work with SVN well enough to test PLIP integration and
   implementation for final evaluation;
   - The personality to get along well in a flexible, give-and-take group
   process and to accept and support group decisions.

New Framework Team members will be chosen by existing Framework Team members
and involved FWT alumni. Considerations will include many criteria beyond
the simply technical. The new team must be balanced in skills and likely to
work well together.

Please note something new: the Plone 3.x Framework Team will continue to
work on enhancing Plone 3.x during the development of Plone 4 and possibly
afterwards.

If you're interested, please send an introductory note, explaining your
interest and qualifications, to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Postings
from non-subscribers are rejected, so if you're not a subscriber, send your
message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a request for forwarding.
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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default

[Alec Mitchell]

Is it really that much work to fix the ui for starting an edit?  I
think there are a lot of people who like this feature, but are
frustrated by the UI.  Disabling it does nothing to fix that though,
it's just another regression to work around what many consider a real
UI bug.

Alec

On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Raphael Ritz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wichert Akkerman wrote:
>>
>> I want to propose PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default
>>
>> Motivation
>> --
>> I suspect that by now most of us have realized that the current inline
>> editing
>> behaviour in Plone 3 is not very practical. It has two main problems:
>>
>> * it is very easily triggered by default, which causes unwanted edit
>> fields to
>>  be opened which have to be manually closed. This happens because many,
>>  if not most, people click accidentily, select text to keep track of
>>  the reading position, try to select text to copy&paste it or for other
>>  reasons. Since every single click activates inline edit this happens
>>  all too often and becomes very frustrating over time.
>>
>> * as Alexander mentioned in his new UI proposal what you really want is
>>  a quick option to go to a full edit-mode. Editing a single field is a
>>  much less common operation than we were expecting.
>>
>> I can't think of a single Plone deployment I have been involved in for
>> the last 6 months where we have not disabled inline editing, which
>> strengthens my believe that the current default is wrong.
>>
>> Proposal
>> -
>>
>> Current Plone releases have a simple toggle to enable or disable inline
>> editing. I propose that we change the default for newly created sites to
>> disabled.
>>
>> Please note that I do not propose to disable inline field validation in
>> edit screens: that is a very useful and desirable feature.
>>
>> Wichert.
>>
>>
>
> +1 on just changing the default.
>
> Raphael
>
> PS: And while we are at this: personally I do like inline editing
> for simple fields like title, description, a date and such.
> But where I really HATE it is when it comes to text fields as
> they often contain a large body of text that you want to scroll
> through, that has links embedded that you want to click etc.
>
> But that's not the matter of this PLIP and it seems like we are
> going to see more on this soon anyway.
>
>
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Re: [Framework-Team] Kicking off Plone 4: Release Manager candidate

[Martijn Pieters]

On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:45, Raphael Ritz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> +1 on both of them.

Indeed!

-- 
Martijn Pieters

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default

[Raphael Ritz]

Wichert Akkerman wrote:

I want to propose PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default

Motivation
--
I suspect that by now most of us have realized that the current inline editing
behaviour in Plone 3 is not very practical. It has two main problems:

* it is very easily triggered by default, which causes unwanted edit fields to
  be opened which have to be manually closed. This happens because many,
  if not most, people click accidentily, select text to keep track of
  the reading position, try to select text to copy&paste it or for other
  reasons. Since every single click activates inline edit this happens
  all too often and becomes very frustrating over time.

* as Alexander mentioned in his new UI proposal what you really want is
  a quick option to go to a full edit-mode. Editing a single field is a
  much less common operation than we were expecting.

I can't think of a single Plone deployment I have been involved in for
the last 6 months where we have not disabled inline editing, which
strengthens my believe that the current default is wrong.

Proposal
-

Current Plone releases have a simple toggle to enable or disable inline
editing. I propose that we change the default for newly created sites to
disabled.

Please note that I do not propose to disable inline field validation in
edit screens: that is a very useful and desirable feature.

Wichert.

  

+1 on just changing the default.

Raphael

PS: And while we are at this: personally I do like inline editing
for simple fields like title, description, a date and such.
But where I really HATE it is when it comes to text fields as
they often contain a large body of text that you want to scroll
through, that has links embedded that you want to click etc.

But that's not the matter of this PLIP and it seems like we are
going to see more on this soon anyway.


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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 228: Restore 'Add Item..' menu on all pages

[Raphael Ritz]

Wichert Akkerman wrote:

I guess I'm the first one. I want to propose PLIP 228 for Plone 3.3.

I feel that removing the removal of the 'Add Item' dropdown in many
places in Plone 3 is a regression in behaviour, and makes adding content
a lot more cumbersome. The PLIP has so far only received positive
responses from several people.

The full PLIP can be found here:
http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/228

Wichert.
  


In light of recent discussions I'm

-1 on changing the default but
+1 for a switch in config that allows those who want it
to bring it back.

Raphael


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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 237 for Plone 3.3 - Minor i18n upgrades

[Raphael Ritz]

Hanno Schlichting wrote:

Hi.

I'd like to propose to accept PLIP 237 - Minor i18n upgrades for Plone
3.3. The full text is at http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/237.

Short version:

Ship PloneLanguageTool 2.1 instead of 2.0 and
PlacelessTranslationService 1.5 instead of 1.4 with Plone 3.3.
  


+1

Raphael


Hanno


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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Andreas Zeidler]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Tom Lazar wrote:
i've posted the votes and their motivations at the plips, but not on  
the list.


thanks tom!  and the PLIP pages are fine — they are the canonical  
source of information, at least for 3.x with x <= 3.



andi

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Andreas Zeidler]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Raphael Ritz wrote:

Andreas Zeidler wrote:

On Oct 28, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:

Previously Steve McMahon wrote:
Here are my 3.3 PLIP tallies as of 5:45 2008-10-28 (UTC). These  
include some

unambiguous votes pulled from e-mail messages to the FWT list.


Can this be turned into a result?


i'd say not yet.  i'm aware the deadline has passed, but i'd like  
to allow a little more time for tom and raphael to vote.  and,  
speaking of it, does anybody know how to contact raphael.  i'm not  
sure he's been reading his mail,


I just got back online ...


ok, great!  could you please add your votes to _all_ PLIP pages asap?  http://plone.org/products/plone/releases/3.3 
 is a good starting point for opening tabs... ;)



andi

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[Framework-Team] plans/schedule for 3.3?

[Andreas Zeidler]

hi wichert,

just as a reminder:  do you already have any thoughts regarding the  
schedule for 3.2 and/or 3.3?  like discussed before, we should better  
try to set these up together in the future... ;)


cheers,


andi

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Re: [Framework-Team] Kicking off Plone 4: Release Manager candidate

[Tom Lazar]

On 28.10.2008, at 13:03, Alan Runyan wrote:


+1 to Hanno/Martin being Plone 4 release manager/communicator


same here!

tom




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Re: [Framework-Team] Comments on PLIP 244

[Tom Lazar]

On 28.10.2008, at 11:53, Ricardo Alves wrote:


Hi framework team,

I'm sorry I didnt' comment on the previous discussion about PLIP  
#244, but I wasn't subscribing this list. Anyway, I'd like to  
comment on some of the objections already posted in the PLIP page.


About the usefulness of site-wide portlets, let me give an example:  
you have a static portlet assignment at a folder, and that portlet  
makes sense only in the context of that folder, so you want to block  
it in subfolders but keeping site-wide portlets visible (e.g. like  
news, review list, events, etc). Currently you can't do this, unless  
you manage to setup some weird combination using the other  
categories...


Let me also make it clear that the idea here is not to break with  
existing functionality, neither with any concept. The idea of  
marking categories as "not inherited by subfolders" would be  
extremely useful. Currently, you need to block inheritance in all  
subfolders.


Anyway, I'll be happy to reformulate this PLIP, or even split it  
into smaller ones, after some more discussion.


i think the latter would be a good idea, because IMHO there are some  
good ideas in the plip that are worth implementing in their own right,  
i.e. point #3:


"Improve the portlet management screen to show all portlets that can  
be shown, so users are able to see what's going to be blocked with a  
category."


i'd vote that +1 any time. it would also open the door for blocking  
portlets not per category (the whole category idea is misguided IMHO  
in regard to portlets) but per instance. (that might be a separate  
plip, too)


just my $0.02,

tom





Thanks,

Ricardo

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Tom Lazar]

steve,

here's the tally of my remaining plips:

126 +1
228 +1
236 -1
238 +1
239 +1
240 +1
241 +1
242 -1
243 +1
244 -1
247 +1

i've posted the votes and their motivations at the plips, but not on  
the list.


cheers,

tom


On 28.10.2008, at 11:21, Tom Lazar wrote:

yes, sorry for holding things up. i have seven plips to vote on and  
some office furniture to move, but i'm confident i'll get done  
within the next few hours while still making informed choices ;-)


cheers,

tom

p.s. @steve: i'll send you a tally of my missing votes, so you  
should be able to update the list quite easily then. and thanks for  
the list!


On Oct 28, 2008, at 10:27 AM, Andreas Zeidler wrote:


On Oct 28, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:

Previously Steve McMahon wrote:
Here are my 3.3 PLIP tallies as of 5:45 2008-10-28 (UTC). These  
include some

unambiguous votes pulled from e-mail messages to the FWT list.


Can this be turned into a result?


i'd say not yet.  i'm aware the deadline has passed, but i'd like  
to allow a little more time for tom and raphael to vote.  and,  
speaking of it, does anybody know how to contact raphael.  i'm not  
sure he's been reading his mail, so i'd like to give him a heads up  
via phone.  if anybody's got a phone number, could you please send  
it to me (via private mail)?



What I would like to have is a list of
PLIPs, with for each plip the result (accept/recept) and if the  
result
is a reject a rationale for the rejection. We can then post that  
list to

plone-announce so everyone sees what has been decided and why.


+1

cheers,


andi

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP #187: Working out-of-the-box WebDAV

[Alan Runyan]

Andreas,

Please confirm, the outstanding questions are:

  - Wichert asking, "How are the marshallers configured via GenericSetup"

  This is a great question.

  - Ricardo asking, "how the OS X resource fork issue was resolved."

 We should not focus on how a certain platform works
correctly/incorrectly. We should focus on getting a standard webdav
client to work.  By standard I mean either davlib.py or cadaver.  Not
OSX or Windows Web Folders.  FWIW: Enfold Desktop uses davlib.py.

WRT "The implementation does need to be thoroughly reviewed."  Yes it
will take framework team some time.  So I would suggest allocating
lots of resources to reviewing these changes since they are many.

The PLIP should grow by 2-3 paragraphs explaining at a high level what
changes were made and why they were made.

Does this sound correct?

-- 
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Enfold Systems, Inc.
http://www.enfoldsystems.com/
phone: +1.713.942.2377x111
fax: +1.832.201.8856

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Re: [Framework-Team] Kicking off Plone 4: Release Manager candidate

[Alan Runyan]

+1 to Hanno/Martin being Plone 4 release manager/communicator

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[Framework-Team] Comments on PLIP 244

[Ricardo Alves]

Hi framework team,

I'm sorry I didnt' comment on the previous discussion about PLIP #244, 
but I wasn't subscribing this list. Anyway, I'd like to comment on some 
of the objections already posted in the PLIP page.


About the usefulness of site-wide portlets, let me give an example: you 
have a static portlet assignment at a folder, and that portlet makes 
sense only in the context of that folder, so you want to block it in 
subfolders but keeping site-wide portlets visible (e.g. like news, 
review list, events, etc). Currently you can't do this, unless you 
manage to setup some weird combination using the other categories...


Let me also make it clear that the idea here is not to break with 
existing functionality, neither with any concept. The idea of marking 
categories as "not inherited by subfolders" would be extremely useful. 
Currently, you need to block inheritance in all subfolders.


Anyway, I'll be happy to reformulate this PLIP, or even split it into 
smaller ones, after some more discussion.



Thanks,

Ricardo

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 246: View for rendering events as an iCalendar file

[Raphael Ritz]

Alexander Limi wrote:

Hi Framework Team,

On behalf of Andreas Zeidler, I'd like to offer up the following PLIP 
for your consideration for Plone 3.3:


http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/246

It's a pretty trivial PLIP that adds a new view that is capable of 
rendering events as an iCalendar file, so people can subscribe to 
Plone events in various calendaring software like iCal, Google 
Calendar, Outlook, Sunbird, etc.


The view is added to ATContentTypes, and is currently implemented on a 
branch (and includes tests).


PS: Andreas is fully responsible for the implementation here, I'm only 
helping out by writing a short PLIP for him.




+1

Raphael


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Re: [Framework-Team] Kicking off Plone 4: Release Manager candidate

[Raphael Ritz]

Alexander Limi wrote:

Hi team,

There's been a lot of activity and excitement about Plone 4 after the 
Plone Conference, and I'd like for us to start moving on the 
development for it.


Hanno Schlichting has said that he'd like to be the release manager 
for Plone 4, and I'd like to formally propose him as a candidate for 
this role. Martin Aspeli has indicated that he'd like to help Hanno in 
a "developer communication" role, so Hanno can focus on his job of the 
release manager, and Martin will help communicate what's going on to 
our core developers and add-on product developers.


+1 on both of them.

And while this has not been asked for here:
I'm not available for a further round on the
framework team. :-(
But that's going to be another thread.

Raphael


So, if anyone else is interested in being the release manager for 
Plone 4, let us know!


Also, if the official nomination for the Plone 4 release manager has 
to wait until there is a Framework Team for 4.0, we should:


a) Start identifying these people ASAP.
b) Possibly accept Hanno as an interim release manager until the team 
can make an official recommendation based on the available candidates.





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Re: [Framework-Team] Plip 245?

[Martijn Pieters]

On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 09:33, Danny Bloemendaal
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it correct that http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/245 hasn't been
> officially proposed for 3.3? I can't remember we discussed it though.

Correct; the author only announced it on plone-developers as a PLIP
for a future version of Plone:

  http://markmail.org/message/el63mapo647dh32a

-- 
Martijn Pieters

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Raphael Ritz]

Andreas Zeidler wrote:

On Oct 28, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:

Previously Steve McMahon wrote:
Here are my 3.3 PLIP tallies as of 5:45 2008-10-28 (UTC). These 
include some

unambiguous votes pulled from e-mail messages to the FWT list.


Can this be turned into a result?


i'd say not yet.  i'm aware the deadline has passed, but i'd like to 
allow a little more time for tom and raphael to vote.  and, speaking 
of it, does anybody know how to contact raphael.  i'm not sure he's 
been reading his mail, 


I just got back online ...

Raphael

so i'd like to give him a heads up via phone.  if anybody's got a 
phone number, could you please send it to me (via private mail)?



What I would like to have is a list of
PLIPs, with for each plip the result (accept/recept) and if the result
is a reject a rationale for the rejection. We can then post that list to
plone-announce so everyone sees what has been decided and why.


+1

cheers,


andi

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Tom Lazar]

yes, sorry for holding things up. i have seven plips to vote on and  
some office furniture to move, but i'm confident i'll get done within  
the next few hours while still making informed choices ;-)


cheers,

tom

p.s. @steve: i'll send you a tally of my missing votes, so you should  
be able to update the list quite easily then. and thanks for the list!


On Oct 28, 2008, at 10:27 AM, Andreas Zeidler wrote:


On Oct 28, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:

Previously Steve McMahon wrote:
Here are my 3.3 PLIP tallies as of 5:45 2008-10-28 (UTC). These  
include some

unambiguous votes pulled from e-mail messages to the FWT list.


Can this be turned into a result?


i'd say not yet.  i'm aware the deadline has passed, but i'd like to  
allow a little more time for tom and raphael to vote.  and, speaking  
of it, does anybody know how to contact raphael.  i'm not sure he's  
been reading his mail, so i'd like to give him a heads up via  
phone.  if anybody's got a phone number, could you please send it to  
me (via private mail)?



What I would like to have is a list of
PLIPs, with for each plip the result (accept/recept) and if the  
result
is a reject a rationale for the rejection. We can then post that  
list to

plone-announce so everyone sees what has been decided and why.


+1

cheers,


andi

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[Framework-Team] Re: Kicking off Plone 4: Release Manager candidate

[Hanno Schlichting]

Hi.

Alexander Limi wrote:
> Hanno Schlichting has said that he'd like to be the release manager for
> Plone 4, and I'd like to formally propose him as a candidate for this
> role.

Over the last couple of months, I have been considering to step up for
the release manager job and have gotten positive feedback from various
community members to the idea.

I have not made this public for a long time, as I wanted to get an
understanding about out shared community vision for what Plone 4 should
actually be, before stepping up as a manager for it.

Culminating in the conference I think I have gotten an understanding of
what direction the community wants to go into and I can identify myself
with that direction. I'll try to summarize some broad ideas about this
direction and the general roadmap for Plone 4 from my point of view soon.

> Martin Aspeli has indicated that he'd like to help Hanno in a 
> "developer communication" role, so Hanno can focus on his job of the
> release manager, and Martin will help communicate what's going on to
> our core developers and add-on product developers.

I asked Martin to help in the communication effort, as I know my German
communication-style can easily be misunderstood by some people, who
don't know me in person ;) Giving Martin an official title should make
his role unambigous and let him do, what he is so good at, with an
official blessing :)

> So, if anyone else is interested in being the release manager for Plone
> 4, let us know!

Please do step up, if you want to take on this role. I don't have an
exclusive right of any kind to get the job.

> Also, if the official nomination for the Plone 4 release manager has to
> wait until there is a Framework Team for 4.0, we should:
> 
> a) Start identifying these people ASAP.
> b) Possibly accept Hanno as an interim release manager until the team
> can make an official recommendation based on the available candidates.

As we agreed in Washington to give the framework team the role of
finding and suggesting the release manager to the foundation board, we
cannot make a final decision about it, as long as we don't have a new team.

I'd be happy to serve as an interim manager and renew my application to
the new framework team once it is in place.

Hanno


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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default

[Tom Lazar]

my users first go 'oh cool!' when i show them the new feature and  
then, as time passes, ca. 50% find the default behavior more annoying  
than beneficial. the rest doesn't seem to care much either way.


so, IMHO the current state is a usability bug for many folks and  
remedying it would help *them* while the others would only miss a  
feature which they could then activate. i.e. the current state does  
more harm than the scenario the plip proposes.


i'm therefor also +1 on this.


cheers,

tom

On Oct 26, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Martijn Pieters wrote:

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 22:15, Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

I want to propose PLIP 238: Disable inline editing by default


Although we have a concensus to not remove, change or move major
pieces of the UI, the inline editing feature is currently so confusing
that I certainly feel this is an exception. +1 on this proposal.

--
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[Framework-Team] Re: PLIP 234: Standardizing our use of INavigationRoot

[Raphael Ritz]

Andreas Zeidler wrote:

hi team,

afaict PLIP 234[1] was never proposed to the framework team list.  
technically we require this in order to consider a PLIP, or at least 
we repeatedly asked PLIP authors to announce their PLIPs here so we're 
aware of them.  seeing that this particular PLIP has already received 
two votes[3] — probably because wichert (i reckon) has included in in 
the list for 3.3[2] — and since it's already been proposed in august, 
i suppose we want to be friendly and make an exception here.  right? :)


that means, however, that we'll need to collect the missing votes 
asap, i.e. from raphael and tom.  so please try to cast them asap!


+1 from me on the updated version after having seen Calvin's
response to previous critique.

Raphael




cheers,


andi

[1] http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/234
[2] http://plone.org/products/plone/releases/3.3
[3] actually there are three now including mine

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Re: [Framework-Team] Plip 245?

[Andreas Zeidler]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Danny Bloemendaal wrote:
Is it correct that http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/245  
hasn't been officially proposed for 3.3? I can't remember we  
discussed it though.


afaict (scanning the archives) it's never been proposed to the  
framework team list, which is required and has been asked for several  
times.  so imho, we cannot consider it this time, unfortunately.   
that's just my personal view, though — not official word from the team  
(for now).



andi

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Andreas Zeidler]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:

Previously Steve McMahon wrote:
Here are my 3.3 PLIP tallies as of 5:45 2008-10-28 (UTC). These  
include some

unambiguous votes pulled from e-mail messages to the FWT list.


Can this be turned into a result?


i'd say not yet.  i'm aware the deadline has passed, but i'd like to  
allow a little more time for tom and raphael to vote.  and, speaking  
of it, does anybody know how to contact raphael.  i'm not sure he's  
been reading his mail, so i'd like to give him a heads up via phone.   
if anybody's got a phone number, could you please send it to me (via  
private mail)?



What I would like to have is a list of
PLIPs, with for each plip the result (accept/recept) and if the result
is a reject a rationale for the rejection. We can then post that  
list to

plone-announce so everyone sees what has been decided and why.


+1

cheers,


andi

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Andreas Zeidler]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 4:40 AM, Steve McMahon wrote:

Attached is the table with votes in PDF.


thank you.


 * The votes on this were qualified based on implementation.


just for the record, i think these can be turned into +1's after  
calvin's reply[*]



andi

[*] http://lists.plone.org/pipermail/framework-team/2008-October/002298.html

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP #234: Standardizing our use of INavigationRoot

[Andreas Zeidler]

On Oct 28, 2008, at 4:15 AM, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote:

Hi All,


hi calvin,

I saw all of the comments that came in today and I'd like to  
incorporate the one resounding idea into the PLIP and modify it so  
that we don't change the return value of site_url, but instead  
change things over to use a navigation_root_url attribute instead.


please go ahead! :)

I didn't see any action on this until today so I hope you will still  
consider the PLIP for this round as it is mostly a bug fix for a  
previous feature that never got all the way finished.


well, i think most of us said anyway, that we'd accept it with that  
change, and as this is about the implementation anyway, not having  
changed the description (before the deadline technically passed) is  
not gonna prevent the PLIP from being accepted.  you hardly had a  
chance to react with most of the comments only being made last minute  
anyway... :)


so yes, please update the page to reflect the current intentions and  
thanks for the notice.


cheers,


andi

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[Framework-Team] Plip 245?

[Danny Bloemendaal]

Is it correct that http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/245 hasn't  
been officially proposed for 3.3? I can't remember we discussed it  
though.


Danny

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Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP Tallies

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Steve McMahon wrote:
> Here are my 3.3 PLIP tallies as of 5:45 2008-10-28 (UTC). These include some
> unambiguous votes pulled from e-mail messages to the FWT list.

Can this be turned into a result? What I would like to have is a list of
PLIPs, with for each plip the result (accept/recept) and if the result
is a reject a rationale for the rejection. We can then post that list to
plone-announce so everyone sees what has been decided and why.

Wichert.

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http://www.wiggy.net/   It is hard to make things simple.

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Re: [Framework-Team] Kicking off Plone 4: Release Manager candidate

[Danny Bloemendaal]

On 26 okt 2008, at 22:42, Alexander Limi wrote:


Hi team,

There's been a lot of activity and excitement about Plone 4 after the
Plone Conference, and I'd like for us to start moving on the  
development

for it.

Hanno Schlichting has said that he'd like to be the release manager  
for

Plone 4, and I'd like to formally propose him as a candidate for this
role. Martin Aspeli has indicated that he'd like to help Hanno in a
"developer communication" role, so Hanno can focus on his job of the
release manager, and Martin will help communicate what's going on to  
our

core developers and add-on product developers.


+1+1. Excellent idea. I'm sure that Hanno can do the job (and Martin  
of course).


Danny

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