Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
Thanks, Mark! Really great stuff. Sorry I didn't thank you earlier (found these messages in my spam). Oy. Well thanks again. Hope all's well Jared On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Mark Toscano fiddy...@yahoo.com wrote: Jared and all - Most sound mixers will *not* take this into consideration, as making a 16mm optical track these days is fairly uncommon from the point of view of pretty much all professional sound folks. It tends to be something that only the old school film sound mixers and archivally oriented sound folks will even think about. What the sound house shooting your optical is referring to is the EQ'ing of your final sound in a manner that will help compensate for the loss of high and low end in your audio when it goes to optical. (It's usually called Academy pre-emphasis, and the 'Academy' part refers to the Academy curve, which was a standard set in 1938 by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to help optimize sound for mono optical theatrical playback.) You can EQ your track to emphasize the compromised high/low end, which will result in a better sounding optical. Otherwise, the optical can sound a little squashed or muffled, though it depends on the nature of the sound content. If your track is already lo-fi, and intended to sound lo-fi, I wouldn't worry about it. This said, there's no standard formula for EQ'ing for optical compensation. In restoration projects (and some of my own films), I create an optical-ready version with John Polito at Audio Mechanics, and he tailors it beautifully each time to the track and its quality/content. And the tracks always sound excellent as a result. All the best, Mark Toscano On Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca wrote: Ok I'm not a sound guy but I think this is just an audio filter used to improve the signal to noise ratio. Did you have a final sound mix completed on the sound track for the film? I think your sound designer/final mixer would have taken this into account but you should check. I create my own sound designs for my films but then have a professional sound tech do the final sound mix and prep it for optical print. Hope this helps some! Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. -- From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:46:44 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Thanks for the quick reply. It's 16mm. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.cawrote: I have had a number of optical tracks created over the years and have never had the lab (Skylight Studios in Toronto) make this request. Is it a 16mm mono track or 35mm? Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. -- From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:21 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Hello, all, I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks! Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https
[Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
Hello, all, I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks! Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
I have had a number of optical tracks created over the years and have never had the lab (Skylight Studios in Toronto) make this request. Is it a 16mm mono track or 35mm? Roger D. WilsonFilm Scientist613 324 - 7504rogerdwilson@sympatico.cahttp://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:21 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Hello, all,I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks!Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
Thanks for the quick reply. It's 16mm. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.cawrote: I have had a number of optical tracks created over the years and have never had the lab (Skylight Studios in Toronto) make this request. Is it a 16mm mono track or 35mm? Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. -- From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:21 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Hello, all, I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks! Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
Ok I'm not a sound guy but I think this is just an audio filter used to improve the signal to noise ratio. Did you have a final sound mix completed on the sound track for the film? I think your sound designer/final mixer would have taken this into account but you should check. I create my own sound designs for my films but then have a professional sound tech do the final sound mix and prep it for optical print. Hope this helps some! Roger D. WilsonFilm Scientist613 324 - 7504rogerdwilson@sympatico.cahttp://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:46:44 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Thanks for the quick reply. It's 16mm. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca wrote: I have had a number of optical tracks created over the years and have never had the lab (Skylight Studios in Toronto) make this request. Is it a 16mm mono track or 35mm? Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:21 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Hello, all,I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks!Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
Hi again Jared, Have a look at this link, it talks about prepping audio for 16mm mono track and creating optical tracks. http://www.sfu.ca/~gotfrit/ZAP_Sept.3_99/f/fsnd_lect_16mm_mix.html Roger D. WilsonFilm Scientist613 324 - 7504rogerdwilson@sympatico.cahttp://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:21 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Hello, all,I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks!Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
Basically, an Academy pre-empahsis filter would just be applying an EQ setting to your sound file so that it would be designed to work in conjunction with a theater's standard EQ'ing. There was a standard Academy Curve that was utilized to try and create a standard for mono, and it was replaced with the use of an ISO X-Curve for stereo, which also had variances in the formula based on room size. Each of these rolls off the high and low ends of the spectrum, effectively accounting for the longer reverb of bass, and the hiss inherent in an optical soundtrack. All of this is to say that it doesn't need to be expensive, and you could effectively copy the older Academy Curve for your mono soundtrack through the use of EQ that mimics its shape. Now, as for how good your file would sound once it becomes an optical soundtrack is a little more of an art than just applying a pre-set, but if there's not a wealth of subtlety in the shape of your sounds, or a lot of high end (over 4K) or low end (under 100hz), you should get acceptable results. See here for a little history and explanation: THE X CURVE Double-Head Screenings | Music of Sound THE X CURVE Double-Head Screenings |... The name sounds like some magic preset, and in a way it is, but I’m not sure if magic is quite the right description. View on www.musicofsound.c... Preview by Yahoo -Jason Halprin On Friday, April 25, 2014 3:27 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca wrote: Hi again Jared, Have a look at this link, it talks about prepping audio for 16mm mono track and creating optical tracks. http://www.sfu.ca/~gotfrit/ZAP_Sept.3_99/f/fsnd_lect_16mm_mix.html Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:21 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Hello, all, I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks! Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
Jared and all - Most sound mixers will *not* take this into consideration, as making a 16mm optical track these days is fairly uncommon from the point of view of pretty much all professional sound folks. It tends to be something that only the old school film sound mixers and archivally oriented sound folks will even think about. What the sound house shooting your optical is referring to is the EQ'ing of your final sound in a manner that will help compensate for the loss of high and low end in your audio when it goes to optical. (It's usually called Academy pre-emphasis, and the 'Academy' part refers to the Academy curve, which was a standard set in 1938 by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to help optimize sound for mono optical theatrical playback.) You can EQ your track to emphasize the compromised high/low end, which will result in a better sounding optical. Otherwise, the optical can sound a little squashed or muffled, though it depends on the nature of the sound content. If your track is already lo-fi, and intended to sound lo-fi, I wouldn't worry about it. This said, there's no standard formula for EQ'ing for optical compensation. In restoration projects (and some of my own films), I create an optical-ready version with John Polito at Audio Mechanics, and he tailors it beautifully each time to the track and its quality/content. And the tracks always sound excellent as a result. All the best, Mark Toscano On Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca wrote: Ok I'm not a sound guy but I think this is just an audio filter used to improve the signal to noise ratio. Did you have a final sound mix completed on the sound track for the film? I think your sound designer/final mixer would have taken this into account but you should check. I create my own sound designs for my films but then have a professional sound tech do the final sound mix and prep it for optical print. Hope this helps some! Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:46:44 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Thanks for the quick reply. It's 16mm. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Roger Wilson rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca wrote: I have had a number of optical tracks created over the years and have never had the lab (Skylight Studios in Toronto) make this request. Is it a 16mm mono track or 35mm? Roger D. Wilson Film Scientist 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. From: jaredphutchin...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:21 -0500 To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter Hello, all, I am almost ready to send out for an optical track for my first sync-sound print. I gave a call to the lab which photographs for optical tracks and I was told that my sound needed to be treated with an academy pre-emphasis filter. I was wondering if this (possibly expensive?) stage is necessary for my film sound. The soundtrack to my short is pretty primitive-sounding and not reliant on great fidelity. Thanks! Jared ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] Optical Sound - filter
If this is 35mm, it does need pre-emphasis and the lab should do that for you if you ask them. If it's 16mm, there is sort of a pre-emphasis standard but nobody really follows it and lots of folks do aggressive equalization to make things sound good on cheap classroom projectors while others don't. If the lab is good, put your faith in the lab and let them do all the needed pre-processing. If you don't trust the lab, try another lab. --scott ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
