Using any network interface whatsoever

2008-03-28 Thread Shannon Hendrix


From mailing list archives:

I wrote some add-on bits for /etc/rc.network in 4.x that compares  
the link addresses of attached network interfaces to a list of link  
addresses, then sets ifconfig_ifN* variables accordingly before  
rc.network does anything. It provides a means of wiring IP addresses  
to physical ports in a way that gets around the problem of probe  
order. If there's interest, I'll get to work on an rcNG version.


I would be interested in seeing this.

I build custom machines for a company I work for, and one of our  
requirements is the ability to number the network ports.


End users configure our software based on which port they use, so we  
need steady numbering of the ports, even when one customer machine  
might have different cards and number of cards.


We basically want the order to be:

0-N motherboard ports
N+1 - M card ports

It sounds like your script might work, given the apparent absence of  
geographic mapping in most current systems.


Thanks for any help.

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Re: FreeBSD and Athlon Processors

2001-09-01 Thread Charles Shannon Hendrix

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 08:33:36PM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote:

 Well, since it didn't, I might as well explain the problem here too.
 There are at least two major problems with VIA chips:

[data curruption on VIA KT133/133A systems by pushing PCI and memory bus]

Are you sure about that?

I've pushed systems like that _very_ hard and not seen any problems,
with Linux, NetBSD, or FreeBSD.

The only trouble I have is IDE bus resets with CD-ROM drives, especially
in FreeBSD. Since the same thing happens with a lot of IDE systems, I
generally blame IDE; it's a broken-by-design interface in the first
place.

If this is really true, I would think it should be fairly easy to prove
it.

Now, go back in time about 2 years, and I wouldn't doubt it, because
there were problems with the first VIA KT chipsets, and even the AMD
architecture in general. Everything I've read suggests those problems
have been fixed.

If not, then it should be fairly easy to demonstrate this. I'm willing
to donate time and a system to this since I'd really like to know.
In fact, if this _really is_ true, then it would be a good idea for
a substantial number of people to try and verify it: the VIA based
motherboards for AMD are some of the best out there, as PC motherboards
go anyway.

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Re: Whitespace at end of line

2001-07-16 Thread Charles Shannon Hendrix

On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 12:31:02PM -0700, David O'Brien wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 09:42:22AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote:
  Wilko Bulte wrote:
   Maybe I'm just plain dim today (I will add a beer to rectify this
   situation at first convenience..) but what is so bad about some trailing
   whitespace that a massive commit-a-thlon is called for?
   
   just wondering,
   Wilko
  
  You use emacs, don't you?
 
 What does vi vs. emacs have to do with it?

The beer.


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Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral

2001-07-06 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 07:59:12PM -0400, Sergey Babkin wrote:

 If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we
 can just change the license for the CD images to not for resale
 unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ?

I don't think this is a good idea. The foundation can give a certain CD
vendor official status without limiting the rest. This is how things
were in the past, and it seemed OK to me.

For example, I occasionally bought the offical CD set from whoever
was selling it. I could get it much cheaper elsewhere, but wanted to
contribute money from time to time to help the project and the vendors
who supported it. However, I didn't want to pay that much for CDs of the
minor updates, so I usually got those from Cheap Bytes, or got a friend
with fast network access to get it for me. As a FreeBSD user, I found
this a useful way of doing business.

Will a company like Cheap Bytes really do that much damage to the
official vendor? 

The only thing I'm concerned with _as_a_user_, is that anyone who
distributes CDs uses what the core team supports as being FreeBSD. I'd
hate to see someone roll their own and call it FreeBSD.

-- 
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language.
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Re: DVD IOCTLs on IDE?

2001-06-25 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 08:12:28PM -0400, David Gilbert wrote:

 ... and can successfully mount a DVD-ROM... they just don't play with
 any of the software I've been able to find.  Most recently, I
 downloaded a copy of another package mentioned on /., but it dies
 looking for libdl.so ... which I assume is a stupid linux dependancy,
 so I havn't been chasing it.

It's a dynamic load library, originally from Solaris. It's included in
all dynamically linked NetBSD programs, exists as a library in Linux.

Run man dlopen and see if the man page says at the top if it's a
library or is included in all dynamically linked programs.

I cannot get to my FreeBSD box to check right now.

-- 
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Re: import NetBSD rc system

2001-06-14 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:57:17AM -0400, Robert Withrow wrote:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 :- oops, rc2 isn't started. too bad. 
 
 I think that is exactly the desired design.  The
 RC *system* starts things correctly, but the manager,
 *bypassing* the RC *system* can start and stop things 
 exactly as he wished.  For debugging or whatever.
 
 I'd argue that if you want to start/stop a *subtree*, you
 should ask the RC *system* to do that somehow.

I think also, that you want to be careful about forcing dependencies.
There are times when I start one service even though it has a
dependency. It might be the prerequisite is only needed for a certain
function you can do without. I'm sure you can think of other examples.

So, how about an option to the rc.d scripts to ignore the dependencies
for those times when you don't want them?

Also, NetBSD doesn't seem to formalize chaining to /usr/pkg/etc/rc.d or
/usr/local/etc/rc.d, unless I missed that.

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Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE

2001-05-25 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:19:44PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote:

   The current mood (which I agree with) is to make softupdates the default
 after installation. The problem with the combo of write caching and
 softupdates is that if the power actually goes off the meta-data writes
 that softupdates postpones and are further postponed by the write cache
 will never happen, therefore leaving the file system in a potentially
 unrecoverable state. 

If drives could be counted on to have a synchronous write command, and
the driver interface let you send a flag (cache/no-cache) with each
write, would that be acceptable?

In the XFS miling list at SGI, some were saying that that is what they
wanted for metadata and log writes.

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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-24 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:25:59PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
 On Wed, 23 May 2001, Shannon wrote:
  On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:54:40PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote:
 
   1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write
  caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled
  by default ;)
 
  You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache.
 
  The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code.
 
 1) IIRC they were talking about hw.ata.wc

In a subthread, yeah. I think though, the overall issue is the caching
ext2 does that ufs does not. I'm not even sure that soft updates is
quite the same thing. I think the soft-updates paper mentions that it
shouldn't increase risk, while a lot of people feel like ext2 is very
risky.

I never really notice a big difference when I turn on write caching
with my system (on the hard drive). It's been awhile since I did any
benchmarks though, since I no longer run IDE drives on most systems. You
can control the cache on them too with the right scsi tools, but I've
not really messed with it.





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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-24 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 05:00:44PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Linux has lots of little kludges to make it appear faster on some 
  benchmarks,
but from a networking standpoint it cant handle significant network 
 loads.
   
   Are you sure this is still true?  The 2.4.x series kernel was supposed to
   have significant networking improvements over the previous kernels.
 
 I dont know, but I doubt it. 

There were significant network and memory improvements in the 2.4
release. There were also some improvements that will have to wait for
the next release, but overall it is much improved.

FreeBSD 4.3 is much improved over 2.x and 3.x, so I'm not sure why that
would be considered unusual or surprising.

The memory system in Linux is still set up by default to give more speed
at the expense of smooth load handling.  It seems better, but you have
to go into /proc and tune things to get better load handling.

 the problem isnt the networking preformance, its the inability of the
 memory system and the ethernet drivers to handle overloads properly.
 They are modeled in a way that fails in practice.

The way I understood it was certain drivers were more affected by this
than others. Some were just fine, and handled very high loads. Another
problem was multiple ethernet cards, but I forgot what caused that. A
lot of that was addressed in the 2.4 release, and it seems to have made
a lot of people happier.

I can't test the difference because I have nothing but 10mbit ethernet.
However, the 2.4 kernel is definitely faster in my day-to-day work,
and has allowed me to delay a complete move to FreeBSD 4.x on my
workstation. It was that much of a step forward. Now I can wait until I
get proper 3D support for my nVidia graphics card.


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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-24 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:34:26PM +, Terry Lambert wrote:
 ]  1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write
 ] caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled
 ] by default ;)
 ] 
 ] You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache.
 ] 
 ] The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code.
 
 No.  The issue here is the write cache on the drive.
 FreeBSD with soft updates will operate within 4% of the top memory
 bandwidth; see the Ganger/Patt paper on the technology.

I have a file, CSE-TR-254-95.ps, that I think is probably the paper
you are talking about. The title is Soft Updates: A Solution to the
Metadata Update Problem in File Systems. The link on Ganger's page was
dead, but I'm sure this is the one you mean.

Nowhere do they support the idea that soft udpates can approach a
system's memory bandwidth.

What they did say was that in _one_ case, creating and then immediately
deleting a directory entry, you are operating at processor/memory
speeds. They said soft updates in that case were 6 times faster than the
conventional system. That's not even close to the memory bandwidth of
the 486 system they were using, so they had to mean the filesystem code
in that test was able to run without waiting on I/O.

In the more general cases, their findings were more than a factor of
two compared to synchronous write ufs.

I _wish_ my workstation was able to write metadata at nearly 1GB/s all
the time... :)

-- 
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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-23 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 06:53:37AM -0300, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:

  I cannot verify that with my drive, but my largest is 18GB so maybe
  the difference is not as pronounced as on some newer drives like those
  (currently) monster 70GB drives.
 
 It should be measurable.

Actually, I edited too much.  I have seen a difference, but it was too small
to care abot on my system.  These are 7200rpm 18GB drives too.

The other variances in filesystem performance seem to overshadow the
difference.

The only thing I ever did to pick up some speed was to move some data
on a raw device to the faster tracks. I was streaming it in so the
speedup was good. I also picked up some performance on one Linux system
by putting swap in the faster tracks. But for the most part, I've never
been able to tell.

I have read that on the 40-80GB drives, it's very noticeable. In fact,
the IBM Ultrastars are supposed to be faster than their electronics can
handle on the very outer tracks.

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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-23 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:03:37AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote:

 The scary thing is that it was the attached harddrive that lost all of the
 files.  The situitation is this:
[snip]

Sorry to hear that, but like I said, it isn't typical. ext2 in it's
early days, an ext before that were really bad. But I have few problems
with it these days. I've lost more ufs filesystems than I have ext2, but
I don't assume my results are typical: I know ufs is better. However,
ext2's problems are grossly exaggerated. 

 It's entirely possible that there is something I could have done to
 prevent fsck from clearing out the filesystem, but it certainly isn't
 obvious from the manual, and I've never seen a FreeBSD system do that.

Nothing much you can do unless you happen to know ext2 inside and out,
and fix it manually.

It's not normal for ext2 to die like that, and be unable to recover. 

Over the years I have had more bizarre, inexplicable OS problems on
Intel PCs than any other.

 Also, for anybody who says the pull the power test isn't realistic, I can
 assure you that power failures DO happen (probably less in your area than

My point was that yanking power only tests one aspect of the filesystem.
Chosing one based on passing or not passing that test isn't a good idea.

 mine (I hope!)) and not planning for them only brings disaster later when
 you have a room with 1000 servers lose power.

Well, a UPS system is as important in any system you care about as the
computers and operating systems. If you run 1000 servers and they can
lose power, you're on borrowed time anyway.

Where I live, the power gets worse every year. I lost quite a few ext
filesystems, but only a couple of ufs and ext2 filesystems. Then I
bought a 1920VA UPS and it's no longer an issue. I just found it easier
to not lose power than to worry about which filesystem recovers from it
better.

-- 
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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-22 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:49:21PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote:

 6 files took ~15 minutes to create as is.  I'm going to have to wait 
 until tonight to run larger sets.  2.2.16 is what we have here.  
 I'm still waiting to see how much faster ReiserFS is.

I'm willing to overnight your test if you want. Do you have it packaged
up to send? It would be interesting just to get numbers from a Linux
system with a modern kernel. 2.4.1 gave me enough of a speed boost to
put off another FreeBSD install until I fix some problems there.

I cannot test FreeBSD with SCSI right now so my system will be an
inequal set of results.

I would offer to test NetBSD as well, but I suppose no one would be
interested in that.

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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-22 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:31:34AM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote:

 Er, I don't think ReiserFS is in the Linux kernel yet, although it is
 the default filesystem on some distros apparently.  

ReiserFS, on my system anyway, started just losing files. I'd log in and
would notice some mp3 files or source code was just gone. No heavy load,
and no crashes. Nope, not for me. I think they'll get it in time if the
basic design isn't flawed, but things like an fs just take a lot of time
to debug and come to trust.

There are already some very good journaling systems, and it would seem
better to get them ported, and leave things like ReiserFS a research
project until it proves itself.

 That said, it would be hard to be much worse than Ext2fs with write cacheing
 enabled (default!) in the event of power failure.

Point taken, but the yank power, see who survives test is illogical
and dangerous thinking. 

Besides, my drives have megabytes of write-cache that I cannot disable.
Most are large enough to cause problems for most any fs if they crash
at just the right moment. From what I have read, a lot of drives really
ignore commands to turn it off or do synchronous writes.

Both ext2 and ufs both handle my chores with little or no trouble. On
some systems, I've actually preferred ufs to the journaled file systems.

 We only have three Linux boxes here (and one is a PC104 with a flash
 disk) and already I've had to reinstall the entire OS once when we had a 
 power glitch.  ext2fsck managed to destroy about 1/3 of the files on the
 system, in a pretty much random manner (the lib and etc were hit hard).  

This is not typical. Also, I have heard the same thing from other people
about flash disks. fs crash, fsck, and a mess afterwards. It would be
nice if you could use ufs and see if the same problem exists.

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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-22 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:03:33PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote:

 Here's the results I got from postmark, which seems to be the closest
 match to the original problem in the entire ports tree. 
 
 Test setup:
 Two machines with the same make and model hardware, one running
 FreeBSD 4.0, the other running RedHat Linux 7.0.
 
 The data:
 
 Hardware:
 Both machines have the same hardware on paper (although it is TWO
 machines,
 YMMV).
 PII-300
 Intel PIIX4 ATA33 controller
 IBM-DHEA-38451 8063MB ata0-master using UDMA33 HD
 
 Note: all variables are left at default unless mentioned.
 
 1 transactions, 500 files.

What did you set size to?  How much memory on the machine?

I tested on a 700MHz Athlon system with 256MB RAM, Adaptec 2940UW
controller, 18GB IBM Ultrastar SCSI drive. You must have really low
memory or something because I know that 1 transactions and 500 files
can't be enough for anything faster than my old Sun SS5.

I hit over 16MB/sec and 5000 transactions per second on my Linux
machine.  On the larger tests, it was disappointing.  I can't
test FreeBSD on SCSI right now, but my NetBSD machine (the 
old Sun SS5 wasn't terrible at least:

Time:
220 seconds total
204 seconds of transactions (49 per second)

Files:
5564 created (25 per second)
Creation alone: 500 files (62 per second)
Mixed with transactions: 5064 files (24 per second)
4999 read (24 per second)
4967 appended (24 per second)
5564 deleted (25 per second)
Deletion alone: 628 files (78 per second)
Mixed with transactions: 4936 files (24 per second)

Data:
32.12 megabytes read (149.52 kilobytes per second)
35.61 megabytes written (165.73 kilobytes per second)

 1 transactions, 6 files
 FreeBSD 4.0 with Softupdates, write cache disabled
 Time:
 1259 seconds total
 495 seconds of transactions (20 per second)

I got about 60 per second right here.

I was actually expecting better results from Linux and NetBSD than I
got, and would expect more from FreeBSD than you got.

I'm going to test FreeBSD tomorrow and Linux again with much larger 
numbers of files and transactions.

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Re: technical comparison

2001-05-22 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:55:09PM -0300, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:

 And just to get things worse... :-) the test must be made on the *same*
 slice. If you configure two different slices, the one on the outer
 tracks will be faster.

I cannot verify that with my drive, but my largest is 18GB so maybe
the difference is not as pronounced as on some newer drives like those
(currently) monster 70GB drives.

A 70GB IBM Ultrastar supposedly can physically outrun the internal
electronics on the faster tracks. One review I read mentioned it as a
problem, though I'm not sure why. 

In any case, I'm not quite that picky, and I would not think that
postmark would benefit as much from being on the faster tracks. It's
doing a lot more complicated things than just streaming data.

-- 
And in billows of might swell the Saxons before her,-- Unite, oh
unite!  Or the billows burst o'er her! -- Downfall of the Gael
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Re: FreeBSD 4.3 crashing with USB hub attached...

2001-05-14 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:35:15AM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote:

   For the second boot I unplugged the USB hub. This time everything was
   fine... I'm sending this mail from the FreeBSD machine's console.
 
  Replying to my own post:
 
  The problem is the Logitech joystick, not the hub itself. Every time I
  boot with the joystick plugged in, FreeBSD 4.3 pukes.
 
 I was about to ask you if it wasn't one of the devices plugged into
 the hub and not the hub itself.  Glad I read the next message. :-)
 
 A friend of mine has a Saitek joystick that when plugged into his
 FreeBSD 4.3 system causes the same problems.  I thought it was just
 another mis-behaved USB device and told him to keep it unplugged.
 He's not likely to use it with FreeBSD anytime soon, anyway.

I'm glad it's a repeatable problem. Should make it easier for the usb
coders to debug. I still have not had time to generate more debugging
information, but hope to get to that this week, soon.

  The joystick is a force-feedback model (Logi Formula Force), but
  is otherwise just your average every day USB joystick.
 
 IIRC, the joystick that my friend has is also force-feedback.
 Coincidence?  I've got a force-feedback USB joypad that I can plug in
 and see if there are any problems.  I haven't tried lately, though
 FreeBSD was happy with it when I tried a few months ago.

I didn't have the same problem with FreeBSD 4.1, and I'm almost certain
it did not occur with 4.2, but I might have had the joystick unplugged
when I was using 4.2.

FF devices probably report more information or do so differently than other
devices.  Some of them also auto-calibrate and things like that which might
either slow things down or maybe they announce their presence on the bus twice
or something.

Did you notice, before the crash, that the kernel had some trouble querying
the offending device?  That happens with me, and then a little while later in
the boot it crashes.

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Re: FreeBSD 4.3 crashing with USB hub attached...

2001-05-12 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 07:54:26PM -0400, Shannon wrote:

 For the second boot I unplugged the USB hub. This time everything was
 fine... I'm sending this mail from the FreeBSD machine's console.

Replying to my own post:

The problem is the Logitech joystick, not the hub itself. Every time I
boot with the joystick plugged in, FreeBSD 4.3 pukes.

I've testing most other things with 4.3 on my hardware, and nothing else
seems amiss. It's just like 4.2 except that no version prior to 4.3
would crash because of (or triggered by rather) a USB device.

The joystick is a force-feedback model (Logi Formula Force), but is
otherwise just your average every day USB joystick.

-- 
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything -- Mark
Twain
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Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux

2000-10-25 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 08:38:43PM -0400, Sergey Babkin wrote:

 By the way, speaking of that, things in FreeBSD tend to be more
 synchronous with docs than in Linux. Also FreeBSD has much better
 backwards compatibility (though alas still not as good as commercial
 systems). In Linux the applications tend to break and require
 recompilation when the kernel is upgraded to the next 
 second-digit version.

Mostly, that is only for system utilities.  Few applications care about the
kernel, and I run plenty of old applications with just a compatbility library
installed, just like I do on FreeBSD.

I dislike the package systems like rpm and debian when they keep me from
running different versions of a library unless I force it.  Some dependencies
just don't make any sense.

The FreeBSD situation is better, but no UNIX is exactly library heaven once
you get away from the basics (C, kernel, POSIX).  Graphics and sound are
still alphabet soup.  Hopefully that will settle down in time.

-- 
"Those who trade liberty for security will have neither -- (??)"
shannon @ w i d o m a k e r . com


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Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux

2000-10-25 Thread Shannon Hendrix

On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 05:31:50PM -0700, FengYue wrote:
 
 On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Frederik Meerwaldt wrote:
 
 -Differences... FreeBSD is a real Unix, while Linux is a ..how should I
 
 Hmmm.  FreeBSD is not a UNIX, rather it's a UNIX alike OS. (Which really
 doesn't matter IMHO)
 
 Don't forget UNIX is a trademark of Open Group.

Don?  :)

Serously, BSD is UNIX.  Wether or not TOG likes that is irrelevant.  The legal
distinction is not the important one.

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SCSI tape speed

2000-09-22 Thread Shannon Hendrix



I'm interested in hearing from anyone who uses DAT drives on a DPT SCSI
controller, preferrably with FreeBSD 4.1 and an Intel system.

I find the speed is very slow, and I know in the past these drives were fine
with FreeBSD, though I can't remember which release now.  With my most recent
install of FreeBSD 4.1, I am lucky to get 3MB/minute on a drive and controller
combination that I know can hit 45MB/min.

Right now, with NetBSD on an old Sparc 5, they still get 20MB/min or better.

No errors, even large restores are perfect, but take many hours to finish.

The controller I have is a DPT-2044W, and it currently has the ROM version DPT
suggested for use with tape drives.  The drives in question are an Archive
Python 4-tape robot and a Seagate Scorpion.  Both are DDS2 drives.

No load on the DPT except for tapes and a CD-ROM burner.

I haven't been able to find much information on this particular setup, and
most tape woes seem error related, or related to another platform.


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